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File: 1446577844762.jpg (97.82 KB, 800x800, 1:1, 1446520270914.jpg)

 No.11811

Daily reminder that anarcho capitalism is an oxymoron

 No.11816

Daily reminder that statements should be backed up with facts or at least explanations if you aren't just a massive faggot.


 No.11819

If you can't own land there's no reason I can't keep pushing you off of what piece of land you're standing on until you're off a cliff- you have no right to be occupying that space that I want to occupy just as much so I'm going to occupy the space you were just occupying until this process pushes you off of a cliff.


 No.11820

>>11819

this is a pretty good reductio tbh

inb4 someone calls me out for samefagging, nice detective skills, I'm not pretending to be someone else


 No.11821

>>11816

Read the pic retard

>>11819

Because they will fight back? in ancap they aren't allowed to fight back because muh NAP

>>11820

No it wasn't


 No.11822

File: 1446585041878.gif (617 B, 208x95, 208:95, a5.gif)

>>11821

It says government has no other end but the preservation of society. If you understood how logic applies, then consider government to be P and Private Property to be Q.

P->Q is a logical statement. "If gocernment exists, it must be used to protect private property." You could make this a "provable" statement.

In standard mathematical logic, though…

Q->P is not logically implied by the above. E.G. "If private property exists, it must be protected by government."

You are using circular reasoning by making an assumption based on a different equation, creating a false tautology. It's a mistake many people make who haven't taken discreet math or logic make, so I won't hokd it against you.


 No.11823

>>11821

>muh NAP

>Implying the NAP is an absolute

>Implying most AnCaps even follow the NAP to the letter


 No.11825

>>11822

But the preservation of property*

Fuck, been arguing too much with nazis lately.


 No.11835

>>11821

>>11821

>Because they will fight back? in ancap they aren't allowed to fight back because muh NAP

THEY WILL FIGHT ME TO PREVENT ME FROM OCCUPYING THE LAND THEY'RE OCCUPYING?

HOLY FUCK THEY'RE TRYING TO START ANOTHER GOVERNMENT

They're fucking hypocrites if they'll fight me to prevent me pushing them off a square foot of land but forbid me to exclude others from many square feet of land.

Either they are justified in using and squatting upon my land, in which case I'm justified in using the land they were just standing on until I've pushed them off a cliff (by body checking and pushing them off) or they have the moral right to exclude me from the land they're using and occupying in which case it would be arbitrary to say I can't exercise that right.


 No.11836

>>11835

If someone says I don't have the right to exclude them from land I claim to own then I'm going to body check and flounder upon them until they say "wait, I change my mind, it's ethical for people to exclude other people from land they were using first"


 No.11837

>>11836

>>11835

You know what, I know commies are really shit at philosophy so I'll make this simple.

Moral principles must apply in all relevantly similar situations. If someone breaks your blue teapot and you claim you're morally permitted to stab them, you can't cry foul when you break someone else's red teapot and they stab you, that's a relevantly similar situation and the principle applies.

For ethical philosophy to be anything more than an infinite and unending collection of emotionally reactionary responses to specific situations, we need principles, principles that apply in all relevantly similar situations (or else that principle is merely an arbitrary particularization.)

If I am not allowed to exclude, with reasonable force, a commie from my backyard, my porch, or my bathroom, the principle we can extract is:

No one individual has the right to exclude other individuals from land that the individual claims to own or be making use of. Logically, this would apply even if the individual was standing on the land. If I can't exclude you from the one acre I'm standing on, I can't exclude you from a 10ft radius around me, I can't exclude you from the land underneath me, and hence you're morally permitted to push me off of it so you can occupy that space you have the equal right to occupy. If you're bigger and stronger this means you would be morally permitted to occupy the space I was occupying continuously, gradually pushing me a great distance until I've fallen from a great height.

It's possible I've made a mistake along the logical path to my conclusion or built a strawman principle which doesn't catch the "nuances" of ebin gommie philosophy xdd in which case offer a refutation or admit the absurdity of your "philosophy."


 No.11842

Property pre-dates humanity. Lots of animals own property - property ownership is what territorialism amounts to. Even non-territorial animals will defend their kill.

A better question is, to what extent do people own property? The answer to that is complicated and interesting. Nowhere near as simple, I'm afraid, as a lazy commie analysis: "all property is theft, QED, class war now".


 No.11844

>>11842

Animals do not have private property, they only property they "possess" is occupational.

>all property is theft

No one says this.


 No.11863

>>11822

It says property not society, the purpose of the state is to protect the property rights of the bourgeoisie, which cannot be done without said state

>>11823

the NAP is the only argument i've heard against ancap resulting in slavery and fascism. So you admit ancap is slavery and fascism.

>>11835

Read a book nigger, the political state doesn't mean violence but the states monopoly of power

>>11842

Private property only exists when exploitation occurs, are you suggesting animals employ each other?

>>11837

>You know what, I know commies are really shit at philosophy so I'll make this simple

Apply yourself retard, /philosophy/ is full of /leftypol/

>Moral principles must apply in all relevantly similar situations. If someone breaks your blue teapot and you claim you're morally permitted to stab them, you can't cry foul when you break someone else's red teapot and they stab you, that's a relevantly similar situation and the principle applies.

Morals are rather spooky m8

>one individual has the right to exclude other individuals from land that the individual claims to own or be making use of. Logically, this would apply even if the individual was standing on the land. If I can't exclude you from the one acre I'm standing on, I can't exclude you from a 10ft radius around me, I can't exclude you from the land underneath me, and hence you're morally permitted to push me off of it so you can occupy that space you have the equal right to occupy. If you're bigger and stronger this means you would be morally permitted to occupy the space I was occupying continuously, gradually pushing me a great distance until I've fallen from a great height.

Without a state you will still get your ass kicked for this retarded nonsense, you can complain all you want but there will be no state.


 No.11868

>>11863

If you can't even into discrete math, I can't expect you to have the knowledge of how logic works, anon. If you actually read and didn't skim like you did, you'd have realized I cirrected my typo. Your base argument was disproved using the implication clause in a logic circuit, E.G. you must provide more evidence to form a tautology.


 No.11931

>>11811

>Taking people's stuff away from them on threat of imprisonment is how you protect property.

>>11821

>in ancap they aren't allowed to fight back because muh NAP

I'm not even a NAPfag and I can point out your manifest retardation here. It's "Non-AGGRESSION", not "Non-Violence". For fuck's sake, there's no conceivable way that nobody's wasted their time trying to explain this to you yet. Defense is not aggression. Aggression is initiatory. The guy who starts the fight is the aggressor. The guy fighting back is just defending himself. Every NAPfag and his dog can explain this basic fucking concept to you.

>>11844

>they only property they "possess" is occupational.

So now there's "occupational" property, too? Gee, if only I had known earlier that I could just keep inventing bullshit categories and false distinctions, maybe I wouldn't have had to actually do something productive with my life.

>>11863

>the purpose of the state is to protect the property rights of the bourgeoisie, which cannot be done without said state

First, if you use the word "bourgeoisie" unironically, you're fucking retarded and I can safely disregard your opinion with regard to just about anything.

Second, even presuming against all sense that government DID protect property rights, that in no way establishes that it is the ONLY way to do so. AnCaps recognize that government is anathema to property, and are in favor of other institutional methods of protecting property.

>the only argument i've heard against

Doesn't mean it's the only one there IS. The other arguments are economic, but clearly economics is voodoo to you.

>Private property only exists when exploitation occurs, are you suggesting animals employ each other?

Have… have you actually never been outside? Have you never witnessed a symbiotic relationship between species? Hell, have you never even seen a dog mark its TERRITORY!? You know; the PROPERTY it claims?

Yes, wild animals claim property, you unfathomably ignorant shitsack.

>Morals are rather spooky m8

Proving his point about you sucking at philosophy.

>Without a state you will still get your ass kicked for this retarded nonsense,

Yet you somehow think that this "retarded nonsense" will be how everyone behaves if we abolish economic interventionism? You're directly and unambiguously contradicting yourself here.

No state, no coercive institution, and anybody trying to act like that kind of shit won't get away with it. The norms are self-enforcing; antisocial behavior is maladaptive.

But you somehow think, knowing this, that even absent a monopolistic institution of violence, anybody who attempts precisely this kind of shittery, or hires somebody else to do the same, will somehow avoid this entire mechanism. Do you think paid thugs won't get the shit kicked out of them on account of their paycheck?

You're just mind-bogglingly incapable of comparing your own propositions to each other. It beggars the imagination to conceive of how you manage to avoid swallowing your own tongue.


 No.11985

>>11931

>nigger detected


 No.11993

>>11844

>Animals do not have private property, they only property they "possess" is occupational.

All possession is a form of occupation, so I don't exactly see what your argument is.


 No.11994

>>11863

>Apply yourself retard, /philosophy/ is full of /leftypol/

And it shows in their economic illiteracy.

>Morals are rather spooky m8

I'm pretty sure even the neostalinist ultramarxist radicals at /philosophy/ would call bullshit on this "argument".

>Without a state you will still get your ass kicked for this retarded nonsense, you can complain all you want but there will be no state.

>B-but that's never going to happen!

This is not how thought experiments work.


 No.12018


 No.12035

>>12018

>no refutation whatsoever

>no reasoning

>one word: kike

Nice, stay jelly.


 No.12050

>>11821

fighting back does not violate the NAP


 No.12087




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