[ home / board list / faq / random / create / bans / search / manage / irc ] [ ]

/liberty/ - Liberty

Non-authoritarian Discussion of Politics, Society, News, and the Human Condition (Fun Allowed)

Catalog

See 8chan's new software in development (discuss) (help out)
Infinity Next update (Jan 4 2016)
Name
Email
Subject
Comment *
File
* = required field[▶ Show post options & limits]
Confused? See the FAQ.
Flag
Embed
(replaces files and can be used instead)
Oekaki
Show oekaki applet
(replaces files and can be used instead)
Options
dicesidesmodifier
Password (For file and post deletion.)

Allowed file types:jpg, jpeg, gif, png, webm, mp4, pdf
Max filesize is 8 MB.
Max image dimensions are 10000 x 10000.
You may upload 5 per post.


A recognized Safe Space for liberty - if you're triggered and you know it, clap your hands!

File: 1452021285982.jpg (1.84 MB, 4445x3254, 4445:3254, cowboy.jpg)

 No.15023

There wasn't a thread about that rancher thing in the news so I started one.

A standoff between locals the federal government and people like you aren't discussing it.

How could that happen?

I don't know much about this issue, and I reckoned you'd be the folks to ask.

 No.15035

Stefan Molyneux has done two videos on this on jewtube


 No.15046

File: 1452055793798.jpg (65.66 KB, 900x565, 180:113, 12400923_543729405790683_3….jpg)

This pic is biased but sums it up nicely.

Younger Libertarians are staying out of it because they're afraid of being labeled racist or evil by the left. Older Libertarians are fully behind the militias.


 No.15048

File: 1452055949656-0.jpg (124.19 KB, 560x420, 4:3, fed-lands.jpg)

File: 1452055949668-1.jpg (51.45 KB, 480x555, 32:37, liberty_bitch_nigga.jpg)

File: 1452055949869-2.jpg (83.15 KB, 600x600, 1:1, heros_terrorists.jpg)

File: 1452055949922-3.jpg (117.02 KB, 822x960, 137:160, black_protestors.jpg)

File: 1452055949922-4.jpg (103.17 KB, 960x749, 960:749, domestic_terrorism_lol.jpg)

>>15046

More or less the right are saying it's a case of double jeopardy and the Hammonds will be arrested if they respond to the protesters in a positive manner. The left is saying they're "just being re-sentenced" and there's nothing illegal/constitutionally breaking about that since they're criminals anyways. They're also throwing a bitch fit because the protesters are white, calling them "domestic terrorists" which is making people laugh at them since they support BLM and other shit.


 No.15055

>>15023

I expect things like this to become common and widespread in a few years.


 No.15059

>>15055

I hope this spreads to yurop.


 No.15061


 No.15062

tbh the reason there is not a post on this is because it would just end up being a long, elaborate "I told you so".


 No.15070

>>15062

this.

kinds glad this happened, tbh.

If the media spins it as them being terrorists - and it ends up hindering their program - I can chill on my sofa with a cup of coffee in my hand, waiting for the accelerated demise of this stupid regime.

If they manage to gain traction, I'll be happy to help. Either way, it's fine.


 No.15076

File: 1452136842336.jpg (127.92 KB, 960x960, 1:1, welfare_queens_I_guess.jpg)

So WAC has decided to weigh in on this situation with pic related. I'll quote them…

"As many already know, the Bundy family is leading an occupation of federal land demanding that authorities "restore the rights to people so they can use the land and resources." [a] Ryan Bundy "called for the 187,000-acre refuge to be shut down and returned to the hands of ranchers." [a] Many may also remember that this same family had a related stand off with federal authorities in Nevada, again over land they used for grazing. What people don't generally know, however, is that these ranchers have actually been the recipients of an entirely unjust, tax-payer funded, subsidy program. We're referring to what's called "grazing rights." As we'll demonstrate below, whether you feel solidarity for or threatened by these armed protestors, the economics lead to one conclusion; these men are akin to welfare queens.

So what exactly are grazing rights? Generally, it's when land that is owned by someone is leased to a rancher so that the rancher can let his livestock graze on it. It does NOT mean the rancher owns the land. The federal government owns a LOT of land out west, but rather than sell it, much of it has been leased to ranchers. "Approximately 229 million acres of federal public lands in the western United States are used for livestock grazing for cattle and sheep." [b]

This might seem benign at first, but unfortunately, these federal programs dramatically undercharge their leaseholders. A 2015 analysis found that "U.S. taxpayers have lost more than $1 billion over the past decade" from this unjust subsidy. [c] "Total federal appropriations for the USFS and BLM grazing programs in fiscal year 2014 were $143.6 million, while grazing receipts were only $18.5 million. That's around a 125 million dollar loss." [b] Matter of fact, the programs have lost "at least $120 million annually since 2002." [b]

Had the recipients of these artificially low prices ACTUALLY paid the going market rate for said land leases, "the program would have made $261 million a year on average rather than operate at a staggering loss. [c] This is what we mean when we say these ranchers are - quite literally - profiting off of the taxpayers. They're allowed to conduct business while taxpayers are losing out on the true value of that land. Unfortunately, the situation is getting worse for taxpayers. For example, back in 1981, the program was charging ranchers 23.79% the free market rate. [b] But by 2013, that figure had dropped down to only 6.72% the market rate. [b] As taxpayers, we should be outraged.

To make matters worse, the Bundy family isn't even paying THAT small amount. "Twenty-one years ago, rancher Cliven Bundy stopped paying his grazing fees." [d] And his theft wasn't a small figure. "After years of attempts at a negotiated settlement over the $1.2 million Bundy owes in fees failed, federal land agents began seizing hundreds of his cattle" since they were technically grazing illegally. [d]

CONCLUSION:

Again, whether one is sympathetic to these men or fearful of them, and whether their claims of righteousness are valid or false, what we DO know, from a pure economics stand point, is that they are beneficiaries of an unjust system that has benefited them at the taxpayer's expense for decades."

———————–

Sources:

[a]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/…/Oregon-farmers-center-grazing-…

[b]

http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/…/CostsAndConsequences_0…

[c]

http://www.commondreams.org/…/study-livestock-grazing-publi…

[d]

http://www.theatlantic.com/…/the-irony-of-cliven-bu…/360587/

Personally I'll agree that they're technically welfare queens (just like how the military are welfare queens), but then the BLM has made them welfare queens in the first place.


 No.15079

I tried to post a thread about it when it started but I couldn't load the index for some reason, so I couldn't post a thread.

>>15046

Are people calling them racist because they think BLM stands for Black Lives Matter, or do they think that it is racist to believe double jeopardy is unjustified? Is it because they already played the racism angle to attack Cliven Bundy and the name is just a dogwhistle for morons?

Then again, I've seen samples from the MSM on this issue and every time they mention it, they try to reframe the protest as "armed occupation" and the reason they're protesting as "demands", so it's pretty clear they're trying to manipulate this issue in favor of the state. I doubt they even mention the double jeopardy angle outside of direct quotes from protestors. Can't really be surprised that people would parrot this misinformation.


 No.15094

>>15076

I think they were happy until they were getting cuts, and when everything was in their favour and they were the ones in benefit. They're revolting now because they find the possibility of support high, and then they're now angry because what happened with others to benefit them is now happening to them.

They're no better than the average guy who cheers for welfare, but then screams when they take his money.




[Return][Go to top][Catalog][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[]
[ home / board list / faq / random / create / bans / search / manage / irc ] [ ]