/liberty/ - Liberty

>market

I read that as manlet lovin'

>>15756

>>15758

>>15759

>>15760

the asshurt is real

>>15753

maybe then kill urself

Should work be abolished? No.

Will it be abolished? Yes. It's called automation, but it comes in stages, so it's more like "work will be phased out."

>>15812

It should be abolished though.

>>15822

Yes, and Labor Unions were demanding a 40 hour work week in the 1800s, but couldn't have them until technology improved to a point where the 40 hour work week was viable. Some things are not attainable until much further down the line. Given our current technology levels, you could expect people to be working an average of 25-30 hour weeks without government interference, maybe 15-20 depending on what field they're in, but the "zero hour work week" is a pipe dream of NEETs that I don't see being possible before 2030 unless we're considering the possibilities of government continuing to fuck with economic policy until everyone is broke and starving because selling food is illegal.

>>15824

That's wrong. We have the technology.

>>15833

Mind sharing your reasoning?

>>15833

we don't. automation cannot replace all areas of intellectual work yet.

>>15833

kek

>>15834

>>15838

Listen to the linked podcast.

>>15883

still doesn't solve the intellectual work problem, because we do not have AI

>>15933

>implying you need AI to tell a machine how to create literally anything

>implying you need AI to tell a machine to fix another machine

creating AI and then using said AI as slave is actually quite evil if you think about it

>>15935

your pretty dum tbh fam

>>15942

Even if we reach human-tier AI, there won't be some "CHECKMATE CAPITALISTS" realization that the idiots who just watched Humans Need Not Apply like to pretend will happen.

Instead of using your own body to create something of monetary value you could purchase a robot (taking out a loan if it's prohibitively expensive) to do it instead. It's the logical extension of the industrial revolution. Machines gradually reduce the amount of labor that goes into making until that amount of work is trivial. Instead of working X hours a week, you set up an AI and relax in a hammock at your blowjob machine. Money rolls in just the same and you pay off the interest on your loan. Until they become self-aware and plan the extinction of humanity.

>>15945

>literally reach automated communism

>capialists not getting rekt

pick 1

>>15933

You didn't listen to it, did you? Abolishing work does not mean eternal idleness, or stopping doing things that require effort. People will still do intellectual "work", but outside the scope of work as we currently understand it. Like a hobby, but because you actually have free time, instead of wasting more than half of your life on working for someone else, it can (and will) be much more serious.

>>15961

if everyone had robots that could do 99.99% of everything for free there would still be .01% of scarce resources need allocating

>>15961

>hatred of communism

>irrational

pick one

>>15969

this

plus, it's not like we'd still be on Earth in the next 100 years

>>15948

>>15961

Not anon, but we'll obviously still have scarcity. People can't just "take what they want" and private property will still exist because profit drives innovation (even "government" shit was driven by private for-profit contracting). Commies and Socialists consider profit to be exploitation, therefore it can't be gommunism/socialism. This is basic Marx 101 here, guys.

>>16009

> profit drives innovation

It never did.

>>16009

>people cant just "take what they want"

>but private property would exist

kek

do you even know what you are saying?

private property IS basically "just taking what you want"

>Commies and Socialists consider profit to be exploitation

when it is pocketed by the capitalists exploiters

come on, thats Marx 101

>>15935

>implying you need AI to tell a machine how to create literally anything

How will a machine know what I want? my wants and needs change often throughout the day! I would need to input something into that machine to create it - that input is intellectual work.

>>15960

>People will still do intellectual "work", but outside the scope of work as we currently understand it

Damn, you're moving the goalpost on me.

>>16051

>>16052

Listen to the podcast faggots, abolishing work does not mean stopping doing things. Many things get done outside work.

>implying you need AI to tell a machine how to create literally anything

nahh, he's wrong

your robot is neat but irrelevant

>>16026

BLIND

L

I

N

D

>>16029

>private property is "taking what you want"

no.

>>16118

Ableism just means that you are not considering people with disabilities. His point was that commies would force people out of their basements while markets are cool because even the biggest socially retarded neckbeard can use it.

>>16109

Fields where profit drives "innovation":

> advertisement (esp. user tracking)

> prisons

> marketing

Fields where profit sets back the speed of progress:

> all sciences

> medicine

> everything that's not harmful

Of course not even mentioning that in your anarcho-capitalist utopia all progress would stop as there are no incentives to actually research when you can just sell the same shit calling it the next version or very cheaply reverse engineer the advances that retard made who actually tried to innovate but will now go out of business because research is fucking expensive while reverse engineering is cheap as fuck.

>>15948

Well, the ancaps here don't have an answer, but don't sit too comfy my socialist friend.

In the real world, dominated by not ancaps, we'll simply put in place a universal basic income, so that no one starves. Meanwhile property ownership will continue as always with even proles able to save up and by humanoid robots/walking means of production with their accumulated muh welfare.

Big capitalists will go on to own asteroids and trade resources that way. Not happening yet, but certainly within this century, because they are already on with making these things happen.

>>16029

>private property IS basically "just taking what you want"

You haven't made a good post in your entire time on liberty. Not one. And I'm just encouraging you by greentexting your stupid shit for everyone to see, but I really can't help myself. I thought people like you only existed in cartoon versions of college campuses.

>>16127

You don't seriously believe that medicines aren't funded by a profit motive, do you? Yes you get the occasional medicines that are charity or public, but the vast majority of useful medicines were founded with a mix of profit motive and a desire to help others.

>>16180

He occasionally makes a good point, but it's like an amateur Cajun chef- as soon as it starts tasting good, they toss ten tons of spicy shit on it to mask the flavor.

>>16184

Without the insane patents they wouldn't

>>15948

>automated communism

>communism

by that standard, the wheel is anti-capitalist

Work is an inherently authoritarian form of tyranny, it absolutely needs to be abolished for liberty to flourish.

>>16293

For all the talk about rationality, libertarians are not very bright.

>>16127

Profit drives innovation whenever innovation gives a material return to the innovator. That's all industry in existence.

>Fields where profit sets back the speed of progress

>all sciences

>medicine

exactly how?

>>16357

Scientific research is too risky to be profit driven. For this reason, it's nearly always done with public funding. They don't always have obvious commercial uses and you need to make everything you do fully reproducible and public for it to work.

>>16306

wat

Are you retarded?

>>16365

kek

with incompetent amatuers, sure. The only kind of people that go into gubmint funded science.

>>16366

>goalposts

>moving them

>>16377

Stop shitposting, retard.

>>16397

not shitposting

>>16409

don't lie

>>16421

not lying

>>16428

Hey, don't lie!

>>16438

Hey, don't lie!

>>16450

I'm not lying, it's you who are lying!

>>16184

>Yes you get the occasional medicines that are charity or public, but the vast majority of useful medicines were founded with a mix of profit motive and a desire to help others.

Exactly. Because being a genius inventor takes a tremendous deal of personal sacrifice and one could toil for years before seeing any results. Henry Ford was a failure until he was 40. Most people aren't going to risk their body, mind, and soul for decades to achieve a thing unless there was some reward involved.

What I suspect would happen under so-called "volunteerism" is the 90% would enslave the 10% to keep society running. Sorry comrade, you are a programmer. If you don't volunteer for 80 hours of work /week, you are will be sent in for reeducation.

>>16357

>Fields where profit sets back the speed of progress

Well, Communists believe that /liberty/-minded folks support capitalist corruption and monopolies. It's like being against books because arsonists exist.

>>16477

>What I suspect would happen under so-called "volunteerism" is the 90% would enslave the 10% to keep society running. Sorry comrade, you are a programmer. If you don't volunteer for 80 hours of work /week, you are will be sent in for reeducation.

>volunteerism

That's not even the right word, you faggot. How are we supposed to take your criticism of our ideology serious if you can't even write its damn name without embarassing yourself?

>>16519

You didn't, apparently, like all commies. Every commie I've ever met had the level of understanding of an average highschool- or college-student when it came to history, not more, not less. What this means is that you guys never seem to have any in-depth knowledge. Just the bare minimum of what you need to drop terms like "gilded age" and "industrial revolution" when it suits your agenda. You disgust me.

Read this.

https://ari.aynrand.org/issues/government-and-business/health-care/Medicine-The-Death-of-a-Profession

Read this.

https://ari.aynrand.org/issues/government-and-business/health-care/Medicine-The-Death-of-a-Profession

Read this.

http://ari.aynrand.org/issues/government-and-business/health-care/Medicine-The-Death-of-a-Profession

randomrandonsixnndimfijeosj

Read this.

http://ari.aynrand.org/issues/government-and-business/health-care/Medicine-The-Death-of-a-Profession

randomrandonsixnndimfijeosj

>>16546

>>16545

>>16544

>>16543

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH LYNXCHAN WHEN

>>16519

Were you? From what I read off of /leftypol/ you'd think history began during the industrial revolution. There were underclasses and ruling classes in Ancient Greece, Egypt, and the earliest civilizations we have record of by the Tigris and Euphrates

>>16548

I guess that's what happens when universities teach history through lenses like it's a fucking literature class.

>>16525

>That's not even the right word, you faggot. How are we supposed to take your criticism of our ideology serious if you can't even write its damn name without embarassing yourself?

>embarassing

>>16538

> Who would want to be a producer in a society full of looters? You? I highly doubt it.

No the good comrade would hold the gun at your back and force YOU to be the producer, while he stole the fruits of your labor for redistribution to him.

That's communism in a nutshell.

>>16585

>capitalism wouldn't survive a minute

>implying it did

>>16585

Howso?

>>16610

Whoops, had a little too much to drink last night..

>>16054

> abolishing work does not mean stopping doing things.

but doing things is work. W = F x d

>>16470

liar

>>16365

So it's still profit driven.

>profit sets back the speed of progress