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File: 1454960448391.jpg (166.16 KB, 416x416, 1:1, nike_child_labor_big.jpg)

 No.17254

Mass Production requires Mass Consumption and the wages of the workers create demand.

The demand for goods creates jobs.

Great Industrialists. like Ford, knew this. Ford paid he workers in his first factory twice the going rate.

Paying your workers well does cut into profits but it's good for the economy, and that's good for the long term goals of the company.

It's called an "economic multiplier". The well paid workers buys goods and services and that creates other jobs and opportunities for entrepreneurs,

This cycle created America prosperity and power.

The United States is the largest market in the world for pretty much everything.

If you want to sell a product here. Make it here with American union workers.

What?

You say you cannot make the ungodly profits you have become accustomed to if you don't make your overpriced gym shoes with malnourished Asian child labor.

Then I suggest you try to sell your overpriced gym shoes to malnourished Asian children.

The end to "free trade" and government regulated partnership between capital and labor could restore the American standard of living and maintain it.

 No.17256

Comparative advantage, retard.


 No.17258

I've seen this low-grade copypasta on at least 2 other boards.


 No.17274

File: 1455059748676.jpg (272.54 KB, 1600x1200, 4:3, american eagle.jpg)

>>17256

>>17258

Neither one of those responses is an actual counter-argument.

Comparative advantage

The theory of comparative advantage is an economic theory about the work gains from trade for individuals, firms, or nations that arise from differences in their factor endowments or technological progress.

The advantage goes to places with cheap labor, and loose copyright laws not the United States.

and as a Nationalist, I say fuck that shit.

If the rules of the game are hurting us, change the goddamn rules.


 No.17280

>>17274

Fuck it, I'll take the b8.

Actually, the theory of comparative advantage says that even if a nation is superior to yours at producing everything, mutual trade is still beneficial. A third world shithole may produce both cars and cellphones cheaper than the US, but that doesn't mean it can produce both these things in adequate quantities. So what it will do is export cars and import cellphones, if it's better at producing cars than cellphones, even if the US is objectively shit at both.

The US is NOT shit at producing everything, I might add. It's still a powerhouse in the entertainment industry. I'd say that more than half of all big budget movies here in Germany come straight out of the US.


 No.17281

>>17274

You have no power over the rules of comparative advantage. You only have to power to guard people from the global economy. If the costs of business are cheaper elsewhere, foreign investment will go elsewhere. Unless you attempt to punish them, domestic entrepreneurs will also go elsewhere. You can force local consumers to buy domestically, sure, but that means higher costs and consequently higher prices. "Protected" jobs are never free, they are always sustained by the higher consumer prices that all consumers (private and industrial) have to shoulder.

>could restore the American standard of living

I have no reason to believe this will ever come back. Gilded America was built on mass industry, mass production and mass exports. This was made possible by an environment which then couldn't be found elsewhere. Today, globally, people are increasingly fitter, more literate and more professional. Times have changed.

> Mass Production requires Mass Consumption and the wages of the workers create demand.

> The demand for goods creates jobs.

> Great Industrialists. like Ford, knew this. Ford paid he workers in his first factory twice the going rate.

> Paying your workers well does cut into profits but it's good for the economy, and that's good for the long term goals of the company.

I love this! If you don't pay workers whatever exorbitant rate they demand, you're anti-economic growth. Where does it end? If deliberately increasing your expenses is supposed to provide some long term economic return to the industrialist, why stop at labour? Surely, he should spend as much as he can afford if his expense is proportional to his long term profit.

There is also the problem of diminishing marginal returns but you don't even need to go there. Not even the kind of person this pasta was made for is stupid enough not to see through it.


 No.17284

File: 1455118127212.gif (1.5 MB, 342x338, 171:169, WAT.gif)

>>17281

>someone from /pol/ understands economics


 No.17286

>>17284

/pol/ has been co-opted smt


 No.17287

>>17281

You shouldn't fly the Nazi flag if you are going to be against national self sufficiency.


 No.17293

>>17287

When goods don't cross borders, armies will.

high living standards > self-sufficiency


 No.17313

File: 1455248292465.png (84.12 KB, 1000x500, 2:1, oswald mosely tech.png)

>>17293

The United States can have both, in fact American high living standard were built on self-sufficiency.

"Before turning to fascism, Mosley had visited America where he witnessed a higher standard of living linked to a highly developed technology. The secret he found rested on the existence of a large home market protected from the competition of low-waged imports because America was large enough geographically to become self-sufficient in food production and raw materials. Restricted immigration also maintained a shortage of labour that gave the unions more clout to push wages up to a higher standard of living for the workers, thus giving them the purchasing power to buy the goods they produced. The elimination of the need to trade with the rest of the world by being self-sufficient solved most problems."

http://www.oswaldmosley.net/the-political-aims-of-british-union.php


 No.17321

>>17313

>gave the unions more clout to push wages up to a higher standard of living for the workers

The standard of living improved before the unions became important, last I heard.

Other than that, this is pretty much the same thing you were saying in your opening post:

>Muh cheap imports destroy the industry!

Now, they don't, because comparative advantage and also, fuck you. Address these two first:

>>17280

>>17281


 No.17323

>>17313

The high standard of living was linked to :

>high prices for imported goods? wut

>union power to restrict the supply of labour, causing unemployment and even higher prices for goods? wut

Probably not. Probably just a high concentration of capital thru small government pro-growth policies

Low income consumers have around 60 percent higher purchasing power as a result of cheap imports from foreign countries


 No.17428

Enjoy your declining birth rate and ageing population OP.


 No.17440

File: 1455476670804.jpg (65.35 KB, 600x450, 4:3, Ron Paul.jpg)

>>17284

I wish the other people on /pol/ would figure out that getting rid of niggers and Jews doesn't magically make retarded socialist economics work.


 No.17443

>>17440

You're a fool. Have you even read the manifesto for the abolition of interest slavery?


 No.17446

>>17443

Look up time preference faggot

If borrowing money was bad we wouldn't do it. Banning interest will literally never improve your country and is one of the many reasons Islamic countries are shit


 No.17449

File: 1455487383628.png (474.63 KB, 663x427, 663:427, oh shit nigger what are yo….png)

>>17443

>the abolition of interest


 No.17456

>>17313

Those were different times because:

>Europe was in ruins/under threat of communism

>South America/Central were agricultural societies or under threat of communism

>Africa a shit

>Asia was an agricultural society and under threat of communism

Now, if you wanted to build a factory where would you build it? The reason the US was so great compared to the entire world was due to perfect timing and its laissez-faire government compared to the rest of the world.


 No.17459

>>17440

I wish National Libertarians would realize how inconsistent they are, and figure out that getting rid of niggers and Jews is retarded socialist economics.

What do you think confiscating Jewish property through the state is? Do you have a free market when you are literally barring certain kinds of people from buying and selling? That's retarded.


 No.17460

>>17254

I can't make shit here in America at most places due to the huge load of horrible laws and unions that make my workers do jack shit for most the time I'm paying them.


 No.17461

>>17254

Oh, and another, very important thing:

Prices.

Chineese-produced goods are cheap as fuck. That means I have additional dosh to spend elsewhere.


 No.17465

>>17446

>If borrowing money was bad we wouldn't do it

Retard logic

>Banning interest will literally never improve your country

So you think debt is good?


 No.17469

>>17465

Clearly you are the smartest


 No.17500

>>17459

Well, for starters, the sort that want to get " rid of niggers and Jews", don't style themselves as "National Libertarians".


 No.17515

File: 1455726705209-0.jpg (74.94 KB, 500x357, 500:357, detroit in the past.jpg)

File: 1455726705210-1.jpg (199.33 KB, 720x490, 72:49, detroit-abandoned-building….jpg)

>>17461

A Short term gain at best.

You get a cheap plaything to amuse yourself and your money leaves the nation never to return.

and that manufacturing job goes somewhere else..

The economic health of the nation depends on fairly prosperous middle class. They are an economic multiplier.

They buy products, the buy houses and pay taxes that support social services.

When you tear out that base for a quick buck you get Detroit.

In 1960, Detroit was the fourth largest city in America with the highest per capita wages.

With Nationalist Economics Detroit would still be a great city.


 No.17517

>>17515

>Never to return

What is foreign investment? What is export?

>With Nationalist Economics Detroit would still be a great city.

With "Nationalist Economics" Detroit would be a crater


 No.17518

>>17517

Foreign investment? It's not foreigners investing in America, it's America money building another nation.. and it's not exports it's imports.


 No.17519

>>17518

Are you purposely being dense?


 No.17520

>>17519

He's just ignorant I guess

Which is okay tbh but not when he wants to go hard on economics and tell us we're retarded

Also: MONEY LEAVING NATION WE ARE IN CRISIS. BECAUSE MONEY IS VALUE.


 No.17521

File: 1455735857185-0.png (15.5 KB, 752x452, 188:113, decline of unions.png)

File: 1455735857200-1.jpg (35.55 KB, 600x382, 300:191, ceo pay.jpg)

>>17520>>17519

and how is that idea wrong?

After World War 2, the United States held over half the world's gold reserves, and had a GNP equal to the rest of the world combined.

Please tell me how holding wealth, and actually producing things are NOT economically important.

Please tell me how my idea that demand for products is created by workers who can afford what they make is flawed.

The decline of America Industry (and unions) correlates very well with declining standard of living for most of the country.

Please tell me how having two part time min. wage jobs with no benefits is the same as having a solid union job with a retirement plan.

You'll have to do more than call me stupid and spout a slogan in CAPS LOCK, if you want to convince anyone of anything.


 No.17522

>>17521

GNP is the value of goods and services produced in a country in a period of time. Gold reserves have nothing to do with it.

Holding money is only good if you value the money more than what the money could buy

American industry isn't in decline and neither are living standards. Unions are stupid

>Muh CEOs, boo hoo so unfair


 No.17523

File: 1455738691833-0.png (32.63 KB, 656x497, 656:497, tax revenues for corporati….png)

File: 1455738691872-1.jpg (41.41 KB, 682x435, 682:435, historical_tax_rates.jpg)

>>17522

I didn't say the GNP was connected to gold reserves.. and having a cash reserve isn't a good thing? Didn't your parents ever tell you to put aside some money for a rainy day?

American Industry has not declined?

When was the last time you bought a television made in the United States?

"In 1958, 28% of employed Americans worked in manufacturing; in 2008, only 8% did so. In 1958, there were 14.6 million factory workers; in 2008, only 12.7 million Americans worked in factories. Not since the industrial revolution in the mid-19th century has manufacturing occupied such a small relative share of the American economy."

http://shroudedindoubt.typepad.com/bodyparts/2009/02/the-decline-of-american-manufacturing.html

Wages have declined. It's a fact.

http://www.businessinsider.com/real-wages-decline-literally-no-one-notices-2013-6

and the increase of CEO's salaries is more than unfair it's an obscenity.

They increased their profits and salaries while decreasing what the workers were paid.. (By outsourcing and union busting) and then got tax cuts as well.

Unions are great. Learn some fricking history. Before labor unions they used to really fuck people over at work.

http://www.wvculture.org/history/minewars.html

It's really cute you have your little ideology,, but if you want to sit at the adult table, you have to back your opinions with some facts or at least reasonable metaphor or something.


 No.17524

>>17500

So what does the "National" bit mean then? I thought they were trying to ingratiate them to the NatSocs on /pol/: "L-look, of course we should g-gas the jews, but can we have a free market afterwards? Pleeeaaase?"


 No.17525

File: 1455740636199.gif (33.94 KB, 600x477, 200:159, BGproductivityandcompensat….gif)

>>17523

>Save money teehee

I already said you can save your own money

Enjoy your 17th century debunked trade theories tho

>Muh manufacturing

>TVs should be made in Murica

This isn't 1950

It makes no sense to have educated workers in a developed economy doing manufacturing. That's why manufacturing industries get outbid for workers

(Most of the reduction is due to technology anyway)

And did you know there are other industries than manufacturing? What's with this illogical fetish you people have?

>wages have declining!

'weekly earnings'- seems like a legit number lol

They didn't include employee benefits

Immigration could also fuck this number

>labor unions are totally cool

Increasing wages without increasing productivity causes unemployment and higher prices.

Labor unions cause poverty


 No.17526

File: 1455742238539.jpg (91.27 KB, 814x717, 814:717, producitivity.jpg)

>>17525

productivity and compensation?

Productivity is not the greatest thing in the world. Productivity is the output by number of people employed.

Let's say I own a factory that makes widgets. One worker can make five widgets a day,, I get some new machines and now one worker can make twenty widgets day.

The demand for widgets stays the same so I fire 75% of my production staff and still met the demand for my product.

and I don't lower prices. Why the fuck would I do that? People were used to paying x amount for a widget and are going to keep doing it. I just pocket the increased profits.

Automation is going to cause a massive economic crisis in the near future.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU

Labor unions cause poverty? Better type that in CAPLOCK, maybe the will make it true.

How can increasing wages, improving working conditions, ending child labor, getting medical care for injured workers, pensions or any of the other things created by labor unions in the history of the United States create poverty?

I already explained how a decently paid worker good for the economy.

Do you have an argument with facts or a metaphor or some logic or just more catch phrases?


 No.17527

File: 1455742650445.jpg (106.09 KB, 640x640, 1:1, 95r.jpg)

>>17526

It's becoming increasingly clear you have never studied economics and don't know what you're talking about


 No.17528

>>17526

Productivity tracks with wages- and always has- because it is the extra revenue a worker brings to a firm. Your graphs are lying to you and have been rekt many times

If companies are making profits, more companies enter the market and bid down prices. Most people know that

Automation was always supposed to wreck the economy but it never did because human wants are infinite

Having well-paid workers is good but unemployment is bad and high prices are bad

I'm going to go ahead and say your posts are leftist shit / retardedness / insults and mine are dank. Would be better if you knew basic economic terms (or even if you agreed to stop pretending)


 No.17529

File: 1455743208658.gif (1.39 MB, 360x270, 4:3, well we're waiting.gif)

>>17527

Than enlighten me.

Please explain to me and everyone else how losing our manufacturing base is good for the nation.

Please explain to me how money flowing out of the nation instead of into it is good for the nation.

Please explain to me why a fairly prosperous middle class is not essential to the American Standard of Living.

I said "Please' and everything.

I eagerly await your next post.


 No.17530

File: 1455743597329.png (176.38 KB, 877x1024, 877:1024, Henry ford quote.png)

>>17528

>because human wants are infinite

Wanting and getting are two separate things, son.

People can desire all sorts of things, but it doesn't mean shit unless they can buy them.


 No.17531

>>17529

'Because how could anyone explain to me why I'm wrong when I'm not wrong'

-Nothing is lost when workers stop manufacturing, and do other things instead

-When you pay money for something and get something back, both people benefit

-American middle class is better than Europe's for a reason


 No.17532

File: 1455743895844.jpg (67.31 KB, 470x260, 47:26, college grads by state.jpg)

>>17525

>It makes no sense to have educated workers in a developed economy doing manufacturing

Do you think everyone goes to college? (See pic) it's the percentage of the population with college degrees by state in 2013.

and what makes you think your Poly Sci degree is open doors for you? Do you think someone is going to pay you to share your insights into John Locke with them?


 No.17533

>>17530

Then they can buy them with all the money they saved


 No.17534

File: 1455744421874-0.jpg (88.02 KB, 500x732, 125:183, boomer life.jpg)

File: 1455744421874-1.jpg (191.3 KB, 955x713, 955:713, American is probably doome….jpg)

File: 1455744421874-2.jpg (37.32 KB, 624x425, 624:425, American wage decline.jpg)

>>17531

Wow.. so many charts and links backing up the idea that working two part time jobs is just as good as a solid union job with a retirement plan!

Nothing is lost when workers stop manufacturing? How about their jobs? How about all the other jobs at businesses they used buy goods and services from?


 No.17535

File: 1455744673903.jpg (64.79 KB, 600x600, 1:1, walmart-subsidy-1.jpg)

>>17533

Saving money when you live paycheck to paycheck and have to accept public aid to keep food on the table. (see pic)

Walmart is now the largest employer in the United States.

In 1960, the largest employer was General Motors. Do you think General Motors gave seminars to their workers about how to apply for food stamps and housing assistance?

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/dec/06/alan-grayson/alan-grayson-says-more-walmart-employees-medicaid-/


 No.17537

File: 1455745469734.jpg (28 KB, 400x400, 1:1, 1449623944445.jpg)

>>17535

I wonder if there were poor people in 1960

Btw your graphs

1) are ridiculously zoomed in

2) are misleading

3) mostly indicate bad government

:/

Btw the idea that welfare 'subsidises' walmart employees is fucking illiterate

Welfare reduces the marginal benefit of work, and therefore the supply of workers. So Walmart has to pay more to its workers


 No.17540

>>17537

Walmart has to pay more to their workers?

If they are paying more why are so many if it's full time workers on welfare?

How are graphs that a decades long decline "zoomed in"?

But yeah,, this might indicate bad government. A bad government that did nothing to prevent American businesses from going "multinational".

and the idea that Walmart's profits are being indirectly subsidized is illiterate?

Do you know what that word means?

sub·si·dize.

[ˈsəbsəˌdīz]

VERB

1.support (an organization or activity) financially:

"it was beyond the power of a state to subsidize a business"

synonyms: give money to · pay a subsidy to · contribute to ·

[more]

•pay part of the cost of producing (something) to reduce prices for the buyer:

"the government subsidizes basic goods including sugar, petroleum, and wheat

The Government shells up nearly 3 Billion to compensate Walmart's employees for their shit wages while Walmart makes a 15 Billion dollar profit.

How is this not a subsidy for them? The Tax payer is providing things the employer is not.

Surely you rather see Walmart make 12 Billion dollars and the government not have to provide food stamps and housing assistance to employed people.


 No.17560

>>17540

Wages are higher than they would be without welfare for the reasons that I said

If you can't read you're double illiterate and need to go back to >>/leftypol/


 No.17572

File: 1455758742492.jpg (108.49 KB, 640x360, 16:9, Walmart.jpg)

>>17560

If it was for the government helping walmart employees get by,, they'd go on strike like the old timers used to and get a livable wage

But the government makes up the difference and Walmart is able to continue paying shit wages and making high profits.

You are so committed to your poorly thought out opinion you cannot even admit the meaning of the word "subsidize".

Personally, I have no problem with the government subsidizing something that benefits lots of people.. but this shit doesn't benefit anyone except Rich fuckers who didn't need any help.

Wouldn't you rather see Walmart only make 12 Billion dollars and the tax payers not have to shoulder the burden of providing food stamps and housing assistance to employed people?


 No.17575

>>17572

I already said what's wrong with striking and unions, and in this case it probably wouldn't even work because of the MW reserve army

They're making profits because they bring things, including unskilled workers, together, in an efficient way, to supply products at a low price. That helps reduce poverty for everyone- and it's mostly poor people who go to Walmart. If they couldn't make a profit no-one would invest and prices would be higher as a result.

The workers would be worse off too

Worker turnover is sometimes a good thing. If wages were artificially high workers would be allocated to a not very helpful Walmart job when they could be doing other things which are more urgent, as indicated by the price mechanism.

The high turnover mostly shows that people find new jobs pretty soon- ie. Walmart hire the least skilled, least experienced workers. Presumably they don't need good workers as much as other places. So it makes sense they would pay a low wage

I think on some level you know you're sort of silly and just ranting stupid things with 3rd rate /leftypol/ memes- and suggesting ideas that don't work

I


 No.17656

> Great Industrialists. like Ford, knew this. Ford paid he workers in his first factory twice the going rate.

Only because he wanted the best workers.

> It's called an "economic multiplier".

Keynesian bullshit. How cute.


 No.17867

>>17572

>average $17/hr

I call bullshit. I got paid $15/hr as industrial engineer. Warehouse jobs are $9 - $12


 No.17881

>>17867

they might be very top heavy with a lot of middle managers




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