/liberty/ - Liberty

The holocaust did happen, I'm fairly convinced of that. I'm also convinced that there are far fewer holocaust survivors than people pretend, and that those are mercilessly exploited by an actual jewish conspiracy.

Also, nope, the holocaust was not in any way a singular event. If anything made it stand out from atrocities of a similar scale, then it was the efficiency with which it was carried out. Same goes for any killing done by the nazis, though. Germans are efficient as fuck, so of course they'd be efficient at committing mass murder, too.

Honestly, I don't see why people care so much about disproving the holocaust. If it didn't happen, then the nazis were still fucking assholes, and the jewish conspiracy exploiting the holocaust would still be immoral cunts.

The Nazi bureaucracy was extremely corrupt and incompetent; mobilization of industry was horribly botched, business owners often had to bride officials to get imported resources, and the chain of command and departmental jurisdictions were horribly confused. Either thousands of highly competent civil servants sprung out of the earth, fully formed, in 1941 and started keeping implausibly detailed records of executions, or a large portion of the Holocaust records were fabricated by the Allies try to blacken the image of the Nazis and further justify the war or by German officials positioning themselves for a pay raise by exaggerating their accomplishments.

>>19389

*bribe: business owners did not have to marry bureaucrats

my impression is that it happened to an extent, but was greatly exaggerated

>>19376

friendly reminder that rothbard was

- revisionist ('the goal of ww2 .. the murder of germans and japanese ')

- segregationist

- openly racist

- against female suffrage

- anti zionist

>>19385

sounds like your view will sharpen when you do some additional digging

>>19389

>The Nazi bureaucracy was extremely corrupt and incompetent

as a german I find that extremely unlikely to be true

post some solid sauces

>>19407

its very obvious there was raging antisemitism in germany. we could talk about the reasons for this.

from what I gathered its mostly because hitler had a raging antiboner for communists and their subversive essence, all of whom were jewish. and also observed that finance and media were mostly run by jews. and any spreading of degeneracy (like porn) orginiated from individuals that were [bonus: are] jewish. and of course he was aware of the international zionist elite destablizing countries for personals gain, as well as central bank madness.

so 'justified' or not [whether that was the best option is a wholly different questions; my tldr is no], they certainly wanted the vast majority of jews, specifically everyone they werent 100% certain about loyalty to the country, out.

then rises the question, was there a systematic extermination? were there gassings [of live humans]?

and then there are some questions regarding the legitimacy of the theory

- why was every single death camp in soviet territory, with no inspections allowed until way after the war?

- why did they ferry dutch jews in trains all across europe instead of executing them right there or at least building some local gas chambers?

- if you have a bunch of disarmed prisoners, why go through the effort of herding them into fake showers?

- why gas instead of just shoot? its way cheaper

- why did they use something that was develped as pestizide targeted at small insects?

- why burn instead of just dumping the bodies into mass graves?

- why make it illegal to use ground radar to map the alleged mass graves?

- how come the people who did it anyway did not find anything?

- how come there is not one eyewitness that actually saw a murder (they all go like 'I saw my father get seperated .. I was selected for murder' and then conclude 'he was selceted for death.. died via gasoline injection'

- if you look at the actual official historic evidence, the eyewitnesses cited are the same that claimed things like 'the nazis used bodies to kindle the fire' (bodies dont burn) wich implies what they describe cant possibly be real.

- the only 'evidence' they have is the commander of auschwitz swearing at court 1.5m jews died at the camp

- why did they hang every single person that was remotely involved / could possibly have seen something – remember the only person to testify is the ausschwitz commander?

- what is the role of the institutionalized program known as 'de-nazification' that aimed at specifically 'educating' germans about the evils of the nazi era.. evils no german was in any aware of before, wich included replacing german media?

- why did they force (this was involuntary) germany to give citizenship to turkish guest workers ?

- why is nobody talking about the years-long sustained bombing of german civil population, with the offical goal of 'demoralizing' the nation (so no bs about muh military targets)

- why is nobody talking about the german genocide of ~3M germans under general eisenhower?

- does anybody believe the reason for the US entering the war is 'a sunken ship' ? (wich was probably provoked to begin with)

could it be that the nazis 'had' to be evil to fit the narrative?

of both the soviets and allies (and zionists in both countries)

why are they teaching in germans schols how the marshal plan saved the german economy, without mentioning the horrendously high reparation payments obviously weighing it down, to the point many ecnomics at the time believed it would straight up destroy it?

could it have anything to do witht he fact that our consitution and most laws were written by the allies?

>>19411

>friendly reminder that rothbard was

I should add to that: One should never forget that even the most socially conservative ancap is still an ancap. I have yet to meet one who denied the personhood or the capacity for rational thought in a minority group.

>sounds like your view will sharpen when you do some additional digging

Thanks. I can't say I'm opposed to it.

>as a german I find that extremely unlikely to be true

Same here. Even the DDR was relatively efficient, for a socialist regime, what with setting up a wall and a killzone as well as one of the largest and tightest HUMINT-networks of all time. Efficiency and orderliness are things that define us Germans.

Also, interesting information there. I knew some of it, but not all.

>Any holocaust revisionists here? I want to see if libertarians or ancaps also know that holohoax is a hoax

It is literally

100%

not worth my time to investigate this issue. Let's say I do 500 hours of research and conclude "yup, it was bullshit," COOL

1. Still an ancap

2. I still think the Nazis were assholes

3. I now have an exceptionally uncomfortable belief that I have no good reason to want to explain to a fellow libertarian (they'd rightly ask "why the fuck are you trying to explain this, even") and I wouldn't have a good reason as to why it was important. They'd, understandably, just assume I was an anti-semite/Nazi sympathizer and not that I was motivated to debunk the holocaust out of an unflinching dedication to accurate history.

>>19411

>>19412

Some surprisingly mainstream political scientists have maintained for decades that Nazi Germany had horribly weak institutions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Mommsen#Functionalism_and_the_.22Weak_Dictator.22_Thesis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Broszat#Functionalism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Kershaw#Structuralist_views

>>19423

My thoughts exactly.

The Holocaust isn't really worth the time to investigate.

Basically

There was no need for America to enter into either WW1 or 2, and FDR provoked the japs into attacking Pearl Harbour so he had a reason to. Shit had nothing to do with the holocaust whatsoever

Numbers don't really matter to me. If it was 200,000 people who were gassed or 6,000,000 people who were gassed, the core concept remains the same: people were gassed. While it's proven that the numbers are unreliable, uncertain, and exaggerated, that isn't an argument winner.

The fact of the matter is that no-one was killed in gas chambers. There weren't gas chambers. The fact that most Holocaust survivors talk about gas chambers, and that there weren't gas chambers, means they are lying or unreliable in some other way. At the very least, the person acquainted with Holocaust revisionism on even the most basic level should be skeptical about the whole thing and find it hard to believe what all the -bergs and -steins have to say about how their people suffered.

Surely, after all, the Germans suffered a whole lot more.