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File: 1458397315894.png (75.07 KB, 1024x627, 1024:627, The_Antipoverty_Effect_of_….png)

 No.19413

What do you people think of this image?

My instinct is to say it's a hock of shit but wouldn't you trust it if the line went the other way?

So then should I become a leftist/ centrist?

Life is hard

 No.19414

I mean a hock of shit not as in they lied but as in 'percentage of poverty reduced' will be a gay as fuck metric


 No.19415

File: 1458397658467.gif (121.05 KB, 600x487, 600:487, BG-war-on-poverty-50-years….gif)

There's also this image though.

I don't know what to believe about welfare


 No.19416

They might be using a relative rather than absolute standard of poverty tbh


 No.19417

>>19415

1 - The countries look cherrypicked. Why were the selected countries chosen?

2 - What exactly does the y-axis mean, how was it measured?

3 - Where does this information come from?

4 - Where is the control?

>>19415

19 fucking 71 man. 1971.


 No.19419

>>19413

It's true, but then I'm not opposed to welfare. I'm opposed to overregulation of the market. Welfare is just skimming something off the top with taxes.

>So then should I become a leftist/ centrist?

No, you should just become a libertarian/classical liberal who supports welfare, such as the negative income tax scheme.

Leftists bring welfare, but they also raise the cost of doing business so tremendously that they are killing the goose they want to lay the golden egg.

Leftist parties also want to disarm us and almost invariably support enforcing feminist bullshit by law.


 No.19421

File: 1458400928785.png (69.51 KB, 1024x627, 1024:627, Absolute_Poverty_Rates_bef….png)

>>19417

'These countries were chosen to typify the broad range of high-income nations

available within the Luxembourg statistics that are most comparable to the United

States'

Rest of the stuff is too confusing 4 me but I think its from:

http://www2.hawaii.edu/~noy/300texts/poverty-comparative.pdf

It seems to be 90% talking about relative poverty so I am pretty comforted.

Absolute poverty is difficult because of immigration, birth rates and maybe genetic IQ differences if you believe in that shit


 No.19427

>>19413

its pretty obvious that if you subsidize people with almost no ecnomic output, thus poor, then you will have fewer poor people

that has absolutely nothing to do with whether its good or not

whoever made that graph is a marxist. wich means they think people not dying from poverty is a good thing.

in reality, assuming we live in a decentish system where economic output => certain amt of wealth

(a system where this isnt true would for example be communism, because your wealth is stripped, regardless of economic output)

then poverty => no ecnomic output

wich implies they cost more than they produce, wich is the same as beeing a net drain on the system, wich implies they shouldnt exist, wich is equivalent to 'very poor people dying is good'


 No.19428

>>19427

>>19413

also the graph conveniently leaves out the full picture

i.e. how does it affect the overall wealth? (e.g. GDP)


 No.19432

File: 1458430339405.png (64.85 KB, 549x535, 549:535, 2016-03-19 23_09_39-povert….png)

You have to explain what you're seeing if you want to make an argument from it.

Poverty is Europe is a relative metric which means it can be abused in a number of ways. That you could reliably reduce poverty by making the middle class poorer was one of the reasons the family poverty definition used by British government was revised in 2015. Wages for lower social grade workers had been rising since 2012 but the data showed that more families were falling in "poverty" because middle class wages were rising faster. According to the source, anchored poverty fell between 1987 and 2000 in all eleven subject countries.

These are the questions you need to ask:

Does income redistribution solve the structural causes for poverty (eduction, opportunities, competitiveness)?

Is income redistribution a long term solution to structural poverty, so that in paying now we save more later?

Are there alternatives methods of alleviating poverty without increasing the tax burden?

The answers to these questions are no, no and yes. It's simply not enough that you hide poverty in the here and now by supplementing the incomes of the poor, you have to be hard on the causes of their poverty. It's more preferable, I should think, to try and make the disadvantaged financially independent, so that they don't become long term dependants.


 No.19434

>>19428

Exactly. The US may be at the bottom of that graph but it is the highest producer of net wealth in the world. We could argue all day about whether charity for the poor should be voluntary or mandatory, or whether we even have an obligation to them, but this is /liberty/ and I think it's going to be a pretty one-sided debate. Of course, the whole premise of the chart is that if you take everyone's income and give it to the poor, they'll stop being poor. Well no shit. If I did the same but gave it to the rich instead, I could complain about government spending increasing the inequality of wealth.

There's plenty wrong with this chart, too.

There's no sources to be found anywhere, so it could be completely made up. I doubt it is but you never know.

Consider that the bottom axis is welfare spending on young people as a percentage of GDP so of course it's going to be smaller. If you produce a fuckton of wealth and skim less off the top to welfare spending, you can still have an adequate amount of cash in your welfare system.

"Total percentage of poverty reduced" is such a strange metric that I don't even know where to start. How do you even measure that? How many years does this account for? Where is the poverty line, and is it the same for all countries involved?

And, most of all, the samples. The only countries included are western Europe and Canada and the US. Take out the last two and you have a better representative population, as the circumstances in North America are unique. If not for the US as an outlier, the fit would be much closer to horizontal, which has a completely different conclusion: Government spending reaches a point of near-zero marginal return. Hell, even with the present data I think you'd reach that outcome fitting it with a second-degree polynomial instead of linear, first-degree fit.

Where is the data for other countries? Why only these countries?


 No.19435

>>19421

More than welfare has changed since 1960s. That's a very silly graph.

Do you feel that government social programs reduce poverty? If so, how do you think it happens?


 No.19438

>>19417

>19 fucking 71 man. 1971.

The year everything started going to shit, thanks Nixon


 No.19486

>>19435

I agree that it's not that useful for a lot of reasons

We should keep in mind that Switzerland has less spending and a freer market than the US.

And like I said the other things like demographic displacement and low skilled immigration will mess with the data.

More research is needed!


 No.19487

>>19435

It could reduce poverty if it gives more resources /spending to poor people obv


 No.19489

>>19427

>whoever made that graph is a marxist. wich means they think people not dying from poverty is a good thing.

Nice definition of Marxism you have there m8.


 No.19492

>>19427

False flag leftypol get out ree




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