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File: 8d67623375dc04a⋯.png (715.56 KB, 800x524, 200:131, ass.png)

 No.49432

strictly speaking, ancapism allows socialism whenever it's voluntary, am i right?

if that's the case, that would mean that if a multi-co-op arised in ancapistan (and assuming it worked just right), generalized socialism would naturally arise as the people would (for sake of the example) realize it's a better way to organize themselves.

the problem, of course, is that such scenary couldn't happen since big corporations would be able to get rid of emergent co-ops or similars, through weapons and violence, even when socialists would be playing fairly, without violating anyone else's NAP, this scenario has taken place innumerable times throughout history.

But you'll argue that corporations are nothing but the consequence of a corrupted non-voluntary state, which sound pretty good as is a reasonable hypothesis to explain how corporations are born, but i still have little questions about it:

>how do you demonstrate that the fusion of many privates (forming a big monopolist corporation) couldn't take place in ancapism?

>how do you demonstrate that every (or at least, the most of) corporations arise from the corrpution of non-voluntary ruling states?

thanks

 No.49434

>>49432

Actually they will say

>Co-ops wouldn't evolve because they are shit.

>Corporations wouldn't fight each other because it would be very expensive and you would end up getting yourself killed or out of business.

>companies would join together, at least up to the most efficient point, but after that joining together would result in a less efficient firm that would lose market share


 No.49435

>>49434

Pretty much this

>>49432

>>how do you demonstrate that the fusion of many privates (forming a big monopolist corporation) couldn't take place in ancapism?

Cartels face the same economic calculation problems that monopolies do, and cannot rationally allocate resources for the same reason that a state cannot. If they are not considered to be a unique and necessary institution by the general populous, and thus not granted general social exemption from the standard norms to which everyone else is held, then they have no way of shifting the costs of these inefficiencies and so they will go broke.

>>how do you demonstrate that every (or at least, the most of) corporations arise from the corrpution of non-voluntary ruling states?

While voluntary collectivization, and even fictional corporate personhood, are possible in a voluntary legal system, these firms would not have the above-mentioned mechanism of socially-accepted violence to redirect resources and prevent competition. They could try to hire an army, but it isn't likely to go very well for them, since (among other things) anybody with enough to steal that it's worth it after paying the triggermen has enough to out-bid the aggressor for violent defense.

That is to say; it is possible to incorporate a business in hypothetical AnCapistan. However, in the sense that we are worried about (limited liability protections, lobbying capacity, regulatory capture, subsidies, IP, and so on), a corporation is merely a manifestation of state interference.


 No.49452

>>49432

Socialism is an inferior system, plain and simple. Shooting yourself in the foot is fucking retarded, but it's your foot and your gun, so I don't give a shit.


 No.49456

File: dc36ccbac896651⋯.jpg (142.37 KB, 1264x657, 1264:657, 1444689811807-1.jpg)

>>49432

>But you'll argue that corporations are nothing but the consequence of a corrupted non-voluntary state

Well in the case of the USA, whenever the workers did try to organize (whether unions or socialist crap) it tended to be the state or city governments that hired private mercenary groups/protected them under law, so yeah, it's kinda hard to not say it was the result of an involuntary state.

>how do you demonstrate that the fusion of many privates (forming a big monopolist corporation) couldn't take place in ancapism?

I'm not saying it couldn't happen, I'm just saying it's unlikely. Just as bottom-up structures tend to start collapsing as they get too large, so too do top-down structures once they reach a certain zenith. We call this diseconomies of scale, in which the growth strains of a business actually begin to hurt production, worker morale, innovation, etc. more than the expanding profits help.

Also, a monopoly/oligopoly is not inherently a bad thing in a market setting. Assuming the monopoly is backed only by its shareholders and the money it can produce rather than government privileges, it has to continuously innovate or otherwise provide either a superior good/service or cheaper good/service to their consumer-base in order to stay afloat. It will never be the best per-say, and other companies will be created to fill those niches/challenge the default monopoly's market share, but it will improve. If a monopoly forms, it will likely look similar to what we refer to as a "star bus topology" in networking. You have a baseline product that consumers want (the main bus), the monopolies (the main network routers/hubs), and then the specific products offered by the monopoly's competition (the PCs and/or sub-hubs).

>how do you demonstrate that every (or at least, the most of) corporations arise from the corrpution of non-voluntary ruling states?

Well to begin with, a corporation is a legal entity that requires a state to exist in the first place. Its literal definition is a company or group of people authorized to act as a single entity (legally a person) and recognized as such in law. You can read up on it more on wikipedia if you want: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_corporate_law

Now if you're asking about large companies rather than corporations specifically, then there's a few examples of monopolies arising without the state (de beers and the early stock market are the most prominent), but these were typically niche fields that were hard to get into/worked better under a monopoly than under other programs, or were created by trade secrets.


 No.49457

>>49434

This sums it up nicely tbh fam.


 No.49481

>>49434

>>49435

>>49456

how about when the commodities manufacturated have a tremendously inelastic demand? (like, when the means to produce the commodities are scarce, or when the products themselves are absolutely necessary for survival)

thanks


 No.49482

>>49432

If they try to bust out socialist camps, wouldn't they also try to bust out new businesses?

If big corps can "bust" new corps without the government, which they can't, then Austrian economics are wrong.


 No.49512

>how do you demonstrate that the fusion of many privates (forming a big monopolist corporation) couldn't take place in ancapism?

it could

>how do you demonstrate that every (or at least, the most of) corporations arise from the corrpution of non-voluntary ruling states?

depends on what you mean by "corporation"


 No.49516

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>49481

>when the means to produce the commodities are scarce

Everything is scarce. Doesn't prevent competition. In fact, it's the entire reason there is competition.

>when the products themselves are absolutely necessary for survival

There's loads of competition in food and water, and there was loads of competition in the medical industry before it was regulated. Empirically not a problem.

To maximize revenues, all firms price their goods in the elastic region of the demand curve. See lecture for details.




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