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/liberty/ - Liberty

Non-authoritarian Discussion of Politics, Society, News, and the Human Condition (Fun Allowed)
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WARNING! Free Speech Zone - all local trashcans will be targeted for destruction by Antifa.

File: 91a9c1ca9375362⋯.png (631.54 KB, 720x404, 180:101, ClipboardImage.png)

 No.76981

What's the problem with state capitalism?

 No.76985

If it's the state it's not capitalism


 No.76986

File: c480c4dc4de7c49⋯.png (602.38 KB, 793x794, 793:794, c480c4dc4de7c49143c4edb244….png)

The State.


 No.77007

>>76981

The State does not generate wealth.


 No.77010

File: 57199200122c467⋯.jpg (124.63 KB, 750x937, 750:937, national socialist comunis….jpg)

We need an Fascist Flag.


 No.77013

>>76981

The state and the private property


 No.77015

>>76986

>>76985

>>77007

>>77013

Nothing wrong with one person amassing enough wealth to own an entire country and rent land to people


 No.77017

>>77015

We will not obey


 No.77018

>>77015

It's not the State then.


 No.77019

It's redundant, all capitalism is statist and there can be no capitalism without a state.


 No.77022

>>77019

>when you're wrong on purpose


 No.77026

File: c480453a59b646f⋯.jpg (49.76 KB, 1138x924, 569:462, tweeten-1516437818905.jpg)

>>77019

>being a socialist

>ever


 No.77030

>>77017

You will be deported :^)

>>77018

>monarchy is not a state if you buy the land

>>77019

It is socialism that is statist my friend


 No.77034

>>77026

>not being a national socialist

top cuck

>>77030

>>monarchy is not a state if you buy the land

This actually make me consider seeing monarch as something more than larpers, if you apply such concept to very small countries.

Actually that would be kingdoms nonetheless, but still another way to see it.


 No.77036

>>77034

>Actually that would be kingdoms nonetheless

Just as old people give their money to their kids a country owner could give the country to their kids.

There IS a country run a lot like a corporation where the king uses it as a profit generator:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lichtenstein


 No.77037

>>77036

url is fucked click on the country one


 No.77040

File: 1d22b0a00d37449⋯.gif (2.35 MB, 480x270, 16:9, at last I truly see - taki….gif)

>>77036

>>77037

Thanks anon.


 No.77090

>>77010

Sorry but there isn't any other ideology that killed more parasites than communism. Stalin alone wiped out many useless parasites from USSR society.

But there's still many out there…and no, it's not just the jews. There's many, many more. Including you and the entire population of the USA


 No.77091

>>77090

Ah the parasites killed other parasites while at the same time killing 100 million bystanders


 No.77093

>>77091

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/4000381/Josef-Stalin-named-among-greatest-Russians-in-nationwide-TV-vote.html

Based russians :D

You know you're nothing but a useless cunt that deserve nothing less than the coldest gulag.


 No.77095

>>77093

>economy collapses because of shitty system

hahahahahaha


 No.77096

>>77095

Socialism saved capitalism in 2008. If the banks weren't "saved" the people would have lost all of their savings and then they would have got very angry and problably hanged all of you useless cunts :D


 No.77098

>>77096

Socialism caused the collapse in the first place


 No.77100

>>77096

Socialism saved the socialist banks by taxing the capitalist society via inflation.


 No.77104

>>77096

The only thing it did was delay falling on its ass by prolonging the suffering with more QE. The Government backed housing bubble is hardly Capitalism at work.


 No.77131

>>77104

I-It's not real capitalism! Real capitalism has never been tried!


 No.77134

>>77131

The capitalist parts are doing fine


 No.77166

>>76981

state


 No.77587

File: 2d2bb9d576d2e0b⋯.gif (2.7 MB, 4692x2568, 391:214, sadas.gif)

it works, and is evidence based, thats why feel- i mean praxeologists reject it


 No.77598

File: 01cfcefb37f1bf1⋯.png (36.95 KB, 309x367, 309:367, 1468018750806.png)

>>77587

I don't know if you've noticed yet, but we don't have country flags on this board.


 No.77600

File: 613203c5de8b38a⋯.jpg (324.82 KB, 1383x1600, 1383:1600, atlas feel.jpg)

>>77598

>we don't have country flags on this board

>tfw the flags on /liberty/ are not country flags

>tfw still no independent /liberty/ territory

Don't remind me…


 No.77604

It leaves in place authoritarian heirarchy and class (surplus value producers vs surplus value appropriators) and thus the same seeds for instability and collapse that private capitalism has.


 No.77605

>>77604

What if the state is a democracy and politicians are elected based on their ability to make money?


 No.77622

>>77096

So corporatism is now socialism eh? Would've been better if we jailed them like Iceland did.


 No.77714

File: 9cf25140419fb52⋯.jpg (109.18 KB, 1050x550, 21:11, keens1.jpg)

>>77598

US is most libertarian country, also shittiest "first world" country on literally every dimension


 No.77725

>>77714

For white people USA ranks better in almost every way vs Europe.


 No.77753

File: 30c11c43c370eef⋯.jpg (435.6 KB, 834x1276, 417:638, is this saint serious.jpg)

>>77714

>the US

>libertarian in any way, shape, or form

Maybe if the world consisted only of the largest 20 or so countries it would be, but that's still a false comparison.


 No.77754

File: f9b91ae329edc37⋯.jpg (25.71 KB, 800x708, 200:177, gans5.jpg)

>>77725

[citation needed] *dies from school shooting*


 No.77756

File: b2a1616aabf78ae⋯.jpg (11.1 KB, 320x320, 1:1, argument.jpg)

>>77753

US only country with guns and private healthcare, also capitalism

Just admit your ideology is shit and will never work


 No.77765

>>77754

Those deaths are all suicides, something Americans are given the means to do if they want. Some people want out, I believe they should be allowed to go. The rest of the gun deaths are black ghettos.


 No.77766

>>77756

>private healthcare

US healthcare is great if you can afford it. It would be cheaper if doctors were not forced to be tied to the state and competition was legal. As it is now government has made competing with big pharma mostly impossible.


 No.77778

File: de60cae61565e29⋯.png (71.11 KB, 896x716, 224:179, sdfsdfds.png)

>>77766

>hurr durr what is information assymetry

https://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/health-insurance-market-failures-and-what-can-be-done-about-them/

libertardians not understanding economics 101 yet again


 No.77780

File: a9ff986ab0821d2⋯.png (62.24 KB, 1024x1526, 512:763, school-killings-around-the….png)


 No.77790

File: 78e10876bbacb5b⋯.png (50.24 KB, 500x318, 250:159, existential-comics.png)

>>77019

This. Capitalism was more or less born in The English Revolution with the establishment of the capitalist state that allowed the rulling class to set up private property laws.

There can be no private property without the state, and any ancap autist will soon realize that the coorporations will establish their own state to enforce their class interests, most importantly; their property rights.


 No.77792

File: aab12814404b59f⋯.png (118.86 KB, 392x366, 196:183, cc1cbf02faeca183c007270849….png)

>>77780

The USA has well over 300 million people. What's the population of those other countries? And what happens to those nice, neat statistics when you include killings with just a single victims?

>>77790

>existential comics

pic related


 No.77793

File: 605326e884583b4⋯.jpg (9.25 KB, 220x255, 44:51, steben bolynu.jpg)


 No.77794

>>77010

>Hard facts over easy lies

<da joos probably did it. Yep they must have. It all makes sense


 No.77795

>>77778

>competition is made illegal by FDA

<ITS INFORMATION ASYMMETRY

kek


 No.77805

File: 061dc1065e16faa⋯.png (128.82 KB, 900x729, 100:81, shit.png)

>>77795

FDA makes sure people dont die from poison you retard


 No.77808

File: be50196d47b774c⋯.jpg (57.91 KB, 1166x720, 583:360, 096n7vqty93y.jpg)

>>77805

You have no right to tell me who I can and cannot poison!


 No.77816

File: c087dd3965fbd12⋯.png (220.45 KB, 516x503, 516:503, c087dd3965fbd121d32f1eb89c….png)

>>77805

Fuck off, statist faggot.


 No.77824

>>77725

Boy I sure do love living a shorter life than everyone in Western Europe and living under the threat of bankruptcy from a medical emergency.


 No.77840

>>77824

I'd rather live a shorter, more fulfilling life than one as a slave to corporate backers and corrupt polticians. Also if you ever went to an American doctor's office, you'd know you can pretty much tell them "bro I don't have insurance, work with me on these outrageous prices" and most of the time they'll lower the bill considerably. You wouldn't have that problem anyways if you had a decent fucking job that wasn't flipping burgers for 20 hours a week.


 No.77855

>>77840

>Also if you ever went to an American doctor's office, you'd know you can pretty much tell them "bro I don't have insurance, work with me on these outrageous prices" and most of the time they'll lower the bill considerably

Gonna need some sauce on that.


 No.77866

>>77840

> as a slave to corporate backers and corrupt polticians.

That's the USA.


 No.77878

>>77866

That's the western world in general. I don't know why you need to make some distinction between US and Western Europe. Its all shit.


 No.77891

>>77840

>You wouldn't have that problem anyways if you had a decent fucking job that wasn't flipping burgers for 20 hours a week.

boy, what a wonderful healthy community spirit you have there in your America

truly land of the opportunity even tho all of the decent entry level jobs went to China and mr Industrial Robot

tho I'm a welder I wouldn't trade this kind of job for a manager's office rat job in a million years

when they automate you, I'll still be there operating automatic welder like I do now

maybe I can even program one, as I have a kind of CS degree, I've seen guys doing it at the lathe, it's some basic scripting, coordinates n shiet


 No.77918

>>77891

It's the land of opportunity for scammers you communist.


 No.77921

>>77816

>damage control


 No.77927

(((cronyism)))


 No.77930

Communism is a horrible idea. It is all predicated on the idea that everyone is equal not under the law but qualitatively. It is founded on jealousy of success and openly demands theft and punishment of hard work and competence. Absolutely ignorant tripe. I wish people would stop saying, "Communism is a good idea but it doesn't work in the real world." That is total bullshit. Communism is a HORRIBLE retarded idea conceived by a fat, ugly, diseased, moron who leached off of capitalists and his parents his whole life while his wife and children suffered in poverty. Carl Marx spewed pseudo intellectual diarrhea about a 'workers revolution' when he was too lazy to work and too much of a coward to fight.


 No.77938

>>77756

State-licensed healthcare is not libertarian.


 No.77943

>>77019

>I Don't Know What Words Mean: The Post

>>77030

>monarchy is not a state if you buy the land

It isn't, though. Buying the land means the owners agreed to sell it to you. Your relationship with your "subjects" is explicitly contractual; you don't have the authority to simply impose edicts on them against their will.

>>77096

>Socialism saved capitalism in 2008.

>If the banks weren't "saved" the people would have lost all of their savings

>implying that being legally protected from failure, competition, or liability for your own management mistakes, getting constant tax-funded subsidies, and the power to simply issue mandatory government currency just by keying numbers into a computer terminal is in any way "capitalist"

American banks haven't been properly capitalist for over a century, and we have inflation and boom and bust cycles to show for it.

>>77131

>Real capitalism has never been tried!

Totally has. To whatever extent an economy is left free of government intervention, that economy flourishes.

>>77714

>US is most libertarian country,

Lolwut?

>>77756

>US only country with guns

Psh, no. Guns are in every country. The US just kinda allows it if you jump through the right hoops, pay the right fines, submit to the background check, only buy certain kinds of guns, don't keep them loaded without an extra special permission slip that you can't get everywhere, and still accept the idea that a cop will probably kill you no matter how well you handle the traffic stop.

>and private healthcare

The actually private parts of the healthcare system are fucking amazing. I've been on both "private" and state health insurance, and as bad as "private" health insurance is, at least I could see a doctor in a timely fashion. The health insurance market is one of the two most heavily regulated industries in the US (the other being banking; notice how well both of those industries are doing?), so even the nominally "private" health insurance is a legal compliance nightmare, and it's only gotten worse since the ACA. I can't afford "private" insurance anymore since it passed. I'm trying to find a direct primary care provider in my area, since they don't accept insurance, and consequently the care they provide and the prices they charge are unbelievably good. In fact, the individual you pictured came to the US for a course of cancer treatment at a facility that doesn't accept insurance, and he got the whole thing done, quickly and conveniently, for only a few hundred dollars. He could've had it done for "free" in Canada, but it would've taken him several times longer.

>>77790

>Capitalism was more or less born in The English Revolution

The academic discussion of capitalism may have been born then, but the activities which actually make up capitalism (ownership and trade) have been around since the dawn of man.

>>77805

>thinking the FDA is actually about consumer safety and not protecting big pharmaceutical companies from competition and lawsuits

No data has been able to show that the FDA has actually had a positive impact on drug safety. You can point to drugs being discovered to be dangerous (after receiving FDA approval by the way) and being banned, but that shows a failure of the FDA, not a success. Once it gets out that a product is poison, nobody wants to buy it anyway, and nobody wants to sell it either since dead people are poor customers.

Rule of Acquisition # 205: When the customer dies, the money stops a-comin'

>>77824

>threat of bankruptcy from a medical emergency

As pointed out above, the medical problems in the USA are clearly attributable to government interference. In the beginning of the 20th century, before healthcare was regulated, the US had medical care that was the envy of the world (in terms of outcomes they still do), and the average person could buy a year's worth of medical care for about the same amount as that same average person's one-day wages. That's right; the amount that the average person earned in one day was enough to cover the average year's medical costs, and they could go see their doctors whenever they wanted.

>>77855

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=negotiating+medical+bills

>>77891

>truly land of the opportunity even tho all of the decent entry level jobs went to China and mr Industrial Robot

Thanks to onerous regulations, sure. I suppose you're going to call all those regulations that make it harder and more expensive to hire people "capitalist", despite the capitalists warning since the dawn of fucking time that this was going to be the outcome.


 No.77953

>>77780

>not per capita

Feel free to argue anytime


 No.77987

>>77930

Marx did not, actually, invent the notion that reducing barriers to entry to manufacturing would increase wealth, and in fact, is pretty much a canker on the left with no positive relevance.

>>77096

That is not even remotely socialism.

Mutualism is the most successful school of socialism thus far, and if you check the sticky at the top, the board mods are calling it "right-wing capitalism" for completely-retarded ideological reasons. Namely, that they prefer men of straw to intellectual honesty.


 No.78029

>>77987

No, Marx didn't really invent anything. His 'ideas' were all derivative of other morons who came before him going back the self eating French revolution and beyond. What he did was crystallize all the bullshit into one ideological turd sandwich.

Marx didn't want to reduce any barriers. He wanted the government to own everything including the people and their progeny. Any system that denies you the right to property, especially your own body and the work of your hands, is slavery.

Communism is the ultimate barrier to entry into manufacturing. If you can't own property then how in the hell do you expect to start manufacturing anything? That isn't your drill press. That isn't your lathe. That isn't your bar of aluminum stock. That isn't your shop. You didn't build that… Right? Communist bullshit. A bunch of assholes standing around waiting for the government to tell them what they are allowed to do.

When everyone owns everything then nobody owns anything. That is why in communist societies there is always laziness, corruption, theft and universal inefficiency. In the Soviet Union people were starving to death because they couldn't get food from the warehouses to the people even when they could make enough. When you remove a profit motive then there is no reason to do your job. When everyone is paid equally with no regard for performance then there is no motive to excel. It becomes a race to the bottom and everyone looses.

Talk about lack of innovation, and imagination just look at the trabbi. They made the same shitty car for 33 years in East Germany. What happened during the same time in West Germany? The trabbi: a smoking 2 cycle pile of shit.

Trust me. I went to Europe in '92 and East vs. West was night and day. East Germany looked like shit compared to West Germany. It was prosperity, health, and wealth in the west and a horrible dull gray in the east. The difference was governance. The people in the east were risking death to escape to get to the west.

How many people are trying to flee South Korea to get to the North? 0! None! People are risking death to leave the North. More would leave but they are worried about their family being executed or put into prison camps. How many people are being held in forced labor prison camps in South Korea? None. 0.

There is no point in running this experiment again unless you just really hate people.

If people VOLUNTARILY want to live collectively in a community that they may LEAVE whenever they want. I have no problem with that. Go buy some land or a building or whatever and geau fore it. I don't care what others do voluntarily with others but I should NOT be forced to participate or pay for it.

We tried it all over the world. Communism sucks! Next? Socialism? The end goal of socialism is Communism. Even the USSR never dared to say that they were actually communist: Union of Soviet SOCIALIST Republic. usSr. Hell, the Nazis were socialists too. National Socialists party. Western Europe just applied LESS socialism than the east. Fabian vs marxist/leninist/stalinist. If you are an American and think socialism is wonderful or communism is wonderful go live in one of those countries for a while. Make sure you have a good escape plan.

Anyway, I hope people wake up soon before these leftist morons take over anything further. They have convinced a pretty significant number of our youth that slavery is freedom. Just remember that those who can't do, teach. All of these losers who couldn't make it in the real world are teaching our youth. Poorly. We have really screwed up our system of education. Really screwed it up. I say we should put the whole thing down the toilet and start from scratch. Kids today shouln't be afraid to go to school because they are worried about getting shot. They should be afraid to go to school because they will be turned into morons.


 No.78033

>>77943

>you don't have the authority to simply impose edicts on them against their will.

They will sign a contract that they will obey my rule or they will be deported into the ocean. Being born does not give anyone the right to my property because they happened to be on it.


 No.78034

>>78033

>they will obey or be deported

What if the deportation department is the people who dont obey?


 No.78037

>>78034

Then they will be shot by the PMC operators


 No.78038

>>78037

Why doesnt the PMC just shoot you and take your place? You only exist to collect money from your residents. They can do that perfectly well in your stead.


 No.78051

>>78029

Well, we'll break this into two parts, both of which come to the conclusion that you are terminally retarded.

>Communism is the ultimate barrier to entry into manufacturing.

Open access to tools prevents manufacturing, huh?

I suppose a market with no entry barrier would lead to the total cessation of exchange, too?

>That isn't your drill press.

True.

>That isn't your lathe.

True.

>That isn't your bar of aluminum stock.

False. Substrate is not a durable capital good.

>You didn't build that…

False. Product is not a durable capital good.

The nearest library has books I don't own. How long until 100 gorillion people die a horrible death, exactly?

Now, for the second part…

>gets told that Marx has no relevance or legitimacy.

>spends half a dozen paragraphs ranting about Marx and/or Marxism-Leninism.

See, this is how I KNOW you're literally fucking retarded. You're completely unable to actually relate, respond, or adapt to inputs, instead randomly spewing preprepared copypasta with no regard to context or inputs.

Not only could your entire 'intelligence' be replaced by a bot…. but more to the point, that bot's code would be very, very short…

For those in the home viewing audience, Marx spent his time at the First International purging leftists, which is why he is, umm, fucking hated. Lenin continued this trend, attacking (the October counterrevolution) a socialist-led revolution (the February revolution) to implement, in his words, capitalism.

He then continued attacking leftists at home (socialist expulsion, Krondstat) and abroad ('democratic centralism'). This was continued by Stalin, both through proxies such as Franco and Hitler, and directly in Spain and the Ukraine.

Back to you, however… the fact that you tried to "debunk" the words "marx kinda sucks" with paragraph after paragraph denouncing marx… proves that you are too retarded to be allowed on the internet. I honestly suggest you stop posting until you rectify that.

Have a nice day, and good luck.


 No.78064

>>78038

>Why doesnt the PMC just shoot you and take your place?

Because their weapons have remote locks on them and I will kill them all with cruise missiles.

>You only exist to collect money from your residents

Every capital owner ever


 No.78068

>>78064

>Because their weapons have remote locks on them and I will kill them all with cruise missiles.

Ok this is delving into fanfic territory.


 No.78069

>>78068

>stealing is okay for some reason because I own so much land

Managing a military that does not kill you (the commander) has been done for thousands of years. Everything collapses eventually and of course this is no exception.


 No.78092

>>78033

>They will sign a contract that they will obey my rule or they will be deported into the ocean.

You still have to get them to agree to sign it. It's a stupid condition for anybody to accept, but if they do, they still do. You still haven't imposed anything on them.


 No.78095

>>78064

>Because their weapons have remote locks on them and I will kill them all with cruise missiles.

Metal Gear!?


 No.78106

>>78092

>You still have to get them to agree to sign it.

I have to agree to get them to sign it, OUTSIDE THE WALLS, if they are the city illegally I don't have to ask them anything before I deport them.


 No.78110

>>78051

What a retard.

>Open access to tools prevents manufacturing, huh?

Show me where the fuck that ever happened in any of your communist wonderlands. Free access to injection molding equipment, milling machines, whatever. Just walk in to some place where they keep all of the manufacturing equipment waiting for you and knock yourself out. LOL. I'm sure that you can just wander into an Iphone slave factory in china and just start making whatever the fuck you want. Right? Sure. I'm sure that happens all the time. North Koreans regularly just start spontaneously building cars, lamps, tv's, sex dolls, and coffee tables at free factories right? Lots of 3d printers and machine tools in forced labor camps right? LOL! What are you 12? Do your tools say playschool on them?

Communism sucks everywhere it goes. If communism is so great which communist country can I buy you a one way plane for? You want to go to China? Oh, that's right they don't even have a way to become a Chinese citizen. You want to go to North Korea? Lots of great libraries there I hear. Just look at all of the NORTH Korean teenagers wandering around with $500 cell phones. Oh. There aren't any unless they are elitist parasites. You know, parasites like the ones in the intestines of North Korean military OFFICERS! You know, the ones getting shot while ESCAPING! North Korean free health care also includes anesthesia free amputations too. How about Cuba? Driving around AMERICAN cars from the 50's because they can't build their own. And that piece of aluminum bar stock that just got shoved in your ass belongs to the state komrade just like the eggs you ate for breakfast and the ass that they will eventually come out of when you are done with them. That simple. Everything belongs to the state under communism. That is the point of the thing.

The internet? America invented the thing. DARPA. Also invented the internationally accepted standards for all telephone systems. America did that. Capitalism built the internet Komrade.


 No.78122

>>78064

You may call yourself a king or whatever, but you really dont make yourself integral amd essential to the process of production. Just cause someone signed a contract doesnt mean there's an economic incentive to follow said contract. It benefits everyone except you to remove you from the equation at the first opportunity. The only way to avoid being removed would be to bring in multiple PMCs to habe competition and give certain people more control over they land so they have a stake in its maintinence, essentially youll have to voluntarily remove yourself to keep from getting removed.


 No.78127

>>78112

>Show me where the fuck that ever happened in any of your communist wonderlands.

Okay.

If I walk down to the park, there's a barbecue grill.

Full communism. :)

It's also the definition, if you're wondering.

>What a retard.

Okay, the bot can scan for a semantics list and pretend to be fascinated with a brand new word.

That bumps it up from one line of code {split(loadfile(filename),seperatorchar)[randint(0, lengthsplit(loadfile(filename),seperatorchar)} to, what... three to five lines of code?

You can do better.


 No.78132

>>77096

This literally proves my point that socialism rewards failure, stupidity and laziness through theft. I hope you liked your bailout because your grandchildren will be paying for it.

>>77098

>>77100

>>77104

You are correct sir!

>>77131

Real capitalism is what exists without any government interference (Some people think this is dangerous). It is what there was before government. The US was pretty capitalist pre 1920's. Certainly more so before the Federal Reserve and the era of endless fake money. If the money is fake then so is capital.


 No.78134

>>78122

>Just cause someone signed a contract doesnt mean there's an economic incentive to follow said contract.

Okay so theft is okay as long as there is economic incentive. Nice to know that on this supposedly libertarian board. The King will maintain his property with force just like all property is protected. This dynamic has always existed and will always exist.


 No.78136

>>78134

note that force is not by itself aggression


 No.78140

>>78134

The heart of libertarianism is the study of human action. Whether it's moral or not has nothing to do with the fact that humans will do what is or they perceive to be in their best interest. You really havent made it in their best interest for people to pledge loyalty to a king.

>has always existed and will always exist

>cause that's the way it's always been

Biggest non argument in the whole universe holy shit.

You dont even care about libertarian values, you just see a stateless society as a chance to set yourself up as a king, and Im explaining here why it wont work. Back to >>>/monarchy/ with ye. Begone.


 No.78144

>>78127

>If I walk down to the park, there's a barbecue grill.

And what will you be manufacturing on the barbecue grill that I paid for you to use? Moron. You're the kind of idiot that shits on the sidewalk because you think paid toilets are exploitation.


 No.78146

>>78106

Sure, but then in that scenario, you're still not imposing anything on them; you're preventing them from imposing anything on you.


 No.78147

>>78146

Correction: not preventing; stopping.


 No.78151

>>78140

>You dont even care about libertarian values,

I care about the morality of property rights more than you apparently. Human action dictates that if the cost of stealing is cheap then individuals will attempt to steal the property. That is what the military of the king stops.


 No.78152

>>78146

Of course, this whole arrangement is voluntary and moral.


 No.78153

>>78140

>Biggest non argument in the whole universe holy shit.

<The sun will rise tomorrow because it did yesterday

actually is an argument btw


 No.78154

>>78151

But the cost of the military stealing from you is cheap. The only way to make it expensive is to have more than one military, essentially creating a system over which you no longer have control


 No.78157

>>78154

>But the cost of the military stealing from you is cheap

I will only hire property respective libertarians into the military of course. By your logic a military cannot exist because they would always steal from their leaders. This is not the case. Pay them well and they won't rebel.


 No.78158

>>78157

You still havent created an incentive for them to not take your shit. At least the leader of a PMC does management functions. Whereas you? You're a middleman. Why does anybody need you?


 No.78159

>>78158

Its my PMC, I am the leader of it obviously.


 No.78160

>>78159

So you're not a king. You're a warlord.


 No.78162

>>78160

Kings control militaries all the time historically. The whole structure of feudalism is set up like one. The princes and kings were commanders on the battlefields.


 No.78164

>>78162

The purpose of your kingdom isnt to fight enemies abroad, it's to coerce resources out of the civilian populace and put down insurrection. i.e. warlord. Which now that I think about it applies to a number of historical kings.


 No.78165

>>78164

Which is what I will be using the military for of course. Securing my property. Its a defense force.


 No.78166

>>78164

>defending your land makes you a warlord

okay bud weird head you got there


 No.78167

>>78152

You have the right to expel trespassers.


 No.78168

>>78167

And defend against renters of land who attempt to steal it with force.


 No.78181

What you guys are arguing over is really about where governance gains legitimacy. Through force or title? Title conferred by whom? That was solved in ancient times by divine right of kings which relies on the legitimacy of the church or at least people's willingness to accept their right to confer title. Then in turn the King in a feudal society can give titles to other nobles whom owe him fidelity. The king still owned the land because he gave and could take back title to those lands. That is how they controlled their armies. Of course the king played one lord against the others to keep them from getting rid of him.

The beauty of America was that we created governance by the will of the people. Declaration of Independence. Heavily derived from the writings of John Locke and the idea of natural law and that all men were created equal which rejected the divine right of kings. Private ownership is derived from wealth gained by the work of your hands. Your own body being your first property granted to you by God.

Ultimately all authoritarians must maintain power through aggression. Mao for instance said that, "Power comes from the barrel of a gun." (not original Chinese.) If your society doesn't believe in a divine spark in humanity or a creator or that human life is fundamentally precious it is never a big step till people are being murdered for little or no reason and there is no respect for the property of others.

Government is entirely about belief. Government doesn't actually exist in three dimensional reality. It is all conceptual and about belief. That is why the belief systems of those involved are important.

Government doesn't exist within three dimensional reality? Yeah, show me one. Courthouse? That's a building. Police officer? A mind control victim wearing a costume. Government is a mind control system. When it fails to control the mind it acts against the body.

Can people live without it? Hell, I don't think so. No. Probably not in any great number. Why? People are flawed fallen creatures. Without a 'moral people' as they used to say, freedom doesn't work well. People will take advantage of each other, steal, rape, murder. I think that the anarchists are awfully starry eyed with their concept of the human soul. Somalia. That's anarchy. No thanks.


 No.78183

>>78181

Badnarik has videos about the constitution that talk about the constitution on youtube. Good to watch. About 6 hours of lecture on complex issues but it will set you free or at least show you how you aren't.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Badnarik


 No.78184

>>78110

>Capitalism built the internet Komrade.

>DARPA

lel, guess government spending can be capitalist after all

military network created because of the soviet ballistic threat is capitalism, huh

NASA is capitalism even tho it was created to bridge the gap with the soviets, because muh free gabidalism appeared limpdick so you need a special government agency to do the fucking job


 No.78185

>>78153

Just because the sun came up yesterday doesn't mean it will tomorrow. There are circumstances beyond anybody's control that could affect that… mmm, dramatically. Unlikely. We all plan on things continuing as they have been. Otherwise what would we do? That is why we will never know that a nuke is coming. Never know that an asteroid is about to hit. Why? You'll never hear the shot that kills you. Sort of liberating.


 No.78186

>>78184

that bugged me about his post too, actually, but everything else is sound

although to say darpa invented the internet is a gross oversimplification


 No.78187

>>78186

Darpa invented the TCPIP protocol. Capitalism BUILT the internet.


 No.78188

>>78181

>Why? People are flawed fallen creatures.

lel, great explanation mate

original sin prevents people from entering the kingdom of freedom

they just don't appreciate ideals of freedumbs and rationalism

you libers are complete retards

your retarded preacher Mises bitched about the end of civilization in the 30s and how masses are drawn to communist ideas because they're filthy commoners who can't appreciate this new wonderful capitalist truly rational order

sheep is too dumb to think, so we need to win the support of shepherds

t. Mises


 No.78189

>>78188

I believe in human potential. I just keep find them lacking in sufficient voltage. Lots of evidence around the world to prove that people are selfish and violent by nature. Every now and then they surprise you and act out of true altruism and kindness. I would much rather believe in something and be wrong than believe in nothing and be right.


 No.78194

>>78184

Everybody knows that Nasa is a propaganda wing of the military space program. Just imagine what the real shit looks like, Komrade. LOL. The Soviet space program had some SPECTACULAR fails that they suppressed because they didn't want to look 'weak'. Now you can watch a documentary about it on Amazon for nothing if you have prime. See that's the thing. The Soviet Union is in the dustbin of history. You are promoting a system that we all KNOW is a failure. Stupid. Hell, the Russians don't even want what you are selling. Try to get them to go back to the way things were. Stupid. Arguing for communism is like digging rotten meat out of the trash.


 No.78200

>>78194

Call me a narcissist but I think this is totally memeworthy.

>Arguing for communism is like digging rotten meat out of the trash.


 No.78217

>>78033

If you're an absolute dick head I don't think anyone is going to sell land to you. Especially if the contract says "you may remain on the land as long as you follow my word as law or I'll chuck you in the ocean.". I think they'd rather just have their land and freedom.


 No.78220

>>78200

seriously. I want to print T-shirts.


 No.78222

>>78200

It's useless even according to what the commies believe. History is linear, disregard all previous failures of Socialism. That's just muh dialectics in action or Capitalist fake news. The revolution is inevitable. There will be gibsmedats.


 No.78242

TIL that capitalism is when the government does stuff.


 No.78253

File: 9e4bee9e4ca055b⋯.png (112.36 KB, 1981x861, 283:123, asda342sd.png)

>>77943

> Guns are in every country.

t.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview_of_gun_laws_by_nation

> I can't afford "private" insurance anymore

lmao you debunked yourself

>No data has been able to show that the FDA has actually had a positive impact on drug safety

Oh g od, rothbardian autism, your free market god has no empirical evidence. hurr durr what is flint

> medical problems in the USA are clearly attributable to government interference

HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN EVERY EUROPEAN COUNTRY RETARD?? STATE HEALTHCARE = MORE ACCESS + LESS COSTS

Literally every European country is superior to the US in every way. You have stockholm syndrome, or a rich daddy who NEETsits you.


 No.78254

>>78253

>Flint

You mean because the local government decided to use the Flint river instead which was polluted and as a result fucked everyone over in that city? Truly it's the free market's fault and not the government.


 No.78260

>>78254

Yeah, flint. Where the government owned monopoly collected money from citizens for decades and refused to replace the lead pipes. Just a wonderful example of horrible government run crap. I wonder if Democrats have been running flint for decades. Even better the assholes wouldn't let people drill wells and use them instead.


 No.78263

>>78217

>"you may remain on the land as long as you follow my word as law or I'll chuck you in the ocean.".

In AnCap almost every living arrangement will come with a long list of requirements Similar to todays low level laws


 No.78273

>>78222

ML still has shit to do with the left.


 No.78317

>>78253

>cites gun laws, completely ignoring the entire point being made

Ok buddy.

>lmao you debunked yourself

Ignoring the part where I pointed out that it was a direct consequence of the ACA. I mean, do you ever read an entire sentence?

>your free market god has no empirical evidence

You mean aside from the unprecedented reductions in poverty, superior performance of market institutions, and absolutely consistent failure of every single government program ever?

> hurr durr what is flint

You mean the place where the leftist government have been using the state-monopolized utilities to poison the population for years, and has actively prosecuted people who try to bring in free market solutions? I'm fascinated to see how you try to turn this into a point in your favor.

>HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN EVERY EUROPEAN COUNTRY RETARD??

As a perfect example of what I'm talking about. They pay way too much for their healthcare through taxes, available procedures are extremely limited, and wait times are third-world terrible. 13 hours waiting in the ER is unacceptable. Having to wait a month for the next available appointment with your doctor is unacceptable. Your glorious communist European health care is a bureaucratic murder pit.

>STATE HEALTHCARE = MORE ACCESS + LESS COSTS

Except that that's exactly the opposite of the truth.

>Literally every European country is superior to the US in every way.

Fucking astonishing. And you say I'm the one wallowing in delusions? Look; I'm already on record here complaining about how the US is fucking things up, but it takes a special kind of Euroboo to make that kind of wild claim. It's one thing that you're stepping on your own ass with these backward attempts at arguments, but this is a whole new level of sad. I mean, holy shit, dude. Try and dial back your sperg-o-meter a notch or two.


 No.78318

>>78317

> They pay way too much for their healthcare through taxes

Actually, debt. I should've said debt. They get to pretend they're not paying too much by putting it off for later.


 No.80959

>>77938

>lolsperg this much in denial


 No.80960

File: 80518aee767b104⋯.png (441.59 KB, 3000x2250, 4:3, healthcare.png)

>>78317

>You mean aside from the unprecedented reductions in poverty,

growth of welfare state, and result of nonfreemarket ordoliberal statism

>You mean the place where the leftist government have been using

as a result of austerity / cuts in funding, which are liberatarian at its core

> They pay way too much for their healthcare through taxes

THEY PAY LESS THAN AMERICANS YOU NIGGER RETARD DUMBSHIT

>available procedures are extremely limited, and wait times are third-world terrible.

http://www.drsforamerica.org/blog/the-waiting-times-myth

>muh breedoms USA numba one

sure thing mutt, here some footage of you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzVqJPkiul0


 No.80989

It works fine for tax havens.


 No.81397

>>76981

It is gay.


 No.81400

>>80960

>growth of welfare state

The wealthiest per capita countries tend to have a higher EFI rating.

>THEY PAY LESS THAN AMERICANS YOU NIGGER RETARD DUMBSHIT

Non-sequitur. OCED countries' spending per capita has continued to increase under public healthcare. This is not sustainable in the long-term without rationing.

>blogpost

You failed to read this part:

>"but relatively shorter waiting times to be seen at the ER, see a specialist, and have elective surgery."


 No.81438

>>80960

Foreigners like you shouldn't even be allowed to own computers, much less use the internet.


 No.81499

nothing really, I'd vouch for a Geosyndicalist policy in its place with all seriousness.




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