/libertypol/ - Libertarian General

What do you mean by third positionists?

>>128
Ah. To be honest, while these diagrams are handy for infographics and stuff, I don't really see their practical use. I've never needed to pull up a picture or a web page to explain libertarianism to someone. I just say, "fiscally conservative, socially liberal, let me show you some examples." That usually gets into a conversation where I can get more specific and still hold their attention without their eyes glazing over like day-old donuts. What exactly are these used for?

Personally I prefer the square model to the left/right one.

>>128
I don't think this diagram, nor the square-shaped one, is particularly useful. In my eyes it comes down to three basic options. Are people left alone to develop a hierarchy, as people in the absence of state interference inevitably do? Does the state enforce a hierarchy with certain rules with the aim of making 'the right decisions' for people and eliminating the messiness and inevitable mistakes and fuckups that the first option creates? Or does the state enforce a lack of hierarchy, as is something that only force can do, with the aim of making things more equal and eliminating the unequal outcomes that result from the first and second options?

It isn't a perfect system but I think this triangular approach manages to capture the general differences between political stances fairly well, without making too much space for nonexistent stances, and/or pretending a stance is something that it isn't. The biggest impact of this really is to acknowledge that libertarian socialism doesn't exist - that a society can either be libertarian, in which case whatever culture it takes on is outside the realm of politics, or it can be socialist, in which case it is not in any way libertarian.

>>128

>image

You have corporatism confused with corporatocracy. Your description of fascism includes "class separation based on race and cultural identity," which can occur in any society. The distinction between Stalinism and other variants of communism are really not that clear, as there is a continuous spectrum of levels of state control in various communist countries, and Stalin was definitely not the worst one. The range would extend from Khmer Rouge at one end to maybe Tito's Yugoslavia at the other.

The biggest problem, though, is how extremely skewed this is in a left-positive direction. The most moderate forms of communism still have more state control than the most extreme forms of fascism.

I will grant you that there is no perfect way to do this, and there will always be failings due to the limitations of a chart like this, and the degree of subjective judgment that goes into it.

Where exactly would Tradionalism fit in here? Like Traditional Conservatism, people who are today called neo-traditionalists?

>>223
Uh man, speaking as a Libertarian Socialist… Communism does not give you personal freedom. It removes a lot of your basic rights… (funny how a socialist hates Communism.