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/loli/ - Lolis

Lolis are Love, Lolis are Life

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>log in on a regular basis
>board still expires for some reason

File: 1451439991798.png (161.5 KB, 996x1080, 83:90, 1383593853081.png)

 No.34692

Does the whole concept of "Its art, not one is being harmed" feel untrue?

I'm not talking in a SJW way, I'm talking about if any actual children were involved in the making of it.

I wanted to draw lolicon for myself. I drawn pictures of adult women all the time. But I feel that simply copying lolicon isn't good enough. I want to know where THEY get their references from but things started to get fishy.

Look at how detailed a lot of these artists can be with lolicon. Especially in the small breast size. Adult flat chests and developing breasts are not exact. You can look at tons of flat women on google(or bing) but they don't have the same shape with the ones shown on Lolicon.

It doesn't help that there ARE artists who do use the real thing for their work. Hell Natis is right on the front page.

Theres medical pictures that show developing breasts but even those are pretty unhelpful and don't give the exact detail because they obviously weren't designed to be used for fap material.

I can even imagine now that people will tell me to go use real legal nudes which only supports my point. If Lolicon was as safe as people keep spouting out than why should I do something like that?

If someone wants to prove me wrong by all means do so.

 No.34700

it's called studying anatomy. Have you ever looked through guides for drawing the human figure? Hell, any good artist has to know what's going on under the clothing to know how it should flow across the body. Drawing doesn't consist of tracing pictures of exactly what it is you're depicting, but using your understanding of proportions, gesture, and biomechanics to render a character.


 No.34701

Are you implying that you have to look at something for real in order to imitate it in art?

Leaving aside for a moment that that's demonstrably untrue, are you implying that the use of actual images as reference is the same thing as abuse?

>I'm not talking in a SJW way

Nigger please.


 No.34702

We have enough of these shit tier pseudo intellectual threads that are nothing but circular arguing and SJW bait.


 No.34708

File: 1451453792802.jpg (83.58 KB, 509x501, 509:501, CWSBaKhUAAAlPGH.jpg)

Don't be coy, fellow ロリコン. Tell us what you REALLY think.


 No.34712

Even if we assume that you're right about everything you say, which you're not, there's already a massive supply of pictures you can use for reference, it does not create a need for new ones to be taken, and new ones are being taken by 12-13 year olds on their own and uploaded to the internet to attentionwhore completely regardless of whether you want to "study" them or not.


 No.34715

not this shit again


 No.34716

0/10


 No.34725

>"You can imagine people telling you to use the real thing."

Have people actually said to you "Hey just go find the real thing." Or are you one of those tumble psychos who keeps day-nightmaring about a perceived fantasy about how people are until you belive that is the truth?

Also, your argument is the same one used by any tyrannical group trying to restrict or censor anything. "Well, it *might* be used in this way, therefore we should punish everyone with a tangential connection." Rather than just the people who actually use it like that.

Also you are a pedophile, as you seem to draw all your assumptions based on how *you* feel. If you are worried you may cross that line, seek psychiatric help.


 No.34726

File: 1451481333115.jpg (18.86 KB, 460x230, 2:1, are3Y8d_460s_v1.jpg)

who the fuck cares


 No.34727

>>34692

In my opinion having sex with a real human being old or underage is far worse than fapping to loli…

Reasons.

1. Population crisis

2. Rampant STD's.

3. Women can't be trusted. Especially now that women are banking on false rape claims and alimony in courts.

4. Society shames any fetish men have that doesn't involve middle aged, and obese women.

5. Religion is bullshit insanity and has and always will be used as leverage to make marriage between people a way to shame single men with different sexual preferences. Again more male shaming tactics.

6. Women are just fucking jealous of their past pre-18 selves.

7. Taking needless risks with real women is retarded in today's economic crisis and goes against pure common sense. If you fall for women and constantly compliment them when they are not around. Your a fucking pussy slave just waiting to be the next runner up of a bitch who says "I'm ready to settle down" after her vag has been through battle of bunker hill.

8. If 1-7 didn't wake you up you need to just mercy kill yourself.


 No.34729

File: 1451484335832.webm (4.98 MB, 1920x1080, 16:9, red pill redneck pussy wh….webm)

>>34727

>3. Women can't be trusted. Especially now that women are banking on false rape claims and alimony in courts.

>7. Taking needless risks with real women is retarded in today's economic crisis and goes against pure common sense. If you fall for women and constantly compliment them when they are not around. Your a fucking pussy slave just waiting to be the next runner up of a bitch who says "I'm ready to settle down" after her vag has been through battle of bunker hill.

really nigga? i mean dont get me awful women are terrible, just avoid the crazy ones. most of them are so broken in the head that they can be easily manipulated. If you REALLY hate women that much, idk fuck a dude. masculinity not your thing? fuck a non-op tranny, as it turns out the ones that pass the best also quite often happen to be the least crazy ones, just avoid the attention whore kind their fucked.


 No.34736

>>34692

N_01…never used real photos as reference for loli. He has been drawing since he could hold a pencil to paper.

There have been people that have asked for commissions offering portraits of their family members and he refused them. He takes a lot of pride in being able to draw from his mind.

Growing up he used muscle magazines…anatomy books…porn magazines. He went to school for a brief period for animation. This was all in the early 90's to 2000's.

I am here as his younger sister and I have seen him sketch out and draw the final piece in one sitting. There were times when I would wake up in the middle of the night to find him drawing like a madman…with head phones on and one light in the next room. He is amazing at what he does but he has never used real child references.

He is currently behind bars due to excessive alcohol abuse and being misled by someone he held dear. He went years drawing Loli without looking up rl cp. However during a dark period in his life he threw himself into an alcohol suicidal stupor he looked up and downloaded cp…he explains it all here on his personal blog.

http://johnstonblackhorsetheoneandonly.blogspot.com/2015/09/johnston-blackhorse-one-and-only-part-1.html

You don't have to use real references. My brother always told me practice practice and a lot more practice. It takes work to get where he is as an artist. I have thought of drawing loli as well but time will tell. And when he gets out IT IS ON! Believe that ;)


 No.34738

>>34727

Thanks for the laugh I needed that today. Yeah women are pretty bad and that's coming from a woman ;) but actually…both sexes are pretty bad LMAO!


 No.34742

File: 1451492908679.png (52.02 KB, 439x230, 439:230, mgtow kike.png)

>>34727

Gee, I wonder who might be behind this post.


 No.34769

Retarded anti thread. Board too slow to hope for dubs, but I'm a dreamer.


 No.34775

>>34726

>>34712

>Proving his point

Good job :)


 No.34779

>>34775

What's the point?


 No.34780

>>34725

>Have people actually said to you "Hey just go find the real thing.

Actually, yes. There are some that have

>Also, your argument is the same one used by any tyrannical group trying to restrict or censor anything.

Now you are just putting words in my mouth about things I have not said.

>Also you are a pedophile, as you seem to draw all your assumptions based on how *you* feel.

That makes no fucking sense at all. There has been proof of lolicon artist using child porn for their art so its not how I "feel". I have no clue what you are trying to say.

>>34701

Yes because other alternatives don't seem to match up well in lolicon art.


 No.34781

all you had to do is to read this one single line properly

>Its art, not one is being harmed

but then, i never expect any intelligence from OP


 No.34782

File: 1451547921328.jpg (43.1 KB, 441x442, 441:442, 1449283482187.jpg)

>>34692

>>34780

So what you're trying to imply is that since a good number of loli artists use real photos as reference, loli is inherently no different than real CP, and therefore should be treated as such ethically and pehaps legally. That it?


 No.34784

>>34692

You should also know that, until just a couple years ago, possession of CP (as opposed to creation and distribution) in japan was not illegal.


 No.34788

>>34782

He's not wrong, it should be treated exactly the same legally as real CP. Both ought to be legal.


 No.34789

>>34788

Finally, there are those dubs. I've been looking for these.


 No.34790

Personally, I hate this whole discussion (i.e. talking about this matter). And that's because it's entirely hypothetical.

First, effectively no-one can prove that any lolicon artist actually used child porn as a reference. You will say they can; but effectively no-one can prove either many other things considered 'proved' by public opinion, e.g. that humans are intelligent beings or that Barack Obama isn't a muslim terrorist. It's relatively easy to prove (though not to disprove) that some lolicon artist owned/watched child porn. It's relatively hard to tell whether he/she's actually used it as reference. This point is somewhat weak, but it's worth thinking about it.

Second, as it has already been pointed out in other threads here, there is no (logically explainable) causal relationship between watching CP and the abuse of the depicted child in this direction. That is, by watching CP you don't hurt that child again (though it's true that the availability of the material does 'perpetuate' the harm already done), at least not individually. Another weak point when it comes to real CP, but lolicon, if based on real CP at all, adds yet another layer of indirection that breaks the chain of causality.

Which leads to Third: After all, you never know what some artist had in mind when creating a certain piece of art. I'm not an expert on art, but I use the term in its broadest sense here so that any drawing can be considered art. And all of this is also true for pieces of music and so on. You never know what that person thought about when drawing/composing/… that drawing/music/… so why should the art be in any way linked to those thoughts? E.g. some say Lewis Carroll was a paedophile; while that cannot be proved anymore (and we don't know what he actually might have done to children), would you knowing that call Alice in Wonderland child porn or even a bad book? What about paintings created by murderers in prison? I'd rather say that the art's integrity doesn't depend on the circumstances of its creation or the integrity of the creator. (So how you perceive lolicon shouldn't be mixed with that, it should be based on the art 'as is'.)

From the separation of concerns viewpoint, I'd even say that it's entirely the artist's problem or responsibility, not that of the consumer. If you consume something that turns out to have been produced in an illegal way, you'd want the producer to be prosecuted, not yourself, wouldn't you? Current legislation works somewhat differently when it comes to CP, but in theory, that's what you'd expect. E.g. if you purchase some clothes and then learn that the production included child labour, you'd expect the company that produced the clothing to be prosecuted (if at all), not yourself. Many people say for moral reasons you shouldn't even buy clothes from companies known to employ child workers. Some people don't care. But even if you care, you'd expect the producing company to be responsible for designing their production in such a way that it's (morally and) legally unproblematic. You'd not expect yourself to be responsible for the company producing in an unproblematic way. (Especially if no company does that.)

It's the same with lolicon: It's the responsibility of the artist to create the art in a legally immaculate way, and it's the consumers' perfect right to expect a sound production (although the consumer doesn't need to trust the producer…). I exclude the term 'moral' here because we cannot always consider ourselves moral apostles.

Lolicon is considered fishy by the public anyway so if you're a consumer who cares about your reputation you should anyway be as careful as if you were watching actual CP. Apart from that you shouldn't suspect that every better artist used CP to train or create his/her works; such considerations just waste time. If your moral ideals require it, just stop consuming works by artists you came to know to be using CP as reference. Universal suspicion, however, isn't helpful.

If you're an artist, though, be aware it's your very responsibility towards your clients to create your art in a clean way. Don't moan about flat chests etc. being so hard to draw. Use your imagination! I'd expect artists to have plenty of that. Often it's not that important to meet reality but rather to meet the client's expectations.

TLDR:

Why care if you're a consumer? It's the artist's responsibility, not yours.


 No.34805

>all these false equivalence fallacies


 No.34808

Here's a point to consider:

A person witnesses the rape of a child, goes home and proceeds to draw the rape that was just committed. Should it be illegal to draw that? Should it be illegal to view it?

Now let me alter the wording.

A person witnesses the murder of somebody, goes home and proceeds to draw the murder that was just committed. Should it be illegal to draw that? Should it be illegal to view it?

Both of these have a victim. Nobody can consent to being murdered, either. Yet one is illegal to draw, the other isn't.


 No.34809

>>34782

>>34784

I'm just glad that the discussions have finally started, particularly relating to Canon Law and those who cling to the concept of thoughts = actions. Depictions of sexual activity or what somebody might consider wrong should not be treated criminally. This world has crept close enough to a total lockdown/prison/police state as it is. Now it's time to roll back the other way towards freedom and responsibility.

>>34790

Well said. I'm reminded of an interview with David Cronenberg: "There's nothing a director shouldn't be able to show, but there are many things a director shouldn't have to show." This is guy whose films were often mercilessly ripped up by the Canadian version of the MPAA. One sure way to ruin everything is to legislate by personal taste and mandate one's warped version of morality rather than allowing people to live and learn as responsible people. The #1 question I'd love to hear asked more often is…how long will we remain children? Naive, gleefully ignorant, and easily victimized?

Finally, it pleases me to see yet another TL;DR tag. Is that just giving a shot out or are you the guy I should thank for a great YT channel?


 No.34810

>>34808

You point out one of countless great inconsistencies. War is good for business and politicians which is why beheading vids are still shown to get people emotional and hungry for revenge. But child rape is wrong except when it's good for ratings ie Nancy Grace and the never ending Jon Benet Ramsey case. (BTW her mother killed her, NOT some unidentified pedo)


 No.34812

>>34810

>War is good for business

Reminds me of a quote from MGS4.

>Otacon: I know what you're thinking, but Drebin does have a point. The world depends on war - on the war economy. Can you imagine what would happen if war just disappeared overnight?

And technology such as computers exist because of War. (E.g. Enigma decoding)


 No.34818

>>34808

Murder victims don't sexually compete with asspained feminists. Children do, alive or dead, picture or real.


 No.34819

>>34818

Shit let me rephrase that, children only compete alive which is why pics of dead kids don't piss them off at all. Draws an even bigger parallel to murder viewing. Apologies, I just woke up.


 No.34821

just use purenudism for loli ref. U can google imagem it then i suppose its legal.


 No.34825

>>34821

This is also good advice for drawfags.


 No.34826

>>34825

>>34821

meh. i'll stick to freenet sauces


 No.34827


 No.34828

File: 1451615819065-0.jpg (6.62 KB, 236x251, 236:251, 0cccbff29d3e0845607753d49b….jpg)

File: 1451615819066-1.jpg (7.1 KB, 236x354, 2:3, 4bb691cf423c3dd0e51372166f….jpg)

There's always classic sculptures

>>34727

That's the second time today I've seen mention of a population crisis, I don't know about you but I'm not in fucking china


 No.34829

>>34828

Please ignore the Jew unless you have the means to holocaust him at the ready.


 No.34833

THE ULTRAVIOLENCE OF VIDEO GAMES LIKE DOOM WILL TURN YOUR CHILDREN INTO SERIAL KILLERS


 No.34834

>>34833

This is true.


 No.34837

Blah blah blah you did love your life.


 No.34839

>>34821

>>34825

This is the point I'm talking about. I shouldn't have to use these photos.

Plus even if they are "legal" then how is it not wrong. Why is this person taking photos of these naked girls? And why does one have to be in lolicon to accept this. Pictures like this entirely ruin the notion that lolicon has no people involved.


 No.34840

>>34839

you are:

1) ignoring everyone pointing out you don't have to use a real reference to draw lolicon, or anything else for that matter. you've carefully picked out people who seem to support your point while ignoring the reasons behind it or people arguing in the contrary.

2) utterly failing to grasp just how much mental dissonance is required to make the leap from a drawing using a picture as a reference in whole or in part, to actual harm being done to an actual person. people involved? what the fuck do you even think that means?

3) not realizing that using nudism pictures (which are not sexualized (which is the exact reason they're legal in the first place)) is exactly the same as using a medical anatomical reference. do you think "nudist" pictures include anything where someone happens to be nude?

4) inferring from a suggestion to use a reference that lolicon is drawn from a reference by default. are you just in this thread for confirmation bias?

5) probably a troll, why am i even fucking bothering


 No.34855

>>34839

>How are naked girls not wrong

Literal faggot, right here. Law cuck at the very least.


 No.34858

File: 1451673641248.jpg (64.29 KB, 600x576, 25:24, IMG_20150902_111305.jpg)

>>34839

>I shouldn't have to use these photos.

Then don't.


 No.35725

>>34839

You are a fucking retard that has bought into modern medias' twisted concept of morality.

Do us all a favor and remove yourself from the premises.

Also, we should motion for the BO/mod (If either are alive still) to only allow for one "is loli ok? is it pedo? " etc meta thread at a time.




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