/m/ - Mecha and Toku

They like it because they watched it on Toonami when they were 13, yes.

Disclaimer: I've watched like 5 episodes of Gundam ever.

And why do people give beam spam a hard time it at least makes sense you have lots of guns and the computer locks on to lots of targets. Firing two beams spinning around and everyone dies is way worse.

you could right now be watching the original mobile suit gundam

>>3186
>its easily worse than SEED

BULLSHIT:
>better mechanical designs, thanks to Katoki
>VASTLY better character designs
>better animation
>better characters (Zechs, Treize)

>>3186
In my opinion: yes. Here was my experience with Gundam Wing.

I didn't have cable growing up, but I watched as many episodes of Wing and later G as I could. The last several years I kept checking Amazon hoping they would get some of the DVDs at reasonable prices. During the summer I found out that Bandai stopped making them years ago, and that's why the entire series on DVD would cost me over $100. So I started looking into torrenting. I knew dick about Gundam as a whole - my only experience was again with Wing and G, but I downloaded as much Gundam as I could find (0079, Zeta, Victory etc). I was pretty amped to start with Wing, I figured I'd move on to the others later.

The first few episodes were okay, things started to get a little more exciting as the other pilots hit the scene (even though their suits kept getting destroyed - which I now realize was a cheap ploy to sell more merch/gunpla). But about 30 or 40 episodes in I was sick of it. The goal of the pilots was constantly shifting (some may like that, it only annoyed me). But the thing that slowly beat the fun out of it for me, was Hero and Zechs constantly brooding. Watching episodes was starting to feel like a chore, I had to keep telling myself I was almost done.

I decided to take a short break and watch an episode or two of 0079 (since they take place in different timelines I figured it wouldn't be confusing). I was hooked. Yeah Amuro could be a whiney bitch, but his character eventually grew. I finished the original series, 0080, 08th MS and am almost done with Zeta.

I still haven't gone back to Wing.

>>3218
>Well that's more of a personal taste
That's an argument that applies to anything. One can deem Seed better over anything else because he simply prefers it better.

>>3231
I'm not sure what they need to produce first, some Zanscare HGs or the grunts from Wing.

Get your shit in gear Bandai!

>>3186
I'm 15 episodes in and I like it so much better than Seed. The characters are pretty cool, the suits feel lighter and the world is more interesting.

>>3186
I don't think Wing is all that great or even really "good", but I definitely think it beats out SEED. The mech designs are way cooler overall, the fights actually had something approaching tension (except when it was just named pilots versus Leos, but at least none of the protagonists were good enough to cruise through all their fights whole holding back immensely), and the villain's - or at least Zechs's - motivation was surprisingly believable.

I also think the character designs were way better. Definitely less generic than the stuff we saw in SEED.

Nostalgia factors heavily into the praise it gets, but I can understand that considering it was a lot of peoples' first exposure to mecha.

Oh yeah, and I can derive a certain level of amusement from how incredibly edgy Heero is.

So i finished the show I quite enjoyed the last episode but everything leading up to it failed to excite me. I'll watch EW for the sake of completion.

>>3310
Endless Waltz surprised the shit outta me with how cool it was. It's definitely the only thing set in the Wing universe that I would ever consider "genuinely good". Plus, it has that one ludicrously awesome quote that's way too good for the Wing universe and I won't spoil for you.

"History is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace, and revolution continue on forever."

>>3312
It's been years since I've watched Endless Waltz. I really should force myself through the last dozen episodes I have left on wing just for EW.

>>4098
Beam-rotors son.

I tried watching the first episode again recently. I don't know if it was just a garbage dub or what, but the dialogue is hilarious. Characters will say things only for other characters to ignore them and say other shit completely unrelated to what they were talking about. It's like when someone says something really awkward and no one really knows what to say, so no one says anything until they change the topic.

>Crew A: Lt. Zechs! Enemy sighted!
>Zechs: Ah yes, it looks like the colonies have finally played their hand.
>Crew A:…
>Crew B:…
>Crew A:Shall we move to intercept?
>Zechs:Yes, let the fly fall into our web.

>>4440
It's a tragedy they wasted such an amazing suit on such a dumb series, much less as a grunt suit.

HGAC kit when

I think it's partly because of muh childhood.

Sure, Relena is the worst character and Heero has some derp moments, but most characters are alright. Hell, most - if not all characters - are better then the ones from SEED.

It also has egregious use of stock footage, but I can understand if it's to save money on production costs.

I rewatched the BD release a while ago and it's actually better then I remembered (understanding the story with 11 was hard, but 15 years later it makes much more sense).

>>4455
Worst character in the series. The only one worse than Wufei.

The worst part about eyebrowbitch was that everyone else acted like she wasn't a cackling psychotic.
"You could always shoot your long-lost brother…here…I HAVE A GUN YOU CAN USE."

Relena is pretty much the main character.
Think about it - all the pilots keep having their shit wrecked or at least pushed in by the opposition, but regardless of all of this we ALWAYS, ALWAYS end up going back to RELENA'S FUCKED UP LIFE.
People thinking Zechs was a Char clone are right, but even HE wasn't meant to be a major character aside from the fact HE'S THE MAIN CHARACTER'S BROTHER.

Would it have really mattered if Zechs hadn't been related to Relena? How much would it have changed the entire story of the series?
Treize was based as fuck, but why did he end up dying and Zechs live? BECAUSE ZECHS WAS RELATED TO THE MAIN CHARACTER, PLOT ARMOR.

Heero wasn't the main character, he was the supporting character that interacted with the main character - RELENA.

Why? Because Relena was the complete and total embodiment of the Gundam Fangirls that came after her, forcing herself into the drama of Gundam like a literal Mary Sue as all this other stuff was going on. She had everybody's attention and wound up with ALL THE GUNDAM PILOTS SIDING WITH HER.

FUCK Gundam Wing.

Wing sucks. People like it because of Toonami and boy band factor, it has more porn written about it by sad girls who smell like old fish than most anime. Also, morons who are into the angel gundam. Usually they have anime avatars that look nothing like them.

SEED sucks donkey cock, and is worse by the factor of being so fucking miserable. It has more cool mechanical designs, I fucking love Freedom and a ton of others. But goddamn the annoying weeaboo characters, the mechas that shoot unlimited planet-destroying energy beams for episodes on end when running out of energy is a theme of the show. Goddamn it's bad.

Go watch Gundam or 08th MS Team. There's some anime that generally doesn't suck.

Same here op, except i dropped that shit after 20 episode, couldn't stand watching anymore.
Story and characters were lame and gundams were nothing special.
Watch Turn A gundam instead.

The best part of Wing is the end when they copy Char's Counterattack because CCA was the best.

>>3186
Wing is a lot of things. Wing is overhyped, the designs of the gundams are universally uninspired, its romance angles are mostly bland and archetypal rather than actually coherent.

It is NOT worse than SEED. Heero might be so bland and boring that he's a non-character but at least he isn't ACTUALLY KILLED AND BROUGHT BACK. Trowa Barton may make me want to punch him with his aggressive self-dehumanization wangst, but at least he's not the FANTASTICALLY inneffective Aslun Zara who flip flops at least three times in each season between his marriage prospects, his attitude and the faction he fights for.

Zechs Marquis is a pretty good Char Expy, and they ruin him with Milliardo Peacecraft but he at least has a bit of character, unlike Rau La Creuset who is just boring and totally ambiguous in his morals and agenda until he does a generic 'kill'em all' plan. And Treize Kushrenada really does seem like a Speed Chess Master with a unique and interesting goal- to create a warrior utopia. Okay maybe it doesn't make sense but it's unique and interesting and competently presented. And the 'weapons are evil' plot culminating in the Virgo mobile dolls, which were actually threatening MP suits was a pretty good payoff at the end. As opposed to stock footage and shaky stills of 'non lethal' take downs from the beam-spamming final suits that take out two full armies on their own.

Wing a shit, debatable. SEED a shit, so much more a shit.

All this said, I still love the original Gundam series more than all the others, so it's not like I love Wing, it's just that I hate SEED much more.

>>5220
Actually I forgot all about Heero surviving blowing up his suit while he was effectively in it. I was thinking of Seed Destiny when Shinn, who was still the main character then, kills Kira in a roaring rampage of revenge kind of thing. Then Kira turns out to be alive. Fucking hated that. Heero surviving from his main-character shields is a moment you scream bullshit at the tv, but ultimately not so bad. Kira coming back is a moment you fucking rage at your television unless you're a pathetic, wretched, loathesome kira fan. The rest of those things are all not so bad (Okay I haven't watched ZZ so I can't speak to Leina surviving but it still was trying to be a more hopeful show than Z so it fit the themes of the series) because they fit into the shows they were in.

Kira and Mwu are both brought back to life after dying, when named character death happens. The shows aren't horribly hopeless, but they did have central themes of death and the costs of war. Consider now if Kira had died properly - there is suddenly no-one who stands against the wars that are going to happen. Lacus is devastated, angry, hurt and does not choose to take the eternal to the battlefield. The Archangel crew has lost their only MS pilot and their ship isn't that great against even a single squad, much less an army. Cagalli loses her brother and thus actually has reasons to be angry and depressed at the shit she goes through in the series as opposed to handling it like the capable monarch she's been painted as. And Aslun? Aslun believed kira was dead at this point, he plays out the same.

Where does that leave shin? Whatever you feel about him, he was the main character and at least had more emotional depth than Kira, and legitimate reasons to be the tortured wreck he was. So this puts Shinn in a position where his actions have consequences, where he is forced to understand why Kira did what he did in the past and to make his own decisions about whether to follow the Destiny Plan later or not. As opposed to just having every 'good guy' yell at him and every 'bad guy' try to help him. Maybe without Kira showing up again he actually doesn't lose faith in himself and believes in his capacity to change the world and goes to destroy the Destiny Plan's doohickey on his own, maybe he blows up his own Gundam in a nuclear fireball to echo his action of killing the bullshit magician who could do it without dying earlier? Maybe it's the only way he gets to be happy and iwth the people he loved, who are all dead anyway? Or maybe we actually do some more with Lunamaria Hawke and she pulls him back from this path and together they both destroy Destiny, because Shinn isn't reflexively shouting down every contentious thought at this stage, since he's not fucking looney.

Kira coming back wasn't a plot hole, it was SHIT writing. Fucking DROSS of the WORST sort.

>>5226
>Shinn kills Kira
No, he didn't.
The audience was just made to think he did by having Shinn stab the Freedom as the Tannhauser triggered a huge explosion when it hit the water.

You *thinking* they killed him != "ACTUALLY KILLED AND BROUGHT BACK"

>MUH SHINN
>main character
>lol emotional depth
pfahahaHAHAHAHAHA!
No.

>>5228
I didn't say Shinn was a GOOD character. No one in the show was, the writing was total garbage. And, again, he really was the main character at that time whether you like it or not.

The whole 'audience made to think' blah blah blah - would you honestly believe the writers had anything like a plan for this show? I didn't. I also don't accept that there was time for a nuclear reactor to shut down in that time. So- it looked like a kill, because it was supposed to look like a kill, because it was a kill until they decided it wasn't a kill. That's bad writing, that's a series without theme, purpose or direction. Destiny, you gotta agree is total garbage and pretty much irredeemable.

As for the emotional depth thing- yeah as much as we like to use jokes about it here, there was more to the character than horrendous goddamn crying. There was also enraged screaming, intolerable smugness, annoying naivete, imbecillic awe and bouts of manic obsession. The character did have more emotions than kira did even in SEED which was at least not total crap in the first half. What did Kira have? Kira had imbecillic surprise, whiny crying, and one bout of rage. That's all he had. In Destiny he has a sense of superiority more well-developed and explored than I've seen in a character in a long time. So that's how I mean 'more emotional depth'.

Now if you wanna argue about what the writers were thinking during interviews or shit later I'm just going to say: "they wrote this horrible fuckup with all these unlikable characters and lazy plots, I don't believe they actually had plans." And nothing you can say is actually going to demonstrate to me that they knew what they were doing with these things. I mean really, the reason they did the stock animation reuse was because the writers were chronically late in submitting what was supposed to happen to the drawing and animation crew. They really were making it up as they went.