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File: db7b2462ebe11d2⋯.jpg (63.33 KB, 561x785, 561:785, weak.jpg)


why are there pro-imperialist leftcoms ?

pic unrelated


File: 0eb8e259dc5590d⋯.jpg (46.91 KB, 640x455, 128:91, Brezhnev Assad.jpg)

Because being a left-com, like being a Trot, generally involves retaining a great deal of bourgeois ideology. You can appear as the most "radical" person in the whole world yet your politics still suck and are reactionary in practice.

That's how they are able to ridicule third world leaders as "tinpot dictators," or how they're able to justify supporting CIA-backed Islamists in places like Libya and Syria against "fascist regimes" while belittling the Soviet Union for promoting popular fronts against actual fascists like Hitler and Mussolini.

You might find this thing I wrote a while back of interest since it deals a bit with ultra-left posturing: https://www.reddit.com/r/communism/comments/63t8a6/on_accusation_that_assad_isnt_even_that_antius/

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It is almost impossible to determine what really happened here. While it was clearly a power play by Mao in the beginning, it did take on a real grassroots proletarian character through the independently formed Red Guard groups. And while it did focus on landlords, bourg teachers, and capital, it also was aimed at Mao's rivals.

Thus it was both a top-down order from Mao, and a true proletarian uprising.

But if it was a decentralized movement, why was it so easy for Mao to dissemble the movement and order the red guards to the countryside?

What does /marx think of this?

4 posts and 2 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.


File: ea431b6f4e56868⋯.jpg (886.41 KB, 3025x2181, 3025:2181, Bob Avakian spent decades ….jpg)


When I think of "anti-revisionist Maoists" what comes to mind is the RCPUSA, which (aside from its Bob Avakian cult) has a standard Maoist view of what happened in China: Mao was a great guy who wanted to prevent what happened in the USSR from happening in his own country; the Gang of Four were faithfully carrying out his policy; the "Three Worlds Theory" and other lameness in the 1970s was attributable to capitalist roaders led by Deng and Hua who ended up seizing power and overthrowing socialism.

The RCPUSA's book "And Mao Makes Five" was an influential defense of this view: http://www.bannedthought.net/China/MaoEra/GPCR/Mao5/AndMaoMakes5-Lotta-1978-All.pdf

As far as "Maoist-Third Worldists" types go, the Maoist Internationalist Movement staunchly defended of Stalin and Mao. The LLCO and similar folks definitely share the dismissive attitude toward Stalin that a lot of MLM folks have, and I do know that the LLCO seems to basically claim Mao fucked up during the "Lin Biao affair."



I think you're completely right comrade, I was conflating MTWs, who are honestly better described as Lin Biaoists then Maoists, with more traditional Maoists who came out of the 60's and 70's. Although I don't know to what degree those kinds of Maoists still exist, outside of RCPUSA, as well as remnants of that kind of anti-revisionism in orgs like FRSO and PSL. Aside from that, MLMs kind of seem all over the place to me, many of them seem indistinguishable from Ancoms, just Ancoms who've maybe read too much Postcolonial theory, Decolonial theory, World-Systems theory, and are a little too invested in a fetishized idea of the Global South, as well as the idea of the Vanguard party as an essentially paramilitary organization that wages guerilla combat. It's like Anarkiddies who read J. Sakai's Settlers.



Yeah I to have thought that MLM has a lot of ultra-left characteristics. You can't just legislate capitalism- it takes a radical shift in both the MoP and DotP. China definitely has a DotP and mixed ownership of the MoP with SOEs being prominent in the most important strategic sectors. Gotta have that dialectical materialist analysis, folks...

I'm in the PSL so I"m a little confused by your critique. The party is anti-revisionist in that we uphold the contributions of Stalin and Mao to the communist movement but we don't think that a restoration of capitalism occurred in the USSR in the '50s, likewise in the PRC in the '70s.



>The party is anti-revisionist in that we uphold the contributions of Stalin and Mao to the communist movement but we don't think that a restoration of capitalism occurred in the USSR in the '50s, likewise in the PRC in the '70s.

I think the WWP and PSL are unique, and have a very healthy tendency towards synthesizing different Marxist traditions, mixing ML, Maoist, and even Trot ideas together in a very fluid and creative manner, I think this comes from their origins as Marcyites. My only real point was that from what I've seen certain 60's and 70's Maoist ideas still exist among some WWP and PSL members, especially the older ones. But that kind of anti-revisionism can look very different from person to person and org to org, especially because these 60's Maoists didn't have a Soviet party line to fall in step with, so sometimes they'd be hardline oldschool MLs who denounced Khrechev and Brevhnev, but other times they'd take a much harder stance, accusing the USSR of "social fascism" and "social imperialism", the French group "Gauche prolétarienne" are a good example of Maoists who were so anti-Soviet that they were basically indistinguishable from Leftcoms in that regard. Google "Mao-Spontex"



*Khrushchev and Brezhnev

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Posted this at /leftypol/ but thought I might try here as well:

What exactly does being a Marxist-Leninist entail? Marxism + vanguard party + democratic centralism + analysis of imperialism as the higest stage of capitalism? The thing is, I basically agree with ML on paper, and I find many of the critiques of it to be absolute shit, but I'm still hesitant to actually call myself an ML. Genuine democracy, individual rights, personal liberties, the freedom to criticise your government, and such values are really important to me, but they usually aren't considered to have been to strong points of previous ML states. If we use the USSR as an example, there are three different positions ML's could take:

>The USSR was a genuinely democratic society, were people were free to criticise the government, individual rights were protected, etc.

>There was a lack of democracy, protection of individual rights, etc. in the USSR which was a serious flaw, but that was mainly due to the difficult circumstances under which the country developed.

>There was a lack of democracy, protection of individual rights, etc. in the USSR, but those things aren't really that important anyway. If dictatorship, authoritarianism and supression of individual rights and liberties is necessary for socialism, that's totally fine and will have to do.

Which position is most consistent with Marxism-Leninism? Which is most common among ML's?

Also, ML's are almost always labeled as being authoritarian (both by other leftists and by liberals). Do you reject that label, and in that case on what grounds? I know revolutions are inherently authoritarian, I've read that Engels quote, but I wouldn't say that I have an "authoritarian ideology".

I would really like to hear some thoughts on these sort of questions from an ML/MLM perspective.


File: 45ed44c9d04b749⋯.jpg (510.21 KB, 869x1200, 869:1200, Soviet power is a million ….jpg)

What Marxism-Leninism entails is basically what you described, yes.

As far as democracy and criticism in the USSR go I'd recommend you read this (it's by an American communist who lived in Moscow): https://archive.org/details/WorkingVersusTalkingDemocracy

Then, once you've read that, I'd recommend you check out the following work: https://archive.org/details/HumanRightsInTheSovietUnion

As for the "three different positions ML's could take," it's a mixture of the first and second. Even in the middle of the Great Purges, with so many people being arbitrarily arrested and executed on false charges, there was no shortage of criticism in the press of corruption and bureaucracy (which in fact fed into said purges), as noted in such works as http://b-ok.org/book/989260/2309c7 and http://b-ok.org/book/2489176/cdb3cb

The trend in Soviet society was for democracy (i.e. citizen involvement in the affairs of state and society) to increase as the decades went on.

No Marxist-Leninist would describe themselves as "authoritarian." I see no reason to use that term, as if the capitalist state does not rely on "authoritarian" methods to enforce its rule when required.

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Thanks for providing an insightful answer. I'll try to take a look at those books but I have a huge reading list already, and I read pretty slowly so I'm afraid it will be a while before I get to them. Could you perhaps summarize some of the stuff you find important in them?


>What exactly does being a Marxist-Leninist entail? Marxism + vanguard party + democratic centralism + analysis of imperialism as the higest stage of capitalism

intensely emotional defense of all the socialist states without nuance is the last part

>The thing is, I basically agree with ML on paper, and I find many of the critiques of it to be absolute shit, but I'm still hesitant to actually call myself an ML.

that's because you, correctly, understand that something is wrong with their analysis

The second position is that of Trotskyism and is the correct analysis.


File: 7b05c1f6550eb3f⋯.jpg (88.78 KB, 600x397, 600:397, Great Patriotic War.jpg)


You mention an "intensely emotional defense of all the socialist states without nuance" and then mention Trotskyism, since it presumably has a nuanced defense of what it calls "degenerated/deformed workers' state(s)."

And yet, Trotsky himself not only claimed that the "defense" of the USSR in the coming war required overthrowing its "bureaucracy," he made a ridiculous prophesy about what would happen if the USSR triumphed over Hitler *despite* this "bureaucracy":

>If this war provokes, as we firmly believe, a proletarian revolution, it must inevitably lead to the overthrow of the bureaucracy in the USSR and regeneration of Soviet democracy on a far higher economic and cultural basis than in 1918. In that case the question as to whether the Stalinist bureaucracy was a “class” or a growth on the workers’ state will be automatically solved. To every single person it will become clear that in the process of the development of the world revolution the Soviet bureaucracy was only an episodic relapse.

>If, however, it is conceded that the present war will provoke not revolution but a decline of the proletariat, then there remains another alternative: the further decay of monopoly capitalism, its further fusion with the state and the replacement of democracy wherever it still remained by a totalitarian regime. The inability of the proletariat to take into its hands the leadership of society could actually lead under these conditions to the growth of a new exploiting class from the Bonapartist fascist bureaucracy. This would be, according to all indications, a regime of decline, signalizing the eclipse of civilization. . . .

>The historic alternative, carried to the end, is as follows: either the Stalin régime is an abhorrent relapse in the process of transforming bourgeois society into a socialist society, or the Stalin régime is the first stage of a new exploiting society. If the second prognosis proves to be correct, then, of course, the bureaucracy will become a new exploiting class. However onerous the second perspective may be, if the world proletariaPost too long. Click here to view the full text.

File: 868495ba08939d0⋯.jpg (23.37 KB, 620x600, 31:30, commieok.jpg)


Could be great publicity, attract a few more people, radicalise some


attract who though? other 8chan posters?



yeah, better then nothing


No, this board has about 3 posts a day and I don't want /pol/ flooding it. Go to /leftypoll/


File: 461086b16189200⋯.gif (140.56 KB, 300x300, 1:1, 60b321ca94c4d0b1e0e98f4476….gif)

No, it'll just bring negative attention.

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Why do I get 404 when trying to open the sticky thread?


File: 33d4863b53b5bee⋯.jpg (76.74 KB, 480x270, 16:9, Great Depression.jpg)

8Chan is wonky like that due to all the stuff involving their server.

File: 2bc7841a66ab7fe⋯.png (36.72 KB, 200x199, 200:199, ETA.png)


Hello comrades,

In a discussion I had with a Spanish colleague (left-leaning but still dipped in bourg ideology), the ETA organisation was brought up and my colleagues take was that "they were super useful in the fight against Franco's dictatorship but went on to become a full-on terrorist group that kills civilians by the hundreds".

What is /marx's opinion on ETA? Are they a righteous Marxist-Leninist independence movement or a revolutionary group that lost it's cause? Also, any non-bourg resources on ETA would be highly appreciated.


What remains of ETA is a pure nationalist organization.

>"they were super useful in the fight against Franco's dictatorship but went on to become a full-on terrorist group that kills civilians by the hundreds

it's pretty acurate. If you want to read about a real marxist urban guerrilla on Spain check GRAPO or FRAP, even today their members are almost all in jail.

File: 4516f07137fc1f2⋯.jpg (42.74 KB, 330x499, 330:499, Dark Money.jpg)


So, I made this thread on /leftypol/ and very few people took it seriously or had much interest in it. Basically, I wanted to debunk the idea that the Right-wing is counter-cultural or somehow opposed to the Western liberal Establishment. Let's talk about the right-wing portion of the bourgeoisie, what drives it, what are its aims, how does it achieve its goals what networks do they run, how influential are they and their propaganda, who funds them etc.

Some workers are under the impression that neo-fascists waiving the protectionist/welfarist/anti-immigrant banner are pro-worker let's show the evidence that the working class under fascism and other right-wing "anti-globalist" electoral is still enslaved as bad, if not worse then it is under liberal capitalism.

Let's talk about the right-wing shills who push anti-Marxist ideas and are in fake opposition to centrist and pseudo-leftist anti-Marxist shills. It doesn't have to be limited to specific people or movements but the general nature of their propaganda and how it is fallacious.

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File: d50ed47daa18843⋯.jpg (182.7 KB, 1000x1414, 500:707, __kaname_madoka_saber_and_….jpg)

I found an article that critiques Abenomics from an economic point of view:


>...over one year later, it looks as though Abenomics is failing, at least the Japanese people. ... The Japanese yen has fallen in value and the Japanese stock market has boomed, but Japan’s economy continues to crawl along. Japan’s economy has expanded at no more than 1% a year since the Great Recession ended. Under Abe, the growth rate has risen to 1.8%, but still no better than before the crisis.

>inflation has risen as a deliberate policy of the government, designed to ‘stimulate’ businesses to invest on the expectation of higher profits. As a result, real incomes for the average Japanese household have fallen significantly. The so-called misery index (the sum of inflation and unemployment rates) is at a 33-year high!

>So what has happened under Abenomics is a sharp rise in the rate of exploitation of Japanese workers and a fall in their living standards in order to boost profitability.


Does anyone have Daniel Guerrin's book "Fascism And Big Business" or any other useful book on that subject?


File: 7ffc6f796ef97fd⋯.jpg (121.69 KB, 1280x720, 16:9, Parenti.jpg)


Guérin's book isn't online. If it isn't copyrighted I could eventually scan it or have people I know scan it.

Michael Parenti's "Blackshirts and Reds" does point out some examples of how capitalists supported fascism: http://b-ok.org/book/981420/378c5d


File: ab31b442814200b⋯.png (129.77 KB, 763x258, 763:258, Parentisources.png)


Yeah, I've read that, its good but not as systematic or in-depth as what I'd like. I looked at some of the sources that Parenti cites but I could only find Neuman's Behemoth and Dutte's book I'm not the biggest fan Dutte's writing tbh

Do you have any of these words scanned?

I know Jacque Pauwel's is releasing a book on Hitler and Big Business but it wont come out till 2018.


File: 39626ea987deabc⋯.jpg (251.81 KB, 1107x733, 1107:733, Togliatti.jpg)


I scanned Togliatti's book a while back: https://archive.org/details/LecturesOnFascism

Neumann's book is online: http://b-ok.org/book/2030961/9f5846

Salvemini's book is on Questia, which I have access to, but it's not something you download, it's just... text divided into hundreds of pages representing the hundred pages of a book.

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Anyone here wanna do translations for other languages to english? I am fluent in Chinese and would translate any articles you provide me to English (May take some time)

Examples from captions below

Pic with the RPG: "Chairman Mao's People's War thought (or ideology to be exact) will forever (eternally) shine light (In this refrence it means to forever be prestigious).

Guy with the machinegun :

"(if) people don't mess with me, I won't mess with them, (if) people mess with me, I will mess with them."

This is a proverb from Mao's Debating the (government) policy

The original is as such:“对于国民党军队,应继续采取人不犯我,我不犯人的政策,尽量地发展交朋友的工作”

"In the aspect of the ROC military, continue to utilize the '(if) people don't mess with me, I won't mess with them, (if) people mess with me, I will mess with them' policy, try to continue the job of expanding the network of friends."

Pic with the two guys and the little red book:

"Wilderness training trains the red heart, always closely follow Chairman Mao"

Red heart-Originates as symbol of loyalty in ancient China, eg; Wentian Xiang's Crossing the Lingding sea's last line "From the ancients to present, has a person not died? I leave my red (loyal) heart to history to clear my name"

Also, general translation request thread, art, speeches, literature, etc. I'd post a translation rn of some literature from Lu Xun but I'm lazy


File: cf27c3496f09a1f⋯.jpg (309.78 KB, 1745x1227, 1745:1227, PIC 00152.jpg)


Not a sage Forgot last pic. Oops.


What does the pic of >>5897 say?

File: 8cdf75fb8dde2e6⋯.jpg (47.08 KB, 240x286, 120:143, Nikolai_Bukharin_(3).jpg)


Where is Bukharin stuff in ebook reader friendly (Kindle, that being mobi, epub) format? Converting Marxists.org pages is fucking hell.


I do not think of it is online. Ismail is not aware of any (I asked him a while back).


File: 632ab3dd032736e⋯.pdf (333.03 KB, Bukharin - ABC of Communis….pdf)

File: 4b028516ad10ee6⋯.pdf (191.35 KB, Nikolai Bukharin, Luigi Fa….pdf)

Rename these to epub, I don't exactly remember where I got them, but it was either on libgen or archive.org You could also try calibre for converting pdfs into epub/mobi

File: 9c9a95b3e5cd7bf⋯.jpg (143.94 KB, 798x675, 266:225, IMG_1492.JPG)


What are some good resources for studying the way the legal system worked in socialist countries? I'm curious about legal philosophy and legal reform.


File: 3e99c39439b63f5⋯.jpg (132.45 KB, 500x375, 4:3, LENIIIIIIIIIII.jpg)


Pages 156-164 of the following work are also of interest for a few examples of Soviet law in practice: https://archive.org/details/RussiaReExamined

Bourgeois works include "Justice in the U.S.S.R." by Harold Berman and "Justice in Moscow" by George Feifer (neither of which are online.) There's also a bourgeois work titled "The East German Social Courts" by Peter W. Sperlich which praises them, but it isn't online either.



Thanks, comrade. Is Mandel's book a worthwhile read in its entirety?


File: a24b54730c6f88b⋯.jpg (51.84 KB, 300x416, 75:104, William Mandel.jpg)


Yes, it provides an interesting account of the USSR in the years when the CPSU was triumphantly claiming communism would be achieved by 1980.

The same author wrote two other books: Soviet Women (https://archive.org/details/SovietWomen) and Soviet But Not Russian: The 'Other' Peoples of the Soviet Union (https://archive.org/details/SovietButNotRussian) which are also of interest if you're into those subjects.

File: e326bfd56e9c5c8⋯.png (20.17 KB, 310x310, 1:1, unnamed.png)


Hello marx , Back again

I was reading an article for a very popular Arab Stalinist author & I found that he was attacking Albania and hoxha calling them by "fakes"who tried to hide their first history , and he quoted from what happend in the third congress of the PLA alot, and he "proved" that Hoxha was "Okay" at first with khurshuv and the soviet revisionists, even with the attacking on stalin under the slogans of (anti-dogmatism,anti-personalcult.. etc)..

>is all that true?

and please can someone tell exactly what happend in the 3rd congress (PLA) ,and if anyone could prove what happend too by docs ,I would be thankful alot.

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Thanks alot for these informations dude.



comrade , can you please give me the original source of this record to hoxha??

cause I couldn't find it



Will do in some months. But yeah, Hoxha and Mao were fakes. Stalin called Mao the Chinese Tito.



I already know that stuff about mao

but hoxha??


File: fe44e9c7d49d77d⋯.jpg (46.38 KB, 480x362, 240:181, PKSH 8 Nentor 1941.jpg)


If you mean the diary entry, the source is Ditar 1955-1957. Tiranë: 8 Nëntori. 1987. p. 125.

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File: 18bffc23b4de663⋯.jpg (54.56 KB, 850x400, 17:8, Workers unite!.jpg)


What can I do to help the working class? Specifically to improve worker welfare and raise class conciseness!


Get involved in a union.

File: 4570101f922f210⋯.jpg (23.81 KB, 250x234, 125:117, Die einzig wahre Flagge.jpg)




















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I find it funny how Marx or Lenin never attacked the jewish bankers. Maybe the whole idea behind Marx was to subvert the gentile economy?



Let us consider the actual, worldly Jew – not the Sabbath Jew, as Bauer does, but the everyday Jew.

Let us not look for the secret of the Jew in his religion, but let us look for the secret of his religion in the real Jew.

What is the secular basis of Judaism? Practical need, self-interest. What is the worldly religion of the Jew? Huckstering. What is his worldly God? Money.


Emus won more wars than Nazis. A fucking bird.


File: bb064b566382338⋯.jpg (195.22 KB, 808x1024, 101:128, Marx.jpg)


If you don't think he analyzed the role of banking in capitalism and its potentially destructive effects then you've evidently not read Marx, e.g. https://www.marxists.org/glossary/terms/f/i.htm

He didn't attack "the Jewish bankers" specifically since a Jewish banker is no different than a gentile banker, just like a German industrialist is no different than an American, French or British one. Bourgeois Jews fared no better in Soviet Russia than their non-Jewish counterparts.

Likewise Lenin attached great importance to the role of banking in imperialism, as a cursory read of his famous work on the subject would show: https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/

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This board is an echochamper



Pretty sure if it was then this thread wouldn't still be up after 6 months.

File: 8321476f938a43a⋯.jpg (36.8 KB, 478x324, 239:162, Nicolas-Maduro_MILIMA20140….jpg)


What is your shitty excuse to not defend la Revolución Bolivariana and uphold Latin American socialism and solidarity?



File: e6ba6a5d4df8698⋯.png (152.56 KB, 450x300, 3:2, eti-topkek-findikli-kakaol….png)



>Latin American socialism

the situation there in Venzula is just a contradiction between the national burgoise headed by maduro against the burgoise of compradore type which it wants to sell the land for the American imperialist

maduro is not a socialist nor shit

fuck them all anyway




>unironically using the word buroise like a larping faggot









you talk like you are a fucking leftytard

kys fag , fuck maduro, fuck the venzulan traitors , fuck the americans , fuck the goddamn planet and our solar system

sage for life

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.




File: 5dbc90769a3c587⋯.jpg (15.52 KB, 400x436, 100:109, karl-marx.jpg)

Marxists do have a history of standing in support of the downtrodden. Even in countries where the working-class did not seize state power. This is what I wrote in regard to Marxism in the United States: https://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/comments/6u9uj8/my_response_to_the_rightwing_complaint_of_why_are/

As for countries where power was placed in the hands of the proletariat and how it affected the downtrodden, I'll respond to your Jordan Peterson except with an excerpt by Michael Parenti: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Tmi7JN3LkA

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The whole talk is pretty good, starting around 00:15:00 is a pretty good argument against the leftcom pure-socialism tract of thought.


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