National Socialism?

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File: 1427646941165.jpg (65.1 KB, 250x250, 1:1, reichsparteitag.jpg)

National Socialism? Adolf Heckla 03/29/15 (Sun) 16:35:41 No.2310

I was a strong Marxist-Leninist-Maoist for some time. But then I saw the greatness of National Socialism and wanted to ask if it would ever be possible for the Communists and National Socialists to have some form of relationship.

The main reason Adolf Hitler was so hostile towards you people was due to most of the Marxists he met being Jewish puppets in Vienna. There's also the fact that the Marxists he debated lied and denied that they'd ever lost to him, when they so clearly did. I am in no way racist as most of the people on /Natsoc/ are, because I believe Adolf wasn't inherently racist. He was, in fact, very racially aware and open to other races. The simple fact is that he didn't like Jews.

Most jews (2/3) were sent out of Europe under the Haavera agreement between Adolf and Georg Kareski. So if you wanna blame anyone for the lack of Jews in Europe, half of it goes to good ole Georg. Not to mention that under the Nazi worker's party, worker's rights increased dramatically.

I am aware that privatization increased under Adolf, but this was simply due to the fact that when Adolf was put into power, WW2 started. And if you know anything about WW2, you'd know that the Polish government were encouraging Polish citizens to kill/steal/loot German residents in newly acquired territory.

History aside, I do believe that the National Socialists and Marxist-Leninist Communists have much in common. I'd like to speak more to some of you in hopes that we can reach an agreement. Maybe even start a joint-work on Socialism together?

Comrade 03/30/15 (Mon) 23:15:38 No.2312

File: 1427757338527.jpg (33.67 KB, 432x432, 1:1, the only good fascist dead.jpg)

>>2310

Fuck off. There's nothing remotely socialist about "National Socialism."

Comrade 03/30/15 (Mon) 23:35:33 No.2313

File: 1427758533571.jpg (9.68 KB, 283x200, 283:200, mussolini.jpg)

>>2312

> There's nothing remotely socialist about "National Socialism."
Except the name, of course.

Also, fun fact: Mussolini was a leader of the Italian Socialist Party. Many of his ideas of fascism were supposed to be a left-wing counter to reformist positions of the socialist party and the Second International.

The funny thing is that fascism was originally supposed to be a proletarian revolution focalized on state power, however, unlike Lenin, Mussolini couldn't get much political support from traditional prole sectors and so resorted to the petty bourgeois middle class.

Still, it is curious. Fascism could well have been italian Marxism-Leninism, if the circumstances had allowed for it. Which actually, when you think about it, gives some ground to the assertion that Marxism-Leninism was russian Fascism, but that's the irony of it all, isn't it?

Ismail 03/31/15 (Tue) 01:24:25 No.2316

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>>2313
>Also, fun fact: Mussolini was a leader of the Italian Socialist Party.
And, like many dubious "socialists," supported imperialist war when 1914 came around.

>Fascism could well have been italian Marxism-Leninism, if the circumstances had allowed for it.
And Trotsky could have upheld Stalin. And Khrushchev could have been a good Marxist. I don't see your point. Mussolini was a shitty socialist before 1914 and an outright reactionary afterwards.

>gives some ground to the assertion that Marxism-Leninism was russian Fascism
I don't see how considering that Marxism-Leninism and Fascism are blatantly incompatible.

Ironically one of the best summarizes of Fascism's value to the bourgeoisie comes from Von Mises: “Against the weapons of the Bolsheviks, weapons must be used in reprisal, and it would be a mistake to display weakness before murderers. . . . Fascism can triumph today because universal indignation at the infamies committed by the socialists and communists has obtained for it the sympathies of wide circles. . . . It cannot be denied that Fascism and similar movements aiming at the establishment of dictatorships are full of the best intentions and that their intervention has, for the moment, saved European civilization. The merit that Fascism has thereby won for itself will live on eternally in history. But though its policy has brought salvation for the moment, it is not of the kind which could promise continued success. Fascism was an emergency makeshift. To view it as something more would be a fatal error.” Just replace "European civilization" in that quote with capitalism.

Comrade 04/04/15 (Sat) 13:15:06 No.2347

Problem is national socialism doesn't stem from the same philosophical framework and class based analysis of society as Marxism does. Also, it's pretty shit compared to real socialism due to not liquidating the bourgeoise or ending commodity production.

Comrade 04/05/15 (Sun) 15:25:18 No.2351

I sometimes think it's kind of shame that national socialism means "national socialism" as we understand it today, because it really should just be the opposite of international socialism - so the idea that socialism can develop in one country, surely?

Ismail 04/06/15 (Mon) 01:45:51 No.2356

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>>2351
The problem with that is it assumes there's no essential unity between the "national" and the "international" tasks of a victorious revolution. The USSR built socialism with two perspectives in view:
1. That this new society would serve as a model to proletarians in other countries;
2. That this new society would be both able to assist and receive assistance from the working classes of all other countries.

To quote Stalin:
>Can the victory of Socialism in one country be regarded as final if this country is encircled by capitalism, and if it is not fully guaranteed against the danger of intervention and restoration?

>Clearly, it cannot, This is the position in regard to the question of the victory of Socialism in one country.

>It follows that this question contains two different problems:

>1. The problem of the internal relations in our country, i.e., the problem of overcoming our own bourgeoisie and building complete Socialism; and

>2. The problem of the external relations of our country, i.e., the problem of completely ensuring our country against the dangers of military intervention and restoration.

>We have already solved the first problem, for our bourgeoisie has already been liquidated and Socialism has already been built in the main. This is what we call the victory of Socialism, or, to be more exact, the victory of Socialist Construction in one country.

>We could say that this victory is final if our country were situated on an island and if it were not surrounded by numerous capitalist countries.

>But as we are not living on an island but "in a system of States," a considerable number of which are hostile to the land of Socialism and create the danger of intervention and restoration, we say openly and honestly that the victory of Socialism in our country is not yet final.

>But from this it follows that the second problem is not yet solved and that it has yet to be solved.

>More than that: the second problem cannot be solved in the way that we solved the first problem, i.e., solely by the efforts of our country.

>The second problem can be solved only by combining the serious efforts of the international proletariat with the still more serious efforts of the whole of our Soviet people.

Comrade 04/06/15 (Mon) 12:25:46 No.2358

>>2356

This should be repeated to anyone who complains about socialism in one country, however it also highlights Stalin's failure to recognize the continuation of the class struggle in the USSR. When did he say this?

Comrade 04/06/15 (Mon) 13:19:38 No.2359

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https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1938/01/18.htm

Comrade 04/06/15 (Mon) 23:20:10 No.2362

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>>2358
>>2359
Yeah, there.

Stalin held that class struggle existed within the USSR, even though he saw it as something imposed from outside.

Comrade 04/10/15 (Fri) 11:47:25 No.2375

File: 1428666445121.webm (7.3 MB, 320x240, 4:3, withoutthecommunistparty.webm)

>>2310
>Maoist
There is your problem.

Comrade 04/25/15 (Sat) 00:44:24 No.2440

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>>2310

Natsocs are enemies of Fascism. So I don't want them.

Comrade 04/25/15 (Sat) 05:31:21 No.2441

>>2440

>implying Nazism isn't a brand of fascism

Comrade 04/25/15 (Sat) 05:34:39 No.2442

Lets just purge this shit

Comrade 04/25/15 (Sat) 06:08:31 No.2443

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>>2441

It's not. No corporatism not fascism

Comrade 04/25/15 (Sat) 06:33:15 No.2444

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>>2443

dis nigga not realizing that all "Socialism" was to the Nazis was a way to appeal to the workers because the word was associated with labour. All the actual socialists (ie people that wanted to socialize private property and dissolve class society) were purged during the Night of Long Knives.

also, check these trips

Comrade 04/25/15 (Sat) 06:42:09 No.2445

File: 1429944129822.png (843.3 KB, 1068x800, 267:200, I Don't think you know whe….png)

>>2375

where do you think we are

Comrade 04/25/15 (Sat) 06:58:48 No.2446

File: 1429945129011.png (1.02 MB, 902x573, 902:573, Mussolini (1).png)

>>2444

Nazi's weren't socialists either. They were just generic despots with a nationalist veil

The Strasser brothers were actual fascists. Corperatism is very improtant part of fascism

Ismail 04/25/15 (Sat) 08:56:58 No.2447

File: 1429952218446.jpg (74.58 KB, 262x368, 131:184, Hoxhaaa.jpg)

>>2442

So long as it's in one thread, I don't mind.

Comrade 05/03/15 (Sun) 15:52:29 No.2482

Fascism only cares about the nation, and doesn't give two fucks about classes (aside from a pragmatic point of view). Socialism is all about class stratification, and the nation is only expressed as a catalyst for social consciousness.

Also, Stalin tried to establish a Jewish homeland on Crimea, which if successful would have avoided the whole Sionist Israel mess. The stupid fucking nazis put an end to that though.

Ismail 05/04/15 (Mon) 00:39:12 No.2483

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>>2482

>Also, Stalin tried to establish a Jewish homeland on Crimea, which if successful would have avoided the whole Sionist Israel mess. The stupid fucking nazis put an end to that though.

Not Crimea (although some Soviet Zionists were accused of trying to do that in the late 40s) but Birobidzhan, which was meant to be a secular alternative to Palestine for Soviet and foreign Jews. It failed because of a combination of unfavorable conditions for settlement and because of the religious propaganda of international Zionist groups which said that Jews had to return to the "promised land."