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e41fa7 No.1217

I've been playing with Dexed and struggling to come up with nice sounding patches. I'm not even sure what a lot of the parameters do, even after looking at presets. I have experience with simpler VSTs like Fruity DX10 and FMDrive, but I don't understand what I'm doing with this one.

After trying to find a manual or some other form of documentation, I've come up empty. Anyone have any advice?

d1fb9c No.1220

I got so confused by the hundreds of clickable buttons and parameters and indicators and whatnot that I decided to just use acoustic instruments and put effects on them until they sound like synths. Works most of the time.


e41fa7 No.1222

>>1220

I'm not a synth expert or anything, but this is the only one I've been using lately that I've found challenging. I can't seem to find any explanation on how this VST works, and I even tried scrolling through a couple DX7 manuals.


a5a53a No.1223

I've been using Helm lately. It's GNU+Linux native, and it doesn't crash like Hive does. The way to learn is to spend time on it, it won't come easily.


a5a53a No.1224

I'm trying to make a Snails bass. Here's what I have done so far: https://u.teknik.io/0Zjm5b.helm


6c3ea8 No.1229

>>1217

Okay, so, That is probably the ugliest and awkward to use FM Synths I've ever seen.

FMDrive is cool, but it's counter intuitive until you know what you're doing.

I would suggest you try out Imageline/FL's Sytrus first, just to wrap your head around what's happening.

So here I'm going to try to rapid-fire everything you need to know about how to make it work.

So, analog synths are Subtractive. This means you take a wave that is a certain shape, and another wave that's another shape, and you stack them up. the result is the points when they are out of phase with eachother cancel out or "subtract" and the result is a new, more complex wave shape. you then use filters to further "subtract" frequencies. In this case, you would have, Oscilators, which generate sounds. those are what make the waves themselves. oscilators. and their output is the sound. you can also adjust those oscilators, with LFO's or Low Frequency Oscilators so the amplitude of the LFO adjusts how much a knob gets adjusted by. This makes the LFO a "modulator" and the original Oscilator a "Carrier"

AM and FM are what happens when your modulator, is another pitched oscilator, meaning that isn't low frequency, it's an audible pitch. In the case of AM or Amplitude modulation, you are effecting the amplitude of a wave at the speed of another wave, which deforms it up and down. In subtractive-synth, AM gets called "ring mod" because it makes a ringing sound, at the frequency of your LFO, which gets cranked up pretty high into the audible range, but isn't note specific.

FM is when you control the pitch of one oscilator, with another. this also distorts the shape of a wave, but in a very different way. This distortion of the original wave creates new and complex harmonics.

So, in FM, they don't call them oscilators any more. They're called "Operators" or OPs. all operators are controlled by the same keyboard. you can re-tune each operator independently, but they will still be keyboard tracked smoothly.

All of these operators can be used as modulators, carriers, or both.

This leads me to Sytrus, which i mentioned before. Other good FM Synths use a simmilar layout, which looks like a square grid of knobs.

On the X axis of this grid of knobs, you have Operator 1-6

and on the Y axis, you have... operator 1-6

and the column on the far right, is your output levels. So if you turn the "output" for operator 1 all the way up, then operator 1, will be audible.

the rows are going from generator, to where they recieve modulation, all the way to the right into the output.

the columns are where a given operator modulates another.

So the 1st ROW left to right, is operator 1 as a carrier

then the 2nd knob, is the amount that Operator 2 is modulating operator 1. because the 2nd knob, is the column, of operator 2.

This makes way more sense looking at it,

Different sounds can be made by using differently shaped operators, using them for different amounts of modulation, at different relative frequencies, and even chaining them so that 1 operator modulates 2, and those modulate the next with those new shapes, and.... all kinds of weirdness can be done.

In this open source DX7 that you posted, it does not use this "patch matrix" grid, the same way. Instead, it has a grid where you select which operator is the output, and then you connect the modulators together in sort of a graph to say what modulates what, and you control the amounts with volume per op, and how much modulation each op can receive, which is really counter-intuitive, but is how all early FM synths where set up, which was a result of hardware limitations that we're not... limited to anymore.

if you can't find a manual for how to FM, then I have one for you.

This is a video playlist that is all about how FM Synthesis works, using real examples, and they're really well made, and they get better over time... THERE ARE A LOT OF THEM! 67 OF THEM! AND THEY'RE ALL LIKE 10+ MINUTES! THAT'S AN AVERAGE OF 670 MINUTES OR ELEVEN HOURS OF TUTORIALS. And that's just FM. This guy just does tutorials constantly. like, 2 tutorials and recording tracks, daily. and at every subscriber milestone he does tutorial requests for how re-creating sounds from other songs and he works out how to do them. he's currently doing the 75K subscribers, and is doing 75 tutorial requests. just... thought you should know. If you're a music producer as hobby or job, and you do electronic music, you should really be subscribed to this guy.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGYoE903Nir5FeFcH7FYkk-r2ZgmgJLjc


6c3ea8 No.1230

>>1229

also to clarify, the first one is from 2012

it's 2015. this guy has learned alot, For instance that first video he doesn't understand why a triangle wave behaves the way it does, but he does know now, and that's in some of his later tutorials. for the record, it's that unlike with analog synths which use the literal amplitude of a wave to control the literal amplitude of an effect. in digital FM, which is all FM btw, it uses the SLOPE of the wave, or the angle that it is at any given point. the result is a saw wave does something called "oscilator sync" and square does a similar thing.

Just... pointing that out.


6c3ea8 No.1231

>>1230

oh yeah, and the 2nd video in the tutorial is better than the first, the first 1 is when he didn't really know much of what he was doing.


e41fa7 No.1233

File: 1441757725772.jpg (42.35 KB, 500x429, 500:429, T_Hanks.jpg)

>>1229

>>1230

>>1231

Okay, thanks. I actually know the really basic FM stuff and was looking for a manual for this VST specifically.

I've seen a bit of SeamlessR's music theory stuff in the past and he seems pretty solid. I'll watch some of his FM stuff you linked and maybe screw around with Sytrus.


a5a53a No.1234

Is GNU+Linux suitable for advanced synthesis? If not I can always try to install Festige.


e41fa7 No.1235

>>1234

I got FL Studio running in Mint with WINE, but I'm sure your options with more "pure" distros would be a lot more limited.


6c3ea8 No.1238

File: 1441833890596.png (61.94 KB, 1175x830, 235:166, DX7 problems.png)

>>1233

well, from there, the next step it seems is to look at that vsti and see that its giving you each op as a different section that just has the ASDR envelope, and some other basic stuff, and then at the bottom middle it has a sort-of not-quite matrix, which ends up being your old-school mod diagrams, for what OP is modding what.

that's what EG is. Envelope Generator. it's your ASDR.

it looks like it's doing each op as a single mono osc, with independent modwheel controls. which... I don't know why you would ever mod FM OPs independently with a modwheel, that's a thing you want to be precisely controlled, because adjusting something like pitch to individual OPs independently does some freakish things to the character of a sound very very quickly.

Look at this picture.

This is the patch connections of a DX-7. This is how the operators connect to eachother and to output on a DX-7

THIS is how DEXED looks like it's based.

That grid in the bottom middle? yeah. it's these fuckin' things, but you can arrange them however you like.


e41fa7 No.1239

File: 1441842943448.png (24.62 KB, 284x210, 142:105, jp''pop.png)

>>1238

Yeah, I feel kind of bogged down in all the different possibilities for the algorithms. FM Drive had less of them, and the manual told you what kinds of sounds you could expect from the routings. Maybe I should take a look at which ones I used for the patches I made with that and apply them to this VST. Seeing as how the YM2612 is related to the DX7 and everything, it might be worth a try.

This area is one of the things I'm curious about. Maybe my hearing is just bad, but I'm not perceiving any audible difference to the sound when adjusting any of these parameters, or the detune knob for that matter.


46af57 No.1240

can this be used with ardour?


e41fa7 No.1241

>>1240

I haven't tried Ardour, but it should if it's got VST support.


7c35f8 No.1313

I really don't like Dexed. It's not intuitive and programming it is tedious. I don't know how it got so popular. Same with FMMF.

If you want a decent freeware one, try Doublesix.


e41fa7 No.1314

>>1313

I've actually grown to like Dexed after playing with it a lot more. I still don't understand the parameters I mentioned before, but so far I'm pleased with some of the sounds I've made. In fact, I think I'm just going to stick with it for FM sounds rather than using FM Drive. That's a good VST and everything, but I've actually gotten closer to the Sega/Soundblaster sound I wanted using this than an actual YM2612 imitation.

Here are some examples I got from screwing around:

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1FmOIuzA1w7

http://vocaroo.com/i/s0JpAWByWIJc

FMMF I never spent much time with, but I didn't like it very much. I remember liking Oxe FM, though I gave up on that one since I had trouble saving my patches.




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