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/musicprod/ - Music Production

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File: 1432762459978.jpg (84.81 KB, 600x458, 300:229, image.jpg)

d292b8 No.359

Xfer Records Serum thread. If you use serum, you can discuss all sorts of stuff that it does, and anything related to it. Post processing for sound designing with it can be spoken here too.

76e309 No.444

>>359

So, although I did recommend serum in the other thread, due to what I had seen online, I only just got around to downloading the demo, and…. I can't seem to wrap my head around it. I need to experiment and analyze it more, because I can't think of a when or why for any of the bend types.

basically I can't figure serum out for the same reason I never used massive. Are there any good serum tutorials?


a9c3af No.470

>>444

you can watch this playlist if you want an in depth overview of interface

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf4Dj3FSCjc&list=PLCdl4Odo4R1i0q3SzY0o3I0Qwl85N7H9F


76e309 No.477

>>470

i'll check it out, but it's not really interface I'm having an issue with. I've seen so many of seamlessR's tutorials that I just think in terms of frequency rather than wave shape, so I can't really wrap my head around why you would use bend +/- or any of the other bends. I can understand FM but that's about it. I can't think of a reliable and understandable use of any of it's unique features. IE I don't fully understand wavetables.


76e309 No.564

>>470

okay. so I know the mechanics of what the knobs and stuff do, and how the automation works. that's not what I don't understand. there might be something in the manual, i'll check in a bit, but….

I dont' understand the bend modes. I know what they do to the wave shape, it's quite literal, but I don't understand what THAT does consistently to the frequencies and sound. I can't figure out what I'd do with it for sound-design.

there's not really any other function this has that I can think of, that I can't replicate in harmor (other than using it as an FM source which is…. strange)


d292b8 No.603

>>564

You're forgetting the possibility to draw waveforms.


76e309 No.609

>>603

I can already do that to some extent on FL, just throw a saw through a waveshaper, and draw in the waveshaper. not even kidding. that's not particularly intuitive at first but then you can just resample it.

So I guess in harmor, no, harmor can't do that, but FL in general has the tools to do that one.

I guess I just don't understand how to do use wavetables effectively, which is why I'd love a good tutorial for wavetables in general, and when to use different "bend" types, because I don't understand why you would use those. I mean, I get it for +/- specifically, because they "look" visibly like FM using a sin at the same octave. and another one of them "looks" like the same, but for an octave lower.

Which leads to my confusion on why have that when you already have FM? there's gotta be more to it than that.

I'm trying to find ways to use it -consistently- with its unique features. if I can't do that there's no reason to buy it/crack it.


a78fec No.614

>>609

That's not what I meant. I meant you can literally draw the wave form from NOTHING, and create its own modulation positions too. Not to mention re sampling and editing parts of the original wave form of samples for fuck anything you want. Harmor is not a wavetable synth. Serum is. There are many things serum can do that harmor can't.


76e309 No.615

File: 1433778566853-0.png (306.43 KB, 1380x969, 460:323, waveshaper.png)

File: 1433778566853-1.png (303.44 KB, 641x571, 641:571, serum harmor comparison.png)

>>614

Uhhh I think this is a fundamental misunderstanding of what i'm saying. I am well aware that there is a multitude of things serum can do that harmor can't, but wavetables are not one of them. This is because harmor resambling is basically an additive wavetable. you can set the course/speed to zero, which will result in a single held wave-form, and cycle through it as if it was a wavetable, the difference is that it does so additively, rather than subtractively (harmonically, rather than literal per cycle wave shape)

The only ways that this is different (since both have 2 slots for re-sampling) is that serum is focused on the shape of the wav, rather than it's harmonic content, and the best reason for that is subtractive synthesis which uses phase cancelation, or for distortion. additive synthesis simply doesn't have that attribute the same.

Otherwise the key difference is in bend-modes, and different ways to interpret waves asymetrically (like intentionally using the wrong pitch when re-sampling) as well as in-serum wave-shaping with bend modes.

As for the posibility to draw waveforms from nothing, yes, that's what a saw wave into waveshaper does.

See, waveshaper gives you an input output graph, like a compressor, except that there is zero delay on it. and what this does is takes whatever amplitude of any given part of a wave and snaps it to a different amplitude. so if you take a saw wave, and draw a sine wave in waveshaper, and the levels are correct going in, you will get an output of the exact sine-wave that you drew. it is literal, 1:1. of course if you use something other than a saw wav then yeah, you'd get a different output. here. i'll actually do this part and screencap it, just so that you can be clear of what's going on, I'll even mark it out, and if this is not what you meant by "drawing the wave" then you can explain it to me.

as for setting your own modulation positions, yes, that is cool. but again, that's something I don't fully understand, again, because it's the shape of the wave, rather than its harmonic content. (which is why I don't typically use waveshaper in this way to begin with)

so collectively, the difference between serum, and harmor + waveshaper, is that serum preserves the waves shape in wavetables, but harmor preserves just the harmonic content.

Serum warps and manipulates the waves shape,

harmor warps and manipulates the harmonic content.

I'm not trying to argue about the things they have in common, I'm trying to learn about the specific things that are different.

the first image is the waveshaper,

the second is a comparison of serum and harmor.

The red highlighted knob in serum is unique to serum.

The green and blue highlighted features are basically the same (when harmor's other displayed knobs are in those positions)

I want to know about that thing I highlighted in red, and how to use it consistently, and you're telling me that the blue and green aren't the same, when they functionally are (except that serum literally recreates the exact wave shape, where harmor reproduces that wave shape's harmonic content, meaning they will sound the same but look different, except for stereo samples with phasing but I don't even know if serum can do that either)


d292b8 No.620

>>615

The red highlighted knob is for selection of WARPS. What warps do are usually changing the waveform. Bend +/- there gets easy ways to bend between the two. The sync within it is basically pitching to work with fm and put it to an octave I think. FM we know what that is. The FM is there because of the more wave forms, you have more possibilities. That and it also fm's the noise osc, and the sub osc as well. Quantizing we all know that one.

The entirety of serum is mainly like massive, but with user waveforms and re sampling.


d292b8 No.621

>>620

Basically the warps knob for consistency is manipulation. That's mainly it.


d292b8 No.622

>>615

Also, the part of wave shaper and saw;

That's not exactly correct. With wave shaper and a saw you're not making something from nothing. You're just editing a basic saw. Serum's wavetable editing is mainly changing harmonics and shit like that.


76e309 No.623

>>620

I see what it does visually, simply by looking at the waveform and watching what it does when I use the warp knob. that's not what I'm trying to understand about it.

I'm trying to understand when you would use that in a sound, IE what it does to the sound, rather than shape. For instance I know that using FM you get saw wave harmonics, but if you use FM with a modulator 1 octave higher than the carrier, you get square harmonics instead, or that a triangle FM is more for introducing 2 pitches as a result, whereas a sine wave sweeps between those pitches, or that higher harmonics in the modulator, can result in formants being added to the carrier.

all that is stuff I've learned about FM. Now I'm trying to learn things like that, about the warp feature of wavetables.

as for >>622

drawing harmonics you say? I can also do this with harmor. it's 512 additive sine waves stacked and re-pitched. you can import images to control frequencies, which means you can make a 512x512 image, and effectively get a 512 cycle wavetable, consisting of 512 bands. vertical being the frequency, color/brightness (greyscale) being intensity/loudness, and horizontal being over time. I haven't made *much* use of this, beyond using it to export sound as an image and edit a sound in GIMP, to do things like attempt manual noise removal, but that shit is hard, or weird types of crushing. (reducing frequency data rather than bitrate data. that was a fun experiment)

and yes, i do get why shaping a wave from nothing is valuable, and I had been looking for something like that, but you can literally do this with notepad and a wave editor, and then import that single cycle waveform.

but that's just ways to get the same result with a different, much more complicated workflow, than what serum offers.

It's like I keep saying, the warp/bend is the one thing that is *especially* unique for serum. the only other synth I personally am aware of that had this was massive, which does NOT allow custom wavetables, which is really what killed massive IMO.

I guess I'm gonna have to dig through for warp mode tutorials myself then.

Also I only just saw this I don't know how it didn't register when I read it the first time but

>it also FM's the noise osc, and sub osc.

>FM'S THE NOISE OSC

WAT

I can't… WHAT?!

I'm gonna have to play with that one now, that could have interesting results if that does what I expect… sytrus can make an operator pure noise, and that noise can be a modulator, but it doesn't get modulated… if you can FM static noise…. ohhhhh that can be strange… I can only imagine how that would sound….


d292b8 No.631

>>623

Yes it's actually very cool given that you use the right wavetables to fm.


d292b8 No.632

>>631

Oh hey look at that I forgot the capcode


d292b8 No.633

>>623

Also, how to use this is basically like anything else. FMing is just setting up wavetables, modulating the fm amount, etc. and everything has a way to be used. You just gotta fuck with it enough to see it.




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