/musicprod/ - Music Production

That's what takes both talent and practice. Use a piano roll and draw out a melody with harmony, and as you're listening to it, imagine how it could be better. Imagine what you would want to hear in an rpg.

>>989

Also, the coloring and shit comes after you have the melody and harmonies in place. Sometimes you don't even want to start with the stick figure though, and instead jump straight to coloring. Ambient textures and shit. But that doesn't work in 8 bit music.

>>988

There is no workflow in making music. Or you could say, everybody has a different workflow that always changes.

The best thing to do is just play around with stuff - be it melodies, rhythms, synth textures. Once you get something that sounds good, go with it and see where it takes you.

>>988

well there's 3 ways I go about writing music, the first 2 have mixed results. I'm gonna do this in 3 posts. one for each method.

Step 1. Make a rhythm. just to get going. just like drawing, the hardest part is making the first marks.

step 2. just sit there for a bit and experiment with that rhythm. those drums, maybe add a bit of bass to it.

Step 3: use this rhythm to establish a 'flow' for your song, like how you want it to play out, where the 'movement' is. basically, work out your song structure, and make different versions of your rhythm, or rhythms, to fit.

step 4: instruments. layers layers layers. make a sound, put it on, make a sound, put it on. build up each bit of melody around your existing rhythm so that it fits.

>This method typically results in a standard sort of background music. to create a complete song that is a central focus, there are more steps involved, such as creating a hook, and using music theory for call and response, and all of this is based more specifically on the genre of music intended, and instruments used. because of this, unless you are experienced in music theory, this method will result in a bunch of dead-ends, but you can recycle those dead-ends later when you get an idea.

you will wind up with a pile of like 80 half finished songs using this method, that you will forget about, then later go through them and possibly get more ideas. This is what I did when I was starting out.

I nolonger work this way. It's a good way to get started in the first place because it garauntees that you do SOMETHING, which is important, but it will mostly just be screwing around. Onwards to method 2.

>>999

Cont.

Method 2 that I have used.

Step 1: Decide what your song is going to be for, or what it is going to be about. this will influence things further down the line.

Step 2: get a rough idea in your head for different concepts you want for what happens in your song, for instance "i want a part that is building up and seems like it's getting to some big hyped up moment and then suddenly the drums are gone and like the melody is suddenly on a different instrument, and like, it's a different key, and it's slower, and it's kinda sad, because it goes along with this mental/visual cue because it's supposed to be that this thing happened and there's this realization about things and meanings and shit"

you will probably feel really dumb while you're doing this, but what you're basically doing is telling a story, and then making the parts of the music that match that story.

step 3. using the above notes, work out what the song structure will be, based on how long each part will take, and what instruments will be present for each part. you don't have to worry about putting any notes, wall you're worrying about right now is how long each pattern is for each instrument.

step 4: pick a section of the song, and what's supposed to be in that section, probably the first part, and just start filling it in. Drums are easiest for me personally, followed by any basslines.

Think about what kind of mood it's supposed to be for this part, and make sure you write in the appropriate key. check the music theory thread and the sticky, in that you'll find a thing about like circle of 5ths and chord progressions, and what key to write for what mood, etc. use that as reference and learn it, use it.

for now just work on your melodies and song structure, worry about making the individual instruments sound awesome later, because at that point it will just be a checklist.

step 5: repeat step 4 for the next part of the song. just keep doing that till you've got all the parts filled in and then move on to step 6. it's literally just a case of actually "doing the work" from here on out, since the hard part was the first few steps.

step 6: the other hard part.

you're probably using general midi or stock sounds, or just saw/square waves and stuff at this point, so it won't sound that good, because you haven't really added much consideration yet. that's what you're fixing now.

Decide on what kinds of instruments/genre you want this to sound like. Do you want orchestral? rock? metal? Chiptune? techno? dubstep noises? horror movie soundtrack noises?

basically, your aesthetic. you need to think back to step 1 about why you're writing it, to really decide. once you've got that figured out, you move on to step 7 to use that knowledge.

Step 7. Pick one of your sounds that you've used, figure out what sound you want it to be playing that part, and take the time to make that sound. work on it and work on it and make it perfect, or as close to perfect as you can. remember, it's unlikely that you'll have just one sound at a time, ever, unless it's a part designed for that, which you'll know it when that's the case, so it doesn't have to be 100% perfect on its own. it will sound different when layered with other instruments.

after you've made a few instruments and they're all together, it won't sound quite right, and you'll end up tweaking them even more while they all play, which is why I say don't worry if you can't get it 100% perfect. No artist in the history of the universe has ever gotten anything 100% perfect. they always feel like somethings just "a little bit off" it will NEVER sound identical to how it sounds in your head, unless the sound in your head is a specific sound or sample, that you can already replicate perfectly, or sample, or is a preset.

once again like earlier, just take the time to do this for every instrument, every pattern, every sound. you're taking the time to make everything yours, but it's also just going down a checklist, which makes it a much less daunting task.

Once you run out of things to do, move on to the final step

Final step: Mastery. Look up some mastery tutorials and get to work on that part. if you're happy with it though, or if it's a chiptune, or a few other cases, you could technically call it done at this point. the point of mastery is just that final polish. and in the case of some styles of music, or being that guy in the industry, adding as much loudness as you can without ruining it. but that's up to preference. I prefer not to go the loudness rout, but that's just me.

>this will take a long time, but it is fairly easy, IF you have a subject/story for it to be about.

>if you're doing soundtracks, this works like a dream, this method is damn near made for soundtrack composition.

>if you're trying to write something like a dance song or rock and roll or something, it doesn't work as well unless you're writing some kind of ballad.

>>1000

cont. final

Method 3 that I have used.

This method is the most difficult to do, requires the most knowledge of musical genres and music theory. Using this method is unfortunately the most soul-killing method, and will probably lead to depression because it takes the fun and the soul out of it.

This is how pop music gets made.

this is how top 40 gets made

this is where boybands and idols, and all that catchy shit on the radio you hate but still gets stuck in your head is from

this is where the industry thrives.

this is where the death of originality lives

this is the home of 4 chords, creepy lyrics that noone notices, and everything that makes people want to turn off the radio once you understand a damn thing about music, or you pay attention to the words of a pop song.

This is how you make music like "the man" this is how you make hundreds of songs in no time flat, and relying on statistics for some of them being hits.

you have been warned.

Step 1: Pick the type of song you want to write. a love song, a party song, a bragging song, telling a story, or a break-up song.

Most pop is love songs, telling a story, and breakups

most country is telling a story, break up, or party.

Most rap is party, bragging, or a mix of story and something else. usually angry or sad.

Step 2: based on step 1, pick your key, how many verses, grab a template for how long each part is. verse and chorus are always divisible by 4. usually 8 bars, occasionally 12, rarely 16. never 20. pick your chord progression. for most cases, this will be either 4 or 8 chords. usually you will use I V vi IV. also known as the 4 chords, also known as pachabel's cannon in D.

step 3: use random numbers to generate rhythms, and melodies, then transpose said melody into the key and chord progression you chose. continue creating new random patterns until you have something that really pops.

step 4: apply that pattern to your progression and song. make a simplified version of it, and follow along with bass. maybe add some swing if the genre calls for it. syncopate the bass if the genre calls for it.

step 5: 4 on the floor. you will never need more.

step 6: lyrics. They don't have to mean jack shit. they don't have to make sense. they don't even have to make sense within the song itself. the only thing it needs is that it has to rhyme, be in common time, and be sung with a strong voice.

step 7. make every sound a stock preset, or from a sound pack or sample kit. add a tiny bit of effects on it, as dictated by the genre's template.

step 8, pass it to the audio engineer for mastering.

repeat every hour for a full work day. 8 hours a day should get you 8 songs. continue that for a few weeks and you will most certainly have a few hits in there. pick up your hits, and a few of the other random songs to fill in, and you have an album.

contact / hire a marketing team.

>>1001

>>1000

>>999

Having typed all those out, the first method feels most 'genuine' but is difficult to make anything complete.

method 2 is the most satisfying, but it's difficult to get constant inspiration for new tracks. If you're making a game and making each track for different parts of the game, it should be considerably easier for you to use this method.

method 3, is just what you do when you've got no ideas at the moment and are scraping the bottom of the barrel.

There is presumably a 4th method, which usually comes from when you happen to come up with some idea for a song spontaneously, but I have literally only had this happen once, and the result was not very good.

Some artists are just really good at this.

If you are good at getting regular inspiration for things just sit down and cram your ideas out as you get inspiration, and just paste it all together, and fill in the blanks, which is basically how the first method I listed works.

I can't reliably do that, but then that's probably why I'm not famous and I'm just some guy on the internet.

>>1002

oh god also

if by workflow you mean "what's the best order in which to do things for making a given instrument" there isn't one. it is literally just do it however.

The real true workflow is

step 1: have an idea to make a song

step 2: sit down to make your song

step 3: actually start to do it. starting is the hard part

step 4: keep going. this part is easy

step 5: finish it. this is the easiest part.

anything outside of those steps, doesn't goddamn matter. the hardest part is starting, and knowing how to use the tools you make the music with, which isn't workflow, it's familiarity with your tools. if you need to do that, get help with those tools. be it a guitar, or a DAW, or a specific synth, or how to do sampling. none of those things are workflow.

In that case it's like >>991 said.

there is not workflow in making music, everybody is different, and it always changes.

the hard part is just starting.

(field 2 long)

>>1005

I'm gonna reply sort of out-of-order here

>call and response

Unless you get your call and response concept in one of those "natural bursts", it's just not going to happen. In the case of the 3rd method I listed, which includes using a random number generator (of which there are psudo-random pattern generator things in FL, just for the record) and when you find a good one you break it into call and response and build off of it.

That's what I'd call artificial.

working from a standard template, is artificial. but sometimes it's a comfort to do in a weird way, because everything seems to magically just fall together for you almost effortlessly. it's just… it's not personal, and the fact that it's not personal is how ghost-writers are able to ghost-write hundreds, even thousands of pop hits, have no fame for it personally, and never complain. because it becomes just a job.

That's when you're artificial.

what you call artificial, I'd just call strained. and I get that alot too.

>2nd method,

I guess I didn't explain it particularly well.

you're not mentally creating a whole song, what you're doing is creating sort of a mental story, not a song. like… the thing that the song is "about" sort of a mental accompanyment. like, when you do get a "natural burst of production" there's usually something else in your mind too, other than the music. Method 2 is on focusing on that other thing, and fleshing it out more, and then using that more finished idea, to inspire more "natural bursts"

because when you've got this idea of "oh hey, this thing happens in this story, and then this thing happens and then this thing happens" you then take that and go "oh okay, this first thing is happening" and you think of like music to go along with it. and get ideas from it. and it's sort of a "natural burst generator"

so you take all the events in this story, and mark them down, and you'll have sort of a rough idea of like "I want this part to be like, sort of quiet, with some kinda airy pad thing, and then there's a drum that goes DUN DUN and then it's quiet and then some snares and other weird drums sort of start rattling around and building up and then you get another DUN DUN. and then like a guitar starts fading in as this like long drawn out note and it's all just building up to this like action packed explosion that's the next part"

and you basically take that idea and just sort of sloppily jot it down real quick so you don't forget, and then you come back to it.

you're never working on teh full song at once, you're just working on fragments of it, and then piecing it together. in movements i guess would be the classical term.

It's sort of like writing from what i've heard. The best way to write something is do a quick rough draft all in one go just to get absolutely everything out, even if it's short, Even if it's bad, because then you can go over it and fix everything and make it better, and make it better, again and again, until you have a final product. because if you don't get the basic concept of the finished work, no matter how bare-bones that is, you'll end up constantly changing things in revisions, and you'll never get around to actually finishing.

I've done only about 8 songs with this method, but i actually finished all of them, and I actually feel kinda proud of them. and to me they're also always associated with a story as well. even if the "story" is just an abstract concept or a joke, as long as you have this concept that was the inspiration for that natural burst, then you can just keep doing it.

>>1006 cont

>>1007 cont

It's… hard to explain.

>maybe i just need to get better at sound design

order of operations bro

song structures first. how to build tension, how to release tension, understanding verse/chorus/verse type things if it's relevent, recognizing thigns that alot of music does.

second, learning to recognize intervals

third, learnign to recognize chords

fourth, using 2 and 3 to more accurately re-create melodies that you have in your head

5th good structure

6th mixing/leveling

7th sound design

8th, mastery.

if you're just working intuitively you probably can't recognize pitch intervals easily and are having to go "oh wait, that was wrong" and change things a few times before you get it right.

Don't worry, I have this problem too, but I'm gonna be starting to train myself on recognizing them. there's some website seamlessR mentioned that sounds like it's flash cards but for note intervals, which means there's basically only what, 13 of them? that's not much, this shouldn't take long.

I could be partially talking out my ass on this one, and you actually do know your intervals, and you're imagining weird complex sonic textures instead of melodies, at which point god damn what are you trying to be afx? yeah, that's time to start seriously learning sound design, if that's what you're trying to do, yeah, you need to learn out synth types, frequencies/harmonics, and how they interact, and what the technical side of the basic effects are, and formants, and traits of metalic sounds and all that shit, and start building up from that. and that's hard work. that's audio-engineer level shit.

just, promise to not get mad if someone manages to make a song with presets and sample packs that ends up being a hit, while you're sitting here making technically proficient stuff with a niche audience. as a general rule, average people dont' care, or even recognize technical proficiency with music. it's why alot of metal-heads play guitar, but people that don't do music often can't stand it. same thing with the difference between like, tiesto vs say, Aphex twin, or any pop-electronic, compared to hardcore DNB.

Just… food for thought on that side.

>>1008

and by the way, when I say

>5th good structure

I don't mean exclusively song structure, that's sort of technically covered on the first step

what i mean is like, "songs to be this mood should be in this key, with this scale or whatever" music theory style of structure. which doesn't always apply for electronic music, or freeform jazz, or ambient stuff. or drum/rythm heavy music.

just thought I'd clarify that. now i have to sleep.

>>1000

Sick trips, m8.

>>1010

>sick trips

>>999

>>1000

oh wow look, consecutive numbers. it's a miracle, oh it is beautiful, magical… [/sarcasm and song]

>>1011

First 4-digit post number on this board is pretty sick. Your sarcasm has been invalidated.

>>1012

i don't get told my post numbers are good, I just crapped out a vaporwave track. it invalidates all praise I shall ever get.

>>1007

The 2nd method actually makes more sense to me now. Even though I'm not used to it, I feel like it would be a nice change of pace to plan out a song a bit more beforehand. I'll try and and see what happens.

>>1008

Agreed with that order… it makes me cringe when I see some producer so good at mixing and sound design who barely knows how to make melodies or chords.

>technical proficiency

I think the general populace can recognize technical proficiency, for example deadmau5, his melodies and progressions are very basic, but he's a technical master and that's why he's popular. You can't just crank out a pop electronic hit without it being very well mixed and produced. Obviously if you have Beyonce singing or some shit you can use presets and nobody will care, but that's a whole other topic.

I think it's defeatist to say, "to appeal to the mass public you need to use presets and barely try". You still need to be good at all the 8 things you listed if you want to get popular. I mean… there's a reason vaporwave isn't mainstream, lol.

You just need to have marketing and branding and stuff in addition to producing good catchy songs.

>learning theory

I'm not formally trained in music theory but I'm very classically trained from when I was a kid, I played clarinet and piano and listened to tons of classical music, also I have synesthesia, I can create good melodies and counter melodies without too much trial and error. So I think 1-4 come naturally to me, and it would be pretty pointless for me to learn them. But I can see why other people would need to.

>>1014

>technical proficiency

>deadmau5

deadmau5 is technical proficiency in terms of music theory, not sound-design. his sound design as far as I've seen has just been experimental, with a few consistent basics (trance plucks, trance plucks everywhere).

When I refer to technical proficiency I mean like, How hard it is to mix a deathmetal track, or How much effort it takes to make a good hardstyle kick, or a really good neuro-bass. Most average people don't care about the effort that goes into the sound design and mixing & mastery. that sort of technical.

as for needing to use presets and barely try for mass-market appeal, that's not what that means.

you can use presets and not try and get mass market appeal, or you can use lots of original sounds, and work your ass off, and get the same mass-market appeal. The problem is those people who don't try, and still succeed, you will resent them if that's the case, because you're doing all this hard work, and no noticeable pay-off for the extra work. this is because, again, as far as technical mixing/mastery is concerned, the mainstream doesn't really care.

that's why you get shit like

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOlDewpCfZQ (the 4 chord song)

or

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2cfxv8Pq-Q (how to write a love song)

or

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JV2s0UIPOQY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xIUeNJIrak (how to write a pop song 1 & 2)

>learning theory

the good things about theory that you could learn, are things like what all the different scales actually are, and why people use them, in order to deliberately create specific emotional responses when desired, and when to you would have 2 instruments that follow eachother, and when to have those same 2 instruments move in opposite directions rather than the same one. it's good stuff to know for when you "run out of ideas organically". that's what music theory is mostly for.

As for that method i described. years and years ago, I used to play a F2P 2d MMO, called maplestory. using a quest line leading up to a boss-fight, I wrote a 7:25 instrumental piece that sort of tells the story of going through that quest line and then ultimately failing to beat the boss. it was fun to do, it's still one of my better things i've written, and the quest line no longer exists, and the maps aren't even the same. and I haven't played in years.

Inspiration is hard for some people to come by. I'm thinking about taking the time to create some sort of inspiration generator for "here's randomly assembled story ideas, read it, imagine how it would go, see if you get an idea. no idea? click this button for a new one" Shit man, I would use that for writing music more than writing stories.

>>988

If you're a newbie, I would suggest start off your music as simple as posible that has short phase of repetition and also do the instrument which stimulate your mood the most.

This help you generate your idea more quickly. Idea is the most essential resource in composing. You wont go anywhere without having idea what to create.

Most of the time composer would start with baseline or drumbeat, or either both simply because its somewhat easy to start with. Once you get that done, you need to structure your music, whether you have opening chorus, bridges and ending. All these portion have different melody, they all sound differently.

From there, add some more instruments. Enrich your music as best as you could. And finally you will go to mixing your music. Depends on the complexity of your music, this is the last and the most hardest work to do, it's like how you paint your artwork in color and making sure its a masterpiece work of art. This last step is where you make sure everything sounds dynamically correct, and adding touch up or fx as you like make it sound good.

Hope thats help

i'd write out the scoresheet, try to choose a time and key signature you feel works by humming a scale that falls under it, to a particular tempo. generally speaking

>tempo

>time signature

>ba bum ba bum with your mouth and get a feel for it percussivly

>chose a key

>hum out quarter/half notes, and a triplet

>choose a scale

>merge the two

>write a bar or two

>shift intervals

>find a progression that works with the interval shifts for chords

and that's about it i guess? i might be retarded.

>>1022

I guess it's about time I finish the beginner's guide in the OP.

My personal workflow is generally:

>get a basic idea - this basic idea can be anything from just a few notes or chords to "I want to make a song that starts off like this, then goes into that, with this and that instrument".

>sit down on my piano or with a guitar and fuck around improvising until I have several different parts that can go together okay

>bullshit some filler lyrics just to make melody writing easier

>get on computer

>basic drum loop & basic pad, piano, or guitar sound

>make the structure of the song

>record a guide vocal track

>build on top of it, change the original rhythm tracks, etc

>get instrumental done

>change lyrics to something better

>record lyrics properly with good singing and all

>record harmonies

>do final mix

>done

That being said, it really depends on the song - sometimes I get started by fucking around with a rhythm on my software or some synth sound I like, or even occasional samples. But usually, I like to have the song more or less written before recording.

>>1016

you actually got it backwards, deadmau5 is all about sound design and mixing over "music theory".

have you ever just hummed a tune in the shower and thought to yourself how much better it sounds than most of your shit, yet you never put it down on paper? feels awful. i wish i could put more time into writing scores than just recording my performances. i play guitar and keyboard but in a simplictic chordal fashion, but even then my rhythm is weak and not balanced with some understanding of how shifting between triplets and tied bars can make a piece more dynamic, even if it's a short selection of bars.

>>1191

What genre would you say you're writing in?

>>1192

i'd say classical/orchestral is what i wish to master, but i like IDM/expiremental rock as well. so something with a hint of mix with that. basically i like to try and use dissonant or cacaphonic chords for various articulations, and use timpani percussion with a drumkit/drum machine. my best way to describe it is like Bersarin Quartet meets Boards of Canada, but with some guitar accompaniment in the mix there akin to tame impala.

>>1196

Sounds good. I'm also making some orchestral music. I always just keep the phone in the bathroom so I can stop the water and record myself whistling the melody clearly and loudly. When I hear it again later I'll remember the chord progression and have a pretty good recollection of the whole idea. Serious. Then I can realize the idea with sample libraries. Do this.

>>1197

shit that's a good idea. thanks im gonna try it out.