/n/ - News

I always Lol'd at how the "affordable" care act expects me as one 22 year old dude working one job to afford fucking $200 a month

Also, probably the shittiest outcome was that when Employers were required to give healthcare to full time employees, they just cut their hours to avoid having to bite the bullet and pay more money.

I'm excited to be able to work full time and make a decent paycheck again.

>>326827

This is a major indication of why voting for someone like Trump is absolutely important.

We should never be mandated to pay these expenses in the first place. Allowing people to choose their plans and services IF they decide to get insurance is essential as well. Trump's reform would open up a vast amount of alternative options across the country giving incentives for these services to provide cheaper insurance so they can compete with others.

>>326824

Obama only cares about recent grads. Anyone over 21 is fucked.

>>326822

Reminder that Obamacare was conceived by the health insurance industry to benefit them, not the american public:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-12-07/meet-liz-fowler-architect-obamacare-jumps-ship-johnson-johnson

A few years later she landed a position at WellPoint as a vice president overseeing the giant insurer’s lobbying activities. Fowler then returned to Senate Finance in 2008 to work for Sen. Max Baucus, who chaired the committee, which was becoming Action Central for health reform. Fowler and Baucus pretty much wrote the bill that became Obamacare—and which, we should note, did not include a proposed “public option,” which was popular with ordinary people but not the insurance companies that lobbied hard to make sure it was out of the mix.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/obamacare-improves-another-life-bills-architect-cashes-out-to-pharma-giant/article/2515260

>>326822

>By following free market principles and working together to create sound public policy that will broaden healthcare access, make healthcare more affordable and improve the quality of the care available to all Americans.

>this is what cuckservatives actually believe

>>326901 (You)

>>326901

99.9% of Americans don't support pure free-market capitalism, they support a form of "fair-play" capitalism. That is to say, they are for things like antitrust laws and restrictions on lobbying and immense campaign contributions.

Obamacare is just a money siphon, its a cover to spend more on ISIS

>>326999

Source?

>>326903

Whats with applied memetics in the file name? Judging on how often I see this post I have to assume you are one person. Im here more or less 24/7 and always have all the top threads open (Even if they are crabs).

I know I shouldnt say what I'm about to say because its pointless to argue with a brick wall but here goes……….

Trump inherited money AFTER he built his business NOT before. Plus the inheritance was split between trumps two brothers and sisters.

The million dollar loan was used to create billions and was also paid back.

>>326903

Stop trying to force that meme.

>>326901

Even people who are extremely liberal in most areas argue for exceptions in national defense and healthcare. The argument generally is that demand goes far out of balance when people are dealing with live and limb, which causes prices to skyrocket. I personally haven't read many solutions to the healthcare problem, but HSAs and price transparency are two points that I really like. I'm sure faults can be found in Trump's plan, but it does a great job at encouraging competition in the drug market.

>>326853

THIS.

>>326893

AND THIS.

>>327029

You argued with a disinfo shill who posts shit threads about crabs and indian poop because the dude doesn't want anyone reading anything informative let alone discussing anything important. You make a very good point though in your argument though. PS: Please help bump up the good threads, like this one. They are being sliden by purpose.

>>327231

>I'm sure faults can be found in Trump's plan, but it does a great job at encouraging competition in the drug market

I just showed this to a commie the other day, he was stunned. I told him please try pointing out something WRONG with Trump's healthcare plan… he couldn't. This guy used to support Obamacare, until he got stuck under the same knife.

>>327042

That 'meme' is a spam bot.

>>326824

Welcome to Canada, anon. What they don't take off your paycheck as an automatic tax they grub from you with monthly bills regardless of whether you actually go to the hospital or not.

bumping this

God damned good plan, take a look at it.

Better than I expected. Heck, couldn't be any worse than the current healthcare clusterfuck.

I do believe this is one of the reasons the establishment is so desperate to demonize and get rid of Trump.

Trump proposes solutions to today's problems. The establishment caused most of these problems we have today. The Democrats and majority of the Republicans (RINOs) want Americans under this economic subjugation and micro-management. That is why they don't propose any solutions, but will viciously attack those who do.

>>328996

Yes, Trump proposes solutions to the problems the establishment has caused - such as amnesty and Obamacare.

Read the fucking solution he proposes to fix the Obamacare DISASTER: https://archive.is/XXC5m

Pretty good ideas!

>>326822

>trump trying to crash the economy

>with no survivors

With this plan, the first step would be already taken.

>>329151

Obamacare is doing a pretty good job helping crash the economy. It needs to be repealed.

>>329151

Obamacare is doing a pretty good job helping crash the economy. It needs to be repealed.

I'm relieved that he steered it back towards free market and not further into the socialist abyss.

>>329277

Yep. Shocking, huh? This is why I thought a lot of people would love Trump's plan to reform the healthcare system. It's almost the complete opposite of Obamacare - and it will NOT be mandated either.

>>329291

Is there a candidate that isn't an NSA shill?

Rand Paul is no longer a candidate.

>supporting Medicaid

INTO

THE

TRASH

>>329503

>If the poor people just died out then everybody could be rich

>cut all socialized medicine

>poor people die

Funny how burgers still refuse to realize many european countries -particularly in scandinavia- have a superior system where the health care is paid by tax money. The poor get free treatment but can get long queues in non-emergency cases, whereas private sector is basically the "skip the enqueue"-option for a price. Not to mention the government-owned healthcare sectors can also commission the private hospitals to do certain operations for them if necessary, which makes sure the private healthcare isnt going anywhere either.

Obamacares biggest problem was that it was a lousy compromise. The whole idea that all healthcare is only tied to insurances should be abolished. Cut out the useless middle-man.

trump's healthcare plan: make all health care so expesive that only one percenters can afford health care. where i live, affordable health care means just that. if you don't make enough money, the state has plans for which you don't have to pay.

what ypu call "obamacare" is a far sight bertter than what we had before. this way, we are guaranteed health care. it's still not anywhere near equal to what they have in europe (the coverage we should have), but bit is far superior to the single payer plan that went on before. what you want for us is what they have in the third-world countries. no coverage, inadequate supplies and untrained physicians.

no thank you.

bernie 2016

>>329536

>>329575

>implying burgers have the mental capacity to realize that

>implying they wouldn't otherwise suck Drumpfs cock to no end

Nah man, just seeing with how much shit Drumpf and Shillary can get away already shows, that there's no hope for burgers anyway.

>>329536

>>329575

Why do you think people are entitled to healthcare?

>>329575

>if you don't make enough money, the state has plans for which you don't have to pay.

Did you read OP? The fourth point of the plan is to allow full tax deductions on premiums, and the seventh point is to pay states to improve their Medicaid. This is easily Trump's most left-wing stance thus far.

>>329575

>trump's healthcare plan: make all health care so expesive that only one percenters can afford health care.

Simply not true.

Trump's plan is also VOLUNTARY by the way. You won't be forced to pay for anything if you don't want to - *unlike Obamacare which the premiums are expensive as fuck and the ACA is infested with draconian gun grabbing regulations as well.

>>329609

Point well made.

>>329600

because being healthy is a fundamental part of the human condition. it's really not that hard to figure out.

>>327013

How can I get in on what you're doing?

>>329600

That's an incredibly bizarre statement to make. I bet you think it's the government's responsibility to maintain, say, roads with taxpayers money. So that people with cars can drive on good roads. Right?

>>329681

Being happy is a fundamental part of the human condition to, why aren't I entitled to that?

>>329681

Wrong in both practice and principle.

Healthcare is a service provided by people, and if we're all entitled to it, you are advocating their slavery to the Public. There is no such thing as "Free" healthcare.

In practice, socialized medicine results in a shitty public tier service, with a parallel overpriced private/black market for the well-heeled.

Video related:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2jijuj1ysw

>>326903

>>Donald Trump inherited his wealth

Trump made his billions BEFORE his dad died.

>>329930

Socialized medicine works fine, but it doesn't work when you have to deal with 30 million illegal immigrants stealing your health care and giving nothing into the system.

The Soviet health care system worked okay even when run by jews. You could get heart surgery for free.

>>330309

Oh, so I suppose he started his businesses with the money he saved up working at his mcjob? His daddy gave him millions. Guess what. If trump's dad gave me a million dollar head start i could be successful too. It's so obvious that trump doesn't have a shred of intelligence and owes it all to his family's wealth. (and why he's had businesses that have gone bankrupt despite his head start)

>>330458

Nothing you say or do is going to stop people from voting for Trump.

You cannot stump Trump. Unless you are a $10,000,000 hitman hired by the CIA, maybe.

So replace socialism with more socialism. Thanks. I'll just lay a rose on this country's grave.

>>330490

Obamacare does just that, and you are FORCED - by law - to comply and buy healthcare insurance as long as you work.

Trump's plan is 100% VOLUNTARY - meaning you don't have to have an insurance plan if you don't want one.

>>330497

Repealing Obamacare = Repealing Socialism.

Learn to fucking read: https://archive.is/XXC5m

Trump's plan:

Completely repeal Obamacare. Our elected representatives must eliminate the individual mandate. No person should be required to buy insurance unless he or she wants to.

Modify existing law that inhibits the sale of health insurance across state lines. As long as the plan purchased complies with state requirements, any vendor ought to be able to offer insurance in any state. By allowing full competition in this market, insurance costs will go down and consumer satisfaction will go up.

Allow individuals to fully deduct health insurance premium payments from their tax returns under the current tax system. Businesses are allowed to take these deductions so why wouldn’t Congress allow individuals the same exemptions? As we allow the free market to provide insurance coverage opportunities to companies and individuals, we must also make sure that no one slips through the cracks simply because they cannot afford insurance. We must review basic options for Medicaid and work with states to ensure that those who want healthcare coverage can have it.

Allow individuals to use Health Savings Accounts (HSAs). Contributions into HSAs should be tax-free and should be allowed to accumulate. These accounts would become part of the estate of the individual and could be passed on to heirs without fear of any death penalty. These plans should be particularly attractive to young people who are healthy and can afford high-deductible insurance plans. These funds can be used by any member of a family without penalty. The flexibility and security provided by HSAs will be of great benefit to all who participate.

Require price transparency from all healthcare providers, especially doctors and healthcare organizations like clinics and hospitals. Individuals should be able to shop to find the best prices for procedures, exams or any other medical-related procedure.

Block-grant Medicaid to the states. Nearly every state already offers benefits beyond what is required in the current Medicaid structure. The state governments know their people best and can manage the administration of Medicaid far better without federal overhead. States will have the incentives to seek out and eliminate fraud, waste and abuse to preserve our precious resources.

Remove barriers to entry into free markets for drug providers that offer safe, reliable and cheaper products. Congress will need the courage to step away from the special interests and do what is right for America. Though the pharmaceutical industry is in the private sector, drug companies provide a public service. Allowing consumers access to imported, safe and dependable drugs from overseas will bring more options to consumers.

The reforms outlined above will lower healthcare costs for all Americans.

>>329600

i believe in the jeffersonian notion of how everyone is entitled to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness". one cannot enjoy any of these if they cannot obtain proper health care. without reasonable health, one can be neither living, nor free, nor pursuing ones own pleasures.

the european health cxare systems form the model by which we must establish our own, just as their education system does and their employment system does. we are one of the wealthiest nations in the world.

WE SHOULD NOT HAVE POOR, SICK AND UNEDUCATED PEOPLE! WE NEED EUROPE'S TAX SYSTEM!

>>330542

… and Europe is completely falling apart right now.

Seriously, utopia is an illusion, following such a fairy tail will lead you down a path to despotism.

Tell me this, how is Obamacare working out for us? If everything was working out well we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Actually "obamacare" is working out incredibly well, or have you not been following? Millions of more people have been able to obtain coverage that otherwise would not have been possible. Yes, there have been "hiccups" but that's to be expected from a new way of doing things. Repealing obamacare and instituting yet another system will have the exact SAME problems (if you can call them that) If trump (or anyone) gets rid of a framework that is otherwise working as remarkably well for doing what it's supposed to do, then there will be millions of people (including and probably mostly, republicans) who lose their coverage and will not be able to get it back.

Just look at this story as a prime example, for all those fools here who think that "you shouldn't be forced into health insurance if you don't want to"

Specifically this important line:

"Lang is left in precisely the situation that would exist if the ACA had never been passed."

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/just-shake-your-head

The US is backwards in so many ways. Socialized medicine DOES work. It's why so many european countries, Canada, etc. are better off than the US. (aside from all the other things like standard of living, life expectancy, overall health, education, etc.)

>>327029

>>327042

>>330309

It's a spam bot. Filter the comment and shut up.

>>331827

>Actually "obamacare" is working out incredibly well, or have you not been following? Millions of more people have been able to obtain coverage that otherwise would not have been possible.

And they're getting massively fucked over financially because the required health care is not at all "affordable" as you cucks think it is.

I'm sure for the rich middle to upper class it's fine, but for people that are struggling to make ends meet, being required to pay out the ass for shitty health care only creates further problems.

Socialism can go fuck itself.

>>329536

>particularly in scandinavia

Lol swedecucks

what the funny thing is, is he had to slap his name on it. Could have just called it "the affordable care act" and it would have went in and out like every other useless, overpriced government expenditure. but this nigger had the audacity to say "obamacare", and now whenever anybody thinks of the first black president, they will think of obama and the fuckup that is obamacare

gg barrack on fucking up everything for black people everywhere

>>329455

Is Bernie still in the closet about it?

>Obamacare has raised the economic uncertainty of every single person residing in this country.

Not really accurate, the economic uncertainty of having no medical cover was worse.

>Allow individuals to fully deduct health insurance premium payments from their tax returns under the current tax system.

That's kinda brilliant. In effect it's taxpayer funded, but by reducing tax revenue rather than having it as an output.

If that can be successfully coupled with reducing the crazy charging currently present in the market (e.g. 4 figures for 5 minute consultation) this could be a winner. How's that part going to be achieved though? That's one of the bigger advantages of single payer…

>>326824

>Surely he's bullshitting

>Lets see, quick quote, punch in info

>….

>309 GODDAMN DOLLARS A MONTH?!?!?!

>>331904

Are you fucking with us? Because the term "Obamacare" was coined by opponents. The official name is "Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act"

The origin of " *care " as a pejorative can be traced back to "HillaryCare" reforms in 1993.

>>326822

What always made me confused about US Healthcare was how they can spend around 13% of their GDP on Healthcare yet are unable to have A) Universal Healthcare and B) better healthcare than other "Western" nations that spend around 7-9% of their GDP on Healthcare?

Does the US always have to make things more bloated and overly expensive than they have to be?

>>332053

>Does the US always have to make things more bloated and overly expensive than they have to be?

Yes. The politicians have to find more and more ways to rip off the tax payers and more avenues and dirty tricks to launder money into their pockets. We have a scum-of-the-earth political system that is becoming just as corrupted as those of third world nations.

bumping

In NY, you can make less than $30k, take a standard deduction on your taxes, and end up only paying $20 a month for good health insurance. I'll keep muh socialized healthcare, thank you.

>>335120

The great thing about Trump's plan is his plan ALLOWS you to do just that. No one can be forced what healthcare plans to get, unlike Obamacare where it is mandatory and the options are so damn limited.

you morons could've voted for Rand and got this, and more, from a President who would actually get the cooperation of Congress.

fucking morons.

>>329600

>entitled

Plebbit, pls leave.

>>336659

While I think that Obungas plan is crap thanks to corporates forcing themselves into making it, there is a bloody good reason as to why it's mandatory.

If only those would chim in that want to, the system would break apart, simply due to lack of funds.

The US already makes a ton of new debts, the health plan was supposed to be a zero sum investment, and not pressure the budget on top of everything else.

With Trumps plan that will happen though.

The goverment would have to jump in and support it massivley, shiting on any budget proposals that might come along.

It#s either an all-in or all-out.

Otherwise systems like universal healthcare simply don't work, unless the goverment has the funds to support it all on their own from the beginning.

>>336727

Rand could never have won this election anon. Maybe in 8 years, we'll see. If he runs then, I imagine I'll vote for him.

>>329536

>hurr europeans have had healthcare for years why can't the USA XD XD

>no idea at all

>has nothing to do with ww2 basically fucking over Europe

>has nothing to do with the USA putting billions of dollars to protect Europe from the Soviets

>has nothing to do with Europe putting the money it was receiving from the USA to rebuild their economy

>during the years the USA and NATO were protecting Europe they were able to use all those billions towards their industry and social programs so they could focus on their citizens

>no one thanks the USA/NATO from protecting Europe for years so they could be the progressive society they are today with their healthcare because they could afford to do so

BUT NAH, America is so fucking backwards because we have no healthcare XD D

No it's because we USED to have insurance companies that made it really fucking cheap and easy to afford healthcare even on a minimum wage dime, a lot of businesses even offered their own healthcare plan. The idea behind that was you worked so of course you got health insurance.

But then came Obama and his shitty fucking "hurr why aren't we progressive like Europe guys?" and thus tried to force americans to adopt the insurances we had European style.

But the problem this caused was we already had insurance fine here the problem was the job market and economic policies of companies becoming greedier and greedier.

But of course Obama just bailed out most of the corrupt companies that almost bankrupt us so now we aren't allowed to point the finger at them. So the people were blamed and thus insurance companies got even MORE power and thus we have no choice but to use State Healthcare because Obama made those insurance companies even more powerful now basically making cheap healthcare a thing of the past.

So Europeans go fuck yourself. If 'were such a backwards nation it's because we've spent billions we could have spent on ourselves and put it towards your piss ant of a country so you could fucking live and be protected from the Soviet Threat at the time.

Meanwhile we still get millions of immigrants moving into the USA every year and we get 0 thanks from you ungrateful fucks over seas. And if we were so dumb why the hell are millions of immigrants STILL moving to the USA and trying to get into our colleges and universities that have now become a social justice joke of an education now because we've made it so easy that even a retarded fuck from incest land farms can get into college ?

>>329575

No you dumbass it would make healthcare affordable to pre obama care levels. Too fucking bad most millennials weren't alive long enough to remember that healthcare was once affordable as all fuck but ooo no, CNN said healthcare was expensive so it must be true :^).

You all are drinking the propaganda kool aid so fucking hard it's not even funny anymore.

yes I'm mad because ignorant fucks are gonna be ignorant fucks and none of you are the wiser.

>>326827

>Also, probably the shittiest outcome was that when Employers were required to give healthcare to full time employees, they just cut their hours to avoid having to bite the bullet and pay more money.

Does anybody else thing we should require elected representatives and public officials to sit down and do a course on "How systems create incentives"?

Or at the very least hang posters in every politicians and government office that reads

People will always be dicks, they will find ways around the rules you are writing: BETA TEST YOUR SHIT GUYS!

I was on obamacare, its total shit. its private insurance at the point of a government gun, and the copays and deductibles are about 5 to 10 times more than regular private insurance.

>>326851

>IF they decide to get insurance

stay healty son

>>336899

the only reason that obama care functional right now is its using professionals who made themselves in a free market once the next generation take over americans will have healthcare on par with what veterans receive. and the VA is shit because they dont have the competition to keep them trying to keep customers

>>336903

You know why the medical industry is like that? its because the government has regulated that industry so much it keeps out much competition and it makes it incredibly hard to break into the medical business. So thats not big business but big brother

>>329455

Mcafee

>>329511

damn straigh cut socialized medicine

>>329536

>have a superior system where the health care is paid by tax money

thats a lie backed up by no facts. your health care is pad for by stolen money which hinders your economy and you cna only steal so much money before the people revolt or your economy starts to stagnate

>>329536

>The poor get free treatment but can get long queues in non-emergency cases, whereas private sector is basically the "skip the enqueue"-option for a price.

You're so cucked you think this is a good thing.

>>336755

This.

Bumping this back to the top.

>>336913

No, you spaz, it's everyone's fault.

>HMOs reject every claim they can on technicalities

>hospitals double bills to make up on it and don't care if other HMOs or uninsured get hit by it

>pharma companies have been hiking prices on their pills by %50,000 long before Turing showed up

>government tries to regulate, but it's so corrupt beyond being actually useful. as a result, individual mandates and HMO whitelisting takes the place of anything that would have been good from capitalism or socialism

>>338070

>implying Drumpf

>>329536

>Funny how burgers still refuse to realize many european countries -particularly in scandinavia- have a superior system where the health care is paid by tax money.

Blah blah blah. It's funny how Europoors still refuse to realize all US Americans had a superior system that wasn't a bullshit wealth redistribution scheme aka socialism.

Remind me again why I should be forced at gunpoint to provide the bix nood muh dik mufugga dindu muffins gibs me dats with free money and social services?

It's not altruism when you're forced at gunpoint to give to charity.

>>338352

>reposting a hoax

Not even a convincing one, they don't even look like the same person.

>>338081

Fuck you 1 percenter! It's about time.

>>330458

>I could be successful too

then why aren't you?

Michael Savage actually alluded to a lot of Trump's points in his plan back when he wrote Trickle Up Poverty.

Basically, let the market and the insurance companies figure out how to handle the preexisting conditions problem, let insurance companies compete in open competition to reduce costs, and hopefully use health savings plans as the vehicle of choice for insurance.

>>330458

>His daddy gave him millions.

No, he didn't. He loaned him one million, years ago, and thats pretty much chump change for starting businesses.

>>337653

Well, in a true capitalistic society, there would be open competition amongst the insurance companies across state lines.

Tort reform also helped reduce medical costs.

It's not just the insurance companies that are the problem with the old system. The problem also lies in the Briefcase Mafia. AKA lawyers.

Notice how the name of the healthcare system is "Obamacare" Does Obama really care about us?

>>336913

Doubt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCscKtQtfqk

Obamacare is an abomination that needs to be dumped.

So, if everyone hates Obamacare how did it ever become law any way?

>>339097

I could establish a gun shop in some of the curtilage on my property for about $10,000.

A million might be "chump change" for a real estate mogul, but it's an absurd figure for any small business.

>>345718

Congress used Michael Jackson's death as a smoke screen to pass it.

>>345797

Really? I guess that worked then.

>>339097

>No, he didn't. He loaned him one million, years ago, and thats pretty much chump change for starting businesses.

Yeah, maybe in zimbabwean dollars. With a million dollars, anyone can start a business and have enough to tide them over until they make money. Aside from that, Trump actually had loans given to him that he otherwise wouldn't have gotten, if not for his dad guaranteeing them at the insistence of the bankers and developers. So he actually had WAY more than a million to play with. More like tens of millions. Anyone else simply wouldn't get the financing or connections to build what he wanted to build. His dad was the builder and he was the one people dealt with. Donald basically just tagged along with daddy and got the benefits, basically pretending that he was big-wig financial wizard developing real estate deals.

>>346301

Good luck changing anyone's mind. Encase you don't notice, there really ain't many options besides Trump. He's the only candidate telling it like it is, and proposing logical solutions. Agree or disagree, shady past or not, take it or leave it. That's the way a lot of voters look at Trump, they don't have a better choice.

>logical solutions

There have literally been NONE.

Any candidate is better than Trump, in every conceivable way. They are smarter, more experienced, know more about things like foreign policy, don't lie at every opportunity, are not racist and xenophobic, fascist, endorse spying and breaking down of all privacy, etc. etc. The only people voting for Trump are average joe-shmo racists who think that somehow a billionaire who inherited his wealth is a lot like them. The blinders Trump has managed to put on that population is some kind of magic. (admittedly thought, they are not the smartest overall group of people. It's been proven that racist people have significantly lower IQs than average)

>>346323

So why are they the most populist class of the Republican party again?

>>346323

>"admittedly thought"

>thought

Kek

>>326822

>the most divisive and partisan President in American history

jesus christ you people are fucking stupid

germany has free medical (even for non-citizens), free education, mandatory and fully paid vacations, employment for everyone graduating from college, and i ask you why can't we?

because it would mean corporations and rich people have to start giving back more to the people that are helping make them rich.

>>346408

BINGO!

I hate to be the shill but I alive now only because of obamacare. Som dirty kike diagnosed me with COPD when I had lung disease. I could not get insurance in any case because I was had COPD in my twenties. I got insurance as soon as a could. 3 months later or exactly a year ago I went into septic shock and was barely alive in a sedated coma. The hospitals in my state are horrible and they know it so they sent my to Scripps in California (top 100 hospital in the world) on a 3 seater plane. I wonder if i would have racked up 3.1 million in costs with no insurance if I ever got in that plane or be fucking dead

>>346502

So Obamacare is your savior and nothing that it supplanted when it was enacted would have worked even better?

Are you implying X amount of $ you made other people spend, most likely in excess of your net worth when you finally die, is somehow adding to the holiness of Obamacare?

>"I hate to be the shill"

Not one difference was made.

Disclaimer: I dislike Obamacare, not you or insurance in general. No second response will come from me.

>>332018

Interesting, I never realized that. I imagine the MSM popularized the term however.

>>346323

So, what you're trying to say anon is that Trump is the absolute worst–except for all the others. Is that right?