No.338541
Donald J. Trump 4:19 p.m. EDT March 14, 2016
https://archive.is/xlQqY
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2016/03/14/donald-trump-tpp-trade-american-manufacturing-jobs-workers-column/81728584/
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11285447
>The American worker is being crushed. Workplace participation for women has declined by more than 3 percentage points since 2000. The percentage of men in their prime working years without a job has nearly tripled since the late 1960s. Median annual household incomes are down more than $4,000 from the beginning of the century.
>The great American middle class is disappearing.
>One of the factors driving this economic devastation is America’s disastrous trade policies. Throughout history, at the center of any thriving country has been a thriving manufacturing sector. But under decades of failed leadership, the United States has gone from being the globe’s manufacturing powerhouse — the envy of the world — through a rapid deindustrialization that has evaporated entire communities.
>The number of jobs and amount of wealth and income the United States have given way in so short a time is staggering, likely unprecedented.
>And the situation is about to get drastically worse if the Trans-Pacific Partnership is not stopped. One of the first casualties of the TPP will be America’s auto industry, and among the worst victims of this pact will be the people of Ohio. The TPP will send America’s remaining auto jobs to Japan. Yet, Gov. John Kasich, Sen. Ted Cruz and Sen. Marco Rubio have all promoted the Trans-Pacific Partnership — a mortal threat to American manufacturing.
>The TPP — a 12-nation pact — includes Vietnam, a country with vastly lower wages than the United States. Since there is a small market for U.S. goods in Vietnam, this will be an almost entirely one-sided arrangement as thousands of U.S. workers are laid off and production shipped to Vietnam instead.
>An Economic Policy Institute (EPI) analysis found that Ohio has already lost more than 100,000 jobs to TPP countries. If the deal is enacted as Kasich has urged, those numbers will skyrocket.
>TPP is the biggest betrayal in a long line of betrayals where politicians have sold out U.S. workers.
>America’s politicians — beholden to global corporate interests who profit from offshoring — have enabled jobs theft in every imaginable way. They have tolerated foreign trade cheating while enacting trade deals that encourage companies to shift production overseas. In recent days, for instance, we have seen Carrier air conditioning lay off 1,400 workers and move to Mexico.
>Since the North American Free Trade Agreement was signed in 1993, we’ve lost approximately 900,000 jobs to Mexico alone, pro-labor EPI found. Yet Gov. Kasich voted for NAFTA, just like he now supports TPP.
>China has been one of the worst offenders. While promoting China's addition to the World Trade Organization in 2001, the U.S. agreed to permanently confer on China what is known as "most favored nation" trading status. EPI estimates that the United States has lost 3 million jobs to China since that decision was made.
>Overall, since 1997 — driven by NAFTA and China — the U.S. has lost nearly one-third of its manufacturing jobs, EPI analysis shows. We’ve lost over 80,000 factories during that time.
>Countries like China and Japan devalue their currencies to put American companies at a structural disadvantage — making our goods artificially expensive and foreign goods artificially cheap. The result is that American companies can’t fairly compete against these countries, whether selling our products here or abroad.
>At the same time, foreign countries heavily subsidize their products, and even engage in a tactic known as “product dumping” — where foreign competitors will dump huge quantities of underpriced goods into U.S. markets for the sole purpose of driving American factories out of business.
>The deck is further stacked against American workers because foreign countries — which make billions selling to our markets — keep U.S. goods out of theirs. Japan, for instance, refuses to provide open access to U.S. car makers in Japanese dealerships. These non-tariff barriers make it impossible for American manufacturers to compete. TPP will fling our doors open to more Japanese cars while leaving their doors largely shut to ours.
. . .
The man speaks for himself.
No.338546
implement the 45% import tax on China, Mexico and Japan (and the rest of east Asia) and keep it until they quit fraudulently under-valuing their currencies and open their markets.
Call their bluff, they've been calling ours for decades.
No.338558
>>338546
This. I'm sure some sort of incremental tax will be implemented under the Trump administration. Once the jobs are back and MAGA is in full swing, then they will gradually be increased until the playing field is at least level.
This speaks very clearly to how the Chinese govt. has been raping America for decades now.
>At the same time, foreign countries heavily subsidize their products, and even engage in a tactic known as “product dumping” — where foreign competitors will dump huge quantities of underpriced goods into U.S. markets for the sole purpose of driving American factories out of business.
It needs to stop, and it's way overdue.
No.338562
If there's one thing the man understands, it's business.
TPP is fucking evil and destroying our involvement with it will be one of the best legacies of Trump.
No.338570
No.338579
No.338589
>>338579
Vote for McAfee or Paul then anon. They are the only candidates that don't.
This issue isn't the NSA, btw. We're at war. Even if we weren't they have an important role to play outside our borders. The issue is the unwarranted en masse dragnet style surveillance going on against American citizens.
No.338611
>>338541
Trump understands making deals and that deals, not free phones and handouts are what make the world go around.
Expect greatness. Expect Trump.
No.338625
>>338611
I certainly don't understand dealmaking/horsetrading, and I'm not sure from reading his editorial what he means to use as leverage against the Chinese, et al, to make a deal about.
I mean, you both have to bring something to the table to deal right? Is it just the very threat of a 50% import tax or something?
No.338629
>>338625
>Is it just the very threat of a 50% import tax or something?
It's ALL about leverage at that level. As president, if there's a consensus amongst the population, then the POTUS goes to China and says "our citizens want fairness with respect to trade," and they work it out.
Each side starts with their position and then they meet half way to each achieve some measure of win.
No.338633
>>338625
Trump big waves about "product dumping" are also being heard by politicians.
See http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-imposes-266-duty-on-some-chinese-steel-imports-1456878180
The threat and the actual tariffs will open negotiation I think.
No.338635
>>338629
>>338633
>chkd
I see. Thanks anons.
No.338638
>>338579
Hey Rand Paul, NSA means jack shit, its a buzzword used by Cuckservatives because they're too chickenshit to talk about real issues.
that the NSA datamines trillions of variables has absolutely no immediate, tangible impact on the daily lives of Americans, unlike trade and immigration.
No.338640
>>338625
Access to the largest consumer market in the world. The reality is that we have a massive amount of leverage on that basis alone.
They want to sell shit to us. We can use this to make them play on our terms.
No.338645
>>338640
I see, thanks anon.
No.338646
>>338625
>the threat
yes, such a tax would wreck China's export-based economy because they depend on our consumerism.
but because China exports so much, its true that a general increase in prices would occur but that's the whole point: increase the prices on Chinese products to make room for American based growth.
Besides, forcing China to quit under-valuing their currency would cause prices to increase again anyway.
that means Black-Friday-ism and people who depend on retail therapy are going to have to learn how to live frugally and keep their sights focused on the long-run. I'm not confident that our population can do that, but I know I'm ready and I 100% support such a policy.
No.338648
>>338646
Yeah, I'm not too sure I really got the idea of the currency thing before but apparently it's pretty simple. Thanks anon, good post.
No.338649
>>338646
>live frugally
>Burgerland
This will take a miracle for us from God.
No.338651
>>338625
now, Cuckservatives will say "ohhh but China will call all their U.S. treasury bonds as retaliation, which we can't pay, and that'll start a war!"
the reality is that we no longer have the economic means to pay all those treasury bonds anyway because the fiscal base the government requires to liquidate that deficit isn't there; I think slightly less than half of the people in America pay an income tax, which accounts for almost 60 percent of all federal taxation. The taxable base continues to shrink and consequentially an ever growing portion of the population requires subsidization, thus diverting what taxable revenue remains even more from international obligations, and of course the Chinese know this.
So "calling the treasury bonds" is completely fucking meaningless, China really wouldn't be able to do anything. The only thing preventing it are corporations.
No.338656
>>338651
I'm not sure I really understood all that anon, but thanks for the information. not you're fault btw, i'm just ignorant atp about such matters. like i said, i don't know.
I may understand things better as the election/administration proceeds on.
No.338669
>Donald SCUMp inherited his wealth
No.338674
TRUMP WILL END NSA SURVEILLANCE
No.338683
File: 1457998209341.jpg (124.69 KB, 1024x466, 512:233, CdZPORYUsAA3fhi.jpg large.jpg)
No.338690
>>338683
Commie bastard, pack him off to Somefuckistan. see for how long he'd stand proud shitting on their national flag.
No.338692
File: 1457998696632.jpg (157.89 KB, 845x1023, 845:1023, 845px-Donald_Trump_by_Gage….jpg)
Donald Trump is a self made Billionaire.
No.338695
>>338656
It works like this
Chinese government directly suppresses consumption of their population, in conjunction with Chinese corporations: there is no consumerism there, everyone saves. This skyrockets the level of Capital savings of China because then everyone re-invests their income into the country's central banking system.
Corporations then can take massive loans from this surplus of cash to re-invest into production/manufacturing technology, making their manufacturing sector very strong.
Huge capital savings also dilutes their currency's worth, making it far less "valuable" relative to other currencies, meaning a Chinese worker costs far less than an American one. Thus, American companies outsource their manufacturing to China.
China acquires more manufacturing, meaning others depend on their products, meaning the capital savings continues to skyrocket. However, if China can't reinvest the surplus savings, then their currency would collapse, so the central bank invests all the extra money in the safest and most liquid financial asset; treasury bonds, specifically U.S. treasury bonds.
Also, no one exports to China because the Chinese don't allow foreign imports, and they can do this because they have all the manufacturing, so they're self-sufficient. And when corporations outsource their operations to China, they have to bring all their manufacturing technology along, which the Chinese appropriate for their own advantage.
all of this depends on making the Chinese currency very low compared to the Dollar because that's how the costs remain low, which is what the Chinese central bank does. They do it by simply refusing to disclose what exactly is happening or lying, or nothing and just allow the market fundamentalist dogma of U.S. economics to perpetuate the myth of Chinese under-performance. But its not just the Central bank, the Chinese economic policy, which is extremely protectionist, also enables this major disparity in currency value since they literally invest in nothing about the dollar except its own debt.
No.338724
>>338541
So instead of outright opposing the TTP, he now just wants some fucking modifications for it?
Fuck, Sanders is really the only fucking option left. And knowing that he can't win against Shillary anyway, everything seems truly fucked.
Hell, Drumpf really needed to flip on the most important part, couldn't contain it to all the other shit he spouts that was nonsense anyway.
No.338731
>>338724
>So instead of outright opposing the TTP, he now just wants some fucking modifications for it?
No, you just lack reading comprehension skills.
No.338737
>>338638
>implying cuckservatives aren't in favor of the NSA
>implying upholding the constitution has no impact on Americans
so much for constitutionalism being a conservative standpoint
No.338744
>>338589
>>338601
>This issue isn't the NSA, btw. We're at war.
lol, for the duration huh?
>Orwell pic
okay faggot I'll bite, get ready for some Theory and Practice of Oligarchical Collectivism
>War, however, is no longer the desperate, annihilating struggle that it was in the early decades of the Twentieth Century. It is a war of limited aims between combatants unable to destroy one another
>To understand the nature of the present war – for in spite of the regrouping which occurs every few years, it is always the same war – one must realize that it is impossible for it to be decisive.
>And at the same time the consequences of being at war, and therefore in danger, makes the handing over of all power to a small caste seem the natural, unavoidable condition of survival
>In other words, it is necessary that he should have the mentality appropriate to a state of war. It does not matter whether the war is actually happening, and, since no decisive victory is possible, it does not matter whether the war is going well or badly. All that is needed is that a state of war should exist.
>Meanwhile no Inner Party member wavers for an instant in his mystical belief that the war is real, and that it is bount to end victoriously, with Oceania the undisputed master of the world.
>Their lives are dedicated to world conquest, but they know that it is necessary that the war should continue everlastingly and without victory.
>War, it will be seen, is now a purely internal affair.
>The war is waged by each ruling group against its own subjects, and the object of the war is not to make or prevent conquests of territory, but to keep the structure of society intact. The very word "war," therefore, has become misleading. It would probably be accurate to say that by becoming continuous war has ceased to exist.
>As for the problem of overproduction, which has been latent in our society since the development of machine technique, it is solved by the device of continuous warfare (see Chapter 3), which is also useful in keying up public morale to the necessary pitch.
Tell me when this 'war' on an abstract concept (le drugs, le terror, etc.) will be won or at least over, how much more bullshit I have to go through to make that victory or peace happen, and how it's physically possible to triumph over a fucking idea. Or fuck off.
No.338746
>>338737
The NSA can't spy on you if you're too poor from trade imbalances.
No.338802
Donald Trump is a self made Billionaire.
No.338815
>>338805
If not Trump then who should I vote for?
>inb4 "Don't vote goy!"
No.338827
>>338805
Reminder that so are the alternatives and you're deflecting criticisms from them to blindly slander Trump
>inb4 don't vote because it doesn't matter
If it doesn't matter then you wouldn't be telling people who to vote for, shill
No.338862
>>338625
>I certainly don't understand dealmaking/horsetrading, and I'm not sure from reading his editorial what he means to use as leverage against the Chinese, et al, to make a deal about.
>I mean, you both have to bring something to the table to deal right? Is it just the very threat of a 50% import tax or something?
Every country we trade with ships more goods to us than we do to them. They are all replaceable with another sweatshop labor country.
Europe is the only other consumer market anywhere near what ours is, and with the currency devalueations and negative interest rates they have been implementing thier market share will shrink in the future.
In other words all the sweatshop producers NEED to sell to us or they go broke and colapse. We can take our pick of which one of them we want to use. If we had a leader with the balls to say "only the best deal offered to us gets to trade with us, make my day faggots" they would all come groveling to be that chosen producer.
No.338864
>>338651
>now, Cuckservatives will say "ohhh but China will call all their U.S. treasury bonds as retaliation, which we can't pay, and that'll start a war!
You can't "call in" a bond. A 10 year treasury last for 10 years then it is paid back. A 30 lasts for 30 years. A 5 lasts for 5. You cant just "call them in" whenever you feel like it, you have to wait for them to reach their term then they are paid back.
No.338920
>>338724
No, he's stated clearly he intends to end our involvement with the TPP.
No.338941
>>338611
I just wanted to clear something up, the free phones thing was a plan that started under Regan.
No.338971
Libertarians go on about the NSA but never talk about corporations collecting data.
No.339008
>>338695
>>338862
Thanks anons, I appreciate the explanation that helps.
No.339013
>yet another le trump thread
No.339014
>>338562
>If there's one thing the man understands, it's bankruptcy.
ftfy
If the U.S. could just declare bankruptcy and start over, I'd agree that he would be the man for the job.
No.339015
>>339013
But of course. This is do/n/aldjtrump. Isn't it so much better than crabs and DESIGNATED?
No.339016
>>338649
>Pay for things with cash when possible
>Don't buy a new TrendPhone 720 or TV every year
>Take shorter showers and unplug your shit when you're not using it
>Buy a shit house and work up instead of paying every month for a shit apartment in perpetuity
>Ride a bike to work or take public transit
>Don't drink or smoke
>Eat out less and learn to cook more than ramen
At least some of those things are possible for anyone, even if not all of them are for everyone. Doing any of them will save you money.
No.339022
My students are starting to ask questions that I can't answer. Most of them are pretty scared. Most of them have stopped going into town, except when necessary, and I don't blame them.
I can't understand anything about this. I have no answers for them.
No.339026
>>338683
>>338690
>>338692
What a smug little pussy he is. Can't wait for him to eat a bullet.
No.339084
>>339015
Wrong. We are the ber/n/ie bros.
No.339109
>>338611
>Trump understands making deals
Like thaose that lead to hios complete bancrupcy?
I mean, you do know that he is next tot totally broke, otherwise he wouldn't withhold his IRS statement and make them public, like every other fucking scumbag that's running for a candidacy.
No.339111
>>339014
>I don't understand business: the post
I am getting really fucking tired of hearing this argument. Google for corporate bankruptcy and learn how it can be used as a business tool to liquidate assets during takeovers and other ways it can actually be used as a selling or business tool. Hate Trump if you want but hate him for the right reasons.
>>339109
I assume this is you as well, but if not the same goes for you. If you think Trump is "broke" you're truly fucking retarded. If he had zero - zero! - liquid assets and sold all his other assets vis a vis his shares in business or his properties he'd still be unbelievably wealthy. Think. Read things.
No.339116
>>338864
>>338864
You're wrong. Clauses can be agreed on that provide acceleration; calling of bonds in full due to a collapse in responsibility of the borrower. Terms arre formal arrangements only.
No.339124
No.339191
>>339109
>you do know that he is next tot totally broke
. . .
No.339211
Donald Trump is a self made Billionaire.
No.339225
>>339211
To be fair, he was given a head start. That doesn't change the fact that he exponentially increased it, however
No.339228
>>339225
>replying to a bot
No.339244
>>339228
No, I'm lampooning a bot.
No.339251
>>339244
>checked
Welcome to the machine. We'll talk again more closely on Jan 20th
No.339492
>disappearing middle class
>there is no lower middle class now, they're the same as those a check away from utter poverty
This has slowly been going on since the 80s, how does Donald plan to fix this? I need numbers and cited plans.
No.339501
>>339492
>I need numbers and cited plans.
Why anon, have a better plan already well defined and ready to roll now? I'm sure the Trump administration could benefit from you're enlightened wisdom.
The general guidance laid down in this editorial is some kind of start. I'm sure it will be fleshed out more fully before November. Just be patient, this is a process.
No.339524
>>339492
First of all, you don't need numbers. Trump is the only person even addressing this issue, so whatever he is thinking is better than the 0 you'll get from any other candidate.
Second, we already know his plans.
Immigration, both legal and illegal, depresses wages. He wants to stop illegal immigration and restrict legal immigration, which will lower unemployment and raise wages.
"Free trade" deals in which we offer free trade and everyone else fucks us over took a ton of jobs out of our country. He's canning "free trade" and bringing jobs back.
He's basically going to undo the things that our corrupt politicians did to fuck us over in the first place. More jobs for fewer people means more competition for labor, which leads to higher wages and better conditions for workers.
No.339542
>>339524
This. Plus other things like pic related that have been steadily undermining the buying power of the little guy.
No.339557
>>339225
And lost it multiple times over.
But keep beliving him, goy.Vote for the best friend the goyim can have, okay.
No.339638
The Don will set a whole new trend in hair fashion tbh smh.
No.339644
>>338546
>>338558
>>338611
>>338633
>>338920
>>339111
>>339524
>doesn't know that Trump himself is taking jobs away from Americans
>Jires immigrants to build his "empire" & clean his hotels
>His business is in China
>claims to hate China
>hypocrite
>liar
>general retard
>>338562
>If there's one thing the man understands, it's business.
That's backwards & what we're trying to move away from. This country being ran like a business is what's destroyed our economy. This is what happens when checks & balances are abused or in other words, deregulated.
He's a business man. And he will vote in favor of business dealings over the interests of the citizens, you can be assured. Can't blame him, we all work to benefit our own self interests. It's only natural.
>TPP is fucking evil and destroying our involvement with it will be one of the best legacies of Trump.
You got the first half of that right.
The TPP will affect him directly since he owns businesses overseas. A clear conflict of interest.
No.339658
Heads up all. Soros is funding Kaisch. We will see greater attacks on the trump.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyj_56w2FGc
No.339661
>>339524
>Trump is the only person even addressing this issue, so whatever he is thinking is better than the 0 you'll get from any other candidate.
>Bernie Sanders' entire platform
Do you even politics, anon?
>"Free trade" deals in which we offer free trade and everyone else fucks us over took a ton of jobs out of our country. He's canning "free trade" and bringing jobs back.
Lmao. He should start by practicing what he preaches, by shutting down his companies overseas & bringing them back to the US. He has a clear conflict of interest in free trade.
>He's basically going to undo the things that our corrupt politicians did to fuck us over in the first place. More jobs for fewer people means more competition for labor, which leads to higher wages and better conditions for workers.
>He's basically going to undo the things that our corrupt politicians did to fuck us over in the first place.
Hahaha.. Please God, don't tell me you believe this. Again, he has to start with his own culpability in this. By stopping hiring & shipping in immigrants to take jobs of Americans.
No.339694
>>339682
Well.. do you?
Care to comment on the substance of the post?
I find it funny that Trump supporters say that Bernie's supporters never talk policy, but it's more so the Trump fans who avoid these conversations. Here they usually just spam random memes in response & just call the other person retarded or a commie, instead of engaging the substance of an argument against Trump or pro-Sanders.
No.339715
>>338692
>>338802
>>339211
>self made
>trust fund baby
Pick one. There can be only one.
No.339834
No.339853
>>339644
>The TPP will affect him directly since he owns businesses overseas. A clear conflict of interest.
And any poltard that got told this months ago is desperatley trying to damage control now that he started backapddling on TPP as well.
No.339860
>>338827
>other candidates support it
link or fuck off and put the cock back in your mouth
>u say my vote doesn't matter
fucking where, schitzoid?
>anything bad you say about my bumchum is slander whether it's true or not
now where have I heard that before in the last year or two? pic not even a little bit related at all :^)
No.339898
>>339524
>First of all, you don't need numbers.
what
why the fuck would I not need numbers. otherwise, these are just empty promises.
No.339942
>>339661
>Sanders
I said "candidate", not "Clinton fundraiser". I know they both start with Cs which makes it confusing, but try to keep the difference in mind.
>He should start by practicing what he preaches
One's duties are tied to one's position. He is not in politics yet, so he has no obligation to do what he says people in politics should do. As a businessman, he has different duties.
Businessmen have to do what is best for their businesses. They actually have a legal obligation to do so, in many cases. If they don't, they can generally be sued in civil court and sometimes face criminal charges as well.
He has been telling people for the entirety of his run that the government needs to make the best choice for businesses the best choice for the country and its people because you can't expect businessmen to make a bad business decision.
>>339898
>why the fuck would I not need numbers.
Because of the rest of that sentence you didn't bother quoting or reading. Moron.
>numbers make things not empty promises!
No, actually, they don't. These numbers you swear by are so easily manipulated that they mean nothing.
We have 3% unemployment, right?
No.340141
>>339942
Trump Damage Control: The Post.
That was painful, anon.
>I said "candidate", not "Clinton fundraiser". I know they both start with Cs which makes it confusing, but try to keep the difference in mind.
>One's duties are tied to one's position. He is not in politics yet, so he has no obligation to do what he says people in politics should do. As a businessman, he has different duties.
>Businessmen have to do what is best for their businesses. They actually have a legal obligation to do so, in many cases. If they don't, they can generally be sued in civil court and sometimes face criminal charges as well.
>He has been telling people for the entirety of his run that the government needs to make the best choice for businesses the best choice for the country and its people because you can't expect businessmen to make a bad business decision.
I don't even have to respond, just highlight your retarded attempt at justification, so others can see it again to really appreciate it.
No.340200
>>340141
Seems pretty reasonable. Guess you're the dumb one, friendo
No.340216
>>340200
Likely samefag.
>Seems reasonable! His logic is impeccable, tbh fam
His comment just reinforced what I'd said. So there's really no reason to take on each specific detail all over again. No need to repeat myself.
And I just woke up, so if need be, I'll do so shortly.
No.340230
>>340141
Wait, you just greentexted and reposted his entire comment without commentary - as a form of rebuttal? Are you serious, how autistic are you?
What the fuck is wrong with you, don't you rubes even remember how an argument works any longer!?
No.340235
>>340230
ABSOLUTELY BUTTRAVAGED
That was all that was needed, anon. The only autist here is the one who doesn't understand that. The rebuttal was my original comment. >>339661 Since he just doubled down on his original statements.
You want me to specify & rebut? I'll just be repeating myself. But, here, just for you:
Trump is a massive hypocrite. He complains about China, yet uses Chinese labor & has his businesses there. He complains about immigrants taking American jobs, but uses immigrant labor religiously. Taking jobs from America himself, does the opposite of Making America Great Again.
If he runs the country like a successful business, these policies would be large-scale. Lmao, only a tard can't see this.
No.340243
>>338541
>The American worker is being crushed.
The language is similar to another great man.
TIME TO GET HYPED LADS
No.340357
>Donald Dump inherited most of his wealth
No.345618
If Trump does nothing but end the TPP in the US, he will be the hero we need.
No.345625
>>339644
So why do you hate America, anon?
No.345639
>>340235
>He complains about immigrants taking American jobs, but uses immigrant labor religiously.
>religiously
You guys don't even try anymore. You used to at least make a solid effort.
No.345641
>>345625
>>345639
Fuck your ad hominems, faggot. Bring something to the table.
No.345645
>>345639
legal vs. illegal. it's the chief difference there. i know plenty of legal latinos i know and respect. i don't like even getting near the neighborhood the illegals have basically taken over now.
No.345652
>>345639
The way you try to distract from the core issue at hand just tells that you have no idea what to say against it.
No.345660
>>345641
>Fuck your ad hominems
That doesn't mean what you think it does. I insulted you, it's different to an Ad Hom.
>>345645
>legal vs. illegal. it's the chief difference there
Well aside from the fact that it doesn't matter whether they're illegal or not and I still don't want non-whites in the country, Trump's usage of non-white immigrant labor is minimal at best.
>>345652
The classic "if you're hating you just know I'm right!" shit. You try to replace hate with apathy, and make hate into agreement. I know what to say against it, you're demonstrably wrong and have no idea what you're on about, conflating a multi-national businessman using labor from many countries with abuse of the H1-B program,
No.345664
>>345660
Actually, legal latinos tend to be some of the more conservative people I know. Mostly Catholic or Christian families, they really do love being a part of America and work hard. Honestly I have a lot of respect for them.
Illegals however, are an entirely different story…
:P
No.345665
Anti-Trump shill has no argument.
Can't even comprehend role conflict, something they teach in retard sociology classes for niggers and feminists.
That's par for the course.
No.345666
>>345664
>Actually, legal latinos tend to be some of the more conservative people I know
Then their country needs them.
No.345667
>>345666
>checked
Correct. We do.
No.345669
>>345667
They aren't our people and you know it.
Boys raised by wolves aren't suddenly canines.
No.345671
>>345669
Well regardless, If Trump builds the wall then you should have less to be upset about them.
No.345673
>>345660
>That doesn't mean what you think it does. I insulted you, it's different to an Ad Hom.
Seriously, anon? And you just doubled down with it, too, lmao. Still no argument.
ad ho·mi·nem
ˌad ˈhämənəm/
adverb & adjective
1.
(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
No.345684
>>345660
>conflating a multi-national businessman using labor from many countries with abuse of the H1-B program
First of all, the person you replied to wasn't me, who wrote the original.
He abusing the program, anon. He could've found Americans with these "skills", but wanted cheap labor instead. It also goes to the fact he's a goddamn hypocrite. Using the program he accuses of taking American jobs.
>Trump's usage of non-white immigrant labor is minimal at best.
Minimal? He owns how many hotels? Have you ever seen a non-immigrant maid at a hotel or cooking in these places? It's almost exclusively immigrant.
Just like I mentioned earlier, which you conveniently ignore, he also has factories in China & uses slave labor. Since he didn't want to pay Americans a living wage. He'll sacrifice you in an instant for profit.
He's a plutocrat, anon. You're fighting for someone who'd literally shit on you, given the opportunity.
No.345689
>>345684
Nah, hypocrites don't engender strong loyalty anon. Trump's people love him.
No.345691
>>339644
>He's a business man.
The way he talks, he's planning to treat the United States as his business. The way his tax plan is explained, it looks like his idea is he's competing for taxes with other countries, which is why he's going after tax havens but lowering taxes overall in the US.
>>339661
To be fair, m8, Sen. Sanders wants to tax me 17% of my income. Mr. Trump wants to tax me 0%. I'm going to roll with the guy that is going to let me keep more of my check while I'm working in college.
No.345720
>>345689
Shit argument.
Poorly educated do however give strong loyalty, when they don't know any better. They make up a large portion of Trump's fanbase.
>>345691
>The way he talks, he's planning to treat the United States as his business. The way his tax plan is explained, it looks like his idea is he's competing for taxes with other countries, which is why he's going after tax havens but lowering taxes overall in the US.
>treat the United States as his business
Which would mean move more factories overseas, stash money offshore, pay as least as possible for labor, less regulation for safety in the workplace.
>his tax plan
>competing for taxes with other countries
We shouldn't be competing with anything except for our military, when it comes to other countries. This explains why he's backtracked heavily on the TPP, saying he'd "renegotiate it. He first said we should get rid of these terrible trade deals. These deals affect him directly in regards to business, so it's more than a conflict of interest. He also said he'd transfer ownership of his companies to his children, if elected. That change would be in name-only.
>To be fair, m8, Sen. Sanders wants to tax me 17% of my income. Mr. Trump wants to tax me 0%. I'm going to roll with the guy that is going to let me keep more of my check while I'm working in college.
So this means you make anywhere from $37,650 to $250,000/year. This means your taxes would go actually down based on current tax brackets.
http://taxfoundation.org/article/2015-tax-brackets
Looks like you should be rolling with Bernie, m8. ;)
No.345726
>>345720
>Shit argument.
Not so. You know little of human nature imo if you think that point irrelevant. It says much about the man's character and how he will run the White House when he is elected President in November.
No.345737
>>345726
>if you think that point irrelevant.
Not irrelevant, but untrue. He is a hypocrite. And his fanbase does largely contain poorly educated voters. It's rare I run into a Trump supporter who can actually debate issues other than using shit memes or ad hominem.
>It says much about the man's character and how he will run the White House when he is elected President in November.
What does? Lmao.
No.345750
>>345737
>Lmao
The nature of a man's character is best judged by others, not by himself. If men and women who work hard for him as an employer almost universally exhibit a profound loyalty to the man which by all accounts they do, it says a tremendous amount about his nature. What's hard to understand about how that will translate over to his administration? It's a rather apparent analogy.
>have a mem so you'll feel better heh
No.345751
>>345691
>>345720
Also, good luck in college. :) It's great you're furthering your education & working simultaneously. We need more doing so.
No.345755
>>345750
>The nature of a man's character is best judged by others, not by himself.
I couldn't agree more, anon.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/trump_favorableunfavorable-5493.html
No.345758
Manufacturing is never coming back to the US, at least not anywhere near where it once was. Any candidate who promises to "Bring back the factories from overseas!!" are pandering to nostalgic fools who wish they could make an honest living the same way their grandpa did.
Human labor is worth less and less each day. We are approaching the singularity – or rather, the singularity is approaching us. The average American serves no economic purpose other than to spend money they don't have on shit they don't need.
No.345768
>>345758
It's a pitifully sad state of affairs.
A dangerous one if war were to break out, any time soon. We need steel mills/factories for our own defense. These plutocrats could give a shit less about this, though. They'll just take a plane ride out of the states(if they aren't already out). Most feel no sense of patriotism toward their country.
It also makes me think about how the explosion of world population has contributed to this endless supply of cheap labor. These trade deals have fucked America, royally.
No.345780
>>345755
And of course, the people closest to him know his character best. For example the people who work for him day in and day out.
As opposed, say, to pundits heeling to their globalist masters…
No.345783
>>345768
>These trade deals have fucked America, royally.
This. At the least however, having a hard-nosed businessman who actually cares about the country in charge of making the deals will at least bring the balance back towards America's favor.
No.345784
You can't dump the Trump.
No.345788
>>345784
>pic
It's disgraceful imo.
No.345795
>>345780
>>345783
samefag
:)
>>345784
>>345788
samefag
>>345780
Sure, just deny reality & public opinion of your candidate. We'll see how it works in the general election.
>globalist masters
Like Trump?
>>345783
Trump cares about America so much, he neglects it professionally, then complains about the damage he's done, lol.
No.345819
>>345795
>We'll see how it works in the general election.
We will indeed. See you then friendo.
:D
>Like Trump?
No, like Soros.
No.345835
>>345819
Trump as well, tard.
>conveniently ignores Koch brothers
>Soros
Net worth of around 14 billion
>Koch bros
Net worth of almost 100 billion
No.345839
>>345835
Koch Brothers ofc, thx.
No, Trump isn't in the pockets of these men. The rabid assaults against him are proof sufficient of that to my satisfaction (as well as most people's).
Ironically, it's all this over the top effort to destroy that will backfire and catapult Trump straight into the Oval Office.
>the tears will be delicious
No.345842
>>345839
>Trump isn't in the pockets of these men.
Because he doesn't need to be. He is them - A plutocrat.
>The rabid assaults against him are proof sufficient of that to my satisfaction (as well as most people's).
Sometimes business men disagree. Especially when it comes to stealing some of their power for themselves.
>Ironically, it's all this over the top effort to destroy that will backfire and catapult Trump straight into the Oval Office.
Trump will destroy himself, I agree, no added effort from outside forces is necessary. Just take a look at the polls on his unfavorability with voters. It far outweighs his favorability.
No.345846
>Donald Trump inherited all of his wealth
No.345855
No.345898
>>345842
>A plutocrat.
Lol nope. He's heavily vested in the welfare of the country at the least for his own business interests here. But I believe his concern for the nation is very real. I'm certainly not alone either.
No.345904
>>338611
I expect the fascist elites will not play fair come time for nomination and will do whatever it takes to stop him, even by instigating another JFK-style event.
Get prepared for the worst. Likely we are on the verge of a free-fall leading straight to hell on Earth.
No.345932
>>345904
>JFK-style event
?
Did they stop JFK during a convention anon?
No.346058
>>345855
>deflecting blame
No one said anything about Unions. But at least workers have more say, from Unions. It's much more ethical to have donations from Unions than it is two brothers from a single family.
>those second links are broken
Lmao, such evidence, so proof.
And do you think the Koch brothers donate their wealth directly? You're a special kind of stupid, if you do. They have many superPACs, "non-profits", organizations/foundations & "advocacy groups". They disguise it from most uneducated Americans.
No.346061
>>345898
>Lol nope
Not an argument. And it's a fact, he is. His campaign & the power he yields from his wealth is evidence of this.
>He's heavily vested in the welfare of the country at the least for his own business interests here.
Citations needed, faggot.
>But I believe his concern for the nation is very real. I'm certainly not alone either.
That's your fault for being uneducated. I'm sorry, anon.
No.346073
>>346061
>And it's a fact, he is
not an argument heh.
lol nope
Also, if you need basic help even naming trump's business ventures why do you feel qualified to condemn him? Seem a bit, well, hypocritical to me hehe.
You're sort of losing it anon. Maybe you and Shillary can go take a nap over in the quiet room?
No.346079
>>346073
>not an argument heh.
>lol nope
Stay in denial anon, it only hurts you.
>Also, if you need basic help even naming trump's business ventures why do you feel qualified to condemn him? Seem a bit, well, hypocritical to me hehe.
You're sort of losing it anon. Maybe you and Shillary can go take a nap over in the quiet room?
This much damage control. Still presents no argument.
No.346080
>>346058
>gets arguments destroyed
>responds with doge speak
>and claims that working links are broken
>and conspiracy theory-riddled bullshit about how they must be hiding their money
>despite the fact that you can look up personal donations on the FEC website
>then claims "lol u a dummyhead cuz u pointed out that Fahr LLC gave $75 million when Koch Industries have $10 million"
No.346082
No.346086
>>346080
The links are broken.
>Has no argument
>continues to shitpost
>post meme
>lies
>post meme
It's not a conspiracy, it's fact. Americans for Prosperity foundation being one of their more infamous. They bankrolled Scott Walker's campaign & it's the only reason he won.
No.346090
>>346086
Is that really all you have? A buzzword and a "NO U" argument?
No.346092
>>346090
>being trolled this easily
No.346093
>>346092
THIS IS /n/, FAGGOT. EVERYTHING MUST BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY AND AT FACE VALUE
FAILURE TO DO SO IS TREASON. TREASON IS PUNISHABLE BY DEATH.
No.346096
>>338646
>that means Black-Friday-ism and people who depend on retail therapy are going to have to learn how to live frugally and keep their sights focused on the long-run.
Not necessarily, the demand for black-fridayism and retail therapy is still as great as it ever has been, and a decline in chinese exports would only mean that American firms fill that demand instead which would create a lot of jobs and stimulate our industries. Remember, supply always conforms to demand, not the other way around, and a lack of supply does not reduce demand, it merely reduces consumption because high demand+ low supply = high prices and less consumption, the demand is still there and is as big as it ever has been.
No.346098
>>338541
>TPP will fling our doors open to more Japanese cars while leaving their doors largely shut to ours.
This isn't necessarily true. Japan is in the list of countries to lose it's protectionist policies come the TPP.
But the sentiment is correct yes.
No.346210
>>345720
17 apparently is less than 0
No.346286
>>345673
Uh, no, he was right.
Ad hominem is only when one person attacks the presenter's character as a means of refuting his point. Ex: "You're clearly a faggot, therefore your stance on presidents is completely wrong" IS ad hominem.
What HE did, was just insult you. Ex: "You're clearly a faggot" is a simple opinion - It is not ad hominem because he was not trying to refute your claim. Just stating his own.
No.346335
>>338541
Yes goys, support Chump! He's there to fight for you!
No.346924
>>346286
>thinking he wasn't using the attack as a means of refuting
No.347231
>>346925
I love Israel too. I vote Trump.
>BTW Israel =/= that George Soros snake
MAGA
No.347274
Dumping the TPP is YUGE, but a more immediate improvement to the lives of the average American are Trump's tax reforms:
>let's see if I can make this work
Income Tax Rate Long Term Cap Gains/ Dividends Rate Single Filers Married Filers Heads of Household
0% 0% $0 to $25,000 $0 to $50,000 $0 to $37,500
10% 0% $25,001 to $50,000 $50,001 to $100,000 $37,501 to $75,000
20% 15% $50,001 to $150,000 $100,001 to $300,000 $75,001 to $225,000
25% 20% $150,001 and up $300,001 and up $225,001 and up
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/tax-reform
No.347276
>>347274
ehh, sorry about the crappy formatting. you can read it on the site if you want to.
No.347372
>>347231
>BTW Israel =/= that George Soros snake
And neither does it equal Bernie Sanders. :)
>>347274
First of all.. How u do dat? That's pretty cool.
Secondly, Trump has changed positions on the TPP, he no longer wants to repeal it. He wants to "renegotiate it"/improve it.
No.347378
>>347372
Oh, I'd love it if Bernie got the nod from the Dems.
No.347385
>>347372
>Trump has changed positions on the TPP, he no longer wants to repeal it. He wants to "renegotiate it"/improve it.
He wants to scrap the current TPP and make a new one that would actually be beneficial for America, *unlike the current TPP which screws hard working Americans over. Likely other nations wouldn't like that plan as much, but too bad. We need a fair deal. Not a commie free-for-all screwjob against the American middle class.
No.347386
>>347372
> How u do dat?
Code tags anon. Just put the first one ahead, and the second one behind whatever text you want to have monospacing.
>pic related.
>TPP position.
Well that really sucks! It was certainly one of his best tentpoles of all.
No.347389
>>347274
It's a great tax plan. This will help millions of hard working Americans save money once again and be able to have a little left over to spend and help local economies too.
No.347391
>>347389
This. Actually I now realize this tax reform will also be a yuge improvement.
No.347395
>>347386
Holy shit anon, thanks for the info. I had no clue how other anons were modifying their text in the posts.
TESTING
TESTING
TESTING
TESTING
[code]TESTING[code]
$$TESTING$$
TESTING
No.347447
>>347386
Thanks man. :) I knew how to do most, but hadn't seen that nice graph before.
No.347486