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8chan News Board Ring: /pn/ - Politics and News - /politics/ - Politics

File: 1457999676993.gif (51.93 KB, 560x292, 140:73, Trump.gif)

 No.338707

I see a lot of libertarians oppose Trump because he is perceived to be the next Hitler or whatever, but when you analyze not only his policies but also the political implications of his rising support of Right Wing populism, you find that this is best way to dismantle the current big state and decentralize its power, which is the biggest crucial step in veering this government towards a libertarian based system. Rothbard makes the argument here:

https://archive.is/4twEA

>A RIGHT-WING POPULIST PROGRAM

>A right-wing populist program, then, must concentrate on dismantling the crucial existing areas of State and elite rule, and on liberating the average American from the most flagrant and oppressive features of that rule. In short:

>l. Slash Taxes. All taxes, sales, business, property, etc., but especially the most oppressive politically and personally: the income tax. We must work toward repeal of the income tax and abolition of the IRS.

>2. Slash Welfare. Get rid of underclass rule by abolishing the welfare system, or, short of abolition, severely cutting and restricting it.

>3. Abolish Racial or Group Privileges. Abolish affirmative action, set aside racial quotas, etc., and point out that the root of such quotas is the entire "civil rights" structure, which tramples on the property rights of every American.

>4. Take Back the Streets: Crush Criminals. And by this I mean, of course, not "white collar criminals" or "inside traders" but violent street criminals – robbers, muggers, rapists, murderers. Cops must be unleashed, and allowed to administer instant punishment, subject of course to liability when they are in error.

>5. Take Back the Streets: Get Rid of the Bums. Again: unleash the cops to clear the streets of bums and vagrants. Where will they go? Who cares? Hopefully, they will disappear, that is, move from the ranks of the petted and cosseted bum class to the ranks of the productive members of society.

>6. Abolish the Fed; Attack the Banksters. Money and banking are recondite issues. But the realities can be made vivid: the Fed is an organized cartel of banksters, who are creating inflation, ripping off the public, destroying the savings of the average American. The hundreds of billions of taxpayer handouts to S&L banksters will be chicken-feed compared to the coming collapse of the commercial banks.

>7. America First. A key point, and not meant to be seventh in priority. The American economy is not only in recession; it is stagnating. The average family is worse off now than it was two decades ago. Come home America. Stop supporting bums abroad. Stop all foreign aid, which is aid to banksters and their bonds and their export industries. Stop gloabaloney, and let's solve our problems at home.

>8. Defend Family Values. Which means, get the State out of the family, and replace State control with parental control. In the long run, this means ending public schools, and replacing them with private schools. But we must realize that voucher and even tax credit schemes are not, despite Milton Friedman, transitional demands on the path to privatized education; instead, they will make matters worse by fastening government control more totally upon the private schools. Within the sound alternative is decentralization, and back to local, community neighborhood control of the schools.

>Further: We must reject once and for all the left-libertarian view that all government-operated resources must be cesspools. We must try, short of ultimate privatization, to operate government facilities in a manner most conducive to a business, or to neighborhood control. But that means: that the public schools must allow prayer, and we must abandon the absurd left-atheist interpretation of the First Amendment that "establishment of religion" means not allowing prayer in public schools, or a creche in a schoolyard or a public square at Christmas. We must return to common sense, and original intent, in constitutional interpretation.

>So far: every one of these right-wing populist programs is totally consistent with a hard-core libertarian position. But all real-world politics is coalition politics, and there are other areas where libertarians might well compromise with their paleo or traditionalist or other partners in a populist coalition. For example, on family values, take such vexed problems as pornography, prostitution, or abortion. Here, pro-legalization and pro-choice libertarians should be willing to compromise on a decentralist stance; that is, to end the tyranny of the federal courts, and to leave these problems up to states and better yet, localities and neighborhoods, that is, to "community standards."

 No.338715

>>338707

>universal health care

>global military activity

>strong foreign aid

>tariffs

>libertarian policies

What planet are you from?


 No.338716

File: 1458000703122.png (1.72 MB, 1350x2000, 27:40, 1454435933482.png)

>>338715

The one that primaries


 No.338718

File: 1458000754274.jpg (286.5 KB, 1350x1050, 9:7, kGA29YR.jpg)

>>338715

The one that wins primaries

(Fuck you cripple gnome)


 No.338721

>>338715

that wasn't the argument at all, yet you would have realized that if you read the article.


 No.338726

File: 1458001592684.jpg (35.9 KB, 612x459, 4:3, rand-paul-just-had-a-sitdo….jpg)

>>338715

I'm from America

maybe Libertarians are from Africa?


 No.338727

File: 1458001679914.jpg (35.9 KB, 612x459, 4:3, rand-paul-just-had-a-sitdo….jpg)

>point out that the root of such quotas is the entire "civil rights" structure, which tramples on the property rights of every American.

At the very beginning, Rand Paul actually did that, but then he turned around and sucked Al Sharpton's dick.


 No.338730

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

Topical


 No.338748

opinions

fuck off


 No.338763

>>338748

jew mad?


 No.338765

File: 1458005427168.png (159.83 KB, 1075x1593, 1075:1593, 1456847070298.png)

>>338763

say something new for a change faggot


 No.338776

Is this some sort of fucking joke?

>>338716

But loses in an election to Hillary. The ONLY republican candidate which loses an election to Hillary, I might add. Trump is nothing but a fucking catspaw to finish killing the right wing. He might even be in on in, the New York douche.


 No.338788

>>338707

>>338707

Rothbard went off the rails and abandoned his principles tbh

Also, I hate when people say this, but this REALLY isn't news. It's not a news story, but a manifesto discussion.

You should post this on /politics/ and /liberty/ to give them more traffic, and it will also be more appropriate, friend.


 No.338794

bullshit^10

trump is a fascist when it comes to civil liberties. No libertarian should support him. For libertarians this election died when Rand Paul got absolutely demolished in voter support and quit.


 No.338796

File: 1458007703477.jpg (294.01 KB, 1240x775, 8:5, donald-trump_2.jpg)

Donald Trump is a self made Billionaire.


 No.338854

>>338794

Agreed, but who else will you vote for? Someone's gonna win. It looks like Trump or Hillary, with an offchance of Bernie.


 No.338863

>>338794

Rand Paul tried to cozy up to the neocons, so screw him.


 No.338867

>/pol/ - Politically Incorrect

>/n/ - News


 No.338957

>>338721

The "article" is an excerpt from a book written in 1992. It really isn't even news, OP was dumb for posting it. I read the part that OP quoted and skimmed the rest.

The things I listed are things that Trump has said he is very much in favor of, which are all very un-libertarian things. He does not want to abolish or reduce the capacity of the welfare system. He does not want to reduce our global military presence or foreign aid. Etcetera.

Libertarian ideas would be:

>a truly free market

>abolition of the welfare state

>very little federal involvement in anything other than national defense

>a generally isolationist stance on foreign policy

and Trump supports none of those positions, possibly with the exception of a free market - though I've never heard him say anything specific about it.

The OP says:

>libertarians should be willing to compromise on a decentralist stance

which Trump does not take on nearly any issue. The only thing we actually know he would do, is lower corporate tax rates because that's what would directly benefit him and his friends in business the most (as well as all other businesses, but he obviously cares about himself first).

Basic logic follows, then, that Trump is not libertarian in any way - he, in fact, is closer to a fascist if you look at most of his opinions and policies - coherent, written examples of which are rare, if even existent.

>>338726

>>338727

>>338794

Rand was never truly a libertarian. I'm sure his father is disappointed in the politician he became.

>>338854

Ted Cruz is the only other candidate with a chance of getting the nomination. Gary Johnson is the libertarian candidate, but he obviously has no chance.


 No.339002

File: 1458024075368.jpg (19.13 KB, 480x311, 480:311, 1476468_1597904397130351_8….jpg)

>or whatever

You clearly don't understand why we dislike him.

Fuck off, Chris Cuckwell.


 No.339066

I'm an an-cap and everyone knows that these people are all shit. Personally I like watching Trump because he's a crack-up. That doesn't mean I support him, it just means I like that he's showing the election cycle and presidency for the shitshow that it is


 No.339218

File: 1458054412662.jpg (43.54 KB, 600x447, 200:149, 1457376174136.jpg)


 No.339326

>>338854

The party of principle votes on principle.

Libertarians will vote for Johnson or McAfee or whoever it is who ends up winning the libertarian primary.

We are excited for the first televised libertarian primary debate, and hope that the libertarian suit goes through and the libertarian candidate will be in the general election debate.


 No.339335

I voted Trump today!


 No.339381

I am lolbertarian and I support Trump, not because of what he wants to do, but because of what I think he will manage to do. I want at least 4 years of Trump. I want someone who will undo a lot of the shit Obama did, someone who will reverse the SJW hoard, and basically the polar opposite of shillary. At some point we will diverge and we will be enemies, but for now he has my vote.


 No.339386

>>338707

What's with all the memester threads lately? This clown isn't news, he's mainstream media clickbait.


 No.339410

>>338957

Its funny because most Libertarians live off the gov.


 No.339417

>>339410

Well this now goes for 45(+)% of the American population these days. From progressives to conservatives, lots of people rely on govt handouts and welfare. We have an economic crisis due to corruption, stupidity and really awful 'trade' agreements.

Don't blame the victims, blame the ones in power over the last 40 years.


 No.339419

File: 1458063936727.jpg (66.71 KB, 450x653, 450:653, 1148939010254.jpg)

>>339381

>someone who will reverse the SJW hoard

The SJWs won't die. They'll just do what they did before during the Bush years and merge with the moderate liberals and others who dislike the current leadership, potentially radicalizing them to further their own agendas and making them Soc-Jus 2.0.

The only real way to stop the SJW horde is with healing, to forgive and forge a better path through unity, but I don't believe anyone in this election cycle is capable of that.


 No.339424

>>339419

Actually, the only way to stop SJWs is by killing them and not feeling guilty about it

Can't subvert anything if you're dead


 No.339427

>>339417

Oh I'm well aware. I just find it funny


 No.339430

My hopes of getting a Libertarian candidate died with Rand Paul's campaign, I'm voting for Trump because he is the "wild card" of all these candidates, and at least has some policies that I agree with.


 No.339473

>>339417

>Don't blame the victims, blame the ones in power over the last 40 years.

They could have resisted but they feel too comfortable to resist even now. Every people get the leader they deserve…


 No.339478

>>339427

That doesn't mean they want it to be that way, if they did they would be voting for democrat gibsmedats instead.

>>339473

The handful of people over the years who have resisted have been labeled terrorist cooks by most of the country and accomplished nothing.


 No.339494

>>338707

>Cops must be unleashed, and allowed to administer instant punishment,

Boy, I can't see any way this could possibly go wrong!


 No.339533

File: 1458068107940.jpg (64.01 KB, 500x657, 500:657, ef574dd656cf2f87801ccd8150….jpg)

>>338765

>"say something new"

>call him faggot

>new


 No.339535

>>339419

yeah, we could do that… or we could deport you to Mexico.


 No.339551

>>339478

Then why accept the aid? Shouldn't they live true to their principles?


 No.339558

Libertarians should support Trump, but they're stupid. That's why they're libertarians.

You can't convince people to go straight into libertarianism today. It's too different and people are too skeptical due to watching the country go to shit for decades. You need to move society closer to libertarianism economically and produce evidence that the change made their lives better before they'll support a real libertarian candidate.

Trump wants to make both the domestic and international markets more free.

His solution to our healthcare issue is to stop the anti-competition laws, which will allow the free market to bring prices down. He's literally saying we're going to let the free market fix it and, unlike other Republicans, backing it up by showing which of our current crony capitalist policies are stopping it from happening. Other Republicans only use the free market as an excuse to avoid supporting anything but crony capitalist legislation.

His solution to our massive trade deficit and loss of jobs overseas is to make the international market more free by playing by the same rules as everyone else. It isn't a free market when everyone else is free to do whatever they want and we can't respond. Once we start playing the international market like they do, they'll stop being able to make us pay the price for their inefficient, unfree international trade policies and they'll eventually come to see the benefits of a free market. It's hard to see the need for a free market when for every dollar you lose because of an unfree market, America hands you ten.

Trump is actually going to let the free market fix things. He's going to show everyone that it works and they'll be more likely to listen to libertarians as a result.


 No.339591

File: 1458070370743.png (1.21 MB, 1200x750, 8:5, AM Inheritance Distr_1255.png)

>Donald Trump inherited most of his wealth


 No.339601

>>339558

basically this, if you want to have a libertarian society, then you have to ease into it, just like we've eased into this socialist, authoritarian shitshow we're in right now.


 No.339606

How do people still not understand Trump is pretty Democratic? It's why he supports blue collar workers unlike most GOP candidates.


 No.339628

>>339381

Insightful comment I pretty much agree. Trump isn't perfect but he's a step in the right direction.


 No.339629

>>339558

But that is only one of his policy areas. In virtually every other area he is very much not libertarian. So, if anything, the ignorant masses will be turned off to it because Trump did all this other shit that contradicts the policy and values associated with a free market - spelling doom for institutionalized libertarianism.


 No.339634

>>339002

You dislike him because you're fucking retarded

Even people as dumb as libertarians should be able to realize the collapse of the establishment is good for every single ideology which has been marginalized up to this point- including libertarianism

You fucks are the dumbest, most pretentious fags on this site and belong on /leftypol/


 No.339669

File: 1458073186418.jpg (73.14 KB, 1024x720, 64:45, CdY04vnUAAAxNII.jpg large.jpg)


 No.339762

File: 1458077225095.jpg (59.9 KB, 446x439, 446:439, 140495861682705.jpg)

>>338707

>>So far: every one of these right-wing populist programs is totally consistent with a hard-core libertarian position. But all real-world politics is coalition politics, and there are other areas where libertarians might well compromise with their paleo or traditionalist or other partners in a populist coalition. For example, on family values, take such vexed problems as pornography, prostitution, or abortion. Here, pro-legalization and pro-choice libertarians should be willing to compromise on a decentralist stance; that is, to end the tyranny of the federal courts, and to leave these problems up to states and better yet, localities and neighborhoods, that is, to "community standards."

Not convinced that you'll follow through on your promises.

Show me a contract.


 No.339818

>>339762

>A paper with scribbles on it will force you to hold to our agreement

>now please voluntarily dismantle the government so I can higher a better private security corporation than you and take your shit with impunity after paying off the private arbitrator, with no body to appeal to above him


 No.339873

>>339533

>if I focus on how much he sucks hopefully nobody will notice I suck much harder


 No.339885

File: 1458083854520.gif (3.11 MB, 500x500, 1:1, eating shit.gif)

>>339762

>people who speed on the freeway are living examples of anarchy

lol


 No.339891

>>339762

not sure summer will come after every spring

show me the contract


 No.339919

>>338707

I've been supporting Trump since people started calling his bid a joke.

And he is a populist psychopath, but he's the first man in a long time that's actually made me feel proud of my country.


 No.339926

>>339629

You think nobody can make the argument that all of Trump's success in office was caused by libertarian ideas and that the rest isn't so good?

That's stupid and you're stupid for even thinking that anyone might be tricked by such a bad argument.


 No.339941

>>339926

Success in what office? He is not yet and has never been in any position of governmental authority, we're talking purely hypothetically here.

He also did not achieve his business success in a truly free market - that is something that has not existed in many decades, certainly since before Trump became a business owner.

I already said this but I'll say it again since you don't seem to understand: economics is the only area where Trump is even slightly libertarian (things like import tariffs and increased taxes on companies that internationalize labor is decidedly not libertarian), and in every other area he is very not libertarian. Gun control, surveillance, increased global military activity, etc. So any real libertarian would not vote for him to further libertarianism simply because he supports a free market (which he doesn't even truly support because of his stance on international dealings). If you're going to vote for someone not on the libertarian ticket then Cruz is the only other candidate worth supporting, both for his policies and his chance at the nomination.


 No.339945

>>339941

>certainly since before Trump became a business owner.

Forgot to mention that he also started his business with inheritance money.


 No.339955

>>339941

I called you stupid, so you went and said a bunch of stupid things.

Okay.


 No.339970

>"What we'd like to do here is take a group of people who already have extensive legal privileges that they flagrantly abuse, and give them more privileges."

-Trump

>"YES OFFICER!!! PLEEEEAAASE SHOVE YOUR NIGHTSTICK DEEPER!!!"

-op

https://archive.is/8zAMD

https://archive.is/0h3O2


 No.339973

File: 1458090428914.gif (836.5 KB, 286x204, 143:102, 1342607881065.gif)

>Why Libertarians Should Support Trump

>4. Take Back the Streets: Crush Criminals. And by this I mean, of course, not "white collar criminals" or "inside traders" but violent street criminals – robbers, muggers, rapists, murderers. Cops must be unleashed


 No.340000

File: 1458091966992.jpg (187.5 KB, 1181x630, 1181:630, if trump is the memes cand….jpg)

>>339955

>gives absolutely no further substantial criticism, ending the discussion with another insult

Okay.


 No.340005

File: 1458092091779.png (228.72 KB, 550x500, 11:10, 1454980248358.png)

>>340000

aww you beat me. nice GET anyway


 No.340017

Slash taxes and unleash the police. I guess those officers will be happy to work without pay, in the libertarian white people’s paradise. That’s where their salaries come from, did you know?

No sane person could think Trump is the next Hitler. In his March 23, 1933 speech to the Reichstag the real Hitler stated, “Great are the tasks of the national Government in the sphere of economic life. Here all action must be governed by one law: the people does not live for business, and business does not exist for capital; but capital serves business, and business serves the people.”

I don’t expect to hear Donald Trump saying words to this effect any time soon.

What this libertarian puffery about “limited government” has left us is the pathetic spectacle of the institutions of liberty stripped of the power to safeguard liberty. This scam was sold to the gullible by corporate elements that wanted regulations that contained their greed to be abolished so they could bleed you dry. The libertarian perversion of the Enlightenment doctrine of individuality has produced a culture of alienated narcissists, turning Americans into a weak, easily frightened people who are, ironically, more dependant on centralized authority than our ancestors could ever have imagined.


 No.340025

>>339970

>implying the death penalty is too harsh a crime for murderers

>implying that cop murderers are less guilty than murderers of civilians

Are you even trying, chaim? You realize Trump is moments from taking everything you hold dear and leading it straight into the ovens!? Trump supporters will link arms and squeeze you to death unless you can stop them. Time is dwindling, hurry now - tick, tick, tick!


 No.340030

>>338707

>wants to censor the internet

>calls for boycott of Apple because it refused to break people's rights and privacy under CIA demands.

Trump is not a libertarian.


 No.340056

>>340025

If you are so worried about it why don't you get prepared? I have. The country has already fallen into the shit hole, so don't even think about blaming all the recent communist policies on someone like Trump. The last two administrations have wrecked America, Obama is simply flushing our country down the toilet.

We need someone who is willing to throw us a raft so we don't drown in a progressive current of shit! Trump is the man willing to throw us a raft. Will we make it out alive? Who the hell knows!? Get prepared!


 No.341800

>>339551

>Then why accept the aid? Shouldn't they live true to their principles?

If someone sticks you up and takes all the money in your wallet but gives you back your license, should you not take your license back?


 No.341838

>>339066

Anarchist here as well. Thinking about voting for trump anyway in hopes of watching the butt hurt cucked public freak out again.

>we wanted these people to control our lives, not him! Bernie can fuck me in the ass, not trump! I still don't understand either way I'm getting fucked!


 No.341850

>>339558

Except from what I can tell, libertarians believe it will get worse in a free market, but only at first because right now we have no real wealth. Only debt. They want to attack the bubble now while it's still manageable and believe everyone else is just making things worse

>>341800

I might actually be too frightened to. Just be like "no no, it's yours, just don't shoot me!" aha.


 No.341851

>>339885

Yes, any time you make a decision without thinking about the state, you are acting only on yourself. You are acting as an anarchist. Even if you are not speeding, but are still doing the speed you wish to be doing, you are still acting like an anarchist. Any time you do absolutely anything without taking government into consideration you are acting like an anarchist.


 No.341860

freedumb biased policies ain't freedom. I'm from australia so I don't really give a crap about america at this stage as long as they don't start some shit. Either way I'm far from the main cities.




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