/operate/ - 8chan Operation & Discussion

I was right and I wasn't fucking /intl/, but you were all too busy being isolationist paranoid fucks to listen to me. Same goes for various anons on /tech/ who continuously gave concise and insightful advice which could have saved this whole project.

But I don't want to extend some bullshit grudge or feud, I just want Hotwheels and the globals to quit circlejerking on IRC and acting top-level paranoid and actually use 8ch.

Who gives a shit if someone asking a question is some retarded circlejerking attention whore? If it's a good question, answer. If it's a shitty question, explain why for the benefit of the 13yos who can't work it out on their own but just want to shitpost in peace. If it's a complex question, explain the assumptions and propaganda and answer the piece of the question that matters.

And for the love of anything you hold dear, quit passing things on. If glovols can't read the operation board occasionally, there's a problem. Also go back to moving /meta/ and shitposting threads to /meta/. /operate/ should be for site technical issues primarily with a secondary focus on non-technical issues getting in the way of people posting.

It looks like I'm the only one even on /operate/ right now who knows to check the catalog and cares enough to post in this thread so far.

I've been documenting this last month or so, partially, as much as my schedule and remaining interest allowed, but I don't even know if anyone's going to be left to care or bother to look through what I've archived and keep the story straight. Another field day for anyone who wants to get rid of 8ch.

Man, there aren't even any big board mods here weighing in, anonymously or not. I don't even have a top 25 board. I don't even have a top 50 board, even with the traffic slump. The only boards I own that aren't dead in the water are ones the owners abandoned that I just didn't want some moron coming and deleting everything or making a bunch of stupid new rules.

What do you say, Nunu? Let's claim all of the boards once everyone else is gone, we each take half and post on each other's boards as if we were 5 or so different people.

Also, and let me just say this now and there be an end to it, I notice there is in fact an option on the poll…and currently most popular, other than JUST fucking our shit up…to mostly fix 8ch's current problems with the main penalty seeming to be that the overboard will take a long-ass time if it gets made at all. This despite constant assurance by Josh and sometimes even HW that Next was the only way 8ch could continue because the current software, and I quote, "cannot be fixed".

Let this serve as a harsh lesson: established codebase stable enough to switch between at least half a dozen servers before finding a real host, and able to scale so extremely without completely falling apart > new, non-load-tested, overdue, non-feature-parity-upholding, more complex, more fully featured "once it's done", web 2.0 software. I appreciate the ambition and the idea behind it all, and I understand that 8ch currently has severe and debilitating problems with the software, but for all of everyone's yelling about their lack of any real skill, Hotwheels and the other volunteers have proven to be more practical and useful coders than Josh, even if he wrote lots more code that in theory should have been better. Basics first, testing second, feature parity and more testing third, frills and improvements last. That's pretty basic.

Personally I'd much rather 8ch with no overboard ever than no 8ch. I'm trying to be understanding of the difficulties involved with running 8ch, and I'm still grateful to have a place where I can post legal things largely unmolested by the global moderation and run boards how I want to.

I don't need to tell you all that you probably won't get quite the same level of conciliation from the average impatient anon, let alone from people who actually donated. I nearly did myself, too…instinct, I guess. The way this whole project was communicated and the way the various communities were dealt with…or not really given any dealings with at all…was the reason I didn't donate in the first place. Communication issues, like back on 4chan. Sounds trivial with such severe software problems, but lack of communication…withdrawing like moot and the globals did…that's what will kill 8ch, and this time last year I believe HW was still saying things to the effect of "tell me I'm being fucking stupid if I sequester myself like Moot did".

So here I am, saying so. I'm still here. I still want to post on 8ch. Are you? Do you?

You know what? Since no one else is even posting, one last thing, too:

>>45065

Unless these last posts are all some samefag lying, people aren't being given boards on a request by email basis like they were meant to be, which begs the question, how exactly are they getting handed out to these other people apparently requesting later? And if it is by IRC request, then why the fuck is it by IRC request?

Not the thread topic, but seems the thread linked is just being ignored. Hard to ignore the first few posts in a sticky, right?

>>46227

>Also go back to moving /meta/ and shitposting threads to /meta/. /operate/ should be for site technical issues primarily with a secondary focus on non-technical issues getting in the way of people posting.

I honestly don't think that's necessary, i strongly believe that both technical and /meta/-tier discussion can coexist on /operate/. I was 100% against the splintering in the first place.

>>46228

>It looks like I'm the only one even on /operate/ right now who knows to check the catalog and cares enough to post in this thread so far.

eh…/operate/ has always been a slow board, so that's nothing new really.

>but I don't even know if anyone's going to be left to care or bother to look through what I've archived and keep the story straight.

You're welcome to post your findings here on /operate/.

>What do you say, Nunu? Let's claim all of the boards once everyone else is gone, we each take half and post on each other's boards as if we were 5 or so different people.

Thanks for the offer, but i think i'll have to decline.

>>46229

I'll certainly agree with you that communication about next has been a bit of an issue over the past few months, i'm really hoping that that area will be improving.

>So here I am, saying so. I'm still here. I still want to post on 8ch. Are you? Do you?

Sure i do! and hopefully things will be running a bit smoother once copypaste can get the VFEC (Vichan Front End Controller) going.

>>46230

I'll probably be making a FAQ like post for claims, since I've been seeing the same questions/issues continually get brought up.

>>46231

I know you do, I meant Hotwheels lol

Yes, I'm hoping HW's fixes help out, but again I really don't think HW is unable to post on 8ch at all as is when we're managing just fine. He should have kicked Josh out two months ago, I think, but now that Josh is gone and HW isn't in denial about all of that, there's no reason for him to keep dodging the entire userbase (or at least lurking without making himself known…which is great, but it's also nice to know the admin is actually around).

I'd welcome any further clarification about board claims.

I'm going to post what I have on /watch/, maybe make a thread just for that. It's not a post-mortem or anything like that, just a collection of threads I happened to come across and archive in my limited browsing time, so they wouldn't be lost to revisionism, and some commentary. Anyways, might not get around to it until this weekend, we'll see. I haven't listened to HW's summary yet, I'm a little worried it will just be him realizing things about Josh we already said on /operate/ late last year…

I'd like to mention the issue with Hotwheels visability on the site is not going to be solved any time soon. The community has spoken; we want him bashing away at the [Tinyboard + vichan + infinity] blob over other options. I think this is great, but let's not pretend he has seen the light and will change his lurking habits. Between earning a living and just plain living, he doesn't have enough time to be Mr. Chan Personality while also hammering out code maintenance, etc.

We have a viable system now, what with Nunu being the gatekeeper for regular board oriented users, and so on.

I think I can say the community is much happier with all this. Please though, reign in the expectations. Slow and steady is what we have to look forward to, what we have been begging for, and that is the miracle we deserve.

Here's to another proper year of 8chan!

good riddance i say

Fucking hated the layout of Next, everyone did, can't say how happy I am that Josh is FIRED. With luck we'll see him floating face down in an Eastern sewer.

>>46227

>>46228

>>46229

wall of text; opinion discarded

WALL OF TEXT = REDDITOR

>>46235

>>46237

COMPLAINING ABOUT TEXT = TWITTERFAG

/intl/ = TWITTERFAG

UR ATTENTION WHORE TBH

>>46234

Really though how hard would it be to like, pop into /operate/ once a week and answer three questions so people know he's not exclusively developing for a site he doesn't use. This is the exact same shit he said he wouldn't do because he said it was what ruined 4chan; moot becoming out of touch. Even with nunu passing things along, some of the stuff in the stream/writeup that he found out and was all shocked about was stuff he really just should have known to begin with, it's not like no one was saying it.

Anyways, 8 more years!

Here's my notes on migrations etc:

>>>/watch/41

It's limited to what I knew or saw, of course.

>>46232

>I'm going to post what I have on /watch/, maybe make a thread just for that.

I knew your writing seemed familar, you're that Poseidon guy aren't you? Didn't know you were still around, since you hadn't posted on /undina/ in a while.

>>46240

I'll be sure to read through all that, seems really detailed.

>>46241

It's probably mostly stuff you already know, just thread archives, etc

Yeah, I am, I stopped posting on /undina/ as much because I made /watch/ for some of those purposes, then shortly stopped posting on /watch/ because I had no idea at any given time what posts would be saved and didn't want to bother both posting places and keeping backups and logs of where I'd posted thing or hadn't.

I wasn't really browsing 8ch much the last month, just looking at /next/ and /operate/ to see what was going on.

I'm still not sure if I want to stay on 8ch frankly, all of those global moderation issues (and now a few new ones seemingly, like the board assignment) got swept under the rug pretty hard by Next taking over all common worry.

For now, though, I haven't come across anything else that's like 8ch or offers anything better, at least.

>>46239

He wasn't even aware that Josh had been fucking with /v/, the most populated board, when it was talked about in every related thread and even on Josh's own Twitter. Not only is he out of touch with the community to an extreme level, he doesn't seem to have any idea what his own staff are doing.

So, as a board owner of a teetering top 40-60 board (kek), I've got to admit, I don't know how owning one of the top boards is. But it seems to be a lot less organized than it should be?

How the fuck did HW not know what Josh was doing at /v/? Why is there not some sort of "Council of Ten" with the owners of the most relevant boards, like, /v/, /pol/, /a/, /co/, /k/, etc, doing regular reports about the status of their boards so HW knows what's going on? I know he no longer owns the site and that

>being this serious about running an imageboard,

but come on.

I'm not tech-savvy enough to opine on the software shit, but the bureaucracy seems to be all wrong, fuck's sake. Bureaucracy in excess is awful, but having a semblance of some basic due process is great for giving the populace a feeling things are going on correctly. HW can lurk all he wants, but have him post as admin once a week, whatever. Just, fuck. What the fuck, man.

>>46229

>Let this serve as a harsh lesson: established codebase stable enough to switch between at least half a dozen servers before finding a real host, and able to scale so extremely without completely falling apart > new, non-load-tested, overdue, non-feature-parity-upholding, more complex, more fully featured "once it's done", web 2.0 software.

Fuck you dude. I don't even know where to start disassembling this sentence because it is so fucking wrong.

1) "able to scale so extremely without completely falling apart" No. It's fucking falling apart as we speak. Have you even tried to post lately?

2) "non-load-tested" The fact that it had been benchmarked for a collection of servers twice as powerful as the ones 8chan actually has doesn't mean that it wasn't a consideration.

3) "overdue" By about a month. And, if Josh didn't have a tantrum, it may have been done by next month.

4) "more complex" Do you have any metrics that support this? I am almost certain that you are just spouting bullshit.

>Basics first, testing second, feature parity and more testing third, frills and improvements last. That's pretty basic.

You haven't seen the fucking code. It is basics. You're just a whiny idiot.

I can't fucking stand fucking fucktards like you. You don't want people to take away your blankie. They needed to rewrite the software to support Overboard, so they're going to rewrite infinity instead of writing something with that in mind. They needed to rewrite the software to do less disk IO, so they're going to rewrite infinity to do less disk IO instead of writing something with that in mind. Why did we waste $12K? Because $12K for Next was cheaper than paying someone to make the necessary changes to infinity. This is true and no amount of your ignorance about software maintenance will change that.

My biggest contribution to GNU was taking a five year old patch, applying it to the (then) current code, and finishing what was started. The patch was 90% done. It took me two weeks to finish something that had sat on a shelf for five years for lack of anyone willing to do the work. That is the true nature of open source software development. And today, I sit around and eat the government's money, appeasing faggots like you who won't let me change their "tried and true" programs THAT DON'T MEET THE FUCKING REQUIREMENTS ANYMORE. I waste American taxpayer money trying to force new functionality into programs that should be obsoleted because the people using those programs are autistic old fucks who can't stand change.

At the end of the day, INFINITY DOESN'T MEET THE FUCKING REQUIREMENTS ANYMORE BECAUSE IT IS BEING ASKED TO DO SHIT IT WASN'T DESIGNED TO DO and needs to be replaced.

>>46231

>I'll certainly agree with you that communication about next has been a bit of an issue over the past few months, i'm really hoping that that area will be improving.

=You know, nunu, if you weren't sucking your own cock and were actually paying attention, then there wouldn't have been an issue.=

>>46247

That's exactly what I'm talking about. Josh deserves everything he gets from HW but it's like HW is trying to shovel off all of his own shit decisions on Josh and be like "oh man everything was perfect until this last week when Josh gave up and I thought he didn't mean it".

I also don't feel I need to explain, on 8ch, that even half-assed victim-playing is just not really what I want to see.

on the other hand how can /v/ get any more shit than that utter, comprehensive faggot Mark makes it already?…unless maybe those possibly even shittier /ggrevolt/ faggots.

>>46248

Look, the thing is Hotwheels is NOT supposed to interfere in board moderation, said so himself, did it a few times but largely repented of that at least.

"Due process" is "don't post CP, and if we get a real DMCA your thing will be taken down".

Other than that, boards are and should be user-moderated by whoever created them…unless they just delete I think it was over half of the posts, HW said that somewhere though I don't think it's on official record. This was the whole draw of 8ch initially, it's not supposed to be just a 4chan clone.

>>46249

Josh I've put up with so much of your shit that I can easily recognize your posting style, so just fucking stop.

>1

It's been "falling apart as we speak" for what, four months now? Same errors, same problems with the front pages freezing, double posts, file issues. Some of those issues were there before HW first decided to abandon the codebase in the first place. None of them have prevented me from posting on any board I want from any exit country I want with any browser I want, or downloading files. None of them have gotten markedly worse overall in these last four months despite the constant protestations to the contrary.

>Have you even tried to post lately?

No, you stupid faggot, you replied to a less than a day old post that I made, but I haven't been trying to fucking post. Go play in traffic.

The fact that you benchmarked it for hardware you didn't fucking have constitutes a failure to correctly load test. I don't give a fuck whose error in communication that was, frankly.

By about two months, actually. End of January was re-schedule. In the end, it doesn't matter how overdue it was because Josh felt it necessary to go full faggot and 3rd-person around on /operate/ after quitting because he wasn't getting his dick sucked enough.

>You haven't seen the fucking code. It is basics. You're just a whiny idiot.

Which puts you at step one of fucking four you illiterate faggot. Note the next two, as before the fourth. I said "don't put the horse before the carriage" and your reply is "hurrr fuk u if you looked at the code you'd realize this really is a carriage road".

>Do you have any metrics that support this? I am almost certain that you are just spouting bullshit.

Are you somehow confused about the meaning of the term "complex"? Are you trying to tell me that Josh was not making anything new or ambitious and didn't want to use Varnish with split pages? Because that seems to be what you're saying and I just have to tell you, you are fucking stupid.

>>46253

I know he's not supposed to interfere with the board moderation, but he should still be aware of what's going on on at least the bigger boards, no? If only to give the userbase confidence that the admin is still around instead of having fucked off for a lifetime's supply of prostitutes

>>46249

>I can't fucking stand fucktards like you

Then why don't you jam your argument to the man straight up your triggered ass and fuck off forever? Seriously, who gives a fuck about what anonymous posters you can or cannot stand? You come here from Twitter to tell the commoners "how it be" or some shit?

Go back to your cow forums and cry to your loyal users.

>if I reiterate problems that have been brought up over and over again as if the post I'm replying to denied or ignored, rather than addressing them, I'm certain to look super competent!

Fuck yourself twice for this bullshit as well.

Don't conflate me with the open source community to satisfy your constant need to sperg out and wage your shitty holy war either, you ideological whore.

Imageboards are not government software or social media to be constantly promoted and overhauled. Imageboard software evolves because someone thinks "hey I wonder if I can bullshit that together", not because anyone thinks they're going to destroy the evil corporations or be the hero business deserves.

2003 imageboard requirements: host text and images in ephemeral threads to save space.

2016 imageboard requirements: host text and images in ephemeral threads to save space.

2016 addendum: Imageboards aren't jewtube so this isn't vital to their existence, but video or audio clips would be cool too. Hey why not an Overboard and, like, a thread watcher or something? These are such cool ideas and would be awesome to have implemented! However, if they aren't there the imageboard won't magically implode.

8chan special requirements: 8mb size limit, WebMs have sound, users can create and moderate their own boards independent of globals.

Oh wow looks like Infinity is still doing all of this!

At the end of the day:

- YOU ARE STILL POSTING ON INFINITY DESPITE IT BEING SURE TO DIE MONTHS AGO AND RUNNING ON ONLY SOME OF THE SERVERS THROUGHOUT ALL OF THIS

- OVERBOARD AND LACK OF POSTING ERRORS STILL LESS IMPORTANT TO IMAGEBOARD SURVIVAL THAN IMAGEBOARD BEING A 503 ALL OF THE FUCKING TIME

- BETWEEN INFINITY AND NEXT, ONE IS SERVING POSTS AND FILES RIGHT NOW AND MEETING THE REQUIREMENTS

I've been posting on 8ch with post errors over 4chan without for about 14 months now, over a variety of shitty hosts, and I was never more disenchanted and discouraged from posting than when some victim-playing delusional faggot promised to build some great software that would fix everything, then just told everyone to fuck off because it was going to only have the things he wanted throughout the development cycle, rejecting both feature parity requests and the advice that could have saved his shoddy broken back-end.

I would rather have to hit submit nine times for every post, have page 1 frozen on all boards and only use the catalog, and have the periodic captcha fail to load confirmation twenty goddamn times in a row forever than put up with a second more of you deciding 8ch's future with your constant insipid bullshit and lack of fundamental understanding of the purpose of imageboards: to post fucking images and accompany them with fucking text without completely shitting the bed under existing server load. All of your vision and advanced new features and perceived new "requirements" mean fucking nothing if you fail to provide something which can, under the actual server load, provide a long-term method for posting images and pictures.

Hey, you know why people still use that shitty old outdated pathetic File Transfer Protocol so much?

Because it

Transfers

Fucking

Files

Fuck's sake, you used PHP because you were familiar with it and you're here roleplaying and complaining about people being afraid of new things, when your new thing is written in a fossil itself and fails at the basic elements of "post and view text and images under current server load with current server resources"? Faggot you should have had that out of the way the first month and then improved upon it as you saw fit within that budget which should have been well known.

You go on and on about modern this and that but it's like you've never even fucking heard of iterative development. Hurrr what's the prototyping phase? Durrrrr.

And how can you possibly be so fucking stupid, anyways? I know this and I didn't sign up to code the new Infinity and outshill even fucking Lynx for the part because I recognize that I'm not qualified. You even admitted you lied to get the gig. It's pathetic.

In conclusion, and without further ado:

FUCK OFF RETARD

>>46248

But yeah I agree about actually posting once in forever.

>>46255

Yeah, I agree…but not by talking to the admins of them, at least not solely. I mean that was the problem before Next overwhelmed all other problems, that HW would just "check up" with board owners about any given thing including people saying "the board owners are fucking us".

Now, let me be clear, I don't want HW to interfere with BOs unless they are BOs he originally appointed to their positions back when he hadn't learned his lesson and was fucking around playing God which he said he wouldn't. He apologized and stopped but anyone left in those positions that he put there is still his responsibility indirectly.

But yeah in general it would be nice if he actually was on 8ch, and it's like, okay the things Josh wanted you to code aren't coded, but that's why you're busy and can't even drop a line?

And in the IRC he's always talking to Josh like "if you need to take a break", so on, so on.

HW if you need to take a break…tell the users at least.

so are we going to kill Josh or not

>>46258

The site should really just kill itself to be honest. And it surely is on its way.

As fucking stupid as Josh not working for a week to feel sorry for himself is, there was only a better caching layer to be done with Next. It was the last piece of the puzzle, besides various missing features like tripcodes or static pages.

No developer will want to actually work with hotwheels publicly after his little cripple tirade. No matter if Josh had fucking lied, or "it was real in Josh's mind," nothing justified it. With the way he disposes of people, he's nothing better than a mini-moot. And why even work with such a person?

Yeah, Josh and him will probably work something out to use Next as soon as his little cripple tirade is over and the aggrevation stops, but it'll be pretty embarassing when it happens considering his twitter timeline.

But why even stay here with an admin like this? Well, there's nowhere else to go.

you know the site is fucked beyond rescue when you literally can't tell official copypasta from copypasta written by /intl/

>>46256

> 8chan special requirements: 8mb size limit, WebMs have sound, users can create and moderate their own boards independent of globals.

No, you dumbass. 8chan has to do what an imageboard does WHILE HAVING 8000 FUCKING BOARDS. THAT is why it kills disk IO: infinity is trying to regenerate 30+ files for 20+ boards constantly. Next kills CPU trying to generate those constantly.

Secondly, I am not Josh. I identified myself as a shill for the American Military-Industrial Complex. Josh is not a shill for the MIC.

Finally, I ran sloccount on the current master of infinity-next:

Totals grouped by language (dominant language first):

php: 20708 (100.00%)

Total Physical Source Lines of Code (SLOC) = 20,708

Development Effort Estimate, Person-Years (Person-Months) = 4.82 (57.83)

(Basic COCOMO model, Person-Months = 2.4 * (KSLOC**1.05))

Schedule Estimate, Years (Months) = 0.97 (11.68)

(Basic COCOMO model, Months = 2.5 * (person-months**0.38))

Estimated Average Number of Developers (Effort/Schedule) = 4.95

Total Estimated Cost to Develop = $ 651,009

(average salary = $56,286/year, overhead = 2.40).

SLOCCount, Copyright (C) 2001-2004 David A. Wheeler

SLOCCount is Open Source Software/Free Software, licensed under the GNU GPL.

SLOCCount comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY, and you are welcome to

redistribute it under certain conditions as specified by the GNU GPL license;

see the documentation for details.

Please credit this data as "generated using David A. Wheeler's 'SLOCCount'."

>>46263

Josh, just stop.

>>46272

While having 8000 fucking boards with their actual traffic:

Infinity current - runs like shit since the very beginning, now even more shit, but still running despite months of hearing it's about to die

Infinity Next - still cannot run with current bandwidth or number of boards, despite months of hearing it's one little fix away from perfection

But because Josh said "model view controller" I should definitely roll over and lick his balls no matter how much he doesn't give a shit about how 8ch runs or what its users want, and fails to deliver any sort of usable prototypes.

>>46272

Also, and this is the part I just love:

>because lots of devs charge 60k per year to deliver sloppy, unfinished code, Josh is a martyr for doing it for 12k and turning down other job opportunities because he wanted e-fame

Oh rly?

2015, May 10th

15:54:48 	n-tech 	copypaste, let me get my eyes in and I'll write up an explanation of some things.
[…]
15:57:07 	n-tech 	I'll preface this by explaining why I'm so strongly for a rewrite, as it's probably my weakest point and a personal preference.
15:57:39 	n-tech 	I worked for a company for 4 years that had this sort of infastructure. There was very few class objects, absolutely no model system, no controller system. The file you requested in the URL bar was exactly what you got.
15:58:21 	n-tech 	I worked my ass off trying to bring a little more cohesion to the code base and once we got new bosses and more devs who were more familiar with MVCs we started to see things come together a little better, but we still never had a proper MVC. Everything was just sort of done however the author pleased.
15:58:37 	n-tech 	And that was in a common that handled billions of dollars and has 10 developers when Ileft.
15:59:07 	n-tech 	There is absolutey no hope of randos in their free time being able to pull this 5 year old codebase out of the muck and make it work better. That is not a realistic situation. I don't care how many bitcoins you have, you will never accomplish that.
15:59:49 	n-tech 	When I mentined the rewrite at firsy you were pretty psyched about it and reasonably so. Just yesterday you remarked on an issue where czak himself admitted there is no way for something to be done.
16:00:21 	n-tech 	Right now there are multiple issues and requested features that are *literally impossible to do* because of various, crippling architecture failures that made up the foundation of vichan and tinyboard.
16:00:37 	n-tech 	And the only reason to keep them around is because X person wants to or it's what people are more familiar with.
16:00:41 	n-tech 	Yes, Laravel has a learning curve.
16:01:07 	n-tech 	No, it's not as free flowing or ez game ez lyfe as just sitting down and writing whatever radom series of global functions and straight SQL you want.
16:01:14 	n-tech 	But is it better? By fucking lightyears, dude.
[…]
16:02:09 	n-tech 	In only 3 weeks or so I've been able to layout an immense amount of functionality. The model and controller work is insanely straightforward. THe way databases are built and upgraded is laughably simple compared to the nightmaris bullshit we suffered through with even our most recent update.
16:02:17 	n-tech 	All the HTML is being done right, all the CSS is being done right and organized
16:02:29 	n-tech 	There is a built in translation system that doesn't suck ass
16:02:45 	n-tech 	Eveything you've ever fucking wanted is right there, built into the framework, by people way more smarter than I am.
16:02:56 	n-tech 	I just sit there like a kid with a big bucket of legos and put them all together.
16:03:05 	n-tech 	And it'd work th same for anyone who made the effort.
16:03:34 	n-tech 	I know it's really scary comiting to something brand new by a guy you really don't know, but your enthusiasm when I brought it up and started going along is what got me so excited and motivated to work on it.
16:04:09 	n-tech 	To have you back down once I am starting to show results just because some dude linked you to a 15 year old article about netscape is really insulting, and a massive blow to the project.
16:05:00 	n-tech 	I mean right now, at this moment, there is a feature on Larachan that is not possible on 8chan.
16:05:20 	n-tech 	If you make a post you will see a personal delete button under that post if your IP continues to match.
16:05:41 	n-tech 	Now you can nitpick that feature, but my point is that is not something you can do in vicha without JS hacks.
16:06:00 	n-tech 	You can never, ever have that because of the most perplexingly terrible caching system I've ever seen.
16:06:56 	n-tech 	And fuck dude, if the god damn way it stores html and attachments isn't reason enough to look for a new system, there's nothing I can say to change your mind. Nothing is a bigger persuasive force than reality.
16:07:02 	n-tech 	@copypaste

Here's Josh back in fucking May already working his emotional appeals and telling HW he feels goddamn offended about someone bringing up his past or some shit like that.

>>46256

And here is master of infinity:

Totals grouped by language (dominant language first):

php: 62878 (99.60%)

java: 231 (0.37%)

sh: 15 (0.02%)

ruby: 6 (0.01%)

Total Physical Source Lines of Code (SLOC) = 63,130

Development Effort Estimate, Person-Years (Person-Months) = 15.53 (186.41)

(Basic COCOMO model, Person-Months = 2.4 * (KSLOC**1.05))

Schedule Estimate, Years (Months) = 1.52 (18.23)

(Basic COCOMO model, Months = 2.5 * (person-months**0.38))

Estimated Average Number of Developers (Effort/Schedule) = 10.23

Total Estimated Cost to Develop = $ 2,098,404

(average salary = $56,286/year, overhead = 2.40).

SLOCCount, Copyright (C) 2001-2004 David A. Wheeler

SLOCCount is Open Source Software/Free Software, licensed under the GNU GPL.

SLOCCount comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY, and you are welcome to

redistribute it under certain conditions as specified by the GNU GPL license;

see the documentation for details.

Please credit this data as "generated using David A. Wheeler's 'SLOCCount'."

Infinity is three times as much code. You don't know shit about programming. You don't know shit about complexity. You are the faggot who doesn't know shit about software development getting up on your soapbox about how the software was developed wrong.

Secondly, Next works. It uses far too much CPU time to run on 2ch's donated servers, but it actually works.

> I know this and I didn't sign up to code the new Infinity and outshill even fucking Lynx for the part because I recognize that I'm not qualified.

Part of the reason Josh got the job was because HW wanted to use Postgres (to jerk off a friend of his), and Lynx insisted on using MongoDB.

>>46277

>2ch's donated servers

You always mention this any time someone points out that Next is not built for the job.

"2ch's donated servers" are the best and most hardware 8ch has ever had, and the reason it's still around, unless I'm greatly mistaken.

2ch's donated servers are exactly what 8ch was always going to run on from the beginning of Next.

If it doesn't work on 2ch's donated servers it does not work as 8ch, and it is an utter failure, because it does not meet the requirements, whereas the glitchy and outdated Infinity still does.

It's not news to us that Next's back end would have been leagues better than this shit if it were built to the system specified.

>Infinity is three times as much code.

Three times as much code that works on the servers available.

>You don't know shit about programming.

You don't know shit about software in general. Software which does not and will not perform its function at all in the environment it was built for is without exception less useful than software which functions badly but still functions. You are currently posting on a Tinyboard-supported board, not a Next-supported board. You are fucking retarded.

>You don't know shit about complexity.

You don't know shit about usability.

>You are the faggot who doesn't know shit about software development

You are the faggot who doesn't know shit about deliverables.

>getting up on your soapbox about how the software was developed wrong.

Correctly developed software runs on the hardware it was developed for.

>Lynx insisted on using MongoDB

I also dislike MongoDB, and in fact dislike Lynxchan in general, but I notice that Lynxchan seems likely to run on the servers 8chan uses, which would naturally make it infinitely better than Next.

It's not as if it was just "one little flaw", it was one thing after another, an endless chain of flaws, only to find out Josh didn't even know what hardware he was coding for. Blame him or blame HW or blame 2ch for that, but don't pretend Next was a wonderful success story and Josh dindu nuffin

And since you work for the government, tell your superiors to get someone to fix their fucking server security before you worry about adding "necessary new features". If the security hole is 60yos who can't remember a password without writing it on a sticky note in every room of their private residence, start by recommending their immediate resignation.

The amount of federal leaks is embarrassing.

>>46278

I mention 2ch's donated hardware for two reasons. 1) It's shit: as Odilitime's test showed, better hardware is capable of running Next just fine. The only software developers who develop for specific hardware are called embedded software developers. 2) To remind you that Jim fucking owns 8chan. Jim "Datamine the Users" Watkins owns the fucking site, and the Next ordeal just rubs in how true it is. If Josh took HotWheels for a ride, it's not as fucking far as Jim has managed to ride him.

The most ironic part is that Next was broken from the start. How HotWheels intended on using the software was in violation of the license he chose for it. And that is why it will NEVER be used on 8chan.

>>46279

>better hardware

8chan does not have better hardware than 8chan has you fucking retard.

I have been saying for MONTHS "watch the bloat, watch the bloat, check your overhead, smoother features and less I/O are great but watch the bloat, remember you have to run in Infinity's Web 1.0 footprint, watch the bloat, hey Josh are you absolutely sure this doesn't take more server resources than Infinity? Because it has to run on the same servers. OK. Just checking. Please watch the bloat."

Now you're sperging out telling me I don't know what I'm talking about because oh, hey, the bloat killed Next because it can't run on the actual servers. So if you're going to defend Next steal a new rack from the fuckos and mail it to Hotwheels, and if not fuck off and stop masturbating to hypothetical server hardware, retard.

>The only software developers who develop for specific hardware are called embedded software developers

I was going to ask if you actually work for the feds after this but then I reflected that they probably have zero fucking hardware standards.

"Hurrrrrr what's mem limit? What's big-O? I r not embedded system dev I can't have any way of knowing what I'm writing this for or what level of system resources I can use…even given this is written partly to replace software that uses too much of another resource. It's just completely out of my hands what overhead my program somehow magically ends up requiring!"

Seriously, please just take yourself out back and shoot yourself if you actually believe this.

>Jim "Datamine the Users" Watkins

Oh, I see, so you're shilling for Hiroyuki. Well, that explains quite a bit I guess. I would just like to remind you at this juncture that YOU NEED TO GO BACK.

>Next was broken because Josh is autistic about licensing

Yes, if all of the devs who contributed to the software for the benefit of 8ch found out it needed a slight adjustment in which particular version of Stallman's autism 2ch was willing to deal with, and this equates to the software being broken.

The software isn't broken because it's incapable of running within the constraints of the userbase and servers it's built for (despite Josh having access to the test servers), it's because surely none of them would have agreed to change from AGPL to GPL…oh wait except they all completely did except Josh because he's a spiteful, autistic, incompetent fuck.

Please just chop off your fingers before you type any more stupid bullshit.

>>46278

> If the security hole is 60yos who can't remember a password without writing it on a sticky note in every room of their private residence, start by recommending their immediate resignation.

I work with these people, and you sound just like fucking one of them.

>>46280

> "Hurrrrrr what's mem limit? What's big-O? I r not embedded system dev I can't have any way of knowing what I'm writing this for or what level of system resources I can use…even given this is written partly to replace software that uses too much of another resource. It's just completely out of my hands what overhead my program somehow magically ends up requiring!"

It's called premature optimization: you don't optimize the code until you know what your bottlenecks are. You don't know what kinds of disgusting shit I look at because some cocksucker I work with decided that he needed to optimize something the program does once every ten minutes. This is a tenant of professional software development, something that you have repeatedly shown to know nothing about.

>>46285

And what I'm telling you is that I'm not interested in you projecting your "workplace stress" bullshit onto Next.

Or is the problem that you're exactly as fucking incompetent as Josh and cannot deal with a hardware budget? Because if it's not, go fuck yourself for conflating the issues. But if it is, then maybe you should kill yourself because you're less competent at coding than old government fucks.

>>46285

>It's called premature optimization: you don't optimize the code until you know what your bottlenecks are.

JOSH COULD AND SHOULD HAVE EASILY KNOWN YOU FUCKING RETARDED COCK GOBBLER WE HAVE BEEN OVER THIS THREE TIMES IF YOU ARE TOO STUPID TO ABSORB THIS SIMPLE INFORMATION, FUCKING KILL YOURSELF

The correct time to look at optimization is not after the entire project has been "finished" and does not run, will not, cannot run on the target hardware once delivered and being used as a replacement.

>You don't know what kinds of disgusting shit I look at because some cocksucker I work with decided that he needed to optimize something the program does once every ten minutes.

And I don't fucking care, so why don't you go cut yourself or something until you grow some sort of basic human capacity for objective thought?

Or really just beat yourself to death with a wall for being this much of a faggot.

>This is a tenant of professional software development

Bloating up and ignoring all advice to the contrary until release is not professional fucking software development.

Are you honestly so fucking full of shit that you've never even heard of non-functional requirements?

Every. Design. Process. Do not leave out the non-functional requirements, you retard. If you're going to complain about people being old-fashioned, get your head out of your ass and your ass out of the 90s. There's a reason around half of all "professional" software projects don't adequately deliver, and it's mostly that stupid fucks like Josh and apparently you will not, cannot, or just plain don't understand things like non-functional requirements, iterative development (this includes optimization periods, fucking obviously!), or just in general the concept of actually making sure you know what you should be coding so you don't end up with a "perfect :^)" solution that does not fit the customer purpose.

>something that you have repeatedly shown to know nothing about.

Get the fuck out with your ignorance of non-func requirements and your bullshit about not coding withing system limitations. Fuck right off and take your shitty amateur hour bullshit with you.

Fuck's sake, you're just like an equal and opposite evil of kilobyte-pinching /tech/ morons. You deserve each other.

something that you have repeatedly shown to know nothing about.

http://irclogs.8ch.net/rizon/%238chan-dev/2016-01-29

#8chan-dev logs

Pls put this in the OP nunu

>>46347

done

>>46274

>Josh, just stop.

I'm not josh, and he is a mini moot.

>>46274

>still cannot run with current bandwidth or number of boards, despite months of hearing it's one little fix away from perfection

Yeah, it's missing a caching layer because of underpowered hardware.

>>46279

Nah, it'll be used.

Josh will probably sublicense it to him for $100 when he wants to go get drunk.

Hothweels little mini-moot tantrum made things a lot more difficult and it'll be surely more embarassing. Because he just publicly burned the bridge of software that's very much complete, only missing a caching layer, versus software that's not complete, has no importer, has front-end templating, localization, and plugins that make vichan look fucking sane, has fundamental storage flaws due to no file locking, etc.

>>46420

The hardware is the hardware 8ch has had since day 1.

It is the hardware Infinity runs on.

It is no mystery.

When is this going to sink in for you?

The problem is not the hardware, the problem is Josh cannot code for the hardware.

If it can't run on the current hardware, it needs to be less beefy.

Might entail cutting features, might have just entailed Josh understanding the cost of nested loops and not overusing them so much.

This is really pretty simple.

>>46420

Not that you need a caching layer because of underpowered hardware, firing up PHP for every request (not exactly how it works, but simply stated) is pretty inefficient, so you'd want it anyways.

It's just that it can't reach the benchmark on the hardware provided without it.

>>46421

Infinity isn't heavily dynamic.

You seem to have no idea of the difference between the two architectures.

When you load a page in Infiinity: it does nothing. Literally, shit is served from nginx. Everything is a file. This thread is a file that is rebuilt with a PHP script, but in no way is PHP needed to serve.

PHP is needed to serve with Next, unless there's a further caching layer. Hell, there could be even more optimizations done to it and it'd do better. But the best optimization that could be done is putting mods and admins through a seperate endpoint, caching anonymous views, and doing all of this between fastcgi. Josh didn't want to do exactly that, he wanted all the dynamic bits with edge side includes and such, which surely is a "better way" to do it in you want everything to go through one endpoint but it's much more complex.

>>46421

Also, the issue with "nested loops" doesn't fucking matter compared to the time spent in a heavy templating engine. It's not even on the fucking map.

>>46424

>>46431

It's on the fucking map if he nests loops too deep, because the log keeps getting shittier.

I'm also not seeing how either of your posts explain why it's definitely gr8 for Next to be built for hardware Hotwheels doesn't have.

>>46254

>The fact that you benchmarked it for hardware you didn't fucking have constitutes a failure to correctly load test. I don't give a fuck whose error in communication that was, frankly.

To my understanding he didn't even load test it properly. He tested it under x amount of users, but without a populated database. Which is the reason he had to immediately go and rewrite the postgres handler. So it was 'tested' on different hardware with significantly different conditions.

What is the current long term plan?

Are we really going to stick with vichan?

>>46464

That would be one miracle too many. I hope, hope, hope we get a solid year of steady fixes and no more than minor experimentive tinkering before Hotwheels scratches the radical redesign itch again.

The overall 8chan community needs some recovery time in the workable here and now, before we attempt another jump forward into whatever chromium plated future shock fate awaits.

>>46464

I believe that is the plan, yes. After that, who knows.

>>46278

>>46280

>>46287

So much this.

If you're trying to build a system on hardware that won't support it, you might as well be trying to start a space program by abiding by fictional laws of physics.

Oh look! Your rocket blew up on ignition. Perhaps you should have developed it for our actual laws of physics instead.

>>46610

That's not how it works, you fucking retard.

It's missing a caching layer.

8chan would be blowing up it if didn't have multiple caching layers as well.

It can run comfortably on more powerful computers as is. It can run comfortably with a robust caching layer on the hardware we have now.

No one wants to finish it though. So it's $12k wasted just because Hotwheels has to have a little cripple tantrum after he knew he fucked up by cutting him loose without signing a license exception.

>>46616

Kill yourself Josh, you fucking failure of a human being.

>>46616

So let me get this straight, Josh: you were trying to do this migration on something that you knew was missing a critical part it needed to function?

That's some industrial-grade incompetence right there you can't buy that shit at the store

>>46619

>>46621

>implying josh

The critical part is above Infinity Next.

It's just a lot more complex the way he's trying to go about it (mods and anonymous are all served via one endpoint.)

If someone, anyone, changed all of the dynamic moderation bits to go over another endpoint, the site could be cached easily, instead of the complex hacks needed for sessions and edge side includes and such for varnish.

I don't really have time for that, though at a glance it looks like the seperate endpoint is the easiest way to go about it. Josh thinks its contrary to his 'vision.' 2ch developers will not work on it due to the license. And Hotwheels doesn't want to work on that codebase beyond small changes and he fucked off Josh in his cripple tirade and now it's basically $12k down the drain if someone else doesn't fix it.

No one will want to donate to 8chan in the future, and no one will want to work publicly either after that burned bridge.

Here's another article by copypaste about the coffee shop incident that josh has been referring to.

https://medium.com/@infinitechan/the-smoking-cup-of-coffee-3ac35aa3234#.6s08ke87b

And here's josh's perspective on the whole thing.

https://medium.com/@ItsJoshProbably/why-8chan-will-not-be-getting-infinity-next-d8116d162c7#.bvby8x43x

I'll update the op with these two, and i'll also note that both links have links to previously private IRC logs.

The captcha isn't stopping the CP bots, you should remove it

PLEASE BLOCK TOR AND PROXY USERS, THEY ARE SPAMMING CHILD PORNOGRAPHY.

please?

>>46759

Mods can do that already but it doesn't have much of an effect and interrupts regular users. A lot of people use Tor because the internet is censored in there country or because of privacy concerns.

>>46759

No.

Just disable it for a. SHORT period in the day (hour) and go back to normal.

Jesus now I feel bad for Hotwheels.

Funny how the SJW manage to close all your payment accounts man, those cunts have power and influence.

But I gotta say sites like 8chan will never make money mate. Nobody with financial resources will even dare to do an "anonymous" BTC donation.

There is a reason why reddit (RIP /Jailbait) and 4chan were cleaned up.

I don't know if this is the right to post this, but fuck it.

What exactly is the problem causing the double posting shit?

I know the following:

>user makes post

>something fucks up

>post goes through and is in the database

>but infinity doesn't understand this and won't load the new post

>user tries to submit post again

>flood detected

>>option A: user understands the post is there and either waits or makes a new post to force the update

>>option B: user adds a line of redtext screaming "CRIPPLEKIKE, FIX YOUR SHIT" and double posts

What I don't know is what the "something" is, or why it fucks up.

Does anyone know?

>>47235

When IRCWheels' emoji language is finished.

>>47244

>mocking someone for making the hottest conlang of the decade using the few grunts of newspeak you have left

NaCl+Fe

>>47310

nigger