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File: cff7f82959d0c69⋯.jpg (484.69 KB, 1600x1067, 1600:1067, 9357.jpg)

8fad61  No.12146549

Why is testosterone so heavily regulated?

<Mod edit: Thread violates rule #4. Bumplocked in stead of deleted for the decent posts in here.

Post last edited at

10036c  No.12146555

File: 57f39cac0509c91⋯.jpg (14.81 KB, 193x260, 193:260, 1517788234560.jpg)

So Switch sales go up.


8c647b  No.12146556

>get test level checked

>have basically 0

>100x less than "average" male

>tfw no feel to describe that feel

What do?


000000  No.12146561

Gives you energy and makes you think clear.. next you know, you're part of the revolutionary force..


8fad61  No.12146562

>>12146556

can't you get treatment?

I had low t but I didn't get any treatment because I was "still in the clear", yet they have no problem injecting 14 year old boys with estrogen though

really activates my almonds


10036c  No.12146565

File: b47d0eb1453881a⋯.png (1.81 MB, 1920x1080, 16:9, testosterone increase.png)


e21cd3  No.12146566

I got no T but I got a lot of heroin so its ok


b670e3  No.12146568

>>12146556

>>no feel to describe that feel

You're already doing it, by not feeling.


3e1acf  No.12146595

>>12146565

Only came in this thread for this.

Cheers.


422503  No.12146599

Because (((Sports)))


10036c  No.12146611

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>12146595

I bet this works too.


5ba3a5  No.12146633

File: b357471484361b6⋯.webm (4.91 MB, 700x394, 350:197, tap.webm)

>>12146549

webm related-


4afb17  No.12146651

>>12146633

Checked and kek'd.


5163c6  No.12146658

>>12146556

>What do?

Go back to the kitchen


fb29a3  No.12146677

>>12146556

When faces with any sort of health issue, there's a few things you need to look at

1. Am I poisoning myself?

2. Am I consuming calories and starving with a full stomach, or am I obtaining true nutrition (the things a body needs not just to survive but thrive)?

3. Does my environment and lifestyle allow me to have a healthy body and mind?

The immediate thing you can do is cut all added sugars and most of the carbohydrates/grains out of your diet, even if they are considered "healthy". Sugar is a hormone disruptor. You don't have to go full keto, but try to stay under 100 grams of carbs, which is when the chemically negative aspects of sugars start being apparent. Doing this alone will help the majority of people with erectile dysfunction.

I would recommend reevaluating your diet, because you are a chemical system and food is the single biggest way you chemically interact with the world. This is the first edition of what is probably the best health book around.

https://archive.org/details/DeepNutritionWhyYourGenesNeedTraditionalFood

I highly recommend reading chapter 8 and 9 first to understand how to stop poisoning yourself.

Coupled with things like this >>12146565 you may not be cured, but you'll absolutely be much better off than before.


e3d19f  No.12146690

File: 352a8f21b22bea7⋯.jpg (104.65 KB, 1280x720, 16:9, Unamused Baiken.jpg)

>>12146556

Are you actually a female? If not, fucking exercise and lift weights.


3daa51  No.12146702

>>12146556

>What do?

Apply for a job at Buzzfeed, you'd be hired without an interview.


c458b8  No.12146735

>>12146556

i had none, so i found a doctor to prescribe a T cream. Use it whenever i need to do heavy lifting work. works a dream. I get cranky, tho


ed676d  No.12146775

>>12146562

Reminder that not only have "regular" testosterone markers been continuously lowered for years, but also testing companies find averages by comparing you to other tests that they have, so if you live in a low test area or lots of younger men are tested (because testosterone has been going down by 1% per year) you could have 200-400 and be completely normal according to "doctors".

You owe it to yourself to self medicate if your testosterone is low. You can also get it much cheaper by just buying it online.

>>12146633

Love that memory.


ed676d  No.12146790

>>12146735

That's not how testosterone works, it's not a stimulant. You need to be using it regularly or else you are just fucking with your endocrine system.

Also you can't have literally zero unless your testicles shut down completely.


10036c  No.12146825

>>12146775

Doctors are such scum. They'd have to be to operate in the kiked up medical field. I basically don't trust anyone who's successful in any major field these days. You know they put up with, enact, and necessarily condone evil every day of their lives


4fa5d7  No.12146830

>>12146556

Go on a test cycle asap, if your levels are that low even the jewed up doctors will give you a script for it. Eat better, sleep better, exercise. You probably also need to lose weight.


000000  No.12146843

>>12146825

>Doctors are such scum. They'd have to be to operate in the kiked up medical field. I basically don't trust anyone who's successful in any major field these days. You know they put up with, enact, and necessarily condone evil every day of their lives


0cb690  No.12146908

File: 8373d2360d8197b⋯.jpg (556.88 KB, 720x960, 3:4, S80705-140927(1).jpg)

File: d99c6217099ada7⋯.jpg (28.23 KB, 500x332, 125:83, hrossthumbsup.jpg)


22656a  No.12146928

go suck a breeding bull's cock and swallow his cum. you'll increase your T in no time


0cb690  No.12146929

File: a9571a03129fd92⋯.jpg (65.67 KB, 413x620, 413:620, hross2.jpg)

this is a thread of underrated importance, it took me years of trying to 'get hard' with fucked natural levels, and i struggled with depression and lethargy the entire fucking time

testosterone is fucking life


a420e1  No.12146949

File: 211de20c7389ed3⋯.png (442.08 KB, 511x714, 73:102, 211de20c7389ed391dc56f56ca….png)

I think /pol/ gives too much credit to testosterone. Mine is low, and I've always been alpha as fuck.


599a79  No.12146953

>>12146949

your bait is shit and so are you


70dfc1  No.12146956

>>12146949

being jewish doesn't count, (((you're))) just the recipient of unfathomable fucktons of nepotism and theft.


a848b4  No.12146958

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

>>12146775

>>12146677

>>12146556

How old are you? Diet and exercise need to be on point (diet is much more important) and if that's not right fix it immediately. See /fit/

If you have money and medical care get script for testosterone from doctor. Otherwise you can easily buy what you need online.


0f7729  No.12146959

any tips on getting T without getting v&?


0cb690  No.12146966

>>12146959

walk into your nearest gym and ask the bigboiis about getting some testosterone enthanate


35aab0  No.12146967

>>12146959

Behind gyms are the only way I've heard of to be reliable.


70dfc1  No.12146970

>>12146959

kill jews until the water stops containing xenoestrogens.


a4b850  No.12146972

>>12146970

you have to kill all the chinks and niggers dumping plastic trash in the rivers and oceans


c96586  No.12146975

File: cd6cf112db58f70⋯.jpg (113.91 KB, 1000x1000, 1:1, Hope.jpg)

>>12146549

Just get away from all the crap they've been feeding you from the time you were born.

We've had loads of threads on this very subject, you have no need for test, you can manufacture all you need.

Your test is being inhibited by processed foods and plastics, as well as the crap they put in your water. And if you're on any drugs the "experts" claim you need, GET OFF THEM.

The best way to raise test is to lift. "Hard times create hard men" is completely true, the tougher your physical existence is, the more your body will react and adjust to it.

If you REALLY want to wonder why they've made a hormone illegal, you would be better off looking at HGH for the elderly. Tests done in the 80's indicated that many of the diseases of old age could be alleviated and even cured by the introduction of HGH.

This, however, would depress drug sales for the drugs used to "treat" the symptoms, and it also has to do with HGH being in the public domain, you can't patent it.

But you can increase your test on your own, and doing so keeps your body in chemical balance. Introducing outside test shrinks your balls and causes your body to produce less of its own, because it doesn't need it.

The answer is to live a lifestyle where your body DOES need more, and to get rid of all the outside crap that suppresses that production.


c458b8  No.12146983

>>12146790

you know nothing.

Use it in the morning and it shifts the balance between t3 and rt3 (thyroid hormone) which gives you more stamina.

Increased stamina along with T helps build muscles.

I can feel when i need more, as my form starts to slip.

>Also you can't have literally zero unless your testicles shut down completely.

what testicles?


0cb690  No.12146991

File: 02e0188b4ca6d2d⋯.jpg (75.28 KB, 352x360, 44:45, beefhross.jpg)

File: e3bcdee6cec165a⋯.jpg (358.55 KB, 936x628, 234:157, PSYCHOTIC AUTISTIC SCREECH….jpg)

>>12146975

ideally you'd be right, but i fear much of the damage is irreversible

besides, if we're gonna do anything, might as well go whole-fucking-hog, horse-mode supermutant

t. straight outta mengale's labratory tbh


c96586  No.12146992

>>12146983

>>Also you can't have literally zero unless your testicles shut down completely.

>

>what testicles?

Gross.


65a319  No.12146994

File: d7600ff664ad0aa⋯.webm (1.11 MB, 1280x720, 16:9, Charles.webm)

>>12146633

Charls is love.


8fad61  No.12146998

>>12146775

>You can also get it much cheaper by just buying it online

Where can I get safe testosterone then?

I know some people who are in the drug business but I'm not sure if they're willing to get it for me


000000  No.12147004

>>12146972

>The world's first fully synthetic plastic was bakelite, invented in New York in 1907 by Leo Baekeland[4] who coined the term 'plastics'.[5] Many chemists have contributed to the materials science of plastics, including Nobel laureate Hermann Staudinger who has been called "the father of polymer chemistry" and Herman Mark, known as "the father of polymer physics".[6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic

Plastic Fantastic.

Since you want to blame it on others, please consider choking on a piece next time you drink from a plastic bottle or use a plastic bag.


3436d2  No.12147005

>>12146556

even women don't have basically 0 test, anon


0efe30  No.12147016

>>12147005

so u nuts dont get 2 deep


0cb690  No.12147023

>>12146998

this is where it really requires some social skills, talk to the gymbros, see what everyone else is running

eventually you'll find a circle of guys that are into it and you're away

a lot of guys will team up & pool their money to buy in bulk, help each other out with administering & experience etc.

it'd be quite daunting to undergo alone at first otherwise


fe96ff  No.12147024

Unsaturated fats cause estrogen to accumulate instead of being filtered out by the liver. The modern diet of vegetable and see oils combined with xenoestrogens in everything is the cause of the modern soyboy epidemic. Stop eating all oils other than coconut and olive. The only other fats you should eat are animal fats. This will let your body start filtering out the accumulated estrogens. Avoid plastics, tap water, receipts, etc and you can reduce your exposure to estrogens to low enough levels that your body can filter them out if it isn't being poisoned with unsaturated fats. After 3 months you will begin to resemble a man, this is normal, do not be alarmed.


a848b4  No.12147027

>>12146998

The proper route to go is to first get all the medical stuff ruled out to figure out why your test level is unusually low (brain tumor, testicular cancer, etc.) You don't want to just start injecting yourself if you have some kind of real medical issue that has to be addressed first. If you're under age 28 it's pretty unlikely that your levels would be super-low without some kind of real medical issue. If you're not a /fit/ bro you should become one right away (stop eating garbage, ride your bike places, lift weights). Download the Stronglifts 5x5 app and do that if you haven't already. Spend a few months on this health-kick stuff and see how it's working for you. If it's working great, your Testosterone levels will probably come up naturally on their own. If you've already done all the diet and exercise stuff for months or years and your levels are still low then you have to go the medical route. A web search for steroids source review forums will turn up dozens of websites that sell testosterone online (because all the bodybuilders use the stuff). But that should be your LAST resort after you do all the easy stuff first (Medical check to rule out serious diseases, fix diet, fix exercise.)


a848b4  No.12147034

>>12146998

Also make sure you have your sleep on point. Sleep is hugely important. If you stay up all night online shitposting or lurking you're going to fuck up your hormone levels. Are you getting 8-9 hours of sleep regularly?


2d8b8c  No.12147037

File: 096880ac237ed70⋯.jpg (403.68 KB, 1920x1080, 16:9, Test results.jpg)

I had my GP check my testosterone via blood test recently.

Results were that I have 10 nmol/L Test. Where the normal ranges are 10-33.

So I am at the very lowest end of whats normal range.

Anyway he refused to write me a prescription for anything. Saying that "as a 21 year old man this isn't something to worry about".

Well I'm worried. I don't want low test as I'm aware of all of its benefits.

I live in Queensland Australia.

Do any of you know if there are doctors here that will prescribe test from these results?

Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated.


a848b4  No.12147039

File: deed459afc24836⋯.pdf (313.2 KB, barbell_medicine_sullivan.pdf)

https://startingstrength.com/articles/barbell_medicine_sullivan.pdf

Lifting weights is a huge thing too. If you're not hitting the weights, that's something you can start.


0cb690  No.12147051

>>12147037

you'd need to go to a mens clinic, and they'll charge you like a hungry jew and only give you enough to get you back to kosher average levels


8fad61  No.12147052

>>12147034

>Are you getting 8-9 hours of sleep regularly?

yes


9897bc  No.12147053

they don't want the average person to realize all the sportsball players and celebrities they worship use massive amounts of steroids to look good and almost anyone can do it with access to the same drugs


10036c  No.12147055

>>12147052

The important question is "Are you waking up feeling rested?". Some people need more than 8 or 9 hours. Just get enough, whatever that is.


8fad61  No.12147062

>>12147055

>Are you waking up feeling rested

meh, allergies fuck me up pretty bad

I used to take meds but they just trade 1 symptom for another so I stopped taking them a while back


a848b4  No.12147063

>>12147037

https://www.australiansteroids.com/

Quick web search turns up these guys, no idea if they are legitimate or not.

21 is very young to have low T / hypogonadism without something else going on.

Are you already doing all the healthy lifestyle stuff (diet, exercise?) Are you overweight or staying up all night on the computer?

If I were you, anon, I would first try to find another doctor and figure out why the level is so low. Pituitary Adenomas are pretty common benign tumor that they can remove through the roof of your mouth in about 20 minute surgery

(from wikipedia) While pituitary adenomas are common, affecting approximately one in 6 of the general population, clinically active pituitary adenomas that require surgical treatment are more rare, affecting approximately one in 1000 of the general population.

Before you self-inject make sure you don't have pituitary adenoma.

In general, at age 21 diet and exercise should send your Test levels sky high.


33c928  No.12147072

https://steroidsourcetalk.org/


fc16ae  No.12147073

>>12146958

>buy what you need online

Where?


33c928  No.12147076

>>12147073

>>12147072

https://www.steroidsourcetalk.org/mybb/

happy pinning


a848b4  No.12147080

Can also first try to supplement Zinc, Boron. If you are deficient in those it can give you low-T. I would guess you get plenty of sun in QLD but make sure your vitamin D is not low, too. If you never go out in the sun your vitamin D could be low.


10036c  No.12147083

>>12147062

>allergies

Eat local raw honey. Local meat as well.


fc16ae  No.12147087

So doctors refuse IN COLLUSION with big pharma to dispense test? Does this mean that doctors need to die as well? The list is getting so huge…lugenpresse, politicians, government, doctors…


fc16ae  No.12147089

>>12147076

Thx anon!


a848b4  No.12147091

>>12147076

>happy pinning

If the anon is 21 he shouldn't have to

As much as it's a pain you need to find another doctor and first rule out all the stuff that could cause the Low-T. Also lifting weights and proper diet is an absolute (not optional) requirement. If you're not lifting weights already don't even think about injecting yourself.


fcafc8  No.12147096

>Big brother pharma wants to be a monopoly

>you need cures

>Pharma has cures

You know the next step


000000  No.12147100

>>12147037

find another doctor.. test until someone prescribes it


a848b4  No.12147102

>>12147087

I'm not so sure that doctors need to die, it's more a case of them being trapped in a crappy system where they lose their jobs if they do what they should be doing. Fix the system and they can do their jobs properly.

>Anon goes to doctor and complains of low T

>Doctor checks and T is super low

>Anon is 21

>Doctor knows he can be fired or fined or jailed if he prescribes Testosterone to 21 year old because it's against guidelines set by the Government

>Tells 21 year old to stop worrying about it


33c928  No.12147103

>>12147091

He might not need bodybuilding doses.

https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/index

https://www.reddit.com/r/steroids/wiki/trt/list

I highly recommend this subreddit. One of the best on the site, great memes and valuable info. Make use of it before it gets banned for "toxic masculinity" or some shit.


33c928  No.12147105

>>12147087

There's a simple solution to this complex problem: gas the kikes


000000  No.12147106

>>12147037

oh btw don't know how much 33 is by european standards but where I tested 300 was the lowest limit, normal was 600 and high 900


33c928  No.12147112

>>12146677

By the way thanks for this book anon, I'm only like 50 pages in and I can already see that it's great. It's blackpilled on lookism even though it's written by a femoid, this doesn't happen often. Paleo ftw

>>12147106

Fuck the (((norms))). Testosterone levels distribution in society follows the normal curve. All you need to do is google this curve and check what T levels correspond to about 80th percentile. Aim for that level as a golden middle, with lots of gain and minimal side effects.


a848b4  No.12147113

File: ded9899e248d9ac⋯.png (180.59 KB, 1541x951, 1541:951, Screenshot 2018-09-13 at 0….png)

>>12147106

https://www.nebido.com/en/hcp/research/testosterone-tools/conversion-tool.php

You can convert the units, Low T Anon is around 300 it sounds like.


fc16ae  No.12147114

>>12147102

You got the story correct.


8af7dd  No.12147123

>>12147037

better diet, excercise, lift, be not a coward, be virtuous. To start with.

Something's fucking with you, it could be your water, your lifestyle, meds, or a ton of other things.

Methodically change the things you do and consume until you find what's harmful - don't stop there and keep it up, make "improving" your lifestyle.

doctors are not your friends


000000  No.12147124

>>12147113

Nice

>>12147112

Is there any way to see what was considered high in the 80s? If levels dropped over time they would drop what is considered normal too.


000000  No.12147132

Testosterone is androgen hormone that is crucial for the development of masculine traits within males. Testosterone levels are correlated with:

• Increased libido: testosterone is a sex hormone which has direct effects on your libido. Men with low libidos are often diagnosed with having low testosterone levels and are put on testosterone replacement therapy.

• Increased muscle mass: testosterone levels have a direct impact on the amount of muscle mass you can build. Generally men with higher levels are able to pack on more size on their frame.

• Increased bone density: Some studies have actually shown testosterone to play an important role in bone density.

• Decreasing chances of Alzheimer’s disease, various studies have shown low levels of testosterone to having being linked to Alzheimers

• Studies have indicated that low levels of testosterone might be linked with depression, many people who have suffered from low test levels have attested to the huge improvement gained upon increasing their levels.

A general trend has been observed by researchers of men’s testosterone levels lowering over the years. A big decline has been noted over the past 30 years. These changes are most likely the result of changes in the modern diet and lifestyle.

Now let’s go over 5 ways in which you can boost your testosterone levels naturally:

5. Exercise and lift weights

Men who exercise frequently are often associated with having higher test levels. Resistance training (using weights) has been noted to be the most effective method for building test levels up in the short term and long term. So if you want to boost your levels make sure you get on a good strength training program that has you doing big compound movements such as squats and deadlifts.

For beginners I suggest Strong lifts or even the Starting strength program my Mark Rippletoe. H.I.I.T Cardio which involves repeated bouts of high intensity work is often better for stimulating test levels than slower paced treadmill work. If you are doing some cardio choose to hit a bag or do barbell complexes over the elliptical machine if you want that test boost.

4. Minimize Stress and Cortisol levels

Long term stress whether from a boss who won’t give you a break, or unpaid bills can lead to increases in cortisol levels. High cortisol levels are devastating for test levels. Picture your hormones as kind of like a see saw. One of them goes up, the other goes down. You must do all that’s within your power to keep those cortisol levels down. Some things that you could consider doing to lower stress are:

• Meditation ( scientifically proven to lower stress)

• Deep Breathing ( as Elliot hulse says ‘breath into your balls’), sometimes “Deep breathing counters the effects of stress by slowing the heart rate and lowering blood pressure,” psychologist Judith Tutin, PhD, says

• Keep away from excessive use of stimulants, perhaps your 10 cups of coffee a day are having something to do with you elevated test levels, if you still want your man parts to work, perhaps it’s time you ease up on the caffeine.


000000  No.12147133

3. Eat more fat

Sounds crazy doesn’t it? You have always been told to keep away from fat yet ‘dietary fat’ plays an important role in optimizing your natural testosterone levels.

A study published in the Journal of Applied Physiology found that diets with higher amounts of monounsaturated and saturated fats have been shown to increase testosterone levels.

There is a point of diminishing returns however, an appropriate level dietary fat for testosterone production should fall somewhere in the ball park of 25-40% of your daily calories. Play around with these numbers to see what works for you.

Some good sources of fats that you could add into your diet are:

• Avocados ( my personal favourite )

• Almonds

• Peanut Butter

• Olive oil

• Egg yolk ( do not be afraid of the yolk )

2. Increase the zinc in your diet

The mineral zinc has been known to produce a favourable environment for test production; if your levels are low you might suffer. Zinc can be easily supplemented with pills but for the best result make sure you try get most of your Zinc from real foods. Eat the following to increase your levels:

• Protein rich meats

• Fish

• Oysters

• Crabs

1. Get more sleep

This last one should be a no brainer, make sure you are getting a proper amount of sleep and are not walking around like a zombie. A lack of sleep has been shown to be detrimental to testosterone production.

Research at the University of Chicago recorded the sleeping patterns of healthy men and found that the subjects' testosterone levels increased the longer they slept. 7-9 hours was noted to be the best in order to optimize the testosterone response.

An important note: the quality of sleep might be more important than the quantity of sleep. To ensure that you are getting adequate sleep at night I suggest you:

• Have a come down period where you de-load and get away from high stimulus material such as television and the internet. Tim Ferris suggests reading fiction books before sleep to ease your mind.

• Don’t drink too much water before the bed, or you will ruin your deep sleep each time you have to get up and run to the toilet.

• Use a white noise machine or play some binaural beats to ease yourself into bed

So those are 5 ways in which you can boost your testosterone levels. Your testosterone is one of the most important hormones in your body. If you want to live the good life, it is your reasonability that you do all that is within your control to keep them levels high. Just remember, if you aren’t waking up with some oak wood every morning. There is work that can be done! Let’s begin.


000000  No.12147134

Ask yourself - how much of what you consume has been in plastic?

Plastic is the tobacco of the 21st century. Problem is - you can stop smoking. You can't stop using plastic completely.

The first problem is a chemical group called phthlates. They’re used to make plastics soft and flexible, and as you might guess, they’re found in nearly all kinds of flexible plastics ranging from soda bottles to plastic bags. Phthlates are linked to delayed puberty, low testosterone, and feminine characteristics in various human and animal studies.

The second problem is a chemical called Bisphenol A or BPA. It’s also linked to low testosterone, increased estrogen, delayed puberty, and feminine characteristics in various human and animal studies (also explained in more detail below).

The third problem is that a huge list of chemicals used in the manufacturing process of plastic products are labeled as xenoestrogens, meaning that they mimic the effects of exogenous estrogen (female hormone) in the body. This includes the phthlates and BPA that I mentioned above, and also: PCBs, Bisphenol S (BPS), dioxin, vinyl chloride, styrene, phenolix, epoxy resin, PMMA, PTFE, and many many others…

https://www.anabolicmen.com/plastic-testosterone/

These are in your bottles, in your tubes of toothpaste, in your cheese packaging, in your food containers, in your plastic cups, cutlery and bags.

This Swedish study had 196 boys as subjects. The researchers measured phthlate levels from their mothers when they were still pregnant, and once the kids were 21 months old, their “anogenital distance” – which is a pretty solid fysical measurement of testosterone – was measured, to see if the phthlates had effect on the hormonal health of these 196 subject boys. The results were clear, the more phthlates the mother had in her system during pregnancy, the shorter the anogenital distance in the baby (the shorter the distance the lower the testosterone).

This study compared the men who worked at a chemical plant which manufactures BPA, to men who worked at a tap water factory. The results show that the men who worked in contact with BPA had significantly lower serum testosterone levels, and especially free testosterone levels, when compared to the tap water factory fellows.

In this study, the researches analyzed 18 different samples of bottled water. Eleven of the samples showed significant estrogenic response.

But does this affect your everyday plastic use?

In this study, the researchers tested 445 common plastic products to see if there was any estrogenic activity in them. 70% of the products induced significant estrogenic activity, and the number jumped to 95% when the products were altered to “real life” conditions, such as the microwave heat and putting them to dishwasher. Also note that many of the products in this study were labeled as BPA-free, yet they still induced estrogenic effects similar to BPA plastics.

Why isn't any government actively fighting this? Why would they?

Oh, and if that wasn't enough:

Billions are drinking water contaminated with plastic and US has it the worst, study finds

It's in your water.


33c928  No.12147136

>>12147124

>Is there any way to see what was considered high in the 80s? If levels dropped over time they would drop what is considered normal

Well you can look up studies from various dates.

IMO it doesn't matter, competition is relative, as long as your 8/10 or higher you're going to be the alpha male. If you're surrounded by low-T wimps, it doesn't take much to become better than them.


000000  No.12147138

Testosterone Is Decreasing by 1.1% Per Year - The Science Of Why and How To Stop It (ISC's Science Discussion Series 1)

Purpose: Testosterone is steadily declining in an age-independent manner in Western men. A growing subset of TRP and the scientific community is becoming increasing concerned by this downward trend's consistency. In this essay we're going to take a look at the evidence for this trend's existence, explore where it surfaced, and talk about some possible solutions. Luckily, none of the solutions will involve eating a mysteriously named African root that's going to make your dick stop working.

Preface

This is the first in a series of posts which aim to facilitate community discussion of Mens' issues from a scientific perspective. You will be presented the relevant evidence, followed by my own speculation and thoughts. Regrettably, some articles can only be accessed with University credentials (paywall), so I'll quote the relevant information in addition to citing the source. I encourage everyone who can to play along at home.

Shit, This is Actually Happening…

So you've likely heard that sperm counts and testosterone have taken a nose dive (sometimes cited as up to 50%!) in the last 2 decades in Western men. Is this just an excuse by your 35 year-old single mother landlord to justify why "there's no good men left"? Unfortunately not. The claim arises from a landmark study, "A Population-Level Decline in Serum Testosterone Levels in American Men" by Travison et al [1]. Although research on this subject is sparse, this study is rock solid as I will explain briefly.

First, however, let's review testosterone in the biological context!

Endocrine Glands and Really Big Hands (I assure you there's no problem.)

The cells of the body exist over a large spatial area and, much like the workers of Tampon-Corp (for which I am a shill), have to find a way to communicate. If the CEO lives in the brain, or more accurately the hypothalamus and pituitary gland in this case, then he has to evolve multiple methods of information dispersal covering varying distances. If he wants to tell the cell next to him "You're fired!", it's simple, all he has to do is bleb some signaling molecules in that direction that binds the "fuck off" receptor. This type of cell communication is called paracrine and only affects local cells.

However, lets say the boss wants to tell the dick cell (technical term) to proliferate or grow so the brain can swing around a 3rd leg. In that case his message needs to travel a long way, ideally using a fast moving liquid highway like the blood stream. To accomplish this the master regulator of the brain, the hypothalamus, will send the pituitary gland cell some Gonadotropin-Releasing Hormone (GnRH), and the pituitary will then release two molecules known as Leutinizing Hormone (LH) and Follicle-Stimulating Hormone (FSH) into the blood stream. These bad boys will circulate throughout the body, eventually reaching the Leydig cells of the gonads causing the production and export of testosterone into your body. This phenomenon is known as a signaling cascade, and to be specific you've just learned about the Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Gonadal Axis (HPG Axis). Nice job, you now know more about the body than 90% of pre-med students.

Now hormones are exclusively signaling molecules and there's many complicated interactions wherein hormones trigger other glands to release a secondary hormone like above. Two of these derivative molecules are, of course, the sex hormones Testosterone and Estradial. Let's forget about estradiol for now because it makes you grow big, milky jugs.

Testosterone is a cholesterol-derived steroid hormone, meaning it has a very specific structure that allows it to pass through cell membranes, and this allows it to act on nearly every cell in the body, ultimately manifesting itself as the traits associated with sexual dimorphism. Side note: men and women respond to the molecule differently because they have different distributions of androgen receptors on their cells.


000000  No.12147139

Now, Testosterone doesn't just float around in your body interacting with everything like Chad at the club. After it's synthesis in the Leydig cells of the balls, testosterone hops a ride on the protein components of the blood. A bit less than 1/3 becomes bound to serum albumin, while the other 2/3 hooks up with creatively named sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG), with about 2% of testosterone remaining unbound and free in the blood - known as free testosterone, which has the ability to enter into cells and act [2].

Now that we know how testosterone exists in the blood we'll be able to better understand how it's measured. Keep this in mind because different papers use different metrics like:

Bioavaliable Test - same as free test, 2% of total

Total Test - free test + test bound to serum albumin and SHBG

The Landmark Study

Travison, et al. conducted a longitudinal study on 1532 men living in Boston (so we already know their test will be lower than typical ayyy). A longitudinal study is when the same group of men (referred to as a cohort), provides multiple data points over some time course t. In this case, each patient had their serum (total) testosterone and free testosterone measured at 3 periods over the course of about 25 years from 1987-2003.

Now naturally, as you know, testosterone declines as age increases. However, by cleverly utilizing a longitudinal approach to this study the researchers were able to compare different subjects' T levels at the same chronological age. In addition, Travison, et al. trimmed the sample data to reduce individuals with absurdly low or high test (under 100ng/dl or more than 1200ng/dl, respectively), and utilized self-reported metrics of health to further weed out men who developed prostate cancers or other abnormalities that may contribute to changes in T levels.

Metrics used are as follows:

Age

Chronic illnesses including Cancer, Heart disease, Diabetes, etc.

Depression

Prescription meds (by number - an unfortunant weakness of this study)

Education, Marital Status, and Socioeconomic Status

Weight, BMI, and hip-to-waist ratio

Cigarette smoking

Dietary intake (in cals & as grams fat/day)

Sedentary Activity (metric not specified here)


000000  No.12147140

Results

After deconvoluting that wealth of data and working some statistical black magic, the researchers end up reporting the following metrics.

Each year past 55 due to aging T levels were reduced by 1.6%. When adjusted for all of the above self-report metrics the rate was a decrease of 1.1% / year.

Each year for the past 20 years, the T levels of men decreased 1.2% in an age-independent manner, adjusted for above metrics resulted in a reduction of 1.0% / year.

What this means is that testosterone in the men of this cohort was decreasing as fast (roughly speaking) from an unknown source as from regular aging. This is scary stuff my dudes. Now remember how we listed off those metrics? Well we did that because the age-independent T decrease is likely coming from a source other than those listed.

As an interesting aside, in my estimation it seems pretty clear that peoples conformation to those self-reported metrics accounted for a decrease of about 0.5% annually. Might be worth thinking about.

So now that we have taken a look at the data, it's time to speculate what could actually be causing this population-level T decrease. In my last thread many people voiced their concerns and theories about this, ranging from big brother "turning the frickin' frogs gay" for population control to the role that a sedentary lifestyle might play (sitting on your balls all day ain't too great for them. Look up cyclists sperm counts if you're interested).

All of the following speculation and data was found by querying Gulag Scholar with the terms: "Testosterone Decrease, Population Testosterone Trends, Sex Hormone Trends", among other similar variations, with a filter excluding any results published prior to 1990.

Metabolic Syndrome - Eat Like Shit, Feel Like Shit

One oversight of the Travison, et al. study was that they used Diabetes as a variable in their data but left out metabolic syndrome, also known as pre-diabetes. Pitteloud, et al. conducted a study in 2005 looking at insulin sensitivity (a metric of metabolic syndrome) in men aged 25-65 years old, as well as the functioning of their HPG axis, and subsequently, serum T. The researchers also looked at the effect the blood concentration of our sex-hormone binding protein fraction (SHPG) had on total T.

Pitteloud, et al. ultimately reported a SHBG and BMI-independent correlation between serum T levels and insulin sensitivity, where if you're less pre-diabetic then your T is higher. [3]

Furthermore, by administering a hormone that stimulated Leydig cell production of T, the study excluded some elements of the HPG axis including the roles of leutinizing hormone and GnRH. Corroberating this study is another, Kaplan, et al, that found an extremely strong correlation between BMI, metabolic syndrome, and decreased T levels - again independent of LH and GnRH [4]. If there is interest we can address insulin sensitivity and how to increase it in another post, as it warrants its own discussion and presentation.


33c928  No.12147141

>>12147133

>• Avocados ( my personal favourite )

>• Almonds

>• Peanut Butter

>• Olive oil

Fuck that. Eat meat. Fatty animal meat and organs. Leave plants to the soyboys


000000  No.12147142

Miscellaneous Other Things That Affect T

Alcohol Abuse

Yup. Ethanol is a testicular toxin my dudes, and it's actually a double whammy. By the way, abuse is defined in this paper as a history 3+ years with elevated markers of alcoholism. According to Maneesh, M., et al (2006), "Alcohol abusers had significantly lower plasma T with low LH and FSH" (the data shows a reduction of about 25%!) and "[ethanol] causes fertility abnormalities with low sperm count and impaired sperm [movement] in men" [5]. The authors attribute these negative effects to the destruction of Leydig cell function by super-oxide radicals (these are basically products of normal cellular function that have extra electrons and like to fuck your shit up on the molecular level).

Moral of the story here is that if you want to drink heavily for 3+ years you might as well just chop off half of one of your balls.

Fatherhood

Well this one was unexpected. However, in a study comparing 14 men who did not go on to become fathers with 28 men who went on to have a child, a marked reduction in T was seen [6]. Also notable here is that the dad's had lower cortisol levels, which I found quite odd, as well as higher levels of estradiol (female sex hormone). I'm not sure what to make of this but I'm hopeful that some colorful explanations and theories will surface in the comments.

TL;DR and Conclusions

So whats the truth? What's affecting T levels across the West?

In my estimation, the most likely candidate would have to be metabolic syndrome and pre-metabolic syndrome.

I know that everyone wants to jump to the conclusion that the drops found by Travison, et al. are the result of malice or intentional hormonal sabotage, and it certainly is fun to speculate about that and I even welcome that. Regardless, the conclusion that seems evident to me is that many smaller factors are chipping away at our T levels over time, and that currently the research just isn't there to identify all the factors.


000000  No.12147144

>>12147141

Animals are injected with growth hormones.


110a82  No.12147145

>>12146556

>>12146562

I'm thinking you should go into the doctor and proclaim that you want to transition into being a man and demand testosterone… they'll give it to you or you'll sue them. Just say with zero T you currently are technically a woman but identify as a man and need some test.

The absolutely degenerate state of the Modern World: Doctors won't give it to you for medical reasons, only ideological reasons.


000000  No.12147149

>I'm 35 years old and 3 weeks ago I decided to visit a local men's anti aging doc to get my T checked. I've been overweight my whole life, never very into sports, wry few friends, major depression and anxiety issues. I'm wicked talented but have been told my whole life I'm not living up to my potential. I started swallowing TRP a few months back, but have had zero motivation to be my mission. I've had zero motivation to find what makes me happy and go after it, because I didn't know what happy was.

>I had recently started to experience some difficulties maintaining an erection, which scared me enough to get off my ass and get checked. That limp dick saved my life, I'm sure of it.

>The doc checked me out and my T levels were st 126 ng/so. Super low. What was interesting though was that the doc told me he suspects my testosterone has been low my whole life based on the size of my testes. That floored me. Suddenly life made sense. I've always felt like something was wrong with me. Like something was missing that everyone else seemed to have. I began to look back at events in my life through a completely different lens, wondering if TRT could actually be the silver bullet i've been looking for. I didn't want to get my hopes up though, because what if the doc was wrong and this was just something hat happened recently.

>Well, I can state conclusively at this point that I have definitely not been living with normal testosterone levels. This week I began to feel more at ease with myself than I've ever been. Comfortable in my own skin when before I constantly worried what others thought of me. I feel energetic and vibrant, like I'm alive for the first time.

>Sex has constantly been a source of anxiety for me. I never felt like my penis was good enough to satisfy a woman. This would cause me to get in my head during sex, struggle with climaxing too soon, and feel like I needed to compensate with my mouth and fingers because I just knew she wasn't really actually enjoying me fucking her.

>And then let night happened. Gentlemen, I'm not exaggerating when I say that for the first time in my life, I'm proud of my dick. I have never actually wanted to have sex more than once in a night. The few times there has been a round two, I wasn't really in to it. The drive to have sex left with the first nut. Until last night. I feel like I had never truly experienced what sex was supposed to be until now. I won't go in to specifics, but my plate mentioned numerous times how badly she wanted to send my doctor a gift basket. She came four times. She texted me this morning that she had to masturbate because she started thinking about last night. It was that good.

>I guess what I'm saying is, if you're struggling with your masculinity and feel like less of a man, get your T checked. If you don't feel like a fuckin cave man after having sex, get your T checked. If you've always struggled to put on muscle or keep fat off, get your damn T checked. It is changing my life, and it could change yours too.


000000  No.12147151

>>12147149

If cost is a problem you can go to privatemdlabs a website that allows you to get the blood drawn at a local doctors office and you get the results without your primary doctor knowing. IT ONLY COSTS $85!

Once you receive the score I urge you to try raising your score naturally. There are plenty of natural ways to raise test. Squats, eating red meat, eggs, more fats, zinc, etc. Don’t jump into TRT without doing research and talking to a doctor. Also, don’t treat yourself make sure you're under doctors care.

Before getting the test done I was 22 (142 lbs) under 10% bf. Very active going to the gym 5 days a week.

I recently went through the process of getting my testosterone looked at and I had a total t level of 320. Some say that you can naturally bump it up which I did try. However, after a few months, I decided to talk to a doctor and was put on TRT. My current dosage is 150mg every week and I feel great.

Some of the biggest changes for me were:

-sleeping through the night (used to wake up at 3 am every night)

-extreme sex dive

-more focus and energy

-higher drive and competitiveness

Physically I haven’t noticed a ton I’m obviously a lot more cut but not like steroids. You don’t automatically get ripped you just are able to put on muscle where in the past it was harder. You notice that you don’t get as sore that next day after a hard workout tho.


33c928  No.12147152

>>12147144

True but you can buy grass-fed meat from your local butcher


a848b4  No.12147153

File: 872f0db94eef6c1⋯.jpg (122.54 KB, 660x574, 330:287, testosteron-2.JPG)

>>12147124

Here's some guidelines. Low T anon should want to be at the top of the range, not the bottom of the range. High 20's or low 30's on his scale. His number is bad even for a 60 year old man.


000000  No.12147154

>>12147151

Last year I went to an endocrinologist for the first time. I was 32 and wanted to know where my testosterone levels were. You’re probably aware that recent studies have shown declining testosterone levels in men that don’t correlate with normal aging reductions in test levels (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/06/120623144944.htm). I wanted to see if I was part of that trend. My total test levels came back 663 ng/dl. My endocrinologist told me this was normal, but I wasn’t satisfied. I didn’t want to be just normal, I want to be better than that. I want my test levels as high as naturally possible. I got home that evening and set to work researching everything I possibly could about naturally increasing testosterone. I looked into supplements, exercises, diet and personal habits. I created a plan and decide I was going to cut out everything that might be holding me back and apply everything that might help; shotgun approach, I was 32 and didn’t have time to waste.

1 Getting Better Quality Sleep

So this is my biggest sin; I am a night owl. I couldn’t remember the last time I had slept more than 6 hours in a night. I frequently went to bed late (2am) and got up early (7am). It was never a problem for me. Unfortunately by doing this I was sabotaging my test levels. Sleep is when you’re body repairs itself and gets to work on creating sex hormones. This is why any good endocrinologist will schedule you for blood work early in the morning (this is when your test levels are highest). He also might tell you that if you aren’t waking up with an erection it’s a possible sign of declining testosterone. If you’re like me you will probably have a hard time changing this habit. Even if you put your body in bed at a decent hour your mind is going to be racing. For this problem I turned to supplements. There are a lot of products on the market that will help you with sleep; stay away from them. You’ll build a dependency on drugs like Unisom, and the packaged integrated herbal supplements are overpriced. After doing research I put together a cocktail of the following; 1 mg Melatonin, 200 mg 5-HTP, 120 mg Ginkgo Biloba, 600 mg St. John’s Wort. You can take this every night without any ill side effects or risk of dependency. I take this nightly and sleep like a baby. You’ll find that a lot of the pricier packaged herbal sleep aid supplements contain these ingredients. You can put together a one month supply of these ingredients for under 20 dollars by doing it yourself. Aim for 6-8 hours of sleep every night. Try to establish a routine that prepares your mind for rest. Your mind relies on cues more than you realize. By having a routine you’ll begin to rest more easily.

2 Eating the Right Breakfast

Another area where I was sabotaging my masculine health, breakfast. Most mornings I rushed out the door without eating. Maybe I’d have a drink of water, a nibble of cereal; not good enough. In the morning you want to eat protein rich foods. The go to food for breakfast and the food that’s going to supercharge your testosterone production has always been the egg. Not only are eggs a good source of protein but also amino acids which help your body metabolize protein chains, and cholesterol which is essential for increasing test levels. Eggs also will boost your immune system with Vitamin D. You may be concerned about cholesterol. I’ve been eating 4 eggs every morning for a year straight now and my LDL is 104 HDL 42. Eating eggs hasn’t had an adverse impact on my cholesterol, but you may be different. If you have cholesterol concerns just keep an eye on it. I also need to mention that if you can, buy free range eggs from a local farmers market. Store bought eggs will be lower in the protein and cholesterol you’re looking for and will have other inclusion you don’t want like estrogens and xenoestrogens. Store bought eggs come from chickens who are feed chicken feed which lacks the nutrients to create quality eggs for our purposes. Free range chickens eat worms, bugs etc. and are going to be more protein and cholesterol rich. A good way to tell a quality egg is by looking at the yolk. Yolks should be dark orange instead of yellow. They should look like the yolk to the left in this picture. http://s649.photobucket.com/user/hotzcatz/media/IMG_6789.jpg.html


000000  No.12147155

>>12147154

3 Lift, but Do the Proper Lifts

There are a lot of posts here that stress the value of lifting as far as SMV and aesthetics. This is of course good advice, but if you’re looking to increase your testosterone through lifting you need to make sure you’re doing the right lifts. If you’re hitting the gym and doing 4 sets of 20 reps on minor muscle groups you’re not doing anything to help your test levels other than keeping your body fat down. To see testosterone gains you need to be doing the 3 core lifts at least 3 times a week, which is; squats, deadlifts and bench press. On the days you’re doing your core lifts aim for 3 sets of 5 reps. After a few weeks of this you should notice sizeable gains in strength. Before I started this routine my squats were pretty anemic. I am now about 150 lbs. shy of the 1000 lb. club. Doing these core lifts is going to supercharge your testosterone production and will also fuel your muscle building potential for your other lifts. You should notice better and longer lasting pumps etc. There’s a reason why you see slogans like, “Squat or Go Home,” it works. One of the guys at danger and Play did a post on other exercises that increased testosterone, but I can’t seem to find it at the moment. If I am able to find it later I’ll include the link in an edit to this post.

4 Thrill of the Chase

So this one is going to be a touchy subject for some, especially those in an LTR or marriage. There is a lot of psychology at play in testosterone production and the potential reasons for the documented decline in average test levels. It’s been summarized that today’s average man may have half the total test levels that his grandfather had at his age. A lot of things factor into that; diet, exercise and lifestyle. So now I am going to address that last one, lifestyle. Yesterday’s man lived a more hard scrabble life than we do. He was almost assuredly more active. He ate a better more natural diet high in fat and cholesterol. He didn’t spend a lot of his time in the concern of raising children or homemaking, and in contrast to what others would have you believe he probably cheated on his wife…a lot. There’s this funny feature about our mind and bodies, they have this built in kind of self-fulfilling feedback loop. If you’re at home raising children and doing laundry you’re signaling your body to reduce testosterone production. It’s not a valuable hormone for dealing with crying children and house chores. Conversely if you’re out chasing tail you’re telling your body to ramp up that test production because you’re going to need it. This is one of the benefits of plate spinning. Men who engage in plate spinning and are always pursuing new females are keeping the test factory working overtime. Guys who aren’t put the workers on furlough. I am not saying that if you’re in a marriage or an LTR that you should cheat, but you should probably be taking it to the point that you know you could if you wanted to.

Conclusion

I just turned 33 last week and went back for another checkup with the endocrinologist. I was glad to hear that my test levels were measured at 857 ng/dl and that I am bucking the trend by increasing my total test levels with age. My goal is to continue a steady increase in my test levels through my thirties and try and maintain or see a very slow decline through my 40’s and 50’s. Hope this has been a help to someone.


000000  No.12147157

>>12147153

Yes. If it's under 600 most of your problems come from that.


f3847a  No.12147163

>>12146556

there are testosterone clinics for men. usually not covered by insurance, but affordable. most of them have free consultations.

their target consumers are middle aged men.


f9aa3a  No.12147173

cuz it would negate the estrogenation of the drinking water.


6e2ee7  No.12147231

>>12146556

Go to a men's clinic. You will feel fucking great, motivated and pack on muscle and lose fat. TRT is great, I even look forward to my weekly needle.

>>12146565

This is mostly a bullshit meme. You aren't going to go from low to top quartile by doing all these things.

>>12146908

Nice stash. I'm jealous.

>>12146966

Great way to look like a narc. If he's low, he can do it legally.

>>12147037

Australia is legendary in how restrictive they are about prescribing T. Can you go to a private clinic and pay out of pocket? You could also consider going on clomid instead of injections. Search on "secondary hypogonadism".


601d3c  No.12147232

>>12146825

The sick man is a parasite of society. In certain cases it is indecent to go on living. To continue to vegetate in a state of cowardly dependence upon doctors and special treatments, once the meaning of life, the right to life, has been lost, ought to be regarded with the greatest contempt by society. The doctors, for their part, should be the agents for imparting this contempt,—they should no longer prepare prescriptions, but should every day administer a fresh dose of disgust to their patients. A new responsibility should be created, that of the doctor—the responsibility of ruthlessly suppressing and eliminating degenerate life, in all cases in which the highest interests of life itself, of ascending life, demand such a course—for instance in favour of the right of procreation, in favour of the right of being born, in favour of the right to live. One should die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly.


b95f96  No.12147239

>>12146677 dub dubs

i got the same book after it being recomended here on 8pol

great book

easy to read

easy to skim through her fluff and get to the good stuff


000000  No.12147242

>>12147239

What it says in the book? Eat no sugar and processed foods?


000000  No.12147245

>>12147231

>Australia is legendary in how restrictive they are about prescribing T. Can you go to a private clinic and pay out of pocket? You could also consider going on clomid instead of injections. Search on "secondary hypogonadism".

Can't he get therapy in Mexico or Thailand or it's not safe?


a848b4  No.12147270

>>12147245

The only problem with Mexico or Thailand is that they're not in Australia…

But before he does any of that he needs to figure out exactly why his levels are so low. So first rule out the pituitary adenomas, etc.


a11775  No.12147276

LSD and testosterone is bad for you, goy


617090  No.12147281

On a related note, what would happen if I injected my daughter with estrogen just as she starts puberty?


0d8290  No.12147290

>>12147281

You know that birth control pills are just estrogen right?

You'll fuck her right up.

Leave her the fuck alone.


7a71cb  No.12147300

>>12146959

Woah estrogen is widely available and in the tap water while testosterone is illegal?


6e2ee7  No.12147303

>>12147281

Adding exogenous hormones turns off your body's production of same. Not good.

>>12147270

Yep, that's why I told him to look up secondary hypogonadism. It's not nearly as clear cut as "go inject", but most docs are not up on men's health issues. Probably less so in Australia.


a76253  No.12147308

>>12147300

>T

Makes your strong. Makes you fast. Makes you lash out at the jew

>Estrogen

Makes women crazy and unable to breed. Makes you docile. Turns men into women.


6e2ee7  No.12147311

>>12147300

Because roidheads shoot themselves with supraphysiological levels and sometimes go apeshit. Not just high levels, but other compounds like tren, which is known for having psychological effects. Roid rage isn't just a meme.

Shoot up estrogen and you will get weepy, emotional and eat a lot of ice cream.


601d3c  No.12147315

It seems pretty apparent testosterone levels are rapidly degenerating due to modern comfort and convenience which almost predispose us to a great amount of deficiencies in regards to the human body - what it needs. We are literally losing strength because we do not need strength; in modern society the trend is even to mock activity and celebrate vegetation and laziness. Most of us here that are aware of this are "thrown into the world" with little regards to care of our bodies without realizing it before we hit our 20s. What I mean is that this low testosterone is to be expected in a degenerate society today and we should all work on improving our strength in the midst of losing it. We've grown up in this "society" a "society" that is almost the recipe for physiological degeneration because it has inherently has become so antithetical to human nature. We will eventually lose our per-requisites that lead us to true progress (not the modern definition of progress which is nothing more than the sum of the decline of human instincts, thanks liberals) if we lose our manly virtues we will become nothing more than a cattle driven society.

So by all means, use pharmaceuticals to increase your hormone levels. I honestly believe that supplementation will at least dam up some degeneracy for awhile before it gets much worse. A supplemented society may last a decent while and maybe it could even trigger some type of reversal of the general decline in vitality. We don't know if TRT is even the answer though, it's really just more evidence of our increasing dependency even if it does make us feel like normal men.


000000  No.12147316

>>12146549

Because the kikes are forcing down testosterone levels so we all become weak and docile, thus unable to revolt.


a76253  No.12147320

>>12147303

>>12147311

You seem to know about this anon so I'll ask. I've never used T or any of the PEDs because I was afraid my balls/dick would shrink. I'm 32 and feel like I don't have nearly as much strengh as my father. I'd like to start doing a cycle/taking these drugs in combination with lifting/working/good diet.

What should I be taking? How often should I be taking it? Sourcing is no issue for me I can order any drug I want right to the house. I gave up being a degenerate a few years ago but I'm pretty familiar with sourcing anything I want.


a76253  No.12147322

>>12147320

Forgot the most important part: is it possible to do these drugs without your balls shrinking? Is that just a meme?


923553  No.12147325

>>12146556

Look into Boron supplementation right away

Drink distilled water, NEVER tap water

Eat red meat often

Stop eating sugar and wheat

Less carbs, more healthy animal fat (butter and cream included)

Cholesterol is required by your body to make testosterone and your brain is 40% cholesterol

Can you see why there has been a push for (((low cholesterol diets))) for decades?

They want you weak, effeminate and dumb

Sugar and excess carbs are the problem

Meat and fat are good

Oh, and

FUCKING LIFT YOU FAGGOT!


617090  No.12147331

>>12147322

The ball shrinking thing:

• only occurs in huge "bodybuilder" doses

• nobody cares what size your balls are, girls obviously notice your cock size but the ball size is completely irrelevant


923553  No.12147333

>>12147004

>Since you want to blame it on others

tor kike tries to talk around the fact that 95% of the plastic refuse in the oceans comes from 10 rivers.

None of them are in Europe or US.

All shitskin countries.

SO YES, WE CAN BLAME IT ON OTHERS

BECAUSE THEY ARE THE ONES DOING IT


a848b4  No.12147338

>>12147322

HCG prevents balls from shrinking. Ball shrinkage is usually temporary due to the leydig cells in the testicles having no work to do while the testosterone they would have made is getting injected. You have to run post cycle therapy to get the balls back online after your cycle if you want them to get back online quickly. The idea that you can shrink your balls temporarily from screwing around with steroids is not a meme. Thinking that your balls will be permanently shrunk if you do a cycle of steroids properly is a meme.


f5e450  No.12147339

>supplements

soy boy spotted


65a319  No.12147341

File: 801b58cbb52dcd3⋯.jpg (13.05 KB, 300x200, 3:2, 801b58cbb52dcd341fd99e7cc7….jpg)

>>12146556

>(1) and done

>all those replies


a848b4  No.12147347

>>12147331

Well, you don't want to fuck up your fertility or mess up your testicles if you don't have to… read up on how to do proper "post cycle therapy" and how to run a first cycle. You shouldn't be doing this stuff before you're 28 or 30 in my personal opinion. Teenagers in particular can permanently fuck up their hormones by doing steroids.


965eb7  No.12147350

It will sterilize you if these 14 words mean anything, sure you can usually correct it, but don't consider until you've had your 2.1.


62ff29  No.12147354

Good thread lads. My own essential checklist on getting T up naturally:

1) Don't fap. If you have low T you can't spare the wasted seed. Ejaculating often when T is low skyrockets prolactin, which may further decrease T or at least decrease androgen and dopamine sensitivity, which will decrease your response to the little T you currently have.

2) Resistance train with priority to the legs and back. These are the largest muscle groups and produce the most T when trained well. Barbell training is good, but some good cheap at home alternatives are pull-ups (work up to weighted) and goblet or sandbag squats.

3) Do HIIT and/or sprinting sessions 2-3 times per week. Sheds fat mass, lowers baseline cortisol, boosts carb and fat metabolism so your body can handle eating carbs much better, so you don't have to go full ketofag.

4) Eat real whole food. Sure specific diet things can tweak various things, but most essential thing is it's not processed chemical byproduct ingredient crap. Including some eggs and beef provide good hormone building block supply.

5) Don't get drunk. Only a single drink whenever you do drink. Not drinking at all or only very rarely is also a good way to go.

6) Spend as much time as possible outdoors in the morning and evening and a little time midday vitamin D and circadian rhythm. When in doors keep the room as brightly lit as possible. 250W incandescent bulbs are good for a natural sun like wavelength spectrum (minus the UV rays)

7) Get plenty of magnesium and zinc in diet or supplement. Beef, oysters, and cooked leafy greens are good sources. If supplementing zinc don't overdo it. 15mg per day is more than enough. More is not better and can imbalance copper if intake is too high. Sublingual is often better absorbed and also good for oral health. Any magnesium supplement will do. Take with meals.

8) If six months of doing these essentials doesn't yield good results look into get some topical testosterone cream, but I'd recommend only using small amounts to see if it can kick start T production while you continue the essentials.


bbe9c9  No.12147358

For the reason in your pic. It's not ironic, or just a joke.


bbe9c9  No.12147360

File: 71d98b17bf0fa52⋯.jpg (14.95 KB, 255x255, 1:1, Bait - This is an insult -….jpg)


7231c6  No.12147364

>>12147331

>girls obviously notice your cock size but the ball size is completely irrelevant

That's fucking wrong, though.


10036c  No.12147365

>>12147144

And what's the negative impact of growth hormones in meat on humans, if any? Also, like the other guy said, you can get normal meat, too.

I made a beef fat stew three days ago and just finished it. I feel like I'll be full for a month. It was delicious, and I'm not gonna trade out for third rate shit like nuts.


10036c  No.12147380

>>12147232

>One should die proudly when it is no longer possible to live proudly.

Absolutely, fellow spartan.


4f4394  No.12147412

File: 6003b4500503348⋯.jpg (130.04 KB, 1200x800, 3:2, soy boy face nintendo swit….jpg)

>>12146555

Checked.


bd4acb  No.12147425

>>12146549

scarcity=value


9d4c10  No.12147433

>>12146549

Reported for spam.


892a24  No.12147436

>>12146556

get on TRT, I was at 280ng/dl dr wouldn't treat so I do it myself, I keep myself at 900, Im a different man, stronger, leaner, I think clearer, I have more energy, depression is gone. my wife was skeptical at first, she does my injections now most of the time. if there is a downside its sex drive is too high, I get pretty cranky if I don't get off at least once a day, its a blessing and a curse.


892a24  No.12147441

>>12147364

I've been on for over 2 years my balls are normal, no shrinking, thats a bigger issue if you are actually blasting high doses, and honestly my dick is bigger now, probably because I want it more but it gave me an extra half inch which is always nice


951eb5  No.12147453

>>12146565

need to add not jerking off daily on that infographic, jerking off resets your t to lowest base level, it gradually increases over a week and then slowly decreases, so jerking off every 1-2 weeks or so is better than every day in terms of testosterone gains


951eb5  No.12147456

>>12147453

same reason that professional athletes like boxers avoid sex/jerking for days leading up to bout


bbe9c9  No.12147460

Also, the next phase of the destruction of men is using mental health laws to force HRT onto men. Followed by forced genital removal.


0552e1  No.12147474

>>12147231

>You aren't going to go from low to top quartile by doing all these things.

Obviously not but they help a lot. >>12146565


16d338  No.12147480

>no sunlight, no vitamin D (internet/vidya/skin cancer scare/hover mums)

>staying up all night

>eating takeout

>women don't/can't cook, shittier food

>less confrontation (listen to mens cucked speech patterns and feminine mannerisms)

>porn instead of fucking real women

Might as well call it /thread.


464fdd  No.12147488

Because most retards overuse it and end up developing cancer, become impotent, have liver disease, etc etc simply cause they want to get /fit/ and anabolic steroids provides them with rapid muscle growth that he would take years to develop if he lifted while remaining natural.


dba04c  No.12147497

I often read about the combination low test and being overweight. But how about low test and being low bmi?

And how about activities that increase test. I know that chopping wood with an Axe is one of the best in that regard. You can't really cut down random trees for long, but I suspect using a dummy and a blunt Axe will have the same effect right?


9fb428  No.12147524

>>12147497

I've seen guys hit tires with sledgehammers for similar effect.


892a24  No.12147527

>>12147497

any compound lifts of movements work well, something like chopping works, squats and deadlift help. I has not overweight when my test tanked. I had a couple surgeries and the ((dr)) put me on oxycontin for a long ass time, it was very painful so I wasn't abusing them, what they don't tell you is it fucks up your test bad and even a year after being off pain pills my shit never came back, thats why I went TRT mode and stick myself


fcd647  No.12147583

File: c19823f0a41994d⋯.png (137.86 KB, 1250x1600, 25:32, tobacco.png)

do you guys think tobacco increases test? why is the government so against it?


840f05  No.12147591

>>12146702

Kek

>the newly formed /pol/ soyboy division subverts buzzfeed and other Marxist propaganda

>slowly becomes natsoc propaganda


965eb7  No.12147596

>>12147583

Gubmint is anti-stimulant as far as drugs go, downers are proliferated, and uppers are less conducive for them for anything besides wagecucking.


8f285f  No.12147631

File: c0581f6b25593e8⋯.png (24.6 KB, 1200x600, 2:1, 1514616042386.png)

If you're into your 30's and have been a soyboy for the last year or more, you owe it to your health to take at least 250mg/wk of testosterone. You can even do it as a 500mg/2cc shot every other week.

Don't plan on working out, don't change your diet, just let the hormone do it's thing and within 6 weeks you'll be in the gym for at least an hour a day or doing other healthy activities.

Yes, I'm talking to you 300lb Bepis drinking LARP-tard. That motivation you have been seeking is literally sitting in a bottle that will cost you about 10-15 bucks a month.


4d59db  No.12147637

>>12147583

Burning any plant matter results in a bunch of hydrocarbons, a lot of which are known carcinogens, not even including the preservatives and igniting chemicals in manufactured tobacco products. Most of them, when inhaled into the lungs, generally fuck shit up and end up massively increasing the risk for CV disease due to hypoxic responses (which are also involved in promoting metastasis and cancer cell proliferation after oncogenesis). The reason why tobacco generally isn't banned is because nicotine improves workplace productivity due to it's relatively unique agonistic effects. Alcohol is permitted because a huge amount of people would either actively or passively rebel against government control without it, and its production was one of the main perks of early civilization to begin with. Other drugs not so much i.e. even though psychedelics are a potential cure for chronic depression they cut into productivity, so they're banned.


50bf14  No.12147641

>>12147631

But Canada requires a prescription and since all the Doctors are pajeet they always say no and then relent for tests then still no.


4dd26d  No.12147707

File: 1b0131662937da9⋯.gif (843.7 KB, 800x786, 400:393, 1c0e4dacb4be5ae569921a86b1….gif)

File: 38cdfe0cbd2d580⋯.jpg (38.64 KB, 544x515, 544:515, AUSTRILLA.jpg)

>>12146555

Idk why, but this was fucking funny.

Trips confirm truth.


8f285f  No.12147819

>>12147641

do you even darkweb, nigger?


5629b3  No.12147867

File: 363ffe68167bf9c⋯.jpg (63.94 KB, 600x705, 40:47, 97475.jpg)

>>12147106

They're lying to you. I distinctly remember an old graph (from couple of decades ago) showing 800 to be the average. Basically, what's considered "normal" now is a lie designed to normalise the neutering. You think you're fine but your grand-dad was 30-50% (or whatever) more manly at that age.


fe96ff  No.12147901

>>12147144

No they are not. Also, avocados and peanuts are both full of PUFA which are the actual cause of "metabolic disorder" and "type 2 diabetes" as well as falling T levels, osteoporosis, Alzheimer's, etc. Eat meat, dairy and fruit. The only non-toxic plant sources of fat are olive oil and coconut oil. Use them and/or lard, butter, tallow, etc. That solves the entire problem.

>>12147867

People need to be aware of this in all kinds of things, not just test levels. They keep changing "normal" to correspond with the new average.


9e0182  No.12147979

>>12147474

They didn't help me one bit.

>>12147320

First get bloodwork. T, free T, estrodiol (not estrogen or oestrogen). Then if you are low, you need to check FSH and LH. If those are low, you have what's called "secondary hypogonadism". It means your balls are functional, but your pituitary isn't calling for T. Then you need to find out why. Get prolactin tested to see if you have a pituitary tumor. If prolactin is fine, you have the option of going on clomid / nolvadex. Clomid will trick your pituitary into thinking there's no estradiol in your system, and the pituitary will then call for more T. (LH/FSH -> T -> estradiol -> pituitary -> LH/FSH) This option will keep your balls functioning, making T and keep you fertile.

If your LH/FSH is high, that means your pituitary is calling for more T, but your balls are incapable. Could be physical causes, restricted testicles, blood clot in testicles (forget technical term) and other things. Most of those require minor surgery. Otherwise, you get to go on T injections. You balls will shrink, not a problem unless you want kids. If you do want kids, you should also be on HCG, but it's expensive. You also might need to control your estradiol via arimidex. Don't go on creams, pills, gels, whatever. The needle works great and once you get over being a pussy about needles.

It's a very involved system and diagnosis requires someone to actually understand the HPTA (search it). Most doctors don't understand it all, or care to. Your best bet is to start reading up on it.

My dick hasn't shrunk on T, it actually appears bigger. It hangs loose instead of being shrunken. No change in erect size.

>What should I be taking? How often should I be taking it?

No easy answer to that without bloodwork.

>>12147322

Not a meme, they will shrink from just TRT doses. Really, I don't miss them much. I don't accidentally crush my balls anymore. Shrinkage is really only 25-40%.


9e0182  No.12147997

>>12147979

>pills

meant to say pellets


f330c7  No.12148035

>>12148006

Well that formatted weirdly with [code]

>>12147867

Normal level Vitamin D3 per day has also been lowered extremely, in my country the suggested amount used to be 10x what it is today… and we get little sunlight.


f330c7  No.12148066

>>12147583

No, its poison. Fun fact: the tobacco industry was started by jewry.

It will come to many people as new knowledge that the liquor business of the world has been in
the hands of Jews. In the United States the liquor business was almost exclusively in the hands of jews
for 25 years previous to Prohibition, during the period, in fact, when the liquor trade was giving point
and confirmation to Prohibition arguments. This knowledge has an important bearing on the
interpretation of our times.
In the volume, "The Conquering jew," published by Funk & Wagnalls Company in 1916, John Foster Fraser writes:
"The jews are masters of the whisky trade in the United States. Eighty percent of the
members of the National Liquor Dealers' Association are jews. It has been shown that 60 per
cent of the business of distilling and wholesale trade in whisky is in the hands of the jews.
As middlemen they control the wine product of California. jews visit the tobacco-growing
States and buy up nearly all the leaf tobacco, so that the great tobacco companies have to buy
the raw product from them. The jews have a grip on the cigar trade. The American Tobacco
Company manufactures about 15 per cent of the cigars smoked in the United States. The jews provide the rest."
It was also true in Russia, Poland, Rumania. The jewish Encyclopedia states that "The
Establishment of the government liquor monopoly (in Russia in 1896) deprived thousands of jewish
families of a livelihood." They controlled the liquor traffic, the vodka business which undermined
Russia. The government made the liquor business a national monopoly in order to abolish it, which was
done. Liquor in Russia was jewish, as the Encyclopedia testifies. Anyone reading carefully the article on
Russia, especially pages 527 and 559 in the jewish Encyclopedia, will be in no doubt as to the fact. In
Rumania the whole "jewish Question" was the liquor question. The land of the peasants came into
control of the liquor sellers, and the business of handling liquors was a strict jewish monopoly for years.
In Poland the same was true. It is not surprising, therefore, that in the United States whisky also became jewish.

Associated with Columbus in the voyage were at least five jews: Luis de Torres, interpreter;
Marco, the surgeon; Bernal, the physician; Alonzo de la Calle, and Gabriel Sanchez. Luis de Torres was the first man ashore,
the first to discover the use of tobacco; he settled in Cuba and may be said to be the father of
jewish control of the tobacco business as it exists today.
https'':''//my.mixtape.moe/mcqhpt.pdf


965eb7  No.12148088

>>12148006

>slavers are involved in agricultural slavery

This need not be suspect.


000000  No.12148107

>>12147459

>that caused the governor to correct the president's claims.

>no relationship between a colony and the federal government can ever be called ‘successful’ bc muh freedoms"

>"this was the worst natural disaster in our modern history…"

So he didn't correct the President's claims at all but is said to have done so.

Only private citizens should be able to lie. In the Fourth, companies and collectives, especially those who publish public information, will be shut down for knowingly telling lies.

bc jews locked >>12147459


bbe9c9  No.12148196

>>12147583

Not arguing anything as I haven't read shit yet;

what about the coughing and smoker's lung though?

The black "tar" build up?


08b32f  No.12148200

>>12147583

>tobacco

>4,000+ chemicals added to the average cigarette to increase addictiveness

>your cancer is a side-effect of their profits

don't fool yourself into thinking smokes will be helpful except in limited cases (cigars are an analgesic for certain throat conditions, but usually not)

you're basically breathing concentrated pollution, anon. you shouldn't ever smoke (((cigarettes)))

t.medfag


5629b3  No.12148226

>>12147979

>Shrinkage is really only 25-40%.

Only! Kek!

The problem is that once you start supplementing, your body adapts to it with shrinkage and lower natural T production. It's not really a visual problem but a production problem. You're doomed to buy this shit (probably in increasing doses) for the rest of your life or fall back to production levels much worse than what you started with. I firmly believe that supplementing, after a while, suppresses testicles to a point where they'll never recover previous functionality 100% (whatever it was at the beginning).

That's why anons here should exhaust every single natural option before choosing this route. IMO.


000000  No.12148420

High T causes dha build up in the scalp and cause alopecia (baldness).

How to prevent and reverse this ?


6e2ee7  No.12148802

File: aee666cec3368eb⋯.jpg (84 KB, 1280x720, 16:9, onepunchman.jpg)

>>12148226

>only 25-40%

Well, some people act like your testicles become like a pea. That isn't true. They are still there.

>You're doomed to buy this shit for the rest of your life

Yes, except I don't feel doomed. I feel great.

>probably in increasing doses

Nope. Injecting any theraputic dose of T shuts you down 100% Unless you are truly large, you will never go over 200mg/wk for life for TRT.

>should exhaust every single natural option before choosing this route

We agree, except I don't think that "natural" routes really do much of anything. There are bullshit clickbait bloggers who say they do, but they are clickbait bloggers. Doing all that "natural" shit didn't do squat for me and I wasted precious years when I could have been feeling great instead.

>>12148420

Go warrior monk mode. Pic related.


bbe9c9  No.12148821

>>12148420

Goy we can start you on a treatment of HRT to help with that.


bbe9c9  No.12148825

>>12148802

>Go warrior monk mode. Pic related.

Some people look weird bald. I'm one, maybe he is too. Like that guy on the jailfu chart.


0cb690  No.12148988

File: 4fb46fa321069ad⋯.jpg (Spoiler Image, 2.13 MB, 2560x1440, 16:9, horsepill.jpg)

>>12147231

that's not my stash


5629b3  No.12148989

>>12148802

>Yes, except I don't feel doomed. I feel great.

No doubt, and this might have been the best, or even only, option for you. That said, anons should be aware that it's a life-changing, and half-irreversible, decision.

And you better buy a stash that'll last for the rest of your life. If shit hits the fan the supply will disappear and you don't want to end up with a T-count of a little girl in that environment. Just saying.


0cb690  No.12149079

File: b08c839ae1ffcca⋯.jpg (91.22 KB, 500x395, 100:79, hrossed.jpg)

>>12148226

taking replacement levels of test for a few years isn't going to end your life. you can completely go back to normal if you follow procedure and ease yourself down

the point is you'll never, ever fucking want to go back ever again

>>12148989

calm down, also see >>12148988


c458b8  No.12149108

>>12147005

yeah we do, once we hit menopause.

T is gold for keeping active


5629b3  No.12149333

>>12149079

>taking replacement levels of test for a few years isn't going to end your life. you can completely go back to normal if you follow procedure and ease yourself down

Completely? I really, really doubt it. Maybe if you only do it for a couple of months but the body has this tendency to create chronic adjustments when exposed to long-term influences ("dry drunk" effect, for example). Also, "replacement levels" must increase when balls shrink and natural production decreases - right?

But I'm open minded so feel free to post some kind of data to support your theory.


7fe5d1  No.12149533

but my stepdad told me a real man who is secure in his masculinity doesnt need testosterone. or muscles. or testicles. he told me he's secure enough in his masculinity to let my mom peg him, and to let her get fucked by my real dad whenever he has to work late.


2cb3bd  No.12150767

>>12149333

You can come back. But if you were low T to begin with, you will be low T when you come off.

>"dry drunk" effect, for example

That's the result of a physical addiction. Search "naltrexone" and "the sinclair method". There is a cure.

>Also, "replacement levels" must increase when balls shrink and natural production decreases - right?

No. Like I said earlier, you inject T, your production goes to ZERO. Your system is very responsive, and if there's enough T in your system, you will produce NONE. The size of your balls is irrelevant. There is a feedback loop (search hpta) like a complicated thermostat, and if the body sees T there, you naturally produce none, not some, not decreasing levels, zero. Can you come back afterwards? Some do, some don't. But why, if you were low, would you want to go back to your shitty levels?

>>12149079

>the point is you'll never, ever fucking want to go back ever again

This anon knows.

>>12148989

>And you better buy a stash that'll last for the rest of your life.

The thought had crossed my mind. Unfortunately getting caught with that amount would put me in jail for distribution for a very long time.


5629b3  No.12150837

>>12150767

>you inject T, your production goes to ZERO

Seriously? Jebus! I didn't know, or even expect that. I'm gonna have to research and double-check that claim. So, how much do you inject weekly to stay in the 800-1000 range?

>Can you come back afterwards? Some do, some don't.

Thanks for your honesty. At least you're not hand-waving it like those previous anons.


2cb3bd  No.12150921

>>12150837

>So, how much do you inject weekly to stay in the 800-1000 range?

I'm about 160mg/week.

>At least you're not hand-waving it like those previous anons.

The truth is, if you are low, and you inject, you will not want to come off. I feel better now than I ever have before. I just can't stand the bullshit increase your production naturally meme. You could increase it a small amount maybe (I couldn't) but it wouldn't make much of a difference in your life. Injecting T is life changing.


5629b3  No.12150952

File: 12dca84e9779c06⋯.jpg (97.73 KB, 850x960, 85:96, boss.jpg)

>>12150921

Thanks for the info. I'm not low now (didn't measure but I have none of the symptoms) but you never know and the topic is important for our race and our ability to get angry and clean up the trash.


4bfbc8  No.12151602

Yo mod, wtf is this thread bumplocked? I don't see any other thread on testosterone. This is a great and informative thread and lots of anons are clearly not informed enough on this topic

>>12150767

Do you buy yours online or in person? Have you ever tried or considered HCG to maintain your regular test production? What ester do you use?

Also a bit useless now, but if testosterone ever did get regulated so bad that it's impossible to get, it can be somewhat simply synthesized from DHEA. Currently it's probably more expensive to create than just to buy and not worth the hassle, but just something to keep in mind and an interesting fact. And none of the precursors are illegal, although can be hard to get.


047730  No.12151843

>>12150952

Test doesn't make you angry. Estrogen does. Roid rage comes from idiots taking too must T and not controlling the aromitization to estrogen. Yes, another wrinkle is that T turns into estrogen and the more T you take, the more it converts into estrogen and thus the womanly rage.

T will make you calm, logical and decisive. Not controlling your estrogen will turn you into a whiny angry bitch with muscles.

>>12151602

I have a script, I get mine at the pharmacy. I don't really have any reason to be on HCG, I have three kids and not having any more.

It has been my experience with chemistry that the synthesis of chemicals isn't hard, the problem is cleaning up the result and taking out the impurites, leftover chemicals that takes a lot of equipment and skill.


138c41  No.12152019

>>12151602

>And none of the precursors are illegal, although can be hard to get.

From a quickie search, purification is a bit of an issue. Some of the precursors and equipment for esterification (turning T into T cyp or T eth) are basically what the DEA watches because of meth labs. T is cheap to import if you are going black market, though you are rolling the dice on chinese T.


f11f61  No.12154058

>>12147004

Kill yourself shitskin, stop dumping your trash in rivers.


66c837  No.12155105

>>12150921

>Injecting T is life changing.

So let's say something terrible happens in a year or so, and shit hits the fan. The JIT shipping scheme, which gets everything where it needs to be "just in time," fails. Global shenanigans ensue and no nation trusts another with anything. What's your strategy when you run out of testosterone to inject? I've seen a few rather large collections in this thread, but no ideas for what you do with your life when your supply runs out.

Not blackpilling here, I'm just curious what the plan is if the worst happens.


fcd647  No.12156218

>>12147596

why isnt coffee treated the same as tobacco then? why dont they make up claims that it causes cancer?

>>12148066

>jews like making money

so what? this post also mentions alcohol and yet that substance is not nearly as stigmatized. also, if jews were making so much money only a handful of decades ago off of tobacco then why on earth would they give that up? what is it about tobacco that causes jews to not want to use it to make money?

>but it's poison

provide an argument nigger. every single thing i try to read on this always starts off with, "we all know tobacco is really bad, but did you know that it's also really REALLY bad?"

>>12147637

>carcinogens

why dont you address directly the image i included?

>muh added chemicals

>implying this cant be opted out of

>>12148200

what does any of this have to do with anything?

>muh added chemicals

>muh cancer

did you read the image i attatched to my post?

t.non-retard


1f237a  No.12168136

>>12147037

no fap, do it, cut out the trash food, start lifting, expose yourself to more sun and actually communicate with people.


3dcd7d  No.12179488

>>12156218

>why isnt coffee treated the same as tobacco then? why dont they make up claims that it causes cancer?

see also: california




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