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File: 1446197147170-0.jpg (23.99 KB, 288x346, 144:173, anarchism.jpg)

File: 1446197147173-1.png (4.28 MB, 1518x1923, 506:641, Bakunin.png)

 No.4517

So what are your thoughts on anarchism?

Pro or against?

Is it still relevant or is it too unfeasible to be taken seriously in this current-day society?

General anarchy discussion

 No.4522

Unfeasible at a large scale, I think.

For example, if there were no regulations or governance on trade, how will the cases of fraud, false advertising, and the like be handled?

There seems to be many different ideals within anarchy, so I apologize if I'm not adequately responding to the thread.


 No.4524

YouTube embed. Click thumbnail to play.

This realty neat music video depicts what would happen in an anarchist society after 130 years of rule, if we elected them today:


 No.4548

File: 1446209249216.png (276.83 KB, 600x596, 150:149, 1442642710741.png)

>sudden anarchy

>world becomes chaotic

>NWO takes over

>"Ordo Ab Chao"

>no longer anarchy

This political ideology doesn't make any sense. Its like evolution; from nothing--everything! From chaos, order! From war, peace! War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength...

Good is evil...

Ye shall be as godsss...


 No.4554

Against, with the ability of people to organize and create consensus today a vacuum of power will be filled.

It may work for a time, but I don't see it as anything lasting. There aren't any anarchy based governments around today. Political machines always take over where there is opportunity.


 No.4564

Anarchy is hardly anything more than a transitory period.

While I understand that all governments are inherently evil, it is a necessary evil.

So the best you can really hope for is to have a government that designed in such a way that it it highly constrained.


 No.4565

>Muh gubment

Anything government can do, a competitive market can do better.

Once we reach space colonization, you can bet your ass that people will be living under anarchy and will do so just fine.


 No.4571

Any system that relies on the "good will" of other people is doomed to failure


 No.4573

>>4517

If by anarchy you mean return to the natural human clan-based hierarchy, then yeah, sure. Because that's what you get if you abolish formal authorities, and that's how humans have always organized.

Anything else, especially the shit I far too often hear self-proclaimed anarchists blabber about how we'll be individually free, is just not going to happen.


 No.4575

>>4573

And even then in humans "natural" state there is still a hierarchy of sorts.

Chieftains still existed in non-agrarian societies.


 No.4647

File: 1446249461485.jpg (38.16 KB, 350x350, 1:1, 1446177535859.jpg)

syndicalists are violent faggots and I'm glad they don't post in /liberty/


 No.4665

Only feasible amongst highly intelligent individuals who genuinely believe in the same ideals and goals.

Once you factor in intelligent people who wish to exploit others, it all depends into chaos.


 No.4666

>>4665

descends.


 No.4676

File: 1446259864245.jpg (29.28 KB, 417x415, 417:415, anarchism.jpg)

>So what are your thoughts on anarchism?

I like the Voluntarist, Agorist, Mutualist, Christian, Pacifist, and Transhumanist subdivisions. So most of the divisions that recognize individual autonomy and private property.

>Pro or against?

I'm pro anything that gives more power to individuals and less to government and the attached corporations owned by them.

>Is it still relevant or is it too unfeasible to be taken seriously in this current-day society?

The Libertarian party is starting to get to a point where they're a spoiler vote in local elections (E.G. they have more votes than the difference between Dem and Pub votes). Extremists make it so that the window moves more in your direction. You tell me.

We are moving the system closer and closer to freedom every day. Likewise, once we master space colonization, which is completely possible with our current technology, you'll start to see anarchist movements take off (no pun intended) to asteroids and similar large space structures that could house mining operations in our solar system.


 No.4678

File: 1446260147985.gif (1.51 MB, 1067x720, 1067:720, 1424854192119-0.gif)

>>4564

>it is a necessary evil.


 No.4679

File: 1446260789938-0.jpg (87.34 KB, 500x625, 4:5, government_warning.jpg)

File: 1446260789939-1.jpg (50.99 KB, 682x449, 682:449, collectivism.jpg)

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File: 1446260789941-3.png (50.02 KB, 398x476, 199:238, 11745325_1054865684541100_….png)

File: 1446260789948-4.png (22.1 KB, 678x441, 226:147, memes_of_production.png)

>>4666

>Wasting satanic trips on a typo

Faggot.

>>4665

>Only feasible amongst highly intelligent individuals who genuinely believe in the same ideals and goals.

That's the thing. When you actually expose people to the fact that they're being ruled over by a small gang that doesn't even account for 1% of the population (E.G. politicians and the elite capable of bribing said politicians), it becomes clear that they can accomplish everything without some overarching government via natural hierarchy.

>Once you factor in intelligent people who wish to exploit others

Pic related. The ones who wish to exploit others would have to be violent in the first place. The thing people don't realize is that a lot of people would die under anarchy for the sole purpose that it doesn't try to sustain idiots (idiots to be defined as those who are too stupid AND lazy. You can be one or the other and get by just fine in an anarchist system).

I'm 95% sure that if you started an actual anarchist "country/region" where people could do their own thing, it would become so popular after a few years (with the local population beating the shit out of niggers who think anarchy=chaos/no rules- it just means no rulers) that other places would begin to demand it.


 No.4680

File: 1446260849268.png (57.2 KB, 1000x600, 5:3, 1000px-RPAU_flag.svg.png)

So what do you guys think about Free Territory?

Could have it continued to last had Lenin not fugged everything up?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Territory

Post last edited at

 No.4683

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File: 1446261566156-1.jpg (114.27 KB, 500x485, 100:97, black_market.jpg)

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>>4680

IMO without reading too much more into it atm, I'd say Free Territory is along the same lines as "Special Economic Zones" to various regions that claim to hate Capitalism such as China.

E.G. It couldn't have succeeded, because it existed with permission from the government rather than of its own volition.

That being said, it was breddy gud. It couldn't have lasted because like Special Economic Zones, it gives people a taste of what true freedom could feel like, which makes them dissent from the party line.

The moment they became influential/the people began to realize how nice it was in Makhnovia was the moment the commies had to attack them. As an apparatus of the state, it wasn't allowed openly show that the state was pointless (as it was doing), and thus it was a threat to those in power.


 No.4686

File: 1446262622506.jpg (66.99 KB, 736x490, 368:245, not the same thing.jpg)

>>4683

That first image seemed a little inaccurate, so I fixed it up for you


 No.4691

>>4564

>necessary evil

wow, thats a very asinine statement if i ever heard one. are you implying that evil is necessary?

>>4571

>Any system that relies on the "good will" of other people is doomed to failure

elaborate pls. we are indoctrinated to be self centered ass-hats tbh, kid

>>4686

lel


 No.4694

File: 1446263634039-0.png (24.17 KB, 529x342, 529:342, 1428465802202.png)

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File: 1446263634040-4.jpg (65.79 KB, 720x720, 1:1, wac.jpg)

>>4686

Kek.

>>4679

Derp, meant to link the WAC pic in pics related. Not sure how that happened.


 No.5749

only the weak & feeble-men needs the state & strong leaders


 No.5770

File: 1446931019437.webm (2.88 MB, 320x426, 160:213, 1445806968880.webm)

Enjoy your congo and yemen, because when there's nobody to enforce the law, you get webm related!

>b b but we'll band together to form a law enforcement!

That is, by definition, GOVERNMENT


 No.5771

>>4517

>So what are your thoughts on anarchism?

It's a childish fantasy. The average person is far too stupid, egoistic, irrational, cowardly, gullible and shortsighted for it having any chance of working.


 No.7133

It's the logical conclusion in the evolution of human organizations.


 No.7135

>>4517

I think it's incoherent. It's more an attempt to make state hierarchy more fluid and democratic than actually getting rid of the state. Or at least the left wing original one is. You've got a load of communes ganging together in a confederation and electing delegates that elect delegates, and these are supposedly "instantly" re-callable, but that's all depending on the democratic consensus below them. It's in fact merely a state based off of direct (consensus) democracy.

Classic Anarchy: Direct Democratic State Socialism

Now, Ancap, what's that? Well, you have a load of private property based claims that give exclusive control with no mediation above them, and polycentric law. Polycentric law would logically mean clashing laws, or clashing enforcers of different variations on the NAP. This makes Ancap essentially a secessionist ideology based on splitting up the state into micro-monarchies or tribes depending on the ownership scheme of the property. This would wind back the European clock to the days of chieftains battling across various tribes. Supposedly, the NAP would stop this and make it peaceful, but people would really just fight over how far the NAP extends and different interpretations of it, whether enclosure was enough to claim property, or whether you had to mix your labor, or not.

Ancap: Neo-Tribalism.

Now, what about the disadvantages of these ideologies?

For Classical Anarchy: Consensus is slow and instant recall would gum the system up, and so it would be out competed by representative democratic systems, and even dictatorships. With the ideological element running against efficiency, there may be a lot of purges before the system becomes a dictatorship, or a system led by a labor aristocracy. The socialism itself would have to give way to exploitation so that the capital capacity of the society could actually be expanded, meaning that ultimately it would just transition to a capitalist representative democracy, but possibly not before delving into Stalinist madness.

For Ancap: Economies of scale mean that larger tribes (up to the point diseconomies of scale kick in) can win more physical fights, and have more financial resources with which to pay protection agencies and enforce their version of the NAP. There would eventually arise an empire with lots of tribute states outside it, and as generations go on, rents would seem more like taxes, and the oligopoly power would mean that the market wouldn't present enough choice to make voting with your wallet or feet possible. People would start calling for representation. The system would evolve into an empire, based off of shareholder rights, which would make it a lot like early democracy which had land ownership based franchise. Eventually, franchise would be expanded due to populist pressure and possibly revolt, leading us back to the representative capitalist system we are in now.

So, before rejecting a system for a radical hypothetical new alternative, try to learn why we have the system we do now.


 No.7136

>>7135

In the end, the only viable form of anarchism is one that isn't based on societal organization at all, but on individuals being able to transcend the need for society through a materialist process.

If for example, it's 2250, and transhumanism has progressed enough so that each human is hyper-capable individually, can survive in a vacuum, "eat" almost anything that can through a chemical process provide energy, and even directly live off electricity provided by any means, chemical, solar, nuclear, or otherwise...

THEN

AND

ONLY

THEN

Will Anarchism be possible. Since, with such souped up capacity, each "human" is functionally rugged enough for rugged individualism. At that point, it is possible for humans to spread out across space (the light barrier diminishing the possibility of governance) without the need to band together just for the most basic level of survival full stop.

There will certainly still be communities, but these will not be based off of necessity for survival against the elements, and therefore will not bear any relation to the dependency based societies of old. Such communities will be fluid and able to be disbanded at will with ease.

Society as a fixed element of the human condition must be destroyed in order for the state to go with it, because the state is only the answer to the coordination problems created by the involuntary nature of society, based as it is on Hobbesian concerns.

The state then, is a technological problem, and the political ideology that can facilitate the use of future technology for that purpose, is; Techno-Decentralism.

"He who is unable to live in society, or who has no need because he is sufficient for himself, must be either a beast or a god." ~t.Aristotle

We have to become Gods! But society and therefore statism will reign for the next few hundred years. Sorry.


 No.7187

File: 1454933492507.gif (49.86 KB, 200x200, 1:1, #stylin'.gif)

>MFW Anarchy will never work

No matter how much white middle class will stamp their little feet and scream for it.


 No.7252

File: 1455026043127.png (486.86 KB, 700x394, 350:197, 1453968510169.png)

Largely misunderstood and misrepresented. Stupid people who don't read books make the same generic, false, pretty much meme arguments against it too often.

>it will never work

It has. It actually has, but then they died because realm divide happened and they weren't ready.

>>4522

There'd likely be no false advertising because there'd be no reason to falsely advertise and barely any reason to advertise within a socialist system. There'd be no money.


 No.7255

File: 1455027233291.png (1.22 MB, 1724x1633, 1724:1633, idpoltrash.png)

>>4548

>doesn't make any sense

To you, because what leftist books have you actually read nigger? How are you supposed to understand something without reading about it.

And I don't just mean about it, like a third party perspective on anarchism, you wouldn't learn math from an art teacher, you should try to understand anarchy by reading their books. The classic shit first, if only.

Then, only after you've read the actual theory should you read the criticisms.

>>4571

How does it rely on the good will of other people? We're intending to remove the structures of power that give people the authority to commit atrocities, I'd say letting people have those positions is relying more on the good will of other people

>>4647

Private property is violent, I stopped being an ancap after I realized that, since that there NAP permits self defense, and the state and capitalism are aggressors against the global proletariat which I am a part of, it's only reasonable to act in self defense against an exploitative, armed entity.

>>5770

>basic misunderstanding of horizontal organization, what anarchists are for and against, and what a government is

wew m8e


 No.7268

>>7255

Is Marx's mouth supposed to be open, or is that a black mustache?


 No.7270

>>7268

You know, I never noticed and nobody ever pointed it out but I'm pretty sure it's a black mustache.


 No.7279

>>7255

Anarchism is just a childish fantasy used by selfish, immature people to justify their antisocial behaviour.


 No.7282

>>7279

>antisocial

I never understood this generic meme argument, if I said anarchist aren't anti-social because most are socialists that would be just as valid and fucking stupid as your post.


 No.7286

>>7282

Anarchists are antisocial. If you deny this, you're basically like a feminist who denies that feminists hate men.


 No.7290

>>7286

We're not, and it's stupid to make such a broad provably false claim, and only first world liberal feminists hate men.


 No.7292

>>7279

>>7286

>Anarchists are anti-social.

That makes no sense. Anarchists want to destroy bureaucratic mechanical institutions for the sake of horizontal organic ones.

That's by definition more social. It's like comparing direct Greek democracy to today's democracy.


 No.7297

>>7292

Kronstadt forgiven.


 No.7328

>>4694

That last one disregards the fact the only reason he has to buy from him is to make him do nothing


 No.7335

>>7279

Guilty as charged, but what's wrong with being antisocial? Robots are going to do everything anyway, in fifty years


 No.7536

File: 1455728312192.png (226.84 KB, 2000x2000, 1:1, anarchy.png)

>>4517

They are three types of Anarchists.

1. The punk rock" get pissed destroy" morons.

2. The idealist:" let's all live in peace and harmony, be responsible for each other and share everything."

3. The sophist who keeps all the institutions of government but calls them something else. "We'll replace the fascist cops who enforce the law with citizen safety patrols who will enforce the law. We'll eliminate money and replace it with value tokens that will be exchanged for goods and services."


 No.7537

a pipe dream that will result in neo-feudalism. we need just enough government to prevent tyranny from non-governmental entities.


 No.7542

File: 1455736762842.jpg (59.9 KB, 446x439, 446:439, 140495861682705.jpg)

>>4517

Anarchist reporting in.

If you live your life being wary of laws you have already failed to adhere to being free.

All major changes that aren't eviscerated democracy will require fighting at some point in the future and fighting an infowar at all times in the present.

Take of it what you will, or drown into complacency.


 No.7602

>>7252

>no need for money = no need for false advertisement

>no need to advertise

how do you know what you are getting if you don't receive an advertisement somewhere?

What about people who value possessing more private property despite living in "the wrong" nation?




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