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File: 1446948524762.png (394.73 KB, 653x511, 653:511, 1412959046244.png)

c5ed4e No.5783

Pic unrelated

Minimum wage has always been a conundrum. Without it, workers bid their labor too low and end up living in squalor. With it, businesses can't afford to employ as many people, and the price of products is increased such that minimum wage is no longer a living wage.

These problems arise because the minimum wage is a flat wage. For smaller businesses, this creates a financially prohibitive wall to job creation and ability to compete. If however the minimum wage for a given company was based on a percentage of its income. Smaller companies could afford to create jobs, and larger companies would be able to pay even lowly workers a living wage. The system automatically corrects for inflation, and workers would be encouraged to work harder as support of their company would yield an immediate raise in their own income.

Obviously, systems would have to be in place to prevent businesses from under-reporting their income, but I believe this would solve the problems inherent in a minimum wage.

What would it take to implement such a practice?

c0b789 No.5797

>>5783

Only people who have not been educated in economics are concerned about raising the minimum wage. The minimum wage is only raised to give incentive to automate. If a wealth transfer from corporations to the lower class is desired then it is better to remove the incentives to fire workers by taxing the corporation whether they fire the worker or not. This way you would not raise unemployment as much. Then of course you would transfer that wealth from those corporate taxes to the people via handouts. Those workers who had their jobs saved are now richer than they would have been if you raised the minimum wage. This means a smaller wealth transfer is required for them to meet the same desired minimum standard of living. This means you can raise the minimum standard of living, or pocket the money to pay down debt, fund public works, or do anything you'd like all at no cost to anyone. This is the beauty of good economic policy.

On the other hand, saying you want to raise the minimum wage is a nice sound byte which is sure to reel in the votes. That's why you hear it so much from politicians. You won't hear it from any economists though, Republican or Democrat.


75c3f5 No.5800

>>5797

Based explanation, but how do I know if you're right?

I listened to this NPR show recently called Intelligence Squared. It's an Oxford style debate show, where two teams face off on topics ranging from healthcare reform to the Iran deal. They poll the audience before and after the debate, and whichever team gets the biggest % gain in their favor wins. Anyways, they had one recently on the minimum wage, and both sides could make an ironclad case for their positions. They both trotted out facts, statistics and studies galore that seemed forceful and legit. It seemed that neither side could be invalidated. Ultimately the side that was pro-minimum wage won, naturally (The actual debate was titled "Should the minimum wage be abolished?").

It's just a real fuckity subject, like all areas of economics. Someone can come in and make a fucking great case for or against one theory, and it could be complete bullshit and no one would be the wiser. If you aren't already anchored to this or that ideology you are pretty much fucked if you want to get to the bottom of shit.

I personally feel that corporate greed and avarice knows no bounds, and that the minimum wage is a necessary stalwart against the complete obliteration of the working class and individualism. The libertarian angle makes a lot of sense if you have a working brain, but I don't think the world is as efficient as libertarians make it out to be. You need some form of government/oversight to enforce basic standards, be it infrastructure or safeguards against massive corporate malfeasance on an industrial scale.


e3ca05 No.5803

>>5783

Don't raise the minimum wage. Just kick the Jews out. Problem solved.


9ae7ef No.5813

>>5803

wow. I never realized it was so simple. Thank you for you insight anon. Thank you.


0922dc No.5823

>>5797

> by taxing the corporation whether they fire the worker or not

By taxing them what?


3e42b8 No.5828

>>5783

> If however the minimum wage for a given company was based on a percentage of its income.

I cant imagine a single scenario where this would work


bf49cc No.5870

File: 1447032612449.png (162.33 KB, 418x296, 209:148, unintended.png)

>>5800

A raise in the minimum wage is not an efficient means to transfer wealth from the rich to the poor. That doesn't mean it couldn't be helpful at all. Imagine doing nothing as driving a Hummer, raising the minimum wage as driving a Toyota Corolla, and transferring wealth through taxes and handouts as driving a Prius. Maybe you're a libertarian and you believe that the Hummer and Corolla should actually be switched. That's likely what the debate you watched was about. Nobody who follows any of the main schools of economics believes that the Prius and the Corolla should be switched (that minimum wage is an efficient means of wealth transfer). Not Republican (Classical School), not Democrat (Keynesian School), or even Libertarian (Austrian School). No economist that falls into 99% of American politics believes minimum wages are a good way to transfer wealth.

>muh corporate greed

I'm not a libertarian. The argument I'm making isn't about whether the government should step in and transfer wealth from the rich to the poor. My argument is that if you choose to make that wealth transfer, raising the minimum wage is is not an efficient way to do it. I can't stress this enough, people always try to argue against some strawman saying corporations shouldn't pay more. Sure, maybe they should, maybe they shouldn't, but supposing they should the natural question is what's the best way to make them pay more? Well it's not raising the minimum wage.

Why? I'll give an example. Suppose you have a worker who gets paid 8$ an hour, but earns his company 12$ an hour. Let's pretend we all agree that people should have a standard of living equivalent to what a $15/hr worker will earn. Again, I'm not debating whether that standard should be based off of $15/hr, but only how to complete the wealth transfer. This is our new minimum standard of living.

Well if you raise the minimum wage to 15$ an hour then the company has two options. They can either fire the worker, and they will break even, or they can keep the worker and lose 3$/hour. The raise in minimum wage just gave the corporation an incentive to fire the worker. The corporation will fire the worker and the government will be on the hook to provide this person the entire $15/hr equivalent standard of living. That money has to come from somewhere so the government will have to tax someone whatever it costs to provide the full $15/hr minimum standard of living.

Now suppose that instead of raising the minimum wage, you raise corporate taxes the equivalent of what it would cost to pay a worker a $10/hr standard of living. Now the worker is still being paid $8 an hour by the corporation, and he's still earning the corporation $12/hr. The corporation will not fire that person because he's still profitable. Now here's the magic, the government can tax the corporation the equivalent of $10/hr and give it as a handout to the worker who's making $8/hr. Now instead of the government spending $15/hr to give a worker a $15/hr standard of living, the government now only has to spend $10/hr to give that worker an $18 standard of living. The government was able to spend less to provide a better quality of life. Where did that extra money come from? The worker created it while doing his job instead of loafing around at home doing nothing. He was able to create it because you didn't kill his job.

Another way to think of it is that raising the minimum wage allows for a what is practically the same as a corporate tax loophole. But in order to take advantage of this tax loophole a corporation needs to fire someone. You're losing tax money to subsidize something you don't want to happen. That's bad economic policy. As I said earlier, the purpose of raising the minimum wage is to give incentive for corporations to invest in automation.


0922dc No.5871

>>5870

>Now here's the magic, the government can tax the corporation the equivalent of $10/hr and give it as a handout to the worker who's making $8/hr

You're talking about Guaranteed Minimum Income. The problems with that

1) Transfer Pricing, this is how corporations pay close to zero and how General Electric hasn't paid any taxes in 5 years. This is technically illegal but we don't have the infrastructure to prosecute or track it well enough according to an IRS agent I know.

2) Interest-Levied-Income, if you take assets and immediately put them up as collateral for a loan you pay no taxes on it. Say you take in a stock of a million dollars in oil, you give that to a bank for an $800,000 loan and they give you an interest rate of 0.75, that interest is effectively your annual tax rate. There is no way around this law that doesn't hurt all people who take out loans, the only way to get rid of it is to abolish interest (not gunna fucking happen unless all Jews die tomorrow)


c5ed4e No.5874

>>5828

It would certainly be better for small businesses. Suppose a hot dog vendor or some other small businessman wants to grow his business by hiring a new employee. Under a flat minimum wage, he might have to pay the worker more than his labor would bring in. Now the employer is stuck unable to grow his business and his potential employee remains unemployed. With a percentage-based minimum wage, he will be able to make a profit off of his employee's labor (assuming the percentage is reasonable for a business of his size). Likewise, the worker is not exploited for his labor, as his pay goes up along with the business's profit. While he will likely earn less than under a flat minimum wage, he will now have nonzero buying power. Such a system would benefit kids looking to gain experience, the retired looking for easy work, and the unskilled unemplyed, who would otherwise be begging or burdening welfare.


bf49cc No.5878

>>5871

There are problems with being able to tax corporations right now, but that's by the design of our corrupt political process.

>you take assets

You could tax the acquisition of assets

>take assets and immediately put them up

You could outlaw this, or tax it

>put them up as collateral

You could tax collateral before it is allowed to be used for loans

>for a loan

You could outlaw corporations from taking out loans, or tax these loans

You could also just circumvent the whole process with the corporation itself and tax the shareholders/executives at a higher rate. It's ridiculous to suggest we don't have the capabilities to raise taxes on corporations.


0922dc No.5885

>>5878

>You could tax collateral before it is allowed to be used for loans

Hahaha I've never heard a more jewish thing in my life! How can you tax something that is not money and its value is up to speculation?

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/15715-ten-ways-the-wealthy-dodge-taxes


05de03 No.5942

>>5783

>ITT People arguing over the means of production like a bunch of fucking commies


bf49cc No.5960

>>5885

This is already how property taxes work.


0922dc No.5968

>>5960

Real estate isn't volatile and your property taxes is the same as it was on the day you purchased it. That doesn't work for stocks and collateral.


bf49cc No.5970

>>5968

>Real estate isn't volatile

top kek

>That doesn't work for stocks and collateral.

A house is collateral.




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