/politics/ - News & Politics

>>6092

Strasserism doesn't get enough love. It's more authentic to the original idea of NatSoc and more authentic to the 26 points of Hitler's own party, yet he repudiated them as le bolshevik infiltrators, even though he was betraying his own stated principles. Was Hitler le capitalist infiltrator?

>>6092

>What are your your thoughts on National Socialism?

It's an interesting system, I really wish Mosley had a chance to implement it, I think out of all the NatSoc/Fascist movements, his probably would have been the most successful in terms of economy and managing to balance the power of the government and liberty.

Is Juche NatSoc? The ideas of Juche sound closer to the original NSDAP ideas than to the run-of-the-mill socialism.

>>6125

>I do not see why we should "persecute" the practical root of most problems everywhere forever

Hitler didn't persecuted jews, he only dared to name them and their activities (what a shoah right?), later came the conclusion of sending them to madagascar and palestine, zionist money masters cooperating in the later instance.

I'm sure you know there was no holocaust so there was no effective "persecution" to speak of, just the obvious fervor against them provoked by their own pressence, I agree with you in the dismantelation of their isolationist-parasitic culture and effective integration to the nations they inhabit though, not because "muh jewish genius" shit, but because it's probably the only way to solve the jewish problem, 110 nations have expelled them and they just pack their shit and go destroy some place else, so I believe dissolving their cultural and racial individuality would deal better with their nation wrecking habits than outright kicking them out (since they always find a way to escape before the killing starts for real).

alright OP prove you are still here and ill give my mind a whirl and some constructive posting in addition to this post

ill be pointing out pseudo intellectual lies that get repeated online and jn person by forever obedient sjw slaves

sjws claim European Americans can't be natsoc because of uncertain heritage

lets assume you arent the 60% of germanic Europeans who when UK married from UK and when sweden from sweden and German from Germany

you probably married only other Europeans who you knew

mass/collectivist description is useless as well as self identified race

many so called 1/8th native Americans have exactly 0% native american in them

we might all be immmigrants in america but the racial differences are striking even when marrying outside of your neighborhood and to ppl of other nations (see: genetic groups not countries) it is 90% chance a French man married a Spanish girl not a Greek and 90% chance a greek married from the eastern Mediterranean not from northern russia and even less likely due to cultures from the UK

holly jew and cuck talmud vision are not reality and even naive teens see this

>>6141

you can't reason with the demoralized

>>6125

Hitler was truly dedicated to fighting for his people and reversing their national decline at the hands of the Allies, the leftists, and their ineffectual Weimar government, but he definitely had his flaws.

For one thing, he was stuck in a siege mentality and wouldn't go all the way to finish the war by taking Moscow while the Brits were out of the game and the Americans had yet to enter the war.

Another thing is his obsessive Teutonic chauvinism, which goes hand in hand with his willingness to commit mass murder against certain groups of people. If I remember The Young Hitler I Knew correctly, August Kubizek stated that in the time he was acquainted with him Uncle Adolf wouldn't even listen to non-German composers. It's one thing to love your people, but it's another thing altogether when it's to the detriment of your relationship with your fellow Europeans. Unfortunately, Hitler was not a white nationalist.

As far as the Jews go, they're incompatible with Western civilization on the group level. The leftist ones promote every cultural carcinogen under the sun, and the majority of rightist ones don't reciprocate respect they receive from authentic gentile nationalists (as opposed to worthless "civic nationalism"). At the very least, they should be prevented from gaining any kind of significant influences over society. Having a group of high IQ people in your society is destructive rather than helpful if they're actively undermining your society. Having said that, the Nazi government went way too far in trying to murder them. It's just pretty idiotic how people paint the Holocaust as the worst tragedy in history when millions more died in Marxist utopias like the USSR and Mao's China, but since G-d's Chosen were the victims of course shameless, self-aggrandizing Jews will try and milk as much financial and political power out of it as possible.

I do think we need to move on rather than fruitlessly trying to resuscitate a German nationalist ideology that died seventy years ago. Instead, we should be trying to learn from their successes and mistakes while working to develop a movement more applicable to our current circumstances.

>>6141

>I'm sure you know there was no holocaust

Why is it that just about the only people who think this have a political axe to grind?

>>6125

Tying into this, friendly reminder that NatSoc Germany's economy was on the verge of a second collapse due to hitler's fiscal policies, and that WWII was like a jolt of morphine that just barely kept them from dying and later killed them anyways.

If the allies hadn't attacked, National Socialism would still be remembered as a failed ideology.

Are certain opinions supressed in NatSoc?

Which ones?

Why?

>>6156

It's always nice to see old faces popping up.

>>6092

They really knew their stuff, Alfred Rosenberg's idea of "Positive Christianity" showed they understood the cuckening and how to undo it.

>>6125

> persecute smart, genetically valuable people just because they come from a certain religious background

This was actually a fairly prominent problem with the whole kicking Jews out of the universities. Sure this gets rid of the Frankfurt School types but this is how Germany lost many good people in technical fields.

Just Look at Fritz Haber if you want and individual case , or the whole Deitsche Physik debacle.

They really should be allowed to have the choice of assimilation or leaving.

>>6152

> but since G-d's Chosen were the victims of course shameless, self-aggrandizing Jews will try and milk as much financial and political power out of it as possible

That's the despicable thing about how the Jews present holocaust. The Jew's will gloss over other non-jewish victims ; and push to the sidelines other , worse in at least in death toll, mass murders of the 20th century.

>>6155

That's the thing about NatSoc interns of economics , it seems to resemble much of Keynesianism.

It also reminds me of how the USSR had this huge economic boom under the first 3, 5 year plans , but central planning meant that it could never have such economic growth again in the long run. Its why China had to slide back into a market based system if it wanted economic growth.

>>6152

By the time you learn the truth about the holocaust you've seen a whole other bunch of shit that charges you politically.

I'm sure lefties don't know though.

>>6153

What the fuck are you even talking about? Nationalism is for everyone, it is tribalist in nature so obviously nationalists will adopt a "my country for my people" posture.

What, is it raycis if whites do it?

>>6203

Being politically passionate is one thing, reinterpreting history to fit your political agenda is another.

>>6283

>"official" history is completely objective totally unbiased 100% truth, I saw it on nat geo and all movies back it up.

At least do some research on the topic you are giving lip service to before pretending to know who's reinterpreting what.

>>6205

Until it comes to imperialism.

NatSocs are fine with nation building until they want the materials that other nations have. Then they think they're superior.

Made a separate Holocaust thread if anyone is interested. >>6332

Might be better to move the discussion there.

I've done a bit of research on Strasserism, from what I can tell Strasserist NS is much more concerned for workers than Hitlerist NS.

If anyone could, I'd like to hear what Strasserist thought is from a Strasserist.

>>6329

>>6336

Not that you are wrong, but it seems like you are using ethos to attack holocaust deniers. I think that could be considered "the fallacy fallacy"

>>6093

My understanding is that Hitler abandoned the more radical aspects of NS because he needed the support of the junkers and other conservatives. He might have brought them back if he had won the war and the NSDAP was in full control of politics.

>>6092

I think nationalism is an extremely silly conception. It has been a constant source of divisive advocating and alienation. Geographical prioritizing preaches repressive ignorance towards irregularity of otherness.

Conformity requires the dissolution of indifference through populist commodification of behavior. By exposure of signals, we deviate from perceived normality and adjust circumstantial environments surrounding a particular set of experiences.

>>6419

If Hitler won, which implies he built nukes first, his country would have been destroyed from economic collapse after the war and subsequently invaded by subversive elements of communism looking for revenge.

The only difference would be Israelis living on Madagascar instead of in the Middle East, a few thousand German women wouldn't have been raped, and NatSoc would be right there with communism on the list of ideologies that can rally people but can't manage an finance for shit.

>>6329

Holy shit, Shermer is charlatan. To even consider this undeniable proof is laughable.

http://codoh.com/library/document/1756/

>But say ONE WORD about the holocaust being exaggerated, propagandized, etc. and you will be literally jailed for even QUESTIONING

I agree that these laws shouldn't exist.

With that said , in some European countries have laws that don't even outlaw holocaust denial specifically, but rather forbid denying "crimes against humanity" in general.

For example; you couldn't deny the holocaust in Lithuania but you also couldn't deny the deportations and executions of the Soviets either.

Does this mean that because denial of soviet crimes is banned in some countries because their governments are trying create the illusion that the USSR is was a totalitarian shithole?

Its the same line of reasoning , just with a different defunct regime.

>>6431

I'm not one to argue in favor of the USSR, anon, but in the grand scheme of things, any policy that was bad for the outwards nations was 1000x worse for people in Москва.

>>6092

I'm not a National Socialist primarily because it was never meant to be an export ideology like Communism or Fascism. Non-Germans who took up the name of Nazism like George Lincoln Rockwell made significant changes to it while keeping the traditional symbols. It is an ideology for Germans, and non Germans cannot be Nazis in any meaningful way.

Even if I were German, I wouldn't really be comfortable with traditional National Socialism (the original ideology that Hitler believed in, not some modern variant) is because it is extremely imperialist and calls for the colonization of Eastern Europe and the national destruction of the peoples that lived there. That is to say, the idea of Polish or Ukrainian nation would be erased to make way for the waves of German settlers. Racial theorists like Alfred Rosenberg believed that since the Germans were superior to the Slavic peoples, they had no moral obligation to let them have their own countries.

>>6096

Juche is just Communism with nationalism and an emphasis on military power. The North Korean economy was strictly Communist for most of the country's history and only recently accepted some private ownership of businesses. In an economic sense, it's probably the most Communist nation on earth.

>>6460

I'd respond, but I'm required to have a flag.

>>6483

Oh, nevermind. Why was it doing that earlier?

>>6460

Nazi Germany relied hevilly on deficit spending, which would eventually lead to Greece-tier economic collapse. See: http://personal.lse.ac.uk/ritschl/pdf_files/ritschl_dec2000.pdf

>>6205

>Nationalism is for everyone

Have a taste of a thread on /n/ recently featuring nationalists and their thought processes:

>>>/n/204321

In that thread, we have nationalists (claiming it's about "my country for my people") justifying enslaving ethnically Tibetan and Kebab regions into the Chinese totalitarian state because it's supposedly "China's land" even though the Han Chinese are forcing what should be sovereign ethnic nations into serving them.

Likewise in that thread who would White America and Rhodesia while simultaneously shitting on regions were Whites were kicked out and/or genocided.

Regardless of your opinion of kebabs (I fucking hate 'em), be fucking consistent, faggots. Do ethnic/cultural peoples have a sovereign right to govern themselves or don't they?

>>6508

My apologies on the coca cola example, I decided to fact-check myself and it seems I was working on false information. I plan to yell at my fanta faggot knowledge source.

>>6460

>dump all your money into the military-industrial complex

>basically an economic bubble

>wow, no unemployement, amazing

This is all fine and dandy, but at some point it's gotta pop, or you go at war with your closest neighbour. Which is what herr adolf did.

It's hardly an economic miracle, more of a war machine that's got to be fed with conquered territories whcih are getting shittier and shittier the more east you go.

>>6187

>They really should be allowed to have the choice of assimilation or leaving.

But wasn't Hitler specifically complaining about assimilated Jews, that they're even worse than unassimilated Jews, because they pretend to be German and pollute the German gene pool?

Hitler embezzled what today would be billions of dollars. He was as bad as North Korea's leaders when it came to that shit, but they did pillage other countries and many of their own rich citizens who were either Jewish or accused of having communist ties. He also had all his competition killed off during the knight of the long daggers. So he was a cross between a north Korean dictator, a Viking, and Sadam Hussein. It was un sustainable, and he knew it. He even set up plans to destroy everything when he died. Like a God damn Saudi Prince. There was literally nothing good about Hitler.

Do cultural/ethnic groups within Nationalism have the right to secede by vote (strictly from those within that region)?

If no, then you don't believe in the sovereignty of peoples.

If yes, then how are you any different from a Federalist Libertarian or CSA Libertarian?

>>6531

Damn...

You're probabaly the most tryhard intellectual wannabe i've seen on this site so far.

I cringed hard. Very hard.

>>6092

Not a NS, because whatever was good in Hitler's NS transcended socialism in favor of the idea of the 3rd Empire (the State-organism).

The democratic and populistic overtones, the superficial implementation of racial theory, the narrow-minded bigotry and treachery of certain people in power... these were wrong.

I lean toward Evola's views.

>>6543

How?

>>6093

>Was Hitler le capitalist infiltrator?

Or perhaps he wasn´t a socialist to begin with and only used the label because it was popular at the time?

Shocking I know.

>>7271

You really should look into these things before you start shitposting about them.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Labour_Front

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strength_Through_Joy

It has been sanitized from the historical record that the German Reich was as committed to breaking the unholy power of international capitalism as it was to destroying communism, to building a new world in which war was outlawed and international relations would be based on cooperation and recognition of mutual interests among disparate peoples. It is startling today to read Hitler’s peace offers and reasonable proposals to the League of Nations along these lines. All were rejected by the colonialist powers that controlled it. This brings to mind the truth of Marx’s observation of a century earlier, that in the modern world, nation-states function primarily as agents of international capital, and their politicians can be counted on to place those interests above all else.

After the war, Churchill candidly admitted to Conservative MP Lord Robert Boothby, "Germany's most unforgivable crime before the Second World War was her attempt to extricate her economic power from the world's trading system and to create her own exchange mechanism which would deny world finance its opportunity to profit."

It's not hard to see how western imperialists were so terrified of the German Revolution that they made common cause with their mortal enemy, the murderous Soviet tyrant Stalin, to erase this dangerous threat to their global ambitions. And they have succeeded in recasting National Socialism as nothing less than the most evil regime in all of history, a freakish anomaly of brainwashed zombies obsessed with killing Jews and world conquest. Yet the two wars the British and French empires declared against Germany were a virtual repeat of the Thirty Years’ War three hundred years earlier. They succeeded in again dismembering that nation and this time around in killing one in four Germans. These empires, which had spread a swath of death and destruction across the Third World, were mortally afraid that the German states’ unification in 1871 (for self-defense, not global conquest. France alone had invaded their territory thirty times in the previous two centuries) would threaten their status as the world’s sole superpowers.

History is always written by the victors in the blood of the vanquished. The account we have of Germany consists entirely of the prosecution’s allegations. We are not allowed to hear the defendant’s rebuttal arguments – for they contain the truth of what really happened.

>>6480

The plan Ost thing was debated and we're not sure it happened.

>>7393

To a degree its clear. You just have to do the research.

Misassumption #1: There is only 1 national socialism.

Long knives should have shaken you of that one a while ago but fine. There are basically three legitimate types. Type 1 is pure Hitlerism. Corporarist or Capitalist is its economies. Socially/Racially there is still some argument and variation over policy so I will give you that one (Personally I have seen all sorts of ideas thrown around). Type 2 is basically Strasserism. A poster above posted all you need to know regarding that. Type 3 is pure Nazbolism (Niekich version not Dugin) where the government owns everything. Lesser known and had little exposure even then.

>>7393

>>7442

I haven't read the whole thread but I saw both of your posts stand out. You both write really well.

it'd be interesting to see some people pick out a variety of values and philosophical views and then examine the best political ideology that results...

Hitler was spending a debt-free fiat currency into a virtual economic vacuum. The people accepted it because of the person of Hitler. At some point, he would have had to curtail that and begin to tax in order to avoid inflation. I don't think Hitler had the economic or philosophical expertise to transition from a dictatorship to a representative form of government. Unfortunately, he was not given the opportunity to test his mettle in that venue.

>>6153

>when /intl/ attempts politics

nigger

also, if you want real evidence, look at NSDAP pre-Long Knives with Strasser

>>6367

this is a viewpoint that I find believable

Hitler just wanted some mates

>>6416

so you dislike nationalism because it is intolerant and ignorant of "others", and because totalitarianism is required to ensure a complacent society?

Would you rather mutliculturalism? or Open Borders?

Could you deviate from your excessive prostitution of your thesaurus

>>6486

stop trolling and think of economy

>>6507

Yeh, bu they should attempt to govern their own ethnicity only as much as they can, for simplicity's sake

>>6539

he showed everyone the happy windmill of peace, and his cool mustache

but politically, not much really

>>6540

happy windmill of peace

>>6125

Yes, that's why I think we need to have a new ideology.

I believe Nationalism is a necessary thing to counteract the plauge of corrupt globalism,

However all the nations should have something like a federation, each with their own customs,traditions,heritage...etc

The important things and priorities in national socialism are

1.Volkism

2.the nation

3. the leader

The first two are essential while the third is not as important but it helps in certain situations.

We need to avoid the (cult of personality) aspect which is very hazardous if not enforced by a strong mentally independent volk.

We don't want sheeple,and we don't want a weak leader.

otherwise we will end up with a cancerous situation like the one we have with /pol/