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File: 1429159940678.jpg (73.79 KB, 460x300, 23:15, image.jpg)

22bd88 No.13020

Bear with me, polpol, while I lay out the logic. This is long so I split it into several posts.

First, I would use a word like "Retrofitted" or "Retooled" because to be a viable rival on a global level, it's going to have to be purged of most of its "local" Chinese-ness. It needs an aesthetic reset. We have to get rid of the image of guys in funny hats and robes with dusty old scrolls, and strip it down to some kind of lean and mean essentialist core that can be applied anywhere.

A lot of people see Putin as the "great white hope" but that's another argument, and not one I'm going to get into here. Suffice it to say I think he is a good leader of his people, but Russia as it currently stands is not global-hegemon material. Neither is China, for that matter. But the thing to be understood about Confucianism is that it is more a "civilizational paradigm" than a philosophy, ideology, or religion. It's a way of life, and one deeply entrenched (with some local wrinkles) in Korea, Japan, Singapore, and elsewhere. It travels well and has remarkable staying power (2500 years and counting).

The thing is, Confucianism is as much descriptive as prescriptive, and it is flexible enough to be both. And it's the only thing with enough torque to beat off the globalist cancer
(Con't below)

22bd88 No.13021

File: 1429160122340.jpg (98.64 KB, 397x473, 397:473, image.jpg)

Thought experiment: look at the following list of Confucian attributes, forget for a moment that it has anything to do with China per se, and tell me this isn't a strong and viable alternative (especially as it is already common sense to 1-2 billion Asians).

Source for the following:
http://mailstar.net/confucian-renaissance.html
"A number of characteristics which have distinguished Confucian civilisation over several thousand years can be traced to these writings. These include:

"(1) A reverence for antiquity. Hierarchical order, due respect, the succession of generations, and the debt to ancestors are embodied in the Confucian sense of antiquity and provide the framework on which a purposeful and responsible life can be constructed.

(2) A spiritual concern with the forms and functions of the State. Confucius was unique amongst the world's great spiritual prophets in concentrating attention on the importance of the forms and functions of the State. By this means he created a spiritual concern for the proper performance of the duties of the State which has made a major contribution to the fact that throughout the several thousand years since his death it is likely that more human beings have been mobilised in one political entity in China than in any other part of the world. The Confucian influence has focused human energies on mastering the virtues which make for good government.

(3) A respect for education. Confucius emphasised by example and in his teaching the importance of education or self-cultivation in the service of the community and to achieve good government. His teachings have contributed to the development of a tradition of ruthlessly competitive education as a preparation for the holding of high office and as the essence of bureaucracy. This bureaucracy has governed China and continuously recorded this experience over several thousand years, in a manner unknown elsewhere in the world.

(4) A preference for government by Man, or virtue, rather than by law. Confucius clarified a major weakness of the rule of law which is little understood in the West today, in a key passage of the Analects in the following words

"Lead the people by laws and regulate them by penalties and the people will try to keep out of jail but will have no sense of shame. Lead the people by virtue and restrain them by the rules of decorum, and the people will have a sense of shame and moreover, will become good"

(5) An acceptance of the diversity of spiritual and philosophical authority. Confucius lived in the Spring and Autumn Period and the Period of the Hundred Philosophers in Chinese History, a time of remarkable philosophical activity, not only in China but throughout the world. The Confucian achievement, however, accommodated the rival teachings of Mozi, provided a strilcing compliment to the Daoist teachings of Laozi and Zhuangzi, and prospered in the face of the conflicting teachings of the Legalist thinking of Han Feizi. Buddha, too, was the originator of a more familiar type of religious tradition which has been welcomed by the Confucian world of China. Confucianism has created a unique culture in China in many ways but perhaps in no way more important than in creating an environment where different spiritual traditions, ie Confucianism, Buddhism, Daoism, Christianity, etc, can prosper together.

(6) The creation and promotion of unique concepts of humanity (ren) and ceremony (li). Confucius promoted a perception of social order where these concepts were central to the wholesome functioning of a human community. Subsequent interpretations have produced perhaps the most sophisticated understanding of how to order large numbers of people in the largest institutional structures the world has known."
(Con't below)

22bd88 No.13022

File: 1429160239091.jpg (378.29 KB, 1200x900, 4:3, image.jpg)

And add to the material in the previous post a further list from the same source:

"(1) An emphasis on obligation within society rather than rights, and a complex tradition of mutually interacting pressures to ensure that all members are caught within the network of obligation and share both responsibilities and rewards.

(2) An emphasis on rule by Man, or virtue, rather than the law, which maximises the harmony and cohesion possible in society, stresses ritual or "rites", and tends to ensure that competition is pursued within a framework of established ceremony and courtesy which preserves social consensus.

{p. 55} (3) A high emphasis on rigorous, even ruthless competitive education, which instills lifetime standards of excellence in all, and allocates lifetime positions of national bureaucratic and other authority to the victors of the educational competition.

(4) An acute sense of the linkages hetween past and present which promotes a keen awareness of historical time and the long term commitment necessary for major institutional and related achievements, contrasting rather strongly with Western short term emphasis on the "bottom line" and "cost effectiveness".

(5) A high sense of the value of human community and order rather than material possession and accumulation with ultimate economic authority being placed in the hands of those with non-commercial motivations of a high order, but a shrewd and hard-headed understanding of commercial reality.

(6) A high regard for logic and rationality balanced by a strong sense for the need for intuitive and emotional checks, reflected in some ways by the complimentary spiritual traditions of Confucianism and Daoism."

(Con't below)

22bd88 No.13023

File: 1429160663528.jpg (627.07 KB, 1920x1200, 8:5, image.jpg)

Now, it's not perfect, but as an organizing principle for any society, it beats "hurr durr lets fuck everyone up so bankers can get new Lambos" on the right and "hurr durr MUH oppression MUH injustice MUH genderqueer victimhood innate right to attention whoring" on the left. Id love it if the Stoics or Spartans were still around to add some backbone to the equation, but let's face if, those realities are long gone while Confucianism is still a lived way of life for billions (even if they don't consider it "Confucianism").

A few more interesting reads by the same author of the quoted parts above

Speculative theory that the west is well aware of the Confucian threat and is trying to counter it by pushing Taoism, Confucianism's ancient rival and a much more anarchic and world-denying philosophy that would soften up Asia for happy-merchant infiltration and hijinks:

http://mailstar.net/tao-cap.html
More trans-civilizational dirty geopolitics, down n' dirty:

http://mailstar.net/asia-crisis.html
More on the power of Confucius:

http://mailstar.net/chinese-civilization.html

1ff852 No.13043

>>13020
>Lead the people by laws and regulate them by penalties and the people will try to keep out of jail but will have no sense of shame. Lead the people by virtue and restrain them by the rules of decorum, and the people will have a sense of shame and moreover, will become good.

You've certainly captured my intrigue.

It certainly is remarkable, if what you suggest, or your source, rather, is true. That being said, there are a number of conflicting points I'd like to raise for you to mull over.

Is culture a function of genetic and racial history? If that's the case, does it then follow that Confucianism, being from the perspective that you've given us a mixture that is both philosophical, spiritual, and political whilst never quite truly being each in its entirety, cannot be adapted for a western peoples that require some form of spiritual and philosophical absolute to rule them? The Chinese give an impression of masterful bureaucracy and management of the masses in the most orderly way, but what is their God? What raison d'ĂȘtre does Confucius answer to?

Now, I believe that this can be adapted to the west and to the people, simply because it includes into much of the perennial philosophy. I'll be researching this on my own, thanks for bringing it to my attention.

With all of that being said, it seems more of a mindset of ruling, rather than a panacea for what we are stuck with now.

1059d3 No.13049

>>13043
>but what is their God

Heaven.

49212d No.13052

>Chinese cultural imperialism

Not even fucking once, and you can't "retrofit" an idea that is inherently Chinese by its very nature. It's like "retrofitting" Communism to be non Jewish, the philosophy is basically the political appropriation of Judaism much like Confucianism is, at its heart, the philosophical appropriation of East Asian peoples.

Also, for those complaining about Christianity pacifying white people (patently false throughout history) Confucianism in East Asia has created a zombie like people happily conquered and pacified easily by nothing more than a bowl of rice on every table.

b17ab0 No.13055

>>13043
>The Chinese give an impression of masterful bureaucracy and management of the masses in the most orderly way, but what is their God? What raison d'ĂȘtre does Confucius answer to?

This is a difficult question to answer simply becuse he seems to posit multiple primary inputs as core values, rather than a single easily reducible idea or ideas. He places strong emphasis on all the stuff mwntioned like family, sincere morality, education and so on.

There are two particular things he puts close to the center of his worldview that I found interesting and slightly alien to the Western mind as currently construed.

First, ritual is massively important to confucianism. Correctly performing the rituals of state, even when they seem tedious and meaningless to our eyes, are seen as vital to confucianism. It can be seen in the way East Asians often seem to adhere woodenly and even perhaps autistically to the minutiae of ettiquite and social formality. As near as I can tell, it has something to do with "ripples of propriety" spreading out from the center. The king acts with perfect propriety and so his ministers fall in, and harmony spreads out from the center. Rather than being governed by written law, it's kind of like "goverbmebt by resonnance." This is hard for the western mind to wrap it's head around, but one way to approach it might be to think of the way that in a well-run, close family, daddy sets the "tone" by acting as he should and mommy falls in and fulfills her roles. Then the kids are happy becuse things seem to be as they should and there is natural harmony.

Which brings me to related point nunber 2: Underlying this emphasis on ritual and protocol is a deeper way in which aesthetics has a moral dimension. Part of the Kings's duty is to dress perfectly neat and conduct the rituals with the grace of a dancer. The aesthetic impact plays a role in creating moral order and social harmony. This is quite literally the exact opposite of "degeneracy." In the Confucian worldview, you can't have people dressing like slobs and making filthy Hollywood "entertainment" and still have a moral society. Part of the social order is dignified behavior and beautiful, uplifting aesthetics. No value is put on "escapism". The Germans under Hitler also understood the moral dimension of art, as did Socrates, who equated truth with beauty. But nobody in the west seems to see ritual itself as a form of "moral art" that orders society through skillful use of aesthetics.

1ff852 No.13061

>>13055
I see your point, and I believe that there was a video, on vimeo, in which a British man explained the objective nature of art and aesthetic beauty, which in and of itself was a manifestation of this universal truth. Of course, that borders on religious truth, and echoes much of what I was taught as a child - that God was immanent in every single iota of existence. Not to mention the simple fact that, from a purely scientific and material perspective, everything can be reduced to energy, or a fundamental substance of existence. This all supports the idea that there is some fundamental, absolute truth to life, so working backwards it makes sense that this can express itself harmonically, resonantly, and hence beautifully, and so by engaging oneself in the beauty of life - so long as it is the truth, and not some false beauty that the modernists would feed you - one can live out the truth every day.

In this way, I can support strict adherence to ritual, so long as the purpose and meaning of the ritual is maintained. Moreover, I understand what you mean by the added bonus of natural… I suppose that I would term it conditioning, this social pressure and raising to be ritualistic. It falls in line with scientific rationale about bodily functions and their timetables, such as sleep cycles. "The body loves routine", and all of that.

Of course, by adopting strict adherence to routine, we would run the severe risk of symbiosis with that same mechanical lifestyle, as >>13052 mentioned. For example, commute by train into the CBD in my city can become an exercise in autopilot mode for thousands, and so they lose their time, their thoughts, their self, and hence their very essence of existence purely because their mind tunes out and undergoes the ritual. Now, active participation may or may not change this, I'm inclined to believe the latter, having undergone a Catholic upbringing and seen apathy firsthand in Church rituals. This, I cannot tolerate as a function of the state, as it erodes the very spirit of the people. I suppose that that is the pitfall of plain ritualism and the calling card of an oriental culture.

I believe that in order to rectify the clash here, we must institute a means of ritual that allows a level of autonomy, intuition, and critical thought in the participants, while at the same time maintaining a base level of 'truth', 'harmony', 'morality', or whichever term you wish to use, as I think that you understand the quality I aim to describe, and hold that quality steadfast as the backbone of society.

ff2d41 No.13090

Not very convincing OP, sorry. This doesn't seem to have any potential in Europe; we already had Stoicism and Christianity which are obviously more suited to our racial soul, I can't see see this one gaining any traction.

In fact more likely it's gonna be the next victim of confused materialism as those billions you mention become immersed in consumerism.

a66c3e No.13095

id want communist-capitalism man

look i get people abuse communism and capitalism i could care less whats it called the basics are simple, give in to the basic needs of the many and make it a competition to get more.

- basic needs are met, so no squabble can start over living standard, food-house-and i hate to say this but thell want it now, communication, default no work needed but they must maintain property and value thereof, (meaning if your poor give them skills not skillz skills,trades, everyday need training)

-if you want more a vehicle, a costume home,you know basically the "lifestyle" you have to work, many people will, fuck i would take more job risk ie looking allover for a perfect fit if i knew taking time off a job didn't mean not eating.

- and as for the rich and already powerful, everything should really stay the same but less fuckery from them, you cant kill your nation and say your saving it, MAKE your nation better thena the others before casting out others. fuck whens the last time something innovative cam eout of the automobile cartel, or the computer yakuza, we seem to be at a halt because they want to sell everything they have RIGHT now without making new shit, just to keep afloat a few more years

- or plan b just wait, so many people are pissed to the point where they dont care, dont car whats next, dont care how, dont care when, but this game isnt going to last forever but we need a discussion soon or well just lash out

1a92c5 No.13155

Many of the virtues you see in Confucianism have rich European equivalents in the Classics and the High Middle Ages.

That legacy was deliberately stamped out by Enlightenment intellectuals and their modern successors. It would make more sense for us to look to Aristotle and Thomas Aquinas first, and then consider what we can learn from Confucianism.

0e20cb No.13167

>>13020
>First, I would use a word like "Retrofitted" or "Retooled" because to be a viable rival on a global level, it's going to have to be purged of most of its "local" Chinese-ness. It needs an aesthetic reset. We have to get rid of the image of guys in funny hats and robes with dusty old scrolls, and strip it down to some kind of lean and mean essentialist core that can be applied anywhere.
Nobody has that image, except the Chinese, because nobody cares about the Chinese.

6b83c8 No.14122

>>13052

>Not even fucking once, and you can't "retrofit" an idea that is inherently Chinese by its very nature. It's like "retrofitting" Communism to be non Jewish,

Not a valid comparison; Confucianism has a multi-millienial history and has been influential outside of China…one may argue more influential in Japan and Korea at certain points in history.

Now you could argue that it's inherently "Asian" and has no place in the West but if you objectively examine its doctrines, most are more compatible with the best aspects of White civilizations than much of Semitic Judaism…Abrahamic religions are not racially closer to Nordic man than Confucianism.


6b83c8 No.14150

File: 1430535836226.jpg (1.84 MB, 4622x3683, 4622:3683, image.jpg)

Let it also be stressed that becuse Confucianism need not be a metaphysical system in its purest form, but rather a form of social organization, there is no contradiction in being a "Confucian Christian," a "Confucian athiest," or any other religion or philosophy at the same time as one embraces Confucian social ideals

****

"Most scholars have preferred to think of Confucianism as a social and ethical system and not as a religion because the sage based society on natural foundations common to all human beings anywhere on earth rather than on metaphysical speculations which have tended to divide men.

Indeed, the divorcing of ethics from metaphysics was perhaps one of Confucius' greatest achievements. It enabled his morals to live on while most other doctrines became antiquated or underwent drastic changes. It provided common ground on which men of diverse religions could live and work together (as they did in China in contrast to historical Europe or India ) ."

http://mailstar.net/chinese-civilization.html


540f9a No.14152

I've been following Gamergate since Day 1, and about four months into GG, I discovered Neoreaction.

The more reactionary theory I read, the more Gamergate seems like the grassroots affirmation of every key reactionary principle. The complex of gaming media and academia you've uncovered is essentially a small wing of the Cathedral, your organizational structure recalls Evola's Mannerbund, you reject the modernistic politics that have undermined so many other anti-left movements.

I didn't strictly know about these theories at the outset of GG, and I don't think anyone else did either. But then I come onto this board and discover that you guys are now reading Evola.


7f409d No.14185

>>14152

how do you even begin to understand evola? i tried ride the tiger, it's all horribly confusing


ed3509 No.14188

>>14185

Ride the Tiger is probably the worst place to start with Evola, if you're going in without a background knowledge of early 20th century philosophy and politics.

Read Men Among the Ruins for his political theory, and Revolt Against the Modern World for his more general worldview.


fedbd8 No.14284

>>13020

No op don't touch that shit, confucianism is the main reason why the Chinese are so held back by their own traditions. The whole ideology revolves around the respect for elders and authority, the young people must obey their elder or the authority and this held back their advancement of technology and ideology. People who grow under that kind of ideology are mindless drone "good guys" who hate changes, which leads to the lack of development and innovations as "change is bad". For reference you can check on the Qing dynasty closing off their boarders for around a hundred year to prevent western influences, within the same period where Britain and the majority of Europe entering industrial revolution. Needless to say china get it's ass kicked later on because they haven't advanced at all compared to Europe and Britain.

If it wasn't for confucianism china would've been very close to us in terms of technological and medical advancements.




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