/polpol/ - Politically Incorrect Discussion

>>14420

>Modeled directly on the West’s imagined "invasion" of Crimea

Nevermind the Russian were already there… In a based they rented for decades.

On-topic

If Russia invades it will be over way quicker than in Georgia, why do they even waste money on shitty drills?

>>14422

*In a base

>>14422

Show of strength as reassurance for the people, general PR to look like a wall against Russian strength, trying to bait Putin with all the NATO connection involved, etc. Or it could be general testing for potential civil unrest/war, I don't know what the situation is in Lithuania.

There's plenty of reasons to do war games besides planning for an actual war.

>>14424

the politicians in Lithuania actually think that Russia will invade, they even passed a conscription law. 3,5k male, aged 19-26 will be drafted every year for reserve soldiers. Also because when Lithuania joined NATO it pissed off Russia. so they made a deal that lithuania cannot have any NATO bases.

>>14420

im feeling sick, but we can have some disscussion on this topic

>>14437

>the politicians in Lithuania actually think that Russia will invade

I really doubt it. You don't have to be a genius to realise that Russia has no reason to do it, nor the power to have a war against NATO. Which leads me to the question of why do they act like this, when its more than clear that no one is gonna attack them.

One thing that can be said is that regardless of your thoughts on Russia and Crimea Lithuania is NOT in a position to provoke Russia like this.

>>14441

Your also vastly underestimating the Bear it has a massive army at it's disposal and can deploy them efficiently and quickly this is one of their primary strengths. They have Nukes, they're allied with China and have joined in as one of the bigger partners in the BRIC bank they have the power.

Putin also wants to, expand Russia's borders that's why all Her neighbors are nervous and want to join NATO. Russia needs to though because NATO is putting massive amounts of pressure on Russia forcing Her into a corner so now the Bear has no choice but to push back.

>>14438

Germany didn't want to start a war but the Allied Nations did. I think this is the same thing but different semantics, this is escalation by NATO and by proxy the US in pressuring Russia to shoot first so they can proclaim war without being blamed with starting it first.

>On Monday, major steps were also taken toward ratifying a joint military brigade between Lithuania, Poland, and Ukraine.

>British troops are also engaging in Estonia’s largest military exercise since its independence, which will involve over 7,000 reservists.

>>14443

Ok lets say they do have the power, why would they want to go to war with NATO? Especially over some country with 5 million pop? They're more than safe.

Also:

>Putin also wants to, expand Russia's borders that's why all Her neighbors are nervous and want to join NATO.

Is a really false statement. I've seen this many times, but no one actually gives any examples or the logic behind this.

And the funny thing is that NATO was made against the USSR, after that country dissolved Russia wanted to join NATO, but they didn't let them.

>>14444

The surrounding countries that used to be part of the USSR was the back bone of the Soviet empire because the actual country Russia had very little in terms of anything except oil to support itself. This same reason is why Russia needs these same countries back into the fold.

>Ok lets say they do have the power, why would they want to go to war with NATO? Especially over some country with 5 million pop? They're more than safe.

They don't want to go to a Nuclear War however NATO wants to go to war with Russia. Russia also sees weakness in a dieing empire, Putin's supporters want to expand and grow.

And again, Russia is constantly being provoked by increasing pressure and escalation in terms of political maneuvering such as this one and economically like sanctions.

>>14497

GDP is a poor measure of a country's worth since it only measures things in terms of money which means if there isn't money involved or it doesn't have a price it doesn't "count", it also doesn't take into account loss of any resources within the country only production, and it doesn't tell me what resources or potential resources it has.

When I say Russia is poor I mean it's country is poor for agriculture and similar resources that isn't mineral resources because of it's climate which limits it to only a tenth of it's land being able to sustain any agricultural activity. No amount of money is going to change the need for food.

I do howeever concede that they're poor for any other reason it was my mistake for assuming you knew what I mean't. Although I disagree with your assessment that there is no other reason political economic, or any other kind.

There is one more, War, Russia's entire military strategy throughout it's history has always been the same as follows; setup a meat grinder, wait for the invading force to exhaust itself in taking land, hammer down on them with your own forces lying in wait. The satellite countries will be used the same way they've been for centuries sacrificial lambs.

>>14533

*Cont.

Amanda Taub: Do you think that on the American side there's a good understanding of Russia's positions?

Evgeny Buzhinsky: No. No.

The Ukrainian crisis was very much influenced by the spoiled relations between Obama and Putin. Because otherwise, they would have talked to each other. You mentioned the Cold War. In the Cold War time, there were definite red lines on both sides. And both sides knew there were red lines and tried not to cross them, tried to not even come close.

Ukraine, for Russia, is a red line. And especially a Ukraine that is hostile to Russia is a definite red line. But the US administration decided that it's not. [The Americans believe that] Russia will never dare, Putin will never dare, to interfere.

Amanda Taub: I think from the US side there's a similar perception that Russia thinks the US is weak. That Russia thinks the US is sort of unwilling to defend Ukraine.

Evgeny Buzhinsky: Objectively, the US is not weak. We could not stand on an equal footing with the United States using only conventional weapons. Only on nuclear [weapons] do we have parity, only on strategic nuclear [weapons] do we have equal footing. As for conventional warfare, we do not, and we recognize that, and we are trying to catch up.

Max Fisher: What is it about missile defense that you think has been so contentious?

Evgeny Buzhinsky: Missile defense is an issue of strategic balance.

The old metaphor is two gladiators with swords of equal length. One acquires a shield. What's the way out for the second one? Either to have a shield or to get a second sword. That's the answer.

So it's strategic balance. It's deterrence potential on both sides. If the US decided to acquire a missile defense shield — and not a limited one, it's a global one — then what does Russia have to do? Well, actually, to acquire more anti-anti-missile defense. That means the development of more sophisticated nuclear warheads with the capacity to overcome missile defense. And so on.

Max Fisher: In that view, is this US program defensive, or is there a concern that it might also be offensive?

Evgeny Buzhinsky: Well, you see, it's funny when you differentiate between defensive and offensive.

You see, in all the military academies, in all textbooks, missile defense is qualified not as a defense against the first strike. It's the defense against a retaliation strike, the second strike, which gives the illusion to the attacking side that it may survive retaliation strikes. Because you cannot repulse a first strike with any missile defense, or you've got to have tens of thousands of warheads.

>>14497

To be honest, comrade, the only real reason we'd take Ukraine would be for the break baskette

>>14525

Still don't agree on some stuff, but thanks for the info.

especially this:

>>14533

>>14534

I'm not sure if the other Russia thread is dead so i'm just gonna post Russia relevant stuff here if thats alright with everyone.

>ABOARD THE USS VICKSBURG, North Sea (Reuters) - NATO launched one of its biggest-ever anti-submarine exercises in the North Sea on Monday, inviting non-member Sweden for the first time, amid increasing tensions between Russia and its northern neighbors.

>More than a dozen vessels from 11 countries are participating in the "Dynamic Mongoose" exercise. NATO will simulate detecting and attacking submarines in one of the most hostile seas, with rugged but shallow underwater canyons, rapid currents and unusually high sound pollution from freshwater pouring in from Norway's fjords.

>>14558

https://archive.is/rRBDF

>>14582

The US has a massive fuck all navy that they can't use on direct Russian targets because Russia has anti-everything missiles out the wazoo, Russia has a fuck ton of tanks they may or may not be able to use depending on how the fight breaks out, they're around equally matched in airforce, and ground troops depend on individual encounters.

NATO's mostly running old busted shit, and most nations don't pay their defense minimums, so they'll definitely need to toughen up if they're going to keep poking the bear like this, just in case.

>>14420

Don't even need to click the link to see from ops wording its full of pro Russian lies

Russian policy Is to 'help' then russify and it has been for centuries

I'm glad the small nations are doing what they can to avoid 'cleansing' of all non Russians

>>14604

That video of a nigger with racist comments on his kikebook and a bunch of good got sjw hipsters speaking in Lithuanian and apologizing is so dense with kike filth

>>14617

Pro-russian narrative because the News source is Russian.

>>14626

Well you're not going to find a Russian source that isn't to some degree pro-russian, just like you aren't going to see a TV news network that isn't kike to the bone. Say whatever you want about Russia as a nation, but they have a pretty heavy lock on the media.