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File: 1431207346617.gif (346.1 KB, 352x240, 22:15, media.gif)

541d34 No.14455

Alright, in the United States the media is allowed to lie.

http://www.projectcensored.org/11-the-media-can-legally-lie/

It's not illegal, they can distort or outright falsify news and broadcast it to the public. Should the law be changed so that the news cannot outright lie? How should it be changed? Would you want to count the intent?

I could see making it completely illegal to lie might just cause a "chilling effect" because errors are quite possible, I would want to take their intent, primarly looking to stop hoax news that has been out of control lately (false flags). Not so concerned with simple mistakes but stopping outright fabricated news, which they can do with impunity today and use all of the time for political purposes or simply to fill slow news cycles.

We did get the Brian Williams story lately, which was trivial as hell, I'm pretty sure that was a show made to placate right-wingers, and so people believe that lies will be dealt with internally.

Anyways, I just wanted to start a conversation about this, it really bothers me that they can not only lie, but straight out fabricate news stories, and as long as it doesn't step on the toes of some powerful business they get away with it. I think this problfem is a lot bigger than most realize and the PR and Mass-Media professions keep growing in popularity, making false news is basically making your own work, they aren't going to stop unless they have to.

The mass-media isn't going to bring this problem to your attention, obviously, and if it was dealt with I'm pretty sure it would be an extremely negative thing for their business and for that whole sector of the economy. I don't have a lot of tears for the news media however and think it does need a good spanking, and that industry is already distorted and oversized.

How would you deal with this without handing the news media to big government? I'm not a fan of "fairness doctrine", which really doesn't say much about truthfulness anyways, just "balance", but I do think the news media should not be able to intentionally lie.

541d34 No.14456

Also, is the news media treated differently than the regular public as per free speech? I know there's been some debate over whether bloggers have the same rights as say print news, protections from having to expose the names of whistlblowers.

Does it seem very fair that the courts get to decide who is and who isn't a journalist? I'm not sure that journalists deserve any special rights.

But then if you made lying illegal for journalists, would that apply anywhere and everywhere for the general public? That would be undesirable and I'm sure the law would be abused.

Is it even possible to prevent the media from lying, by law, without amending the Constitution or Bill of Rights?


541d34 No.14457

I'd really like a solution that prevents the news media from fabricating stories without gutting the free speech of the rest of us


c89ea6 No.14470

They will find ways to get around it, but I guess having the possibility to hold them accountable would be better than nothing.

But overall it wouldn't change by much, they would only get things like:

>"we have been recently told that…"

>"an anonymous source claims…"

>"supposedly/allegedly/possibly/potentially/most likely"

>"based on this info we could conclude that…"

>"could/would/should/might/ought"

>"as far as I know"

>"we think/believe/guess/assume that…"

>"although we may be wrong, there is 0.0001% we really are"

At best you could get them to stop doing shit like claiming that a certain person had said something, but even then they could easily get away with it by changing only one or two words.

You could only control how frequently the media lies by actually having power over it, meaning total state control over it. Other than that, you would just have to live with the fact that the media is going to pump more and more bullshit every day. The only way you are going to prevent the media from taking control is by getting less and less people watching TV and relying on newspapers and news sites. If not steer them away from it, then at least actively remind them to doubt what is being said, and not in the "everything you know about the world is a lie" hipster fashion.


d973b4 No.14472

>>14470

There's your issue, OP. Trying to legitimise inherently corrupt organisations is like pissing into a bushfire. You need a hard reset, or to start fresh.

I was speaking to some /leftypol/ yesterday explaining to him why degeneracy must be recognised and stamped out, giving simple everyday examples. After conceding the necessity of some kind of state-wide moral cleanse, he asked me,

>How do you stamp out degeneracy? You saw how the prohibition went

I told him that the helm of power is always squarely in the possession of the people, and so to eliminate degeneracy you must raise good people, as only then will their fruits be clean. He didn't provide a retort (while staying active in the thread), so I'll assume that he agreed.


541d34 No.14482

>>14470

>>14472

You're both right, it's really up to people to give less legitimacy to the TV (or mass-media).

The First Amendment makes it pretty tough to do anything legal anyways.

But how do you get people to stop trusting TV when they've been raised on it for multiple generations? I see some young people turning away from it, but they just end up on Youtube which is nearly as bad, and constantly being tweaked by Google to make it work more like TV

I really wish people saw media personalities as despicable, their job is to lie to millions of people at a time, but they get treated like celebrities.


5b8c18 No.14491

>>14455

Yes, it should be illegal for public news to lie. If it were then shit like 9/11 and sandy hooks wouldn't be spread as much as they are.


541d34 No.14494

>>14491

Nothing would make me happier than seeing people held responsible for hoaxes like Sandy Hook, but it's almost unimaginable when they control the government, the courts, the first-responders, and have the backing of military psyops. This country is so utterly fucked it's amazing.

My only hope is that one of their schemes spins completely out of control. They seem to be increasingly ballsy so perhaps that will happen


5b8c18 No.14498

>>14494

The masses are too retarded too think, thus nothing that doesn't directly affect their life will not make them do anything. Thus I place no faith in the stupidity of the kike to ruin themselves through a media hoax. It will be a human who will be their downfallx but I also see that the failings of the kikes will provide the opportunity.


2e7643 No.14500

>>14498

Bread and circuses, I don't think they will wake up for anything. Even if the CIA came out and claimed they are responsible for 9/11 people would be act outraged and complain online as they did when information about the NSA was revealed but in the end do nothing and just sit there and take it.


056ef1 No.14512

>>14455

Yes.

I'm with Mosley in this regard.

The State should be able to sue a newspaper if it prints proven lies.

If the newspaper is sure of themselves, they can go to court and show the whole world how right they are and force the government to deal with said issue.

If they're wrong the whole world will now that newspaper is not to be trusted.


541d34 No.14513

>>14500

I think you're right about an admission on 9/11, I've thought about this and I think the only way for public discovery to have meaning would be if there was a major emotional event that was clearly seen to be false *immediately* upon hitting the news. While the emotion is still hot.

Obviously that's unlikely to happen because people are blind as fuck when stories are new.


541d34 No.14514

>>14512

I keep thinking that there would be different solutions for a hypothetical uncorrupted state and for the US today.

Off the top of my head the US has to deal with the First amendment, and in our situation handing more control to the government also seems a bad idea (basically the same larger group of people that are already making false news).


056ef1 No.14515

>>14514

There's little that can be done with the current state of most governments in the US or Europe.

Only radical societal and government reform is the answer.

The time for soft changes has been over for at least 40 years already.


541d34 No.14516

>>14515

I really think that it is coming. Our government is acting like they are preparing for it, that they are scared of the people. It's plainly obvious the past few years.

They're acting like they expect the radical reform, but also acting like they are trying to get out ahead of it to control it. At the same time they seem to be preparing for failure (bunker mentality)

It just keeps getting more and more bizarre..


541d34 No.14517

I also get the impression that military is targeting the US population with psyops. That we're just another group of the enemy that needs to be fooled. People still hold up the military as some incorruptible group of heroes when it seems apparent to me that they are working towards globalism and see the US population as just another enemy to fool.

I always hear the argument that the rank-and-file military wouldn't target US citizens but they are doing so with psychological operations at this very moment (JADE HELM is a good example)


f44d27 No.14524

>>14516

US government is literally shizophrenic, no one is in charge.

Though I can't find the interview again I saw one once with a DoD official who plainly said he once tried to understand all the different things DoD is occupying itself with and that it's impossible to even try to map. Most of DoD doesn't know what the rest is doing because it's too big.


5b8c18 No.14528

>>14524

>shizophrenic, no one is in charge.

Wrong. The kikes are and that's why it's shit.


228a37 No.14531

>>14528

Obviously, but there's a fight right now between multinational mammonistic kikes and Israeli ultranationalist kikes over who decides the fate of america and of the middle east. Financial jews want to break sanctions with Iran and allow them to clean up much of the surrounding area, because they'll ally with the current financial system instead of those new fancy BRICS banks, and actually dig out that oil from the ground for them to make a profit off of.

The Israeli kikes want their "holy land" the top dog at all costs, and want to create the state of Greater Israel at the cost of everyone else in the region.

This is why the US is so schizophrenic about the whole Iran deal and the clusterfuck Yemen war currently going on, and why the media has no idea what to report on, there's a massive internal struggle going on in the White House over how their military will shape the world.


e13846 No.14541

>>14455

>Should it be illegal for the news media to lie?

Yes.

Problem is, one has to be able to prove that someone was lying and wasn't simply mistaken.

Which is why politicians, instead of calling each other liars all the time, claim that their opponents are "wrong" all the time.

It's very hard to prove a lie.

It's very easy claim they or someone else was just "wrong".


541d34 No.14544

>>14541

Yeah but you're never going to be able to prove a negative (that event X didn't happen). At least not without power of subpoena, which in cases of hoax (false flag) news will never ever EVER be used because government is in on it with the media. The courts will never let the first step be taken to attempt to prove the story is false. So you just end up with a bunch of internet researchers doing the best they can to point out faults in the narrative, but for 90% of cunts that's never enough they want "proof" that something DIDN'T HAPPEN, which would not be available without being able to subpoena and attempt to recover what I guess would probably be film production materials


541d34 No.14545

>>14541

>>14544

And on top of it all, the people that perpetrate media hoaxes use the courts for their own advantage, threatening people that dare even take the first steps of independent investigation of fraudulent news stories.


2fc82d No.14554

They have power and control, but zero responsibility. I inform as many as I can, but there should be laws against this.


541d34 No.14555

>>14554

I still can't figure out what the laws would be. I can imagine that if you just made it illegal for broadcasters to lie, then hand that power to government to enforce, they'll define the truth as they wish and just go after the truth-tellers instead.

It would almost be better to just ban centralized forms of mass-media considering somebody is always going to end up controlling it and using it for evil. But even that is unworkable because whomever is in control of government will of course WANT mass-media because it enhances their control. It's like no matter which way I think about it, we're going to have a TV and it's going to be used to lie to us. Abstaining from it personally, while recommended for your own sanity, doesn't solve the problem either as long as the masses watch and they always will if the option is present

Benevolent dictator? Good while it lasts, however long that is.

Mass-media is a real pandoras box, so ultimately destructive to mankind and we immediately let the Jews seize control over it.


3d4fce No.14564

Huh. I guess polpol is low level baby shit too. >flies away to blogworld


541d34 No.14579

>>14564

My apologies for not meeting your standards of discussion (whatever they may be)

Maybe next time point out what your problem was (but don't bother if you just meant that you don't believe that the news is full of hoaxes)

t. babby


096d40 No.14621

>>14455

Recently people have mentioned astroturfing which makes a group appear as something it isn't by fake individuals pretending yo be part of the group

OP why would you still believe the Jews don't own all the media, all central banks of importance, and all major politics?

Non reply or ignoring of my post confirms that this thread is an astroturf

Screenshot and archive now before it gets deleted and the shill tries again


83f714 No.14627

It's too hard to define "lying" legally. There's too much wiggle room, and truth is a very relative concept anyway, so they will still find ways to get away with saying half-truths as >>14470 said.

Media sources are already heavily reliant on their reputation, nobody will take a news source seriously if it gets out that they lie often (see HuffPo, Daily Mail). Of course the problem is that people have varying opinions on what is truth and what is a lie: Conservatives believe anything supporting liberals is a lie and vice versa. The root cause of this is that the American public is largely uneducated and does not understand the difference between what is not true and what they don't want to be true. In fact, I suspect that if this uneducation was solved (or at least uneducated people were prevented from participating in public discourse) media honesty would take care of itself, since lying outlets could not longer count on being supported by idiots who swallow their lies hook line and sinker because those lies are what they want to hear.

The free market solution is to have a third party organization check and verify news and announce clearly which sources lie and which don't. The problem is that before widespread adoption, much fewer people will follow this rating organization than will follow the news source in question. There is also the question of who runs this organization, how they remain impartial, but that's irrelevant if it will never see widespread use.

The statist solution is to emulate the USSR or the Third Reich. These governments sidestep the problem of defining honesty by instead being very authoritarian and clear about their ideology (unlike modern Western liberal democracies which pretend to have no ideology beyond "being democratic"), it doesn't matter particularly whether you lie or not, but whether you disrupt the government's schemes. This is a much more clear cut distinction, and in these regimes you hardly ever have media which publishes any lies (or facts for that matter) that interfere with government's plans for society. If you happen to be satisfied with the government, great! But where to find a benevolent dictatorship?

The moderate solution is something analogous to the FDA. Have the FCC provide a special "honest" certification to every new company, which can be displayed as a logo in the corner of the TV screen, the website header or the corner of the newspaper page. The right to use this logo is only given after a non-partisan committee of trained journalists and experts within the FCC thoroughly checks your past conduct to verify that you publish factual information only without distorting or misrepresenting the facts. Presumably the public would value honest news more, so this logo will act as a massive pro-honesty incentive for companies.

You still get the same issue as FDA: What if the news corps start bribing the committees, and other such shenanigans? Well, hard to say how you could stop it. But for what it's worth, while there are obviously cases of corrupt dealings between FDA and pharma, I think on the whole the FDA is doing a pretty good job. Any drug you buy will probably list all known information about side effects and the like, all of them are tested in clinical trials, none (barring freak accidents) are spoiled or some chemical other than what the box says, none will outright poison you (unless that's the point, as in chemotherapy drugs). Same goes for food, while companies try to get clever by obfuscating ingredient names and so on, by and large you can look at the ingredients list of a food you buy and get a good idea of what's in it, and thanks to the nutrition values, how healthy (in a very rough sense) it is. I've never heard of a company bribing the FDA so that they can say on the package of their food it contains 30 gr of protein, when it only contains 13. In any case, if FDA was abolished and we had to rely on a private food/drug review aggregator(s), I think the result would be much worse.


541d34 No.14642

>>14621

WTF dude? I don't think there was anything about my OP or later comments that would justify your challenge there. I even said that giving government the power to enforce "truth" is a problem because they are the same people.

Do I have to use the word "Jew" somewhere to make you happy?

>Screenshot and archive now before it gets deleted and the shill tries again

Who's going to delete it, the mod? What are you implying you piece of shit shill?

>>14627

I could imagine your moderate solution being useful if there was also room for public comment or a way for people to challenge "facts'. Actually that could be pretty fun for participants and observers if they allowed real lengthy debate.

More than likely it would still corrupt and they would just control access to the committee and decide the truth however is convenient.

After thinking about it and reading the replies here I think that you're right that it's too hard to define. Seems a pretty tough situation, TV gonna lie, people gonna watch, people not gonna think critically. And it seems like it gets worse every generation…

How do you expect a generation of non-critical thinkers to raise critical thinkers?


541d34 No.14643

>>14642

>>14627

>How do you expect a generation of non-critical thinkers to raise critical thinkers?

I didn't mean to make that sound like it was directed to you. It was just a rhetorical question


81ee01 No.14912

Not only do you need to prove that they are lying, but you have to figure a way around a company's ability to word craft.

Fox news was under the spotlight by the Obama administration for being dishonest a few years ago. They recovered by saying that they were an opinion outlet (rather than news). And opinions shouldn't be illegal. :^)




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