/polpol/ - Politically Incorrect Discussion

I've got no idea how this would work.

1. this probably would cost lots of shekels.

2. why not just use .onion websites?

>>15813

I read an interesting thread, it may have been on /tech/ or somewhere else, but the idea was to convert the internet from being server based to being p2p. There's some problems with this, but it would help the internet downsize and lose some needed weight. From a privacy standpoint as long as the lines are tapped and there is backdoors everywhere nothing will change. Also like Satan said

>>15818

it will cost many shekels.

>>15819

>I read an interesting thread, it may have been on /tech/ or somewhere else, but the idea was to convert the internet from being server based to being p2p.

I think I remember the thread you're talking about. And I believe they were talking about this here: http://ipfs.io/

It turns the Internet into a gigantic bittorrent swarm and it incentivizes people to lend their harddrive space as a way of mining cryptocurrency (filecoins). You earn filecoins by lending harddrive space and you spend filecoins in order to store files on the network yourself.

There's another one called Maidsafe that uses the same concept, but I think it's a lot further away from completion

>it will cost many shekels.

I think this filecoin idea holds a possible solution to the shekel problem, if used as a way of investing in things such as meshnet (https://projectmeshnet.org/).

>>15830

My knowledge of tech is quite basic, but how likely would it be that a project like this would succeed?

>>15831

As likely as the amount of popular support it gets, so it's the same old chicken and egg problem. However that's the reason why I've resurrected the thread: because I've thought of a possible way around it and I believe it's something that we would all enjoy doing.

I'll talk about it later today because I want to gather up a few views before I plug it and see what polpol thinks.

But basically, to solve a chicken and egg problem like this you need something that people enjoy doing anyway which also has long-term results. Immediate as well as longterm gratification at the same time.

>>15832

I hope your way around it doesn't involve alot of people, because we might need to advertise on other boards or to altrighters outside of 8chan and It could prove be quite difficult to those people.

>>15833

and It could prove to be quite difficult to reach those people.*

>>15833

There is always a certain, minimal amount of recruiting, proselytizing, advertizing, whatever you want to call it. But for any good strategy of winning people to an idea, this is only the embryonic stage. A good strategy is one that picks up a momentum of its own and draws people to it, and needs only a small number of people as a seed to get things going. The energy you spend recruiting should only be like the lighting of tinder to get a good fire going.

>>15836

Alright thanks, for clearing that up.

Well…here's my line of thinking since we last had a major discussion about this on pol a couple of months back.

We considered various ways in which one could build an alternative Internet, cutting ISPs and Internet backbones out of the equation. Things like:

Mesh Networks: www.meshnetworks.com

Pirateboxes: http://piratebox.cc/

Packet (HAM) Radio

And while they're fun to talk about, how many of you have a HAM Radio license, or the money and time to get one, or have any clue what meshnet or piratebox are? There are communities of tech-savvy hobbyists working on these things, but that leaves the rest of us in a passive position. We are waiting on someone else to provide us with the tools we need for an independent Internet, free of censorship and mass surveillance, etc. We are neutered.

I don't like waiting on the silent work of obscure hobbyists to slowly bear fruit. I want something that large numbers of people are able to actually do right now.

>>15818

>why not just use .onion websites?

One thing that we didn't talk about much was darknets like Tor and i2p. They were considered irrelevant: you still needed access to the regular Internet in order to use them so they didn't really count as a legitimate way of "seceding" from the Internet. But I'm thinking now that this was a mistake.

Darknets are a partial physical migration from the Internet in that they allow you to host websites (onions, eepsites) on your own machine. You no longer need hosting service providers; companies whos job it is to monitor and record user activity, share it with the authorities and shut down websites when ordered to do so. Darknets can free us from this kind of centralized authority, if we would only use them more. A thriving darknet could be ported to run on whatever sort of alternative architecture, like meshnets, that eventually becomes available.

And that's where we can come in. We can help turn darknets from the ghost towns that they are now into an actual, viable competitor for the worlds Internet traffic.

Darknets have a problem of self-fulfilling isolation.

Hardly anyone goes there because the amount of available content is next to nothing compared to what is available on the clearnet. Same thing applies to the social scene: just not that many people.

For content creators and webmasters this means it isn't worth their while to set up blogs, podcasts, wikis, art galleries, social networks, etc on the darknet. There just isn't a big enough audience to justify it.

These two problems feed off of each other.

There are a couple of possible ways around this problem. Webmasters could do what 8chan does: create a synchronized darknet version of their website. That could work if a large number of webmasters, bloggers, vloggers, artists, etc were willing to do it. But then we're back to just passively waiting on someone else again.

I have a different idea.

All that wonderful content on the Internet? Life Hacks, Wikipedia, Metapedia, CNN, YouTube, Deviant Art, Counter Currents, etc. It's ours. We screen scrape it all. We take everything that isn't nailed down and use it like we own it. Parse all the text into mysql databases, archive it along with all the multimedia files that were scraped up with it, and make it all available on eepsites and onion sites.

You can use these archives to clone websites and run your own darknet version of them. You could merge the content of different websites together. Or use the sql data to build all kinds of crazy mash-ups that wouldn't even be allowed on the regular Internet, like a mash-up that shows examples of collusion between major media outlets.

If content creators don't like it (I'm guessing they won't) then they'll be more inclined to set up a presence on the darknet themselves: their stuff is getting pirated to the darknet anyway so they might as well be the ones who put it there themselves in order to have some control of it. In this way we draw more content creators to the darknet whether they like it or not, drawing more traffic.

And finally, it will attract more darknet developers. Developers want to work on software that's being used and is popular. This translates into higher quality software, faster bug-fixes, better support and a much more robust darknet.

>>15843

Your post just went over my head, eventhough i read it afew times, could we get a tl:dr version?

>>15844

I gotta leave for a bit. I'll explain it more when I get back

tl;dr

What is something that large numbers of people could do now to help make the Internet more resistant to censorship and government surveillance?

Start using the darknet en masse instead of the regular Internet: Tor Hidden Services, i2p eepsites, freenet sites, whatever.

But it's a chicken and egg problem. There's very little content on the darknet, so not many people are interested in using it. Because not many people use it, not many webmasters want to bother building websites for the darknet. Just not a big enough audience to make it worth their while. So the darknet remains stagnant.

Solution: We don't give webmasters a choice. We just outright copy existing websites onto the darknet ourselves. Copy websites you like. Copy websites you hate. Whatever.

By pirating content to the darknet, people no longer need to use the regular Internet in order to view their favorite websites, so they don't. They just use the darknet. As more and more people use the darknet, webmasters and bloggers and merchants begin to see it as a more attractive place to create their own websites. This, in turn, attracts more people to using the darknet.

It all starts with a little piracy.

>>15846

this probably wouldn't work since most people that use the internet nowadays are normies and normies just stick to facebook, youtube etc. They wouldn't touch darknet, because of the ghost stories surrounding it. Excluding normies, most people that I know of, really don't care about internet privacy unless its something written by a 12year old on facebook and most importantly I don't think we have many tech savvy anons here at /polpol/ we WILL need to advertise to people who know how to do it.

also I think you might need to redirect us to tutorials how to pirate this stuff, speaking for myself only I've got no idea how to pirate stuff unless its movies , music or pdfs.

>>15847

Normies would be the very last people to get into it anyway. I'm just looking to broaden the number of non-normies who could participate.

To know how to pirate websites you would have to actually know what screen scraping is, and what mysql and php are. If that sounds like latin to most people here then yes, we would have to advertise elsewhere. Probably tech for starters.

I have a feeling I'm laying out this whole idea way too many steps ahead for people who aren't already familiar with it. Last time I talked about it was on pol, and the thread dragged on for several weeks, so I'm probably assuming prior knowledge about a lot of things without explaining them.

Here's an archived link to the original discussion. I didn't want to post it right away because the whole thing starts off as somebodys wonky science-fiction idea before it actually turns into a serious discussion. But it'll give some context for anyone who's interested: https://archive.is/5vWap

Well, I'm turning in for tonight, but I'll keep checking back to see who joins the conversation.

>>15850

The problem with the darknet idea is it's not really seceding from the internet. It's like halfway from seceding. You're not removing the server based internet you're just rerouting traffic through p2p service. If anything a Tor based internet might just slow everything down. Both the setup of a p2p network and the setup of Tor will need some computer literacy, but which is easier is debatable. But, by simply screen scraping all the existing content you're just bringing the cancer into the darknet. Tor has also been largely compromised too, but this isn't a privacy thread. The benefit of p2p is that you build a community among like minded peers, by just bringing all the stuff the masses want in you're just encouraging the same stuff. The difficulty is encouraging people to explore the different peer pools so that the pools don't become circle jerks.

I'll think about a solution later.

>>15853

>It's like halfway from seceding

That's true. This would be only one small part of a bigger picture. Other people are working on the technology for getting around the server-based model. Our contribution to this would be a social one. A thriving darknet could be ported to work on other kinds of architecture besides the server based model, once those are in place, assuming there's a darknet worth porting, with lots of people and lots of content. And in the meantime, even though darknets aren't perfect, they do make censorship and surveillance more difficult than they normally would be.

>If anything a Tor based internet might just slow everything down

Other options are already on the horizon, which make speed issues childs-play. Just skip to 9:15 on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CMxDNuuAiQ to see what I mean. But in the meantime we need to start with what we have. When these better alternatives come along we can just migrate our content over to those and keep on scrapin'.

>by simply screen scraping all the existing content you're just bringing the cancer into the darknet

I have more in mind than just building clones of existing websites on the darknet. I want to make archives of the raw data itself available, and with this you can do a lot more than just clone websites. Activists could combine the content from various news outlets and put them all together into one database, then use it to look for examples of cronyism and media collusion. Doing this now would be a lot more time consuming because you have to dig through the archives of different news websites.

You could scrape blogs like feminist frequency, clone them onto the darknet, but the darknet version would be slightly different. Each of the posts would include rebuttals to the claims being made by radical feminists, along with links to sources, etc.

We could attract serious researchers and activists who could find a lot of use for large quantities of scraped data, as well as novel ways of mashing it all together.

> Both the setup of a p2p network and the setup of Tor will need some computer literacy

We will attract more technical people if this starts to gain some popularity. But in the meantime, the few of us there are have to be willing to work with anyone who is interested and baby-step them through it if need be.

I'm hoping to sell this to people as a kind of social thing. Why do people volunteer so many hours into things like writing and editing wikipedia articles? Because it's a gift culture. People who make large contributions are recognized and respected within the community. We need something like this for web scrapers too: So they're not doing it all for the cause (yawn) but they're doing it for fun. Fun is more sustainable over the long term.

>>15870

Well now I can see what your goals are, and also what you're doing the screen scraping for. You basically what to make an alt-net™ for things like YouTube rather than just bringing YouTube to alt-net™. That's a better idea because look at how things are currently being done.

Both China and Russia block a lot of western sites, but they have replacements for those sites. Russia has VK for social media and China has Renren, for media sharing China has Youku and Russia has RuTube (they haven't banned YouTube yet). The importance of this is cultural lock down. I said this in a different thread but if you have visited a lot of western countries or western peripheral countries you'll see people interested in a lot of the same stuff. Disney is a worldwide cultural phenomenon, by locking Disney's ability to infiltrate their media the Russians and Chinese can at least protect their people from receiving BS messages. The problem goes back to circle jerking though. You need your own content creators but a) they need to actually create content, whereas i.e. China is mainly just copying everything else. b) masturbating to your own material is fine but it needs to be proven superior, yeah your idea about taking blogs and adding rebuttals is a first step, but it has problems (but some of these problems may not be an issue dependent on your vision for this network). I'd want to see more of how you envision your network before I list out these problems because they might not be problems for you. Also I might want to copy the pasta from my red pill rant since it covers some of the issues of culture.

>>15871

Some of the more far-off ideas are a little fuzzy and disconnected. I'll get them down on paper so they don't just sound like vague speculations and post something tonight or tomorrow.

>>15872

For that I will give you part of my red pill rant.

>The world is connected these days culture has spread from country to country. Go look at normalfags and you'll see the same interests across countries. It's all thanks to the internet. And the stuff they absorb is loaded with messages, messages about equality and all that other bullshit. Take Disney for example which is popular among girls around the world from the time they're born and thanks to the infantilism of our education system they never grow out of the fairy tales. As for guys, there isn't one thing like Disney, but YouTube bullshit crosses sexes and everything. Which is why places like China and Russia have giant firewalls, if there is less of a chance for that shit to spread they can develop their own unique identity. So sure Russian and Chinese people are obsessed with Disney and Youtube, but they're just as materialistic as any other place. Still my point to you guys is that the internet is the greatest opportunity to redpill as many people as possible. You just have to create content that subconsciously hammers it into their brains. Normalize it and it will spread, use shit people are already interested in and retool it to present redpills. A short animated film Disney-esque in style presenting a story about communal unity will go a lot further than spreading facts. People don't want facts. They want experiences, they want memes.

>>15880

>Not an Internet just for right-wing/conservative/traditionalist, whatever you want to call it. I don't want to censor leftists or marxists or SJWs. I just don't want them being able to censor us. Free speech is an all or nothing deal.

Free speech is too simple a formulation and inadequate for the mushy and cthonic world that we live in; the cutting of the gordian knot occurs as a myth and isn't congruent with reality.

My perception of things is that the only way to not be shut out of a discussion is to own it, or own a stake in it. To describe this visually : a discourse has a Kingdom, and/or landlords and fiefdoms, everyone else is shut out and marginalized to the wayside. To what extent they can enter discourse, it must be violent and disruptive.

Now let's consider for a moment a place that is implicitly radtrad/conservative/fascistoid whatever - it has a rich fauna of memes, an entire continent of mythology and several autonomous agents that interact with this environment and for all intents and purposes belong to it.

In such a scenario, you would not need to explicitly censor THE SJW MENACE[example meme] because they would self-censor by temporarily adapting to their environment or leaving altogether, they have no other choice save for violence because they have no permissable room to colonize in earnest - the colonists would always live in the shadow of a history they do not share in, on land that will always be contested aggresively by forces that find themselves in perfect opposition to them, and thus progressively find new justifications for disregarding common decency in the name of combating the enemy. [nevermind, common decency is a foreign currency in lawless spaces]

That you yourself will not censor your opponents is irrelevant, many others do not share your scruples, are ready and willing to manipulate a situation to the point they desire it to escalate to. You enable these actors by allowing them in your tent - whatever you're trying to accomplish will turn to shit, guaranteed.

Free speech in the absolute means giving an outlet to those for whom free speech is the water to their waterborne virus.

That free speech is your current absolute doesn't mean it will stay that way 5-10 years from now. An absolute makes way for a new absolute, and the way absolutes go, it can be perfectly opposite to the previous absolute.

Don't believe me? Your mistake to make.

Before we go about creating a "new internet" we need to secure the existence of a distributed chan platform which cannot be shut down. Honestly, every day I wonder if 8chan will disappear, or if an authoritarian government will arrest users for visiting (you should be using a VPN) it, in the name of preventing: cyberbullying, racism, terrorism, etc.

A project I would love to build is a distributed chan, that used the existing i2p network.

>>15883

I'm basically holding my breath waiting for SPLC to do another one of their hoaxes, with the suspect being a persona with links to 8/pol/

I just really have a feeling it's going to happen

>>15884

It really won't take much, in fact I thought they already had enough with Roof being involved in far-right discussions on the internet.

If the UN gains control of TLDs, I'm sure you can expect to say good bye to sites like 8ch.

there is a small chance if SJWnonymoose takes down Stormfront their next target will be 8chan. there are already some shills threatening /pol/

>>15887

Nah, these are just bored 14 year olds without technical abilities. It's just going to be a bunch of shit posting and "expoct us" threats.

>>15882

Yes Free Speech is like one of Plato's True Forms, but that does not mean the Freedom of discourse and several other lesser forms cannot exist in reality. Even if true freedom of speech were to exist people as you would, as you say, self-censor. There is no laws that exist that say you cannot say "nigger" it's simply people self-censoring themselves. But, to let an enemy messenger in your camp to express their side does not mean your house will suddenly become divided. Have you seen the SJW? They are inarticulate their way of expressing opinions is simply to shout the loudest and censor any other points. Normies don't even care about SJW, sure they were on the news but how many just changed the channel, they haven't brought Anita back after all.

SJW effect us because they effect censorship on the web which is popular among governments. Allowing them to speak among your people will most likely only prove what a fool they are.Because a person shouts the loudest they may be heard, but everyone else may simply think them to be obnoxious. The reason freedom of speech would die and the reason freedom of speech is dangerous as you say is one in the same. Governments love to control free speech because it is dangerous, and free speech is dangerous because it allows ideas and information to spread. If the normies ever feel that controlling free speech will allow them to be safer they will ban free speech. Free speech dies on the will of the community, and the majority of the community would rather have safety than liberty.

Ideas aren't dangerous in their own right, they're dangerous when they are believed. Once an idea is believed in there is no more powerful force, for men are willing to die for it. You see for most people an idea becomes a corner stone of their identity, that is why they'll fight for it; that's why you might find a normie forsaking food and pleasure to go out on a crusade. But, if that normie doesn't believe in anything, they are not willing to die for anything. Free speech as an ideal has existed at the very least from the time of Socrates; it has been displaced but it has never died.

Your warning is the same as the slippery slope, I'm not saying it is a fallacious argument I'm just saying I can use your reasoning to prove this point:

To have the precedent of censoring freedom of speech will just give whomever inhabits government the ability to censor their enemies. I.E. If the web-masters censor SJW and the SJW takes over, we're just censored again. I say it's better for them to wear dunce hats than shutting them up. But, we can agree to disagree on free speech, and that's the beauty of it.

>>15880

The censorship was definitely a contentious point since it would defeat the idea of the alt-net in the first place.

The problem with using existing darknets is the fact that a lot of exit nodes are filled with the Feds. Other than that it's mainly about marketing and an easy to use solution, on a consumer level.

Of course you need mass-media, look at everything Today, mass is the norm. If for example Hollywood can make way more money making a million Michael Bay movies they'll do that instead of making something deeper. At the same time, look where you are; you're on /polpol/ if anything /polpol/ has been getting more active lately even though the amount of people that are active generally doesn't change much.

I agree that we need familiar looking sites that will bring more people in, that way they can come through the gates and experience a land where one person's "truth" isn't the truth. Governments would have no say in what the established message is. It would be like a large version of the Chans basically. At the same time, familiarity breeds contempt; it's why people go on roller coasters, it's why they watch horror films, etc. We can't just repurpose DisneyWorld we have to build our own theme park. As you say it starts with scraping, the framework can remain the same, and similar content can be present; but, overall the content and theme must be very different. It's why edgy 14 year old kids like posting on the Chans, and why whiny Manginas like posting on Tumblr. Because, at the end of the day you aren't marketing this to us, that'd be like telling your followers exactly what they believe; you're marketing to the marginal people, to Reddit more-so than YouTube. But, through the marginal people more will come, but not everyone will join your cult, but at the end of the day not all can be saved.

Basically you're better off, for your more page views, advertising a unique experience to people who aren't already convinced that this is the way forward. Convincing us does nothing. Yeah there'll be some who remain, but fuck them, people remained on 4Chan and look at them.

(Also for your content creator idea you should look at how a specific subsection of the Japanese economy does it, because it's basically what you proposed.)

>>15882

>My perception of things is that the only way to not be shut out of a discussion is to own it, or own a stake in it.

Mass migration to i2p. People of our subculture, migrating in large numbers, will set the cultural tone of a place that currently doesn't have much of one anyway. Sink our roots deep. Build our memes. Make our Weltanschauung an implicit part of the whole culture. Make our websites, search engines, etc the de-facto way in which people use i2p, just like google is the de-facto way in which people browse the Internet.

For a long time we'll remain under the radar simply because the darknet itself is under the radar of public awareness. During this time, we consolidate our presence. By the time people start noticing, we'll already have a major stake. A cultural stake. If our ideological opponents start trying to establish their own, they will be marginalized by the prevailing culture.

I'm all for cultural domination. What I'm against is an Internet that is run by a central authority that has the ability to censor. People can moderate their own chans and discussion forums, yes. But not the network as such. If you don't like the way a certain forum is being moderated, you can go build your own somewhere else on the network. But if the network itself is under censorship, like the Internet is, then you have nowhere to go.

Even if you agree with the way certain people run the network, everything eventually changes hands and goes under new management. Just like 4chan did. And they are a weak point in the security of the network. All it takes is a visit from the feds to their door. They'll get a good talking to about how they'll get a chance to meet Jamaal if they don't fork over all the data, or start censoring certain types of content, and then we're up a creek. That's why I want a decentralized network. The responsibility of maintaining the culture should be in the hands of those who create it. Not in the hands of network administrators. Culture is social, not technical.

>>15893

>Convincing us does nothing.

Not entirely true. We need people to get this whole thing started. People to set up eepsites. People to start scraping content. People with the necessary talent to create content. We're in the recruiting stage right now.

>(Also for your content creator idea you should look at how a specific subsection of the Japanese economy does it, because it's basically what you proposed.)

Go on….

>>15895

Yes advertising for doing this does something, but most of us are already convinced of the need. Though some of us will need convincing to do the technical portions because let's face it, Chan members are largely lazy bastards.

>Go on…

You poor bastard you don't know what you're doing to yourself.

Japanese Doujinshi. In fact that' part of the reason /a/ is upset about TPP.

For the sake of ease I will quote Wikipedia

>Japanese term for self-published works, usually magazines, manga or novels. Dōjinshi are often the work of amateurs, though some professional artists participate as a way to publish material outside the regular industry.

>Despite being in direct conflict with the Japanese copyright law as many dōjinshi are derivative works and dōjinshi artists rarely secure the permission of the original creator, Comiket is still permitted to be held twice a year and holds over half-a-million people attending each time it convenes. However, the practice of dōjinshi can be beneficial to the commercial manga market by creating an avenue for aspiring manga artists to practice…

Basically it's a self-published industry that forgoes copyright law and people earn shekels for their work because people buy them.

>>15894

> mass migration to i2p

i2person here, keep the dark markets off of i2p they fucked onionland over since they brought in druggies and scammers by the thousands per day.

>>15903

lol dark markets are coming regardless of who brings them. Silk Road has already set up shop on i2p. Just wait until ipfs and Maidsafe get up and running. They incentivize their own use (the lending of harddrive space) as a way to mine crypto-currencies. Now that's going to be a dark market.

I can't fucking wait.

It seems that you guys are determined at fighting for your objective, and I would like to offer my help by pointing you in the direction of two communities with similar interests… Conversations like this are frequently talked about on /cyber/ and on several of the boards on Lainchan.org.

I feel that if you want a project like this done, then your going to need help from anyone who thinks similarly.

>>15925

>Who here owns bitcoins, or knows how to mine them, or where they can buy them, or would bother to buy any even if they knew?

I think I'll quote a different thread from a different board

>look where you are. a lot of these people probably got into bitcoin when it was just first starting.

>>15927

As long as they're pol-friendly, or at least don't have any serious hang-ups about pollacks, sounds good to me. thx anon

>>15961

The good thing about bitcoins is that you can transfer to another wallet fairly easily. For convenience sake a Patreon-like website might be good, but the infrastructure is going to be a problem. It basically comes down to you need someone you trust to do it.

>>15966

I'm thinking there might be a crypto-currency designed with this purpose in mind, where the "escrow" is built into the currency itself. I'm certain it's been thought of.

But barring that possibility, there are a couple of options:

Trust someone with a pseudonymous identity and a public key to be the escrow. Only trust them with small amounts at first so that if they take the money and run it's not a huge loss. You will only be able to fund small things at first: short comics, simple memes, short stories, etc. Or you could pay the escrow in a number of installments. Wait until the blockchain shows that they've passed this payment on to the artist, and then pay the next installment. As they build a reputation over time they can be trusted with larger amounts of money.

Or pay the artist directly. Some artists have a well-established reputation and they don't need an escrow. An escrow could be an optional part of the patreon site.

When this thread was first posted back in April, it inspired me to create a board about it. I've added a post for discussion on Internet Secession Part 2:

https://8ch.net/volknet/res/834.html#839

For anyone who'd like to continue the conversation over there. I'll continue posting my thoughts in this thread as well, because there are a lot more eyeballs over here.

>>16055

Why not >>>/cyber/?

>>16056

/cyber/ sounds good. In fact I'm plugging the same idea over on /cyber/ too:

>>>/cyber/21308

>>16055

Just make the main boards and let people create their own boards. There's enough cross over that we shouldn't give a damn to cater to everyone's hobbies. There'll be people into pedophilia coming a long, there'll be people into vidya gaems coming along, there'll be weeaboos even. Just stick to the main boards and let other people build the boards they want. You can offer a form that a potential board owner fills out and that can either create the board or send a request to you.

Also drugs, there'll be a lot of that too.

>>16055

I tried looking for you on i2p, no luck assuming nothings been done yet. I found some of the dark chans and they seemed to have some /pol/. The problem is that as soon as some place becomes good to hang, the shills come in droves.

>>16055

>>16056

>>16067

Briefly read your posts on /volknet/ and the post on /cyber/. For those of us who are relatively illiterate with the tech, and rarely use Tor, how do you suggest doing this? All very new for me.

>>16073

I never even said what the name of my eepsite would be yet. I'm still learning how to use kasaba-x (the board software). I won't be setting up an eepsite until I get a separate harddrive, because I'm 100% certain that someone will try to hack the site and gain access to my machine. Whenever the site is running I plan on having my personal HDD unplugged, and I'll be backing things up every day. Give it a couple of weeks. Gotta learn the software and order in my SSD first.

>>16071

I don't think kusaba-x lets people make their own boards. Plus I'm going to be running this from my own machine, so I can't have 1000+ boards running anyway. I'll make a /meta/ board where people can make suggestions.

My Ideas

/trad/ - Radical Traditionalism

/gals/ - Sexy conservative gals

/alpha/ - Alpha as fuck - Game - Redpill - Inspirational - The opposite of r9k

/apoc/ - Preparing for the apocalypse

/book/ - Books that people have scanned and digitized, as well as make requests or offer BTC for books to be digitized.

/bet/ - Make bets with bitcoin. Bet on the outcome of various current events. Especially any Happening-related stuff.

/hacks/ - life hacks

/mach/ - Machiavellianism

/occult/ - fringe/x/paranormal - related

Interesting Boards From Other Chans

/jew/ - Thrifty Living

/diy/, /howto/ - Guides and tutorials

Currently trying to set up vichan on my machine, because I heard kusaba-x was crap for security. Plus I'm trying to set things up in Ubuntu, which probably doesn't make things any easier. Getting all kinds of database errors and file permission errors, which change according to the method I use for installing lampp.

If there's anyone here who's got some experience with setting up an imageboard I'd like to hear from you.

This is meant to be the home-base for our invasion of i2p so I want to do it right.

>>15813

>Technical

>

>What actual hardware & software we should use in order to build it. The general consensus seemed to be that we should build localized mesh networks and connect them to one another over long distances via some sort of unconventional packet radio.

I barely know enough about software and I've never built any electronics.

I like mesh networks for their concepts and I see them viable for a Global option with AM/FM/satellite augmentation. It would only be hard to get the signals across the major oceans.

>Cultural

>

>The other discussion was about the cultural and artistic side of things. A lot of people thought it would be important for us to have our own iconography, memes, mythos, etc to go along with it, in order to give it a sense of cultural identity and prevent it from just becoming the hobby-horse of a few techie geeks.

I'ver never taken religions, mythologies, and symbols seriously except as Identification.

I wouldn't want kids to be taught that there is an active God sitting on invisible clouds watching them every second of every day that cares if they masturbate.

>>16076

>/bet/ - Make bets with bitcoin. Bet on the outcome of various current events. Especially any Happening-related stuff.

You should read 'Assassination Politics' by Jim Bell. Then read about Jim Bell

>>16132

I'll give some links to help

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Bell

http://www.outpost-of-freedom.com/jimbellap.htm

The idea is very neat, and was thought of well before bitcoin became a thing. But I'm not aware of anybody implementing a betting market that fills that kind of role, unless I just didn't hear about it. Seriously though, read about it, it's fascinating

>>16136

Well it would be because of the legal implications of online gambling. Though, something on an alt-net wouldn't have to worry about that. Hell you could use a bitcoin casino to fund the whole operation. There's a difference between speculating on bitcoin that's on an exchange and speculating on events.

>>16132

Just skimmed the wikipedia article & I'm gonna read the whole thing tomorrow. Not interested in assassinations or anything, but definitely interested in the general principles and how else they could be used.

>>16148

Thx anon, I'm also thinking that the wireless route isn't possible at the moment. It would take some drastic legal changes, or at least cultural ones (like replacing the rulefag sperglords with some new blood). For the time being we're talking about making better use of the darknet.

But I'm wondering what you think of the big three darknets (onion, freenet and i2p). Doesn't freenet only allow static content?

>>16150

Radio doesn't work because it's just too much a technical challenge for actual digital text transmission, vs analog voice. The latter can easily (and reliably) be transmitted anywhere on the planet assuming you have the right transmitter. The rulecuckery isn't a fixable problem, in the past twenty years with the rise of the Internet the only people left in the civilian radio market are hardcore rulefags that take "preservation of the airwaves" extremely seriously.

>But I'm wondering what you think of the big three darknets (onion, freenet and i2p). Doesn't freenet only allow static content?

Onion isn't perfect but it's what I use and what I'd develop for if I was in your shoes. It's the most widely adopted alter-net and so far it hasn't been cracked. You can easily run a tor node on an rpi or a VPN, the only real issue is that because you're using the larger telephone/cable grid ISPs can see traffic at exit nodes. However, that's "fixable" if you run the node on a public network, such that the tor exit traffic would mingle (and ideally, inseparable) from the regular public traffic. Of course, public networks already tend to be either heavily used (like free wifi in an apartment building) or heavily monitored (such as a college's wifi network).

i2p is an improvement on Tor but needs a lot of work. My experience is mostly with mechatronics/EE, thus I'm not going to speculate on the finer details of i2p (especially vs Tor) because I'd likely bungle it. But I can tell you that i2p at least appears to be more secure than Tor (at least going by their technical notes), but it doesn't nearly have the same install base as Tor.

Freenet is probably the most "open" internet possible, because it's all distributed via p2p. However, this raises anonymity concerns as the client must always be on so it can recashe pages and display them to other users. To your ISP, all they see is a lot of bittorrent traffic (unless you change the default ports you're using). And yes while all the content is static, remember that you can do a lot of stuff within that limitation. For example, one of the reasons hotwheels is making infinity next is because *technically* all the old imageboard/bbs software are designed as static pages. This works well if you have low bandwidth (and correspondingly, low useage), but it doesn't scale well. But then again moot somehow managed to scale futaba to keep 4chan running. Anyway, as for "my thoughts", I'd say it has more potential than i2p at this point. I2p is in this compromise position of being a more secure (but incompatible) version of Tor/onion. Freenet is completely different, while it doesn't offer as good anonymity it makes it virtually impossible for a single node to crash freesites.

I should add as a disclaimer: my experience with tech is mostly mechatronic/EE stuff, so I obviously look at things from that angle (and not the angle of say a programmer or network specialist). Hence why I bring up phone lines at all, because it's easier to configure an illegal (but functional, and for the most part non-detectable) device that works on an analog phone line than one that works with a digital coax cable network.

>>16154

Hey keep an eye on this thread anon. It's good to have a few techies around whos brains I can pick, but right now I gotta leave for work.

>>16154

>but it doesn't nearly have the same install base as Tor.

I actually consider that a good thing. We could set the cultural tone of the i2p network if enough of us migrate over. That's why I want to build a chan there and start pirating massive amounts of pol-related content.

>>16149

>While the connection is slow (again, it's DSL), it might offer better anonymity assuming you're actually dialing into your destinations and not using VOIP.

Might be a good way of transferring certain kinds of data, like keys maybe.

Actual secession is not currently possible, but building a private networked operating system interface over the current Internet could actually work.

I've been researching mass-scale distributed computing solutions for a startup idea and found this framework [https://github.com/gocircuit/circuit] (partially funded by DARPA & Tumblr - make of that what you will) that considers itself a "cloud compilation" Infrastructure-as-a-Service (IaaS).

>>16371

if anything intresting comes from that conversation please post here, it looks theres a few tech people in here

I never follow these meshnet etcthreads too much, because there are always new ones and they don't really get anywhere.

I wish that would change. I'll read up on the stuff in this one later

Just wanted to say that while most of the country would lose network in a happening, there are communities that are absurdly easy to meshnet or at least make a local network.

I live in a mountain community in a small valley (about 2-3k people depends), we could seriously cover this whole thing with wifi in a single day if SHTF, like community websites for cooperation etc without having connections to the greater internet. But this place has a lot of techies and the geography is optimal.

I think about it

>>16136

The idea sounds clever, but over-all he sounds like a typical libertarian quack. He actually believes that such an organization would be allowed to exist, based off of a bit of rinky-dink legal reasoning. Implying that a tyrannical government would give two shits & a fuck about legalities in the first place.

>>16447

But it's still a clever concept: it could be used as a particular way to create hyperstitions. The folks over at /bmw/ might find it interesting.

This is why we need to build a second Internet guys

I am in disbelief that other nations have not started this.

OR for redundancy sake for the USA.

>>15813

ask al gore, he knows all about the internet

>>16735

a second internet….why….ITS BRILLIANT!

you must be some kind of madman tbh

:^)

>>15813

There are already multiple networks like this, such as i2p and GNUnet. These are different from the actual internet in that they operate on a peer-to-peer basis, meaning that the users connect directly to each other instead of connecting through service providers. No service providers means that there's no central hubs on which users must rely, meaning that there's nobody to bribe or threaten into censoring anything. If somebody has a powerful computer with a fuckton of memory that can be left on at all times, and the money to keep it up, they could take infinity's sourcecode and put it up on freedomchan.gnu or something. No amount of isp censorship or anti-net neutrality legislation could keep us from accessing it.

>>16620

this guys