/polpol/ - Politically Incorrect Discussion

This book, someone posted it here already.

I have a few natsoc economic PDF's, but know very little about historical/classical economics.

>>7085
I'd also like to ask, before you delve deeper, do you understand the basis of our current political system? If not, I recommend Thomas Sowell and his Basic Economics and Advanced Economics books.

>>7082
>>7085
>>7086
We all post the same PDF.

This is the only thing I have that really fits the bill, a discussion on the differences between monarchy and democracy on a semi-economic level.
>>7087
Yeah I thought the two I posted were different books (with similar themes), but they turned out to be just different font sizes.

>>7093
Turns out you need to make an account to post a link, and the torrent for it is down. Sorry about that m8.

>>7081

Great question!

>>7082
>>7085
>>7086
>>7087

I thought while I read it I'll write down some notes:

Problem Mammonism:
a) international big financial powers,
b) materialism and greed
=> Direct opposite of socialism

Socialism:
- highest moral idea
- every man has duties toward the community, toward all humanity and their future


Proposed solution: Abolition of interest on money


Biggest problems are loans:
o 20:1 loans:equity
o 12:1 debt payments:dividends
o average profitability of stock-corporations 8.21% (debt return was about 4.71%)
o loans grow exponentially while equity has a natural limit (namely that of the underlying company)
=> The problem isn't capital but loans!
o nationalizying/socializing all entrepreneurial profit would be laughable compared to the financial burdens which come from socialization


Opens the possibility to repeal all taxes
(financing through state-owned businesses instead)
o income generating: postal service, telegraph, telephone, railroad, mines, forests, etc.
o recipents: schools, univerities, courts, administration and social welfare
= socialism doesn't bring any blessing to humanity if its interprises rely on loans

He shows that for Bavaria the debt payments total 125 millions while taxes only amount to 113 million.
o Still doesn't want to abolish taxes
o Regulation and policing power should remain
o Business' profits and property should still be taxed
o 'Poll-tax' for voters
o Luxury taxes
=> Tax payments should be used to advance special cultural tasks (help for the disabled, daycare centers, alcoholic treatment centers, etc.) but not for core institutions

Proposed laws
- gov debt will be converted into bank credit
- Other fixed-interest debt will lose their interest payments but the principal payment still holds
- real-estate debt stays the same and the real-estate gets partly part of gov's property
- entire monetary system (all banking institutions, including credit unions and savings banks) should be under the state's central bank
- all credit comes from the state's bank
- equity securities and fixed-interest papers pay 5% annualy, excess profits are
a) payed out to stockholders
b) socially distributed
c) used to reduce prices
- For all people not able to work: they still receive their interest-incomes from their capital assets as a pension
- High taxes on gov' debt instruments
- Education on the function of money (a voucer for completed labor = exchange medium)


1/2

>>7539

Objections

- Nobody would lend money
=> Nobody should lend money anymore. People who urgently need greater capital get it interest-free at the central state treasury otherwise financing through equity

- But the state still needs money
=> Money comes from state-owned businesses

- Capitalists will accumulate paper money instead
=> Money doesn't just create revenue anymore
=> Fear of thiefery and destruction of paper money will lead to the state's bank

- A urgently private need for capital (e.g. founding of business, testing of inventions)
=> Debt is hard to get for such risky endevors
=> [Venture capital]

- Abolition of interests lead to the exhaustion of wealth
=> Yes. 20 years @ 5% annualy is possible afterwards the wealth is exhausted.
=> [Dividend payments]

- How does the worker profit if the capitalists pay no more interest?
=> The worker has to bear the payments, so lower taxes and lower cost of living

- The family suffers if one can leave no wealth behind for the children
=> Money hasn't much to do with families

- The state cannot renounce its obligations
=> The state didn't act thoughtfully when it acquired those debts

- Abolition of interest must be done internationally otherwise we'll lose all credit and capital will flow away
=> Why should we be as stupid as our neighbours?

- The whole idea only amounts to a protection of capital. The poor stay poor the rich rich.
=> Surprised that it comes from a communist.
1. The socialist will: elevation of the working class -> he agrees
2. However, the actions are wrong because they are based on false assumptions
3. The [Marxist] socialist idea of the state leades necesarrily to Communism and thus to declide
=> The big problem is to recognize the difference between debt and equity!

- Abolition of interest destroys thrift and people end up in the poorhouse
=> Thrift and wastefulness are human qualities which are present or not
=> These qualities aren't influenced by interest

- Is big capital really so unfruitful? Has it not created the means of large-scale progress?
=> No. All capital is accumulated labor. Capital itself is unproductive.

Further Program

- Socialization without the abolishing of interest leads to giant conglomerate which are still controlled by big financial powers through debt

2/2

>>7081
How about future economics that discard failed capitalism.