048fcb No.1207
I'm so sick of these fucking people saying shit like "I'm gonna go do some C++" or "what programming language do i need to learn to be able to suck cock professionally?"
So many fucking ignorant wannabes with absolutely no ability to think for themselves.
Just like in 'real life', THE LANGUAGE YOU SPEAK HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT YOU ARE ABLE TO EXPRESS. It has to do with your experience and how you use it to connect to the world around you.
platform > language
The point of the software is to interface with the hardware. Hardware comes with its own interfaces to support this. Any language you use is going to have to interface with these interfaces in the same exact fucking way. Whatever path gets you closest to the functionality you NEED (but not necessarily want) from the hardware is the best path. People go into projects with all these horrible fucking ideas about what it needs to be and look like and end up making some completely impractical, shallow, vision-less shit.
There is literally no good software written anywhere. This phenomenon of dysfunctional engineering rife with "bugs" is not tolerable if humans are to progress as a race.
Because dainty faggots need some one to do most/all of any given workload for them, we have this endless bloat of APIs, engines, etc. with absolutely no creative vision, which is the main cause of the endless array of useless, meaningless, shit products polluting our lives.
Be a real fucking person, think for yourself or kill yourself
dcc132 No.1209
Seems that you are golden for embed programming. In your mentality of interfacing bare-bones, I sense a lot of repetition, contrary to the Unix way.
>There is literally no good software written anywhere.
Care to give an example of the less shitty software you know.
I'm not expert in this area, so feel free to interject me. My field is industrial automation. However, I like programming, and some programming books I love, teach useful ways to resolve problems that are better understandable in X language, say Lisp. I was going to ask something else but I can't catch the point of this rant.
048fcb No.1210
>>1209Simple point: the state of software development as an industry is in absolute disarray. Capitalism is the antithesis of scientific progress. Humanity's precious resource of gifted engineers is being wasted by the businesses that control them. Instead of working together, they work against each other.
So we have all of these competing technologies that do the same exact task….that aren't well designed at all.
'Computer science' is a new art that has had a bunch of fucking douche bags with tiny dicks trample all over it with their malformed ideas of what correct thinking is. They think and they want you to think that it's a new art, when there is hardly anything new about it beyond some superficialities.
The fucking 'rat race' is not the environment people require for the absolute concentration that is required for doing good work. The attitude that "no one is perfect" and "working hard never pays off" is killing all progress.
0dc1c2 No.1213
>>1210 this.
programmers are forced to constantly reinvent the wheel in too little time because shitty companies don't share their discoveries.
all those manhours wasted, it's unbelievable.
if we had basic income so people can freely collaborate on whatever they find useful and interesting we'd have computers and roboters and software advanced enough to make virtually all manual labour superfluous.
but instead programmers are forced to work on projects they don't like and which everyone knows are doomed to fail but someone somehow managed to convince someone to provide funding so it'll be worked on until funding runs out. funding, which eventually will be paid one way or another by society, except that the profits, should there be any, will go mostly into very few pockets.
not sure what to make of the OP though.
0bbf7b No.1221
>>1210doesn't free software helps on these goals you mention?
048fcb No.1222
>>1221Maybe. Free as in freedom? Or free as in garage sale? Free as in freedom software is basically tending a small fire in an extreme blizzard. There is absolutely no hope of them ever making a change by setting an example. It takes violence to stop violence, Ghandi can sit on a dick.
Free as in open source software is just plain fucking retarded. I'm pretty sure it's an idea that corporate business powers implanted in the weak minds of hippies. People working under this hideous paradigm who end up making something halfway good will end up having innovated for corporate business anyway. It saves them the trouble of reverse engineering.
Indeed open source or closed source probably makes no difference these days; anyone who shows any work that is good will have their source stolen through the endless array of backdoors in every personal computer system. Call me a tinfoil-capped fool, but there are backdoors designed in all processors, chipsets, operating systems, commercial software, and most APIs. Not to mention the possibilities of side-channel surveillance (through EM radiation, through power line useage, etc.). If you have something really good that some one with a lot of money doesn't know how to make, be assured that the source for it will be promptly stolen and be used to mitigate the profit you are able to 'steal' form the corporate business powers.
There's really only one thing to do…arrest, try, execute and imprison all rich people…lol
b5f1cd No.1235
Most open source shit is terribly designed anyway. See GLib/autohell/anything GNU…
muh cat-v
28d470 No.1238
>>1222 cool story bro but an exponentially increasing number of people cares about their privacy and the security of their computers so there'll always be FOSS.
and if you want to imprison rich people for being rich rather than merely starting to tax them properly I suggest you create your own country somewhere.
72bf8c No.1240
So… what if you want to learn C++ or have a job?
048fcb No.1244
>>1238It's exactly the exponential rate of 'awareness' that give it away as a farce. People are just copying what other people say. They do not have the will or the technical knowledge to act on their 'concerns'. They will always depend on some one else to manage their affairs for them, because they are slaves. As for the tiny minority that understand the problem, what of them? FOSS isn't changing anything. All they can do is make copies of existing technology that are supposedly clean. You can't sell that to the masses, so you can't make any money, so you can't get any power to make a tangible change.
We should indeed tax the rich properly. We are going to make them pay in the currency they deal with most: the time of men.
You suggest I create a country somewhere? I choose here.
048fcb No.1245
>>1240C++ is probably the best language. In my opinion it is by far the best. You have to choose some language to express your ideas. If you want a job, that seems pragmatic. But then you're likely to fall into the same trap that almost everyone falls into: you will become complacent with your salary and cease to do (or never start doing) anything actually beneficial to society. You will let your potential fall to the side as you are rewarded, well so in your mind, for true mediocrity.
You think that having a job is a solution to your problems. It's not. It's a mechanism for trading your old problems for new ones.
At some point almost all men must work under another. Choose a good man doing good work to work under, and never preclude yourself from becoming the top man yourself. But as I've implied, it is not the time to work for the sake of the art itself. It's time to work for the sake of the freedom of all men. Most if not all of the world's population is enslaved. The people capable of intelligence must not become distracted, because everyone else is depending on them to make a change in the world.
c1535f No.1259
048fcb No.1260
>>1259
>>>/suckingdickforaliving/ 9adbf0 No.1282
>>1207>Be a real fucking person, think for yourself or kill yourselfI'll start by not caring what you think. Thanks for the tip, anon!
048fcb No.1286
>>1282What retarded monkey piece of shit you must be. Clearly what I said has provoked some thought in you. What do you do instead of join the conversation? You reduce the topic, judge the speaker, and make what you assume is a clever remark. You are an absolute waste. Keep on not caring. Do not care about anything. Stop caring about so many things that you stop caring about eating food and drinking water. Then stop caring about breathing.
You motherfucking piece of shit
c1535f No.1289
>>1286>>1207http://8ch.net/prog/rules.html"stay on topic"
This isn't really a proggramming thread.
58a3f0 No.1304
>>1289Actually it is. The fact a large percentage of novice programmers think that the way they develop their skill set is by memorizing more languages' syntax is programming related.
Op, I feel you. If you can use one OOP language, you can use any of them. Same goes with functional. Being able to solve problems effectively is the hard part - and it's frustrating how many posts I see that consist of "I wrote a program in C#, now that I'm an expert, what language should I learn next". If you don't know the damn data structures and language-independent paradigms your worthless.
A good programmer can just look up the basic data types and control structure syntax for a given language and use it without having to "learn" anything - as long as they know the underlying concepts (i.e. if you only know OOP, then functional programming will require some learning to get proficient).
4a88ce No.1309
>>1304wax on, wax off
A programmer needs to learn what is possible and how to write before they can write. Tge problem is that it takes a moderately long time so programmers are typically autists as, for some reason, normies have a short attention span and need instant gratification.
Just tell the kids to program in Python and then go to C.
9adbf0 No.1312
>>1286>Clearly what I said has provoked some thought in you.How is that clear?
>You reduce the topic, judge the speaker, and make what you assume is a clever remark.How did I judge you? What makes you assume that I assume what I said is clever?
>You are an absolute waste. Keep on not caring. Do not care about anything. Stop caring about so many things that you stop caring about eating food and drinking water. Then stop caring about breathing.Well, since you couldn't stop me from thinking, I appreciate you giving me permission to think. Shall I start checking in with other portions of my life to make sure you're okay with those as well?
>>1289I rather disagree in principle. However, the OP is a raging tool and that is clearly the more present discussion. I do agree that discussion about the OP is not programming. The topic presented in the OP was probably fair game.
476941 No.1371
>>1207
>THE LANGUAGE YOU SPEAK HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT YOU ARE ABLE TO EXPRESSYou're probably some spic who's made your primary language is a Spanish or something equally disgusting and harmful to the human ear.
d0f9c0 No.1405
>>1207>Just like in 'real life', THE LANGUAGE YOU SPEAK HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT YOU ARE ABLE TO EXPRESS. It has to do with your experience and how you use it to connect to the world around you.But it has everything to do with what you're willing to express.
Feel like writing monadic parsers in C?
How about hashed quadtrees in assembly.
Probably not gonna happen.
048fcb No.1408
>>1405wow what horrible points
you attempt to assert that some languages have already done some work for you and it's better to take advantage of this
a good language only does the work that mostly everyone mostly always needs done
faggots of course like some one to do all their work for them.
hence the incredible bloat of gay languages.
all just a bunch of faggots making tools to appeal to even bigger faggots who have no real idea what they're doing….
I JUST NEED TO BE ABLE TO MAKE THIS THING ALL THAT MATTERS IS THAT I GET IT DONE IT DOESNT MATTER HOW
Unless you have one project that will completely achieve your purpose in life, having this attitude is suicide. You need to develop yourself so that replicating the groundwork is effortless. You need to keep your mind and skills in shape, otherwise you become a fat retarded faggot who needs a bunch of libraries to do anything and you start coding in python and java and then, well, you might as well just kill yourself
459df5 No.1434
sage
459df5 No.1435
>>1207What an absolutely retarded thread. Maybe OP will eventually grow up
048fcb No.1444
>>1435I disagree, this is an interesting thread, OP seems to have a worthwhile perspective
1e8c4d No.1446
>>1444Yes, but it's extremist. His point is naive at best and demonstrates an lack of understanding for language design principles and motivations. Sure, the programmers who can't look things up and make their own decisions are a nuisance and should probably not be in the field, but a variety of languages /is/ important. Should we all just write our own libraries in machine code? I think that's a waste of time.
048fcb No.1447
>>1446Maybe the scene needs some extremism in a certain dose.
I agree with OP mostly. Computer science is really just the art of describing consciousness. A programming language is just the tool for writing out the description. The process of description shouldn't be dependent on the language at all. The language should always be dependent on the process of description.
People focus on the language and the coding and the structures and the techniques, but this simple fact of computer science being nothing but the study of consciousness at its heart is completely overlooked.
1e8c4d No.1448
>>1447You're arguing against what I'm arguing against. The OP said that there shouldn't be multiple languages, and that everyone should just program in the lowest-level language, which is a moronic idea. Yes, languages should mirror the nature of their niches. That last sentence of yours was ambiguous and vague and you should try fleshing it out more if you expect a coherent response.
048fcb No.1449
>>1448you are having some reading comprehension issues and possibly some technical comprehension issues
that isn't remotely what OP said or what we're talking about here
I am saying something very simple: computer science is just people thinking about how they think and describing it by writing it down in such a way that other people can understand it and also so that the thought process can be simulated with a computer system
048fcb No.1450
I don't get how anyone thinks I'm talking about assembly language in all cases. That's a retarded idea that only a retard would get from what I'm saying.
C++ is absolutely the best language for one simple reason: Bjarne Stroustrup is NOT a retarded faggot. He keeps a broad perspective mediates the demands of vastly different parties. Sure C++ has some features that a lot of people would question, but in general this is NOT because of a flawed design, but because of the necessity to make compromises due to the politics involved with maintaining a language that everyone uses for everything. Faggots use C++ and it has affected the language. This is real life. But so far it has been for the greater good. Almost all of the best programmers are united by their usage and support of C++, but also there are a ton of faggots.
C and C++ do are very good job of simplifying the process of coding in assembly while maintaining close to 1:1 functionality in all respects. This is the main reason they are the best >language<. That's right, they are pretty much the same >language<. Bitchy faggots like to argue about C or C++ being better (Linus Torvalds) but it doesn't fucking matter. They can both be used more or less EXACTLY THE SAME WAY plus or minus some superficialities.
1e8c4d No.1451
>>1450How do you manage to breathe oxygen? Please stay away from my languages with goals in mind that aren't low-level 3rd-gen development. The power of Christ compels you.
1e8c4d No.1452
>>1450What's the point of Haskell?
fe3ac7 No.1461
>>1450You will never be a successful language designer.
048fcb No.1464
>>1451>>1461I will rewrite these comments in a much better language called RealTalk:
I am a huge faggot please rape me in the face
AND
I am a huge faggot please rape me in the face
Never mind making a point, just shitpost
>>1452that is a really good question
I think it's to attempt to show off one's 'intellect' and 'mental flexibility' in lieu of achieving anything that is beneficial to the art.
Basically C/C++ is a near-perfect interface to machine language. Everything else is frilly pointless bullshit
1e518a No.1465
>>1450>tfw you also took the red pill>>1464C# is better for rapid prototyping, C++ has the circular include problem and cpp/h separation and while it might seem babby mode to get rid of those, they makes work most of the time so why is it there?
bad961 No.1466
>>1464You don't know Haskell. Nor Idris. Sure, C/C++ are fast. Sure, they're Turing-complete. So are Haskell and Idris, but they have different goals in mind and are better suited to a lot of problems that C and C++ aren't. Rust has a lot of features that C/C++ lack that make programming in it a lot safer and more efficient.
048fcb No.1467
>>1466why not elaborate instead of making vague claims about specific subjects??????
817a77 No.1489
>>1207>Just like in 'real life', THE LANGUAGE YOU SPEAK HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT YOU ARE ABLE TO EXPRESSyeah it does. german is definitely the best language for giving commands. hitler wouldn't have been nearly as successful if he was some french speaking faggot
9adbf0 No.1586
>>1444Should've seen the obvious samefagging before IDs were enabled.
e24add No.1676
>>1210Free competition (capitalism) doesn't seem too bad for software, but we live under corporate fascism.
2f893f No.1677
>>1489Reminder that Napoleon was more succesful.
2f893f No.1678
>>1207Hmhm, nice shit n stuff, OP.
>5 minutes later>Which is the most important language to learn in web dev? How do I start. 10aa5a No.1696
>>1678no one is born knowing how to program, pal
46ad66 No.1723
Hey OP, Scala is great too
You can do imperative or OOP or functional or mix it up
Some libraries let you do declarative
67fd9c No.3196
>>1304
>>1309
As a kid just starting with computer science how do you suggest my general attitude should be towards learning programming?
What common mistakes should I avoid?
3b544a No.3207
>>1245
C++ is a pile of shit.
If anybody here absolutely has to learn it then Stanford has some C++/OOP courses for free so you won't hang yourself with complexity https://see.stanford.edu/Course#Introduction to Computer Science
C++ was designed so corporations could hire shitty mid tier devs and split up their work into modules. John Carmack recently has been doing everything in Racket including game programming and writing an http server. According to his twitter he literally threw out all his C++ junk tools and his productivity increased by significant factors switching to Racket, which allows for rapid protyping.
But OP's complaint is people solely getting into programming for money to get a slot at some corporation. If this is your goal you'll just be another mediocre programmer
2d6fc8 No.3224
>>1696
>>1678
You two should kiss.
a8cea6 No.3428
>>1207
Gr8 b8, got a lot of fish.
dfc173 No.3436
>>1207
>Just like in 'real life', THE LANGUAGE YOU SPEAK HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT YOU ARE ABLE TO EXPRESS
You are retarded, and you obviously don't speak multiple languages. There are a lot of languages that have ideas that can not be expressed directly in any other language.
Try to do anything in MUMPS and you'll realize that language has a lot to do with everything.
>>3428
Why did you resurrect a month-dead shitpost thread?
aa19c1 No.3557
>>1207
If they ask you that just point them towards the most popular language. They obviously are in it for the money…
979b6e No.3616
>>3196
Not an experienced programmer at all but, I assume enjoying programming wether it be by OPs standards or your own is more than enough. I means that's my reason and its the only reason I'm not shying away from complicated maths. Be determined to learn and all that normie encouragement shit.
d440d2 No.3648
Some great points made by op.
A few takeaways:
- The platform is more important than the language, learn the platform and the language becomes less important. This is very true. How many "web developers" do I work with who don't have even the slightest understanding of the HTTP protocol, RFC 2616
-You don't have to learn every possible programming language to be smart. In fact, most languages can take a lifetime to master. Better to pick one and specialize in it.
Also, shitty companies focus on trendy technology. Stay away from trendy tech and you'll generally avoid a lot of bad companies.
Also, programming languages aren't "technologies" they are mathematical notations. Don't by the hype of anyone telling you that programming languages are technologies and should be "changing constantly."
c8a49c No.3686
>Just like in 'real life', THE LANGUAGE YOU SPEAK HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT YOU ARE ABLE TO EXPRESS. It has to do with your experience and how you use it to connect to the world around you.
in real life if you speak an african native language you can't express specific large numbers, specific shapes, arithmetic relations, or specific times.
asian languages have no word for "I"
I'm sure you're a great programmer but linguistics is not your field.
845153 No.3703
I'm glad that when I started programming, I didn't have internet and just had Basic on a CD. All these debates would have prevented me from actually getting shit done.
Programming is a religion for many people, but it doesn't have to be. The best thing to do is just not read anything about programming on the internet ever again. Just do your shit, and that's it.
5f533b No.3713
>>3686
>asian languages have no word for "I"
Both Chinese and Japanese have a word for "I". Be more specific or I call bullshit.
7e6575 No.3718
>>3713
It's just /pol/ jokes about niggers being dumb and Asians being a hivemind.
Funnily enough, not even English has words for complex geometrical shapes. We use latin for that, and more often than not they are just formed by sticking two words together (icosahedron = twenty bases). It just sounds "smarter" because it's a single long word in a language we don't know.