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/r9k/ - ROBOT∞

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/eris/ - Wherein Is Explained Absolutely Everything Worth Knowing About Absolutely Anything.

November 2018 - 8chan Transparency Report
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File: 38c68c5466aa328⋯.jpg (241 KB, 500x400, 5:4, gas.jpg)

 No.267963

Why do many of the signs for fuel have the gas price colored red and the diesel price colored green? Red means stop and green means go, so should we stop buying gas and encourage truckers to buy more diesel? I only noticed this after moving from one city to the suburbs of another city.

 No.267967

>>267963

Autism summarized in a single post.


 No.268003

Cool thread. I'll speculate that red is associated with gas because modern EPA-mandated gas cans are red (used to be unpainted grey metal or army green/brown/black AFAIK). They're red because gasoline is dangerous to store (flammable, explosive, toxic fumes). Diesel is much safer in storage, cans are typically yellow, but I suppose gas stations use green for contrast.


 No.268014

>>267963

In this particular case I suspect it is because the diesel is more expensive. People tend to prefer green things because red is "stop". So if you drive a diesel and just glance at the signpost you don't notice the price discrepancy because your brain filters out the red stuff.

Next time you see one, try to focus your attention on both of the numbers at once. You'll find that your brain wants to look at either all the red crap (there is usually more than 1 type of petrol where I live, at least) or all the green crap but not both at once.


 No.268052

Is diesel better than gas? I always wondered why diesel is an option when all the cars are gas. Why are there only diesel trucks and trains?


 No.268058

Red and green are the two most distinguishable colours due to our hunter gatherer based evolution. Where we were looking for red fruits among green leaves.


 No.268060

>>268052

Are you fucking serious? You've never heard of diesel cars?


 No.268061

>>268060

>Are you fucking serious? You've never heard of diesel cars?

They dont have many diesel cars outside the EU because its a very dirty fuel source.

Its mostly an EU thing. Where the EU pretended diesel was better to push European cars on everyone.

Recently its been revealed that they were systematically cheating the emissions tests.


 No.268121

>>268061

You mean the Germans in VW. "The EU" isn't a country, though the bureaucrats in Brussels sure seem to want it to be.

>>268052

Diesel is more energy dense and less volatile. It is used in engines where the fuel is ignited by compression rather thank spark plugs. This means it's torque-ier, has better volumetric fuel efficiency, the engine tends to be more rugged and the fact that diesel fuel is actually an oily substance it has self-lubricating properties.

Diesels are better for anything requiring high torque, low RPM but they're also more reliable and can be made more fuel efficient if done right. Many if not most cars in Europe are turbocharged diesels nowadays because that's the optimum solution for sufficient power, torque, fuel efficiency, manufacture and maintenance costs.


 No.268123

>>268121

this. surprisingly insightful post, featuring accurate terminology, concise knowledgeable conclusion.

Best post in years. Thanks anon


 No.268151

>>268121

>You mean the Germans in VW. "The EU" isn't a country, though the bureaucrats in Brussels sure seem to want it to be.

And French cars like Peugeot and Citroen. They pushed the diesel thing more than the German companies even.

The point is, the car companies convinced the EU that diesel was cleaner than petrol. So it was enforced through EU regulations and they got to sell a lot of cars because people believed they were being clean.

Nobody outside the EU was stupid enough to believe that.

>>268121

>Diesel is more energy dense and less volatile

Petrol has a higher calorific content than diesel.


 No.268152

>>268151

>clean

Can mean a lot of different things. The particular metric of "cleanness" the euros violated was Nitrogen Oxide emissions, which are not controlled as tightly in the EU. Nitrogen Oxides form when you burn lean mixtures at very high temperatures, which is what forced induction diesels do. There are many who think the American NOx regulations are what they are to favour American-made petrol cars over Euro import turbodiesels. I don't have any horse in this race myself, but you're just regurgitating things you haven't bothered to research fully.

>gasoline has higher calorific content

Yes, but you don't pay for fuel by the pound/kilogram, you pay for it by the gallon/liter. And your fuel tank is volume-limited. So what we care is volumetric energy density - units of energy per unit of volume. Calorific content is units of energy per unit of mass. Gasoline is substantially less dense than diesel and therefore has lower volumetric energy density (36mj/l for diesel vs 32mj/l for gas).


 No.268153

>>268152

>Clean Can mean a lot of different things

I mean clean in terms of doing less harm to peoples health.

According to government statistics 640 premature deaths per year in my country are linked to car engine emissions. If diesel emissions were on par with those released by petrol cars, the figure drops to 110.


 No.268156

>>268153

Sure, but my point is that diesels are used for a reason. It's not some sort of EU scam pushing a dirty engine as a clean alternative, and people don't buy them because they are "clean". Fuel is generally quite a lot more expensive in Europe than it is in the US so diesels are much more competitive in our market. Purchasing a car is always a balancing act between many variables such as up front cost, performance, comfort, fuel expenses, maintenance expenses, etc. Diesels are generally somewhat more expensive up front but this is offset by the savings on fuel in many places. Diesel engines are also simply more efficient than petrol engines due to their design, and thus produce less overall emissions, though there is a higher percentage of more nasty shit like the aforementioned NOx in said emissions.

It's a complex topic, but you seem hell bent on framing it as some sort of boomer patriotism USA vs EU issue.


 No.268164

>>268156

>you seem hell bent on framing it as some sort of boomer patriotism USA vs EU issue.

Its more of a EU vs the rest of the world issue. They slashed the tax on diesel within the EU and kept increasing the taxes on petrol. Using environmentalism as the rational behind it. Thats why we took it up while the entire rest of the world didnt.

I remember my mechanic friend 30 years ago saying that Diesel was not cleaner than petrol and this whole thing would end badly.

Now we are getting put to shame in air quality not just by the USA but by the whole world.


 No.268165

File: eebfd29f8b25b13⋯.png (1.75 MB, 750x1334, 375:667, disgust.png)

>>268151

What in the goddamn even is this spacing, nigger?


 No.268171

>>268164

>Now we are getting put to shame in air quality not just by the USA but by the whole world.

Yeah I'm pretty sure fucking China puts our air quality to shame.


 No.268207

>>268121

I'm a noob when it comes to cars but diesel seems like it's so much better than gasoline, even in normal consumer cars. There's hardly any price difference in $/mile and the vehicles have only slightly higher msrp. Supposedly the diesel engines are cheaper to maintain and last longer too. Why don't people use diesel more, is it just inertia?


 No.268347

>>268207

There are a few downsides like diesel fuel gels in cold weather while gasoline stays liquid and DPF filters get clogged if you only drive short trips.


 No.268415

>>268207

If you drive in the city then its cheaper per mile to have a petrol. If you do a lot of interstate driving then diesel is cheaper.

Petrol engines are actually easier to maintain due to their simplicity. And due to the car being lighter it suffers much less general wear and tear on things like the tires and running gear.

The engine has much higher rotating inertia. Which is a huge contributor to efficiency when you are starting and stopping all the time. Obviously a lighter car is more nimble and handles better, if you care about that.

If you are mostly driving on the highway at a constant speed away from large populations of people then diesel is certainly worth considering.


 No.268470

>>268058

What about colourblind people


 No.268598

>>268470

They are the work of the devil.


 No.269003

>>268121

How to learn more car autism? I dont understand the logic chains you've made. Why does no sparkplugs mean more torque for example


 No.269004

>>268153

What does on par even mean? What do the spacings mean?


 No.269005

I heard you can run vegetable oil in a diesel engine? Is this true? How does thst work? And what happens if you mix fuels and can it be undone?


 No.269044

>>268164

>I remember my mechanic friend 30 years ago saying that Diesel was not cleaner than petrol and this whole thing would end badly.

Well, that's obviously a complicated topic, but if you use biodiesel, isn't it infinitely better than gasoline, being carbon-neutral?

>>268347

>diesel fuel gels in cold weather while gasoline stays liquid

Don't modern cars have battery-powered heaters?

>>268415

What about this argument that because compression ratios are higher in diesel, the materials must be sturdier to withstand it, therefore it ends up being more durable overall?

>>269005

It is true. I'm a noob but it seems like basically the diesel compresses the air in the cylinder a lot as part of its stroke. This increases temperature enough for oil to ignite. Because it's a purely temperature based effect (rather than a spark) even relatively dirty fuel oils will work. In fact, the diesel oil you buy at the gas station is just an artificial uber oil made by mixing petroleum components.

Dirty oils however have slightly worse mileage (10-20% so not really a big deal) and clog up the filter more. Otherwise yes you can put pretty much any oil in there, even leftover fry grease from McDs. It's the same thing as the "intended" diesel fuel, just slightly lower quality. If you mix shit oil with good diesel you just get medium quality fuel that's half as bad as the oil.


 No.276983

The lights are all green for gas in us burbs (seen some mobils and GPs in my visit). But in leafland all the prices are red, gas and diesel. Guess it different depending on the location


 No.277055

So diesel is more expensive than gas in the us? Where I live diesel is the cheapest.


 No.279352

ITT kids who dont know what diesel is


 No.279359

>>268121

Came here to say roughly this, but this anon said it far better anyway, so I'll just be taking my fedora on the way out


 No.279407

>>267963

I think it's because red and green LEDs are easy to see in low light.


 No.279408

>>269003

More room in the cylinder meaning more space for the connecting rods to travel and torque is magnified by the distance work is being done over.


 No.279410

>>268165

>>>/reddit/ has come back again it seems. But it's okay anon they'll leave once summer is over. Hopefully.


 No.279480

>>279410

Summer is over. I don't know when school starts where you're at but my little brother started school last week.


 No.279538

>>268052

Diesel was designed to run on newly made oil and should replace fossil fuels but corrupt capitalism keeps people buying oil, and the cars tie in with that that use the oil. You can bullshit about it being for heavier vehicles, of which an anon already has, everyone knows that, but more gears and it can go faster so it's just bullshit. Diesel is shit for milage because they make them into tank tier vehicles and just load literal tons of shit on them to keep them in production whilst pretending you can't just make the engine parts smaller to get better milage. It's like people don't know how fucking gears work or something.


 No.280050

>>279538

Tell us this gear autism


 No.280103

>>280050

You've confirmed my theory that people don't know how gears work, thank you.


 No.280204

>>280103

You are welcome, can you enlighten us on this important facet of knowledge?


 No.280259

File: 6228041df09c260⋯.jpg (66.45 KB, 640x660, 32:33, 1478004874783.jpg)

>>280204

I'm not about to explain how an engine works. Just look up basic geometry. A large gear turned by some slow powerful machine would not go fast, but cars all have gears, of course. The smaller gear attached to a larger one spins faster due to being smaller, so it can be shaped to spin the axel faster of which spins the wheels faster. The slower the first gear is the more small gears you could add, it matters not. Still shit millage? The thing is too strong anyway, make it smaller if it's just a tiny car, smaller, CC, less CC less fuel needed. Less horses to feed that you wouldn't need anyway. The only real issue is filters if you were to use fry oil to run the engines. The filters are problematic I gather. This is all pretty much common sense but no one cars because old southern money that struck oil controls too much of the world.


 No.280260

>>280259

cares* not cars

Commas in wrong places but fuck whatever.


 No.280379

>>280259

Explain it


 No.280426

File: 75949160e10c71a⋯.jpg (28.7 KB, 599x453, 599:453, 1479431776369.jpg)

>>280379

>explain how combustion engines work XD

You're on the fracking Internet, just look it up.


 No.280440

>>280426

I ask you like i ask thr googles so it counts as looking it up


 No.280443

>>280440

>using jewgle

One day I'll go postal I will.

Literally such things are explained on wikipedia. You just https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine then click on anything that you don't know what is then apply critical thinking skills to determine as to why we don't make them smaller and replace petrol. Old southern money that loves oil is why if you ask me. Even if we did convert, the tires on cars are cured with oil. The machine parts around the world are oiled with fossil fuels. Even baby oil is made of fossil fuels, as mineral oil is made in a similar manner as petroleum jelly is, from, petrol, of which comes from oil. Is it sustainable for future gens? No. Is it healthy? No. But smear the mineral oil all over yourself, that's why we don't use diesel. Because we're fucking stupid and controlled by rich people that had oil well money passed down that they stole from the Natives and even a year or two ago they invaded their land yet again to tap an oil reserve their no man's land was on. Wars are waged over it for no reason other than le powers that be can't fucking evolve to use something fucking else. Lets be friends with fucking sand niggers that are stuck in the middle ages, why not? They have oil. Lets fuck around because old people are going to die anyway and are in charge so who cares about wars or cancer because XD

t. USA perspective of course

Anywho, ignition of the combustible chemicals causes pressure, you can use that to make pistons move, then attach levers then gears and things to the pistons. It's not that complicated. Fuel can be injected to like a steamer be externally combusted. You can take a normal gas engine and attach a hose to the spark plug area, and then pressure makes the pistons move. Can you not look up diagrams of pistons? The point is we don't need to use petrol regardless. Tons of things can be used to ignite to make pressure to move the pistons. Wood alcohol is used for machinery as it is today. You can use vegetable oil if not alcohols. But instead, nope, oil instead because it cuts manufacturing time, despite it being still expensive.


 No.280474

>>279538

>Diesel is shit for milage because they make them into tank tier vehicles

Where are you getting this? Even normies consider diesels as being higher mileage. The main stated consumer objections are cost, diesel pumps being less common (retarded reason but normies believe it), and being more polluting (again retarded but normies believe). Also 90% of car buyers have lemming mentality so they buy whatever their friends have, which happens to be gas.

For instance take 2018 F-150, I believe the diesel version gets 30+ mpg, and can go 850 mi on 24 gal tank. Already not bad, but for a shit bloated vehicle like nu150 this is phenomenal performance. Meanwhile the gas version of same model has only 650 mi range IIRC. The catch is apparently that diesel option is only available in upscale trims, so it costs you a minimum of 48k to get it.

There are other brands that have affordable diesels though. I drive a gas car myself because I bought it used and I didn't see any good used diesels within my budget at the time. But if for some reason I was buying new, I would definitely get diesel.


 No.280499

I'm an oldfag and I actually know the answer to this!

A long time ago, almost no gas stations in the US sold diesel. And no cars were sold in the US that burned it. There were a few trucks, but if you had one of those trucks, you had to go to a truck stop near an interstate to buy fuel - you couldn't buy it in town.

During this time, gas pumps could be whatever color. Also during this time, gas station companies tried to market themselves as having a different product than the guy right next door - even though that wasn't at all true, all the gas was exactly the same. They were trying to get brand loyalty. There were actually commercials on TV for gas stations.

…and, since gas pumps could be whatever color, the marketing people started coloring the pumps to match their advertising. So you'd go to a gas station and there'd be a black pump, a silver pump, and a gold pump - and they'd have brand names like "Texico Superfuel" (I can't remember any of the actual names, but they sounded like that).

In the 1990s, car makers started selling diesel cars in the US. Now that there was a market for diesel, gas stations started selling it. Unfortunately, most people are fucking idiots, so there was a huge problem of people putting diesel in their gas cars. The solution was that all the stations agreed to color diesel green. Why green? Simply because none of their marketing people had ever used green for any of the "brand name gas" that they had invented.

I'm 100% sure that's the reason. There's no law or industry standard forcing them to use green. It was just picked because it was an unused color.

So why is the gas price red? Well, what other color could you put on that sign that would be both distinct from the green and not overpower it? Yellow? Maybe. I think they just picked red because the diesel was green and they thought that would catch your eye.


 No.280502

>>280474

Normalfaggots are nauseating. I concur.


 No.280516

>>280499

Interesting story, thanks for posting.

>A long time ago, almost no gas stations in the US sold diesel. And no cars were sold in the US that burned it. There were a few trucks, but if you had one of those trucks, you had to go to a truck stop near an interstate to buy fuel - you couldn't buy it in town.

Since diesel is much easier to store, why didn't people just buy hundreds of gallons of it and store it in their garage?


 No.291628

>>268014

>Next time you see one, try to focus your attention on both of the numbers at once. You'll find that your brain wants to look at either all the red crap (there is usually more than 1 type of petrol where I live, at least) or all the green crap but not both at once.

Huh, so if my brain doesn't do that at all, am I weird?


 No.291691

>>280443

You know i heard its illegal to use vegetable oil/grease in diesel engines because its harder to tax. Cant escape oil politics even if you wanted to


 No.291693

>>291628

>neurotypicals

>long term investments

They are, for the most part mutually exclusive. Also from what ive seen from jewtube, people who are really into diesel tend to store oil and grease instead, as it works, albeit you'll have to maintenance the engine more i think




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