/realnews/ - REAL NEWS

>when more and more US corporations keep outsourcing jobs due to over-regulation (federal intervention / mass fines) and record taxation?

Well this is just false. Regulation is usually done with special interests and large corporations signing off and taxation is actually extremely low for these corporations in practice.

Outsourcing increases their profits, and the trade deals you've been seeing protect those profits. They're just lobbying and brainwashing people like you to give them even more.

I'm not voting for Sanders btw, but this thread just reads like the same lines given every election cycle to ensure that every bill passed helps large corporations rather than the average people. More tax breaks, subsidies, and regulatory monopolies for the rich and multinational corporations, every time. It's all the Republican party has to offer these days, which is a shame.

I'm sure you'll hear more about "trickle down" economics this cycle, as if rich people remain rich by giving away their money lol. Trickle down economics = subsidies for rich people.

>>520

I don't believe in "trickle down" economics either, never said I did. As for regulations, it's easy to get confused by what people mean in regard to what kinds of regulations they are referring to because there are so many kinds of regulations. Some regulations are good. Others are unjustified or even worse inhibit business incentives / production / and effect domestic job growth.

I was NOT referring to worker comp regulations, or regulations that protect health and safety of employees, those regulations (for the most part) are necessary.

Mostly it's environmental regulations that cause businesses to shut down production, recall products, and often bankrupt smaller businesses that can't keep up with the huge fines they are mandated to pay due to new carbon emission restrictions, new 'environmental zoning laws' (areas where businesses are no longer allowed to operate anymore), the ever increasing restrictions against the use of chemicals to mine and refine minerals (we are talking about bare basics here), etc.

So, considering all these new regulations that have been increasingly imposed the last 30+ years - why would corporations not just outsource jobs to countries like India and China were they don't have to worry about all that bureaucracy? Well, that's whats happened. If you take a look at when the EPA was established, 30+ years ago, this was around the same time that jobs started being outsourced.

Taxation has increased *domestically for businesses as well. Yet another convenient reason to move their production offshore and accounts into offshore tax havens. Simply put, the growth of bureaucracy and taxation to fund the bureaucracy decreases business incentives so all those "evil corporations" move their production elsewhere. Offshore.

India, China and Russia know damn well about this and have been laughing behind our backs the whole time welcoming these corporations into they're countries with open arms. These countries are not as dumb as you might think. Ever since these jobs have been outsourced if you look at the statistics these countries have become more wealthy and even have a slowly growing middle class of consumers in they're nations.

Now think about the consequences of all of this: the United States public is still largely reliant on consumerism (to maintain the economy), what happens when all this manufacturing is outsourced to other nations that have growing consumerism in they're own nations? They become less dependent on us … while we become more dependent on them to produce "our" goods.

So was increasing bureaucracy really worth it when all is said and done? You'll soon find that out.

You keep acting like actual paid tax rates are high for big corporations and that they don't have a seat at the table with all legislation, but that's just false.

Outsourcing is good for profit. The trade deals favor big corporations. The tax code favors big corporations. Government favors big corporation.

Big government and big corporations are in a love affair. I'm sorry, but you're full of it.

>>528

Government bureaucracy typically favors the big banks, and major international corporations that have politicians in they're back pockets. Not so much small businesses or other productive industries that provide middle class jobs. This is where you might be confused and I'll try to clarify my previous comment. Also note that on a routine basis governments *selectively enforce the laws when it's in they're interests. Take for instance what has happened here: >>440

Outsourcing is good for profit. Yes, that was my point. The core issue I was pointing out was *WHY that is. The domestic tax code does not favor corporate profits (or the average worker for that matter), nor do the regulations favor corporate profits. So, to maintain profits, they outsource jobs and set up offshore accounts so they can dodge US taxes. They lack incentives here to make more profits. What inhibits business incentives? Too much bureaucracy, fines and taxation inhibits business incentives. I've done my best to explain this here >>521

All I'm saying that too much government is not such a good thing for the American economy. Again note the fact that I admit that the government will often selectively enforce the law when they see fit. By saying that, I also agree with you that big government and big corporations are in a love affair.

>>529

Again you're just dumping political rhetoric. Subsidies usually help the large corporations much more than small businesses. Lobbyists don't want the tax code reformed, only additional tax breaks on top. That's why their effective tax rate is so low, new tax breaks will just help them, and new taxes will just go to the middle class.

Sorry, not buying into your "feel bad for big corporations and give them even more" BS. Small bizniss! Jerbs! These are just excuses. Big government helps big corporations, and the things you're listing are just the rhetoric big corps put out to get even more of the pie.

A lot of big corps don't even pay taxes btw.

Lets cut middle class programs and give them even more money!

Yeah, no.

>>530

If you read both my replies >>521 and here >>529 you would know that what I said is not "political rhetoric" in any way. I also stated "Government bureaucracy typically favors the big banks, and major international corporations that have politicians in they're back pockets. Not so much small businesses or other productive industries that provide middle class jobs." Subsidies are created by this "government bureaucracy" to help large multinational corporations not small businesses, like you said. I agree with that. You are putting words into my mouth without trying to comprehend what I've previously stated.

In no way am I attacking the middle class as you just insinuated. These selectively enforced regulatory laws and taxes are hurting smaller businesses much more so than the large corporations. Large corporations have the luxury of simply outsourcing production / jobs and moving their accounts into tax havens (tax havens, meaning they pay much less in tax offshore). What do you not understand about that?

>Sorry, not buying into your "feel bad for big corporations and give them even more" BS

I never said anything like that. Did you even read what I had to say? I simply said they benefit more outsourcing jobs than keeping jobs in the US and explained the reasons why that is. Don't keep putting words in my mouth.

>>531

If you want corporations to pay taxes here, then you have to cut back government bureaucracy which is fueling the outsourcing of jobs. If we don't cut back on some of these unnecessary (mostly harsh 'environmentalist') regulations / restrictions / fines then those corporations will simply not come back to America! They'll keep laughing at the US while producing products and jobs offshore.

>>533

>If you want corporations to pay taxes here

> then you have to

So large corporations dictate the terms on which they'll pay their taxes now?

Kek. They're making profit, they're just not paying taxes. You started this thread whining about high tax rates, but in effect they are barely paying any taxes. So then you whine about regulations, but they're making record profits so it's not about that.

So now you're saying we have to give large corporations anything they want, more free money and policy shaped entirely around their profit, in the hopes that they'll pay their fair share? Ha.

Big corps and policy being one in the same is called fascism, which is what you're suggesting. Good job on that. And they're not bringing any jobs back because outsourcing is profitable. Regulation didn't drive jobs overseas and setting more policy to favor big corps isn't going to bring them back.

>>536

So large corporations dictate the terms on which they'll pay their taxes now?

Unfortunately, yes they do in a way. Tax havens are loopholes, as I've explained. Don't be blaming me for just bluntly admitting that sad fact.

>You started this thread whining about high tax rates, but in effect they are barely paying any taxes. So then you whine about regulations, but they're making record profits so it's not about that.

I'm just saying they are outsourcing due to stupid, corrupt and incompetent government bureaucracy.

>So now you're saying we have to give large corporations anything they want, more free money and policy shaped entirely around their profit, in the hopes that they'll pay their fair share?

NO. I did not say that, I said we need to cut the stupid and corrupt government bureaucracy at least just a bit, because they are fueling this problem - NOT helping it in any way.

>Regulation didn't drive jobs overseas

Wrong. Too much regulation did play a big part as well as increasing *domestic (DOMESTIC!) taxation. Also, unfortunately slave labor exploited offshore saves corporations money too. Small companies eventually go out of business, and large corporations outsource production and jobs, as we've seen the last 30+ years!

You are the one who is whining. I only posted a thread trying to expose this problem. PS: you're likely right saying we won't be getting jobs back anytime soon. Enjoy living in the third world as most Americans will be living like that within the next ten years.

>>537

>NO. I did not say that, I said we need to cut the stupid and corrupt government bureaucracy at least just a bit, because they are fueling this problem - NOT helping it in any way.

Well no, you actually suggest getting rid of any kind of oversight or protections and giving corporations free reign on the land and the economy, lowering their taxes more, and all in the name of the middle class and small businesses (an excuse).

You're using outsourcing as an excuse to push the same bad politics which have been very good for corporations. They aren't hurting. They aren't being strangled by taxes or regulations. They aren't outsourcing because of government. These are myths.

Outsourcing is profitable. Trade deals making outsourcing even sweeter is profitable. Giving them more free shit won't do anything except line their pockets. And for what? All you'll be doing is cucking the middle class, the land, the economy, and the government for private corporate interests, because you seem to believe they'll reach down and give everyone free jobs and money out of the kindness of their hearts.

Just think about the crap you're pushing. That if you let corporations get away tax-free, destroy the land, use national resources, and give less benefits, they're going to magically decide not to outsource to India, China, or anywhere else they can pay people a shit wage?

Maybe you think all Americans should be paid a shit wage because corporation interests are all that matter? kek. Because it's either that, or regulations and a reform of money in politics. Personally I like my option better, because your option doesn't leave room for a middle class or American dream.

>>539

>Personally I like my option better, because your option doesn't leave room for a middle class or American dream.

What option have you provided?