b4ed21 No.230
So what do you think comes after?
ba36bc No.231
absolutely nothing.
673006 No.233
peace
a90950 No.234
Honestly, I hope absolutely nothing. If there is some another bullshit after this, I'm going to be really upset.
Just imagine it. All the people watching you from heaven… How miserable little fuck you are. Then you arrive, big style! Such hero, much wow. They all know… They have seen everything. Now you can live happily with them forever and ever. Yay!
97158b No.235
>>234>implying suicide bring you to heaventopkek
8e06a5 No.236
After your life ends comes the same thing as before your life started. Now tell me: How heavy are those billions of years upon your shoulders?
Or is this considered pro-suicide and I should quit it?
9a3c4d No.238
>inb4 reincarnation
Just another entrance to the ride
0a919b No.239
6f4149 No.241
the ride never ends
e783a4 No.264
You don't need a body to exist. You will continue to exist exactly as you always have. You just won't be equipped with the right tools for sense input, or comprehension, or any form of output.
So basically nothing.
0f5ace No.269
Like most people here I think it's just the termination of existence. And honestly that fucking terrifies me. I have no comprehension of what it is to cease being.
51086d No.271
The mind is the product of the brain.
When the brain dies mind stops existing.
4af846 No.277
Like before you were born.
94b931 No.302
I-I don't know.
That's why I'm scared
e742c2 No.337
>mfw this is the only reason i haven't killed myself yet
Being raised in a supposedly christian home will do this to you.
I have no idea if killing myself will make me go to hell if there is one.
756122 No.351
>>337The one clear thing in the bible is that suicide=hell. Become an atheist before you kill yourself.
2ade16 No.352
>>351I don't believe in christianity but I do believe in pattern recognition. Every change you go through in life makes it worse. Growing older, starting school, finishing school, getting a car, moving out, buying a home… all of these natural transitions we go through in the course of living a normal life make things worse. Joys fade, pains magnify, responsibilities pile up. There is a general tendency in life for things to get worse and worse.
If death really is a "natural part of life" then it stands to reason that if there is anything afterward, it's even worse than this.
4c8ffc No.369
>>352Your pattern only applies to life. Death is by definition the end of life.
1ffa2d No.372
Hopefully I get to be with her.
2ade16 No.374
>>369That sounds more like hope than logic to me.
We don't know anything about existence outside of what we call "life". We don't even know if there IS one or if the same rules apply. However, we do know that nature likes to repeat themes with increasing size and complexity.
The only thing we really know for sure about death is that you don't take your body with you. And while a whole lot of what's wrong with life comes from bodies, it's certainly not the ONLY problem with it.
In short, we don't know if that pattern applies only to life or if it applies to existence in general. And we can't know until it's too late.
98ecaf No.379
>>374Everyone has a fear of death deep ingrained in them, you're just trying to justify a biological feature.
I know its hard not to be the center of the universe, by try to apply your pattern to any non-predator species and you will see how badly it goes.
Body decay is hardly an issue and pain only comes near death, not to mention most arent even capable of emotions to begin with.
Besides some species with hideous methods of childbirth, life in general is pretty consistent and only gets worse when you're on death's door.
>The only thing we really know for sure about death is that you don't take your body with you.Protip : you are a byproduct of your brain. You're not going anywhere without divine intervention.
Keep in mind that if souls exist they were specifically crafted to be indistinguishable from the chemical processes in your brain, so if you believe this or god(s) in general are a possibility you might as well kill yourself before you turn schizophrenic
for all eternity or some shit. That totally sounds like something an evil/indiferent god would let happen and those are the only two possible ones.
tl;dr Stop with the mental gimnastics to find excuses to breath. Its like being born in a dungeon and never trying to escape just because there is a slim possibility that you will get raped even harder outside.
442c0d No.465
>>337A valid thought. It's not the act of killing yourself, it's if you have a relationship with God through Jesus Christ. Try
>>>/christian/ .
9baa57 No.466
>>230There is nothing. Absolute nothingness. It's not like
>I was in a dark placeBecause that is just you thinking about things with your senses. You think it is dark because you can't see and it is quiet because you can't hear.
There is nothing. No senses at all. Complete and utter annihilation.
I've tried to kill myself several times, and succeed twice only to be revived. The last time was glorious. I just felt everything bleed away. Mind and body just stopped.
Next time I know I will succeed.
6f7fb7 No.494
I believe that somewhere out there you're still alive. It works like this. People say teleportation kills you by deleting you in one place and putting you in another because the atoms that make you would disappear. But quantum mechanics show that there is not such thing as an individual particles, and what matters are multi-particle configuration. So If you consider the current form of yourself to be "Living" then teleportation wouldn't do jack shit because you're consciousness would still be up, and you would still be the same. So if the universe is either A: Horrendously big
B:Infinite C:Big enough then somewhere out there, at some point in time, there is an exact copy of you doing the exact some thing thinking the exact same thing in some matrix world where it is impossible to die and when you die, as long as the thoughts of you two are parallel, you get sent there.
TLDR
Your brain isn't important, what's in it is
0a4fe3 No.495
>>372Hopefully I will get to BE her ;-;
0a4fe3 No.497
>>494Technically doesn't that mean that if the universe/multiverse really is infinite then for every step of existence an alternative version of yourself finds his/herself suddenly floating in a vacuum in some void X^X^X^X googleplex years into the future, only to be continually revised for all eternity via the process of random spontaneous entropy decrease, and incredible bad luck.
Likewise you'll also wake up as a little anime loli on a solar system that spontaneously burst into existence after the heat death of the universe then live out your days in the exotic blue sun having tea with your new friends.
>Boltzmann brains 45c824 No.507
I believe you get a second chance, or at least I hope you do that would be nice.
You are met by God, you are sorry, but he forgives you. You speak with him, he asks why, you answer.
He nods and says "You were in a dark place and let your demons get the better of you, didn't you my child"
"Walk with me" you are met by the people you have had the most positive effect on in life, he tells you every scenario where you chose good over evil, others over yourself.
When he is done this he turns to you and allows you to go back to any time in life and start from that point.
Then you wake up from a dream like nothing happened, you don't remember, you are just happy for the first time in a while, you are warm.
Anyway I'm religious and hell scares the crap out of me, but I feel that if people commit suicidal God forgives them
Sounds dumb i know
a24ccd No.517
>>507I've always wondered whether like…it's all part of a huge test. If so, it could go either way. I could see a God saying, "You killed yourself, pft."
I could also see one saying, "You actually lived through all that shit? I was testing to see if you had the wherewithal to rebel and kill yourself. Holy fuck, lowest of the low."
141988 No.522
I think this is the after life
fa7aab No.540
I think the mind is just a product of the complex processes of the brain, there's no detached soul or anything. So you simply cease to exist when you die, because once your brain is dead your mind cannot persist.
I wish reincarnation were real, but it's just an escapist fantasy with no logical basis.
f6ca3d No.567
I know a couple of people have mentioned this but how would you feel if there really was nothing after death? I know a lot of people find it terrifying, but personally I find it reassuring.
I don't know if it's the thought of eternal rest or just knowing that no matter how badly you fuck up or how well you do it doesn't matter in the end, but I honestly find the thought of nothingness more comfortable than any afterlife.
fd58f8 No.592
Nothing.
I don't mean "Staring at a black screen forever", I mean literally nothing.
When you think about it, it's impossible to truly comprehend what that means. Even in a pitch-dark room, you can still feel, hear, smell, etc. Think of absolutely none of that, nothing to tell you that you're still alive. Everything just stops, and you don't even know it, because you've lost the ability to comprehend anything. There's no psychedelic light show, no calming music, no feeling in your body, nothing. Just an endless nothing that you can't even understand is happening to you. That's why people fear death, because deep down we know that's the most likely outcome, and there's no way to escape it.
62ed86 No.618
Since most of the things that define us are in our brain, I'm sure we will lose all personality we had, and probably our humanity. I don't think that our soul will carry anything other than a vague memory of what we were. You just wouldn't be yourself anymore.
Other than that, I am not sure. I like to believe that without having to use your senses, all information will come to you and you will JUST GET everything. I also like to believe we will be reincarnated, but other than that, there may be just nothing.
6abfef No.621
I hope God is there. Just so I can feel my anger at him was worth it. And then he can smite me or commence yaoi-God son incest, whatever. Or reincarnation into a better life. Absolutely nothing is really hard to grasp.
f3db40 No.623
same as what was before you were born
85e23e No.625
>Implying the science of Near-Death Experiences haven't demonstrated the reality of an afterlife alreadyhttp://anti-matters.org/articles/8/public/8-8-1-PB.pdfhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwyVFW9kT8khttp://topdocumentaryfilms.com/day-i-died/This is what it will be like when you die:
http://www.broadjam.com/artists/songs.php?artistID=14702&mediaID=460764https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bw3oaNUR1iIIf you have any doubts about that, just to this and verify for yourself:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE6zvn8rHU4And to those who think you won't get there because you've done this or lived like that, see this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PX2x0FxDTsSee you in the afterlife, friends.
779b6b No.646
To be honest the only reason I consider killing myself is because I believe I cease to exist and can't accept it in any form. It keeps haunting me every fucking day being scared of not existing at all anymore.
I couldn't deal with it when I was young. I grew to accept it but last year the constant paranoia has come back and makes me wonder if I should even keep on living if I lose everything in the end. Not to mention dying will probably just be really painful and be a huge torment.
Maybe it's fucking retarded. But why even live if everything you do and learn will be all for nothing. I fucking wish the afterlife was real but science always disproved it.
63889c No.649
>>623When you die your brain releases a flood of DMT. You may just trip for what feels like eternity, hence why people have such profound near death experiences.
85e23e No.701
>>644"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
So I see you're at the second stage.
>>646
>I fucking wish the afterlife was real but science always disproved it.To the contrary, nothing in science disproves an afterlife. Admittedly, a very crude conception of an afterlife is incompatible with a scientific worldview, but a sane afterlife is not. You don't need to deny the correlations between brain states and everyday cognition in order to appreciate how it doesn't apply in the extremes. See for instance these two:
http://www.scienceandtheneardeathexperience.com/pages/Does-consciousness.pdfhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_qBIw7qyHU>>649
>When you die your brain releases a flood of DMT.That's an urban myth. The reality is that there's zero evidence to support this. None.
>hence why people have such profound near death experiences.Except that NDEs are way crazier than DMT experiences. And I say that very familiar with how DMT works and how indescribably insane it is.
Also, NDEs occur during cardiac arrests when the brain is demonstrably inactive. And yet, NDEs are remembered clearly for life, whereas DMT experiences are instantly forgotten. Additionally, there's no comedown nor psychedelic perceptions in NDEs like there is when you consume DMT.
911f6b No.719
>>701If you believe in an afterlife, that's fine. But don't try to prove it with "scientific" studies, it just makes it more ludicrous.
83e575 No.734
I've always liked the idea of being able to meet exciting historical figures. But then, what if the afterlife is like high school and all the really cool dead people won't talk to you?
83e575 No.735
I'm an atheist. I don't believe in god, at least not in any remotely traditional sense. However, whether there's something of human consciousness that transcends the veil of death isn't something I'm willing to either believe or deny. The universe is pretty weird. Quantum entanglement, the universe appearing to be composed of 97% Dark Matter & Dark Energy (or "shit we don't understand"), and so on. Maybe something endures. Maybe there's some kind of cosmic energy field into which our consciousness is woven and we can't perceive it. Or maybe there's nothing.
There's a part of me that feels absolute loathing for my existence and wants to kill me. But so long as the rest of me is in control, I don't intend to discover what does or doesn't happen to my postmortem consciousness any time soon.
af8086 No.756
nothing. there is nothing. i have been dead twice. there isn't any way to describe it. its horrible and scares the shit out of me that its going to be forever some day. there is no point in anything because once you die you're done. unless you do something great with your life that history will remember you, there is no point in life or death.
a3f9b9 No.824
How do I know you fuckers aren't shit posting from the afterlife?
f7a60c No.825
4ac83b No.828
File: 1414626036408.png (Spoiler Image, 1.8 KB, 128x128, 1:1, Amazing and impressive.png)
>>234I also hope it is nothing. I want to die because I'm not good at existing consciously, I want to become nothing, not live somewhere else.
79f6c2 No.829
Why do you faggots think something will come after you die? Because you are human? What about dogs, cats, ants and bacteria, they live, do trees or birds go to heaven?
No, because they don't have the power to think about stuff like this, they are simple creatures. Humans are complex and have the need to invent things. To secure themselves, to feel fine.
I'm 99% sure that if you die you will never ever come back to life again, no fucking way. Even if you do, and this is an extreme exageration, but even if you do come back to life it's not you anymore. The only you, is you right now at this place and in this time. What are you doing right now and what did you do before defines you, no copy of yourself will have the same experiences and live in the same world at the same time.
Remember that time before you were born? Those millions of years of nothingness? Yeah, I don't fucking think so.
Just stop it, not trying to be negative but this is actually positive. You had the chance to exist in this universe, and you have the chance to be you right now out of all the endless combinations of life, you are here so make the most of it and have fun. Because when you die it's game over, we are not special, we like to imagine because we can, but you know that nothing is gonna happen.
79f6c2 No.832
>>829Also, I didn't just mean heaven, but whatever you people imagine that there is after death. Either way these thoughts reek of hope that our imagination might be real. How many ants are in the after life? How many plants are in the afterlife?
What is this afterlife anyway? A place where humans could live again, because humanity is scared of death, so it's only natural to think about stuff like this out of fear.
85e23e No.835
>>719
>don't try to prove it with "scientific" studies, it just makes it more ludicrous.That's the whole point. As Grossman points out,
"One conclusion I have come to over the years is that both the atheist and the believer, from the fundamaterialist to the fundamentalist, share something in common. In fact, from an epistemological perspective, what they have in common is much more significant than what they disagree about. What they agree about is this: beliefs pertaining to the possible existence of a transcendent reality — God, soul, afterlife, and so on — are based on faith, not fact. If this is true, then there can be no factual evidence that pertains to such beliefs. This metabelief — that beliefs about a transcendent reality cannot be empirically based — is so deeply entrenched in our culture that it has the status of a taboo. The taboo is very democratic in that it allows everyone to believe whatever he or she wants to believe about such matters. This allows fundamaterialists to feel comfortable in their conviction that reason is on their side, that there is no afterlife, and that those who believe otherwise have fallen prey to the forces of irrationality and wishful thinking. But it also allows fundamentalists to feel comfortable in their conviction that they have God on their side, and that those who believe otherwise have fallen prey to the forces of evil. Thus, although the fundamentalist and the fundamaterialist are on opposite extremes of the spectrum of possible attitudes towards an afterlife, their extreme positions unite them as strange bedfellows in their battles against the possibility that there are matters of fact about the afterlife that empirical research might discover. The very suggestion that empirical research might be relevant to beliefs pertaining to a transcendent reality - that such beliefs are subject to empirical constraint — runs strongly against this taboo, and is hence very threatening to most elements of our culture."
The idea that whether or not there's an afterlife shouldn't be pursued from a scientific perspective is a dogma in our contemporary society.
8e06a5 No.862
>>269See
>>236Billions of years have already passed during your previous non-existence. The unknown but likely many many more years that will pass once "you" start your second and unending period of non-existence will be exactly the same. You're trying to imagine the fundamentally unimaginable.
8e06a5 No.865
>>352There's a general tendency for the living to stick to old patterns. They get wounded, and then they keep stacking wounds, which then obviously accumulate over time. Stop stacking wounds, and they will not accumulate, and perhaps the ones you have will even heal.
8e06a5 No.866
>>824How do you know you aren't?
4da3b4 No.883
Everything ceases to exist
2070d4 No.888
>>235depends on religion/denomination of the religion.
ed2dde No.1098
In all seriousness there's some reasonably compelling evidence for reincarnation.
Congratulations asshole you get another ride on the carousel.
aca69e No.1103
>>230>>230 (OP)
I've been reading Journey of Souls by Michael Newton.
"When Dr. Michael Newton, a certified Master Hypnotherapist, began
regressing his clients back in time to access their memories of former lives, he stumbled onto a discovery of enormous proportions: that it is possible to "see"into the spirit world through the mind's eye of subjects who are in a hypnotized or superconscious state; and that clients in this altered state were able to tell
him what their soul was doing between lives on Earth."
Yeah yeah, new age hippie bullshit or whatever, but decide for yourself. Here is what the book says about suicide. It starts on page 84/366.
During our session, I learned this subject had experienced a recent series of male lives, culminating with a short life as a prosecuting attorney called Ross Feldon in the state of Oklahoma during the 1880s. As Ross, my client had committed suicide at age thirty-three in a hotel room by shooting himself in the head. Ross was in despair over the direction his life had taken as a courtroom prosecutor…
Case 13
Dr. N: Now that you have left the shower of healing, where are you
going?
S: (apprehensively) To see my advisor.
Dr. N: And who is that?
S: (pause) … Dees … no … his name is Clodees.
Dr. N: Did you talk to Clodees when you entered the spirit world?
S: I wasn't ready yet. I just wanted to see my parents.
Dr. N: Why are you going to see Clodees now?
S: I … am going to have to make some kind of … accounting … of myself.
We go through this after all my lives, but this time I'm really in the soup.
Dr. N: Why?
S: Because I killed myself.
Dr. N: When a person kills himself on Earth does this mean they will
receive some sort of punishment as a spirit?
S: No, no, there is no such thing here as punishment-that's an Earth
condition. Clodees will be disappointed that I bailed out early and didn't
have the courage to face my difficulties. By choosing to die as I did
means I have to come back later and deal with the same thing all over
again in a different life. I just wasted a lot of time by checking out early.
Dr. N: So, no one will condemn you for committing suicide?
S: (reflects for a moment) Well, my friends won't give me any pats on the
back either-I feel sadness at what I did.
Note: This is the usual spiritual attitude toward suicide, but I want to add that
those who escape from chronic physical pain or almost total incapacity on
Earth by killing themselves feel no remorse as souls. Their guides and friends
also have a more accepting view toward this motivation for suicide…
Dr. N: You sound a little depressed at the prospect of an intimate
conversation with your guide about your last life?
S: (defensively) Because I blew it! I have to see him to explain why
things didn't work out. Life is so hard! I try to do it right … but …
Dr. N: Do what right?
S: (with anguish) I had an agreement with Clodees to work on setting
goals and then following through. He had expectations for me as Ross.
Damn! Now I have to face him with this …
Dr. N: You don't feel you met the contract you had with your advisor
about lessons to be learned as Ross?
S: (impatiently) No, I was terrible. And, of course, I'll have to do it all
over again. We never seem to get it perfect. (pause) You know, if it
weren't for Earth's beauty-the birds-flowers-trees-I would never go back.
It's too much trouble.
bec40e No.1128
Nothing
Humans are biologic entities and our consciousness is tied to our brain function
Once your brain ceases to function you literally cease to exist
d04b55 No.1153
Your "experience" after you die will be identical to your "experience" before you were born. That is to say none.
8e06a5 No.1158
92d9e0 No.1159
>>269>>269>Dat appeal to majority about such an important concept like death.Well, you're already on this board so I don't even have to say the insult.
f7e2ca No.1235
>>374>Sounds more like hope than logic>contains no hope>contains stable logicNo wonder you're on this board.
e0c868 No.1242
>>1236Yeah we can faggot, for example nothing was before you were born and nothing will be after you die.
If you really want to get objective.
452391 No.1253
>>1153what if you had pre birth experiences you have no memory off? if you can forget the material for a test, why not forget material of previous life?
for me oblivion after death seems like wishful thinking for some
7d9ac1 No.1256
A loli heaven.
One can always wish
85e23e No.1266
>>1158Not the guy you responded to, but see for instance:
http://www.amazon.com/Science-Near-Death-Experience-Consciousness-Survives/dp/1594773564http://www.amazon.com/Science-Afterlife-Experience-Immortality-Consciousness/dp/1594774528/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_yFor something more accessible, see for instance:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlXK68tMm7Yhttp://www.resuscitationjournal.com/article/S0300-9572%2814%2900739-4/fulltexthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwyVFW9kT8khttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo8szDkpcsM>>1159I lol'ed with mirth.
>>1236
>implying we can't use the objective facts of life to make predictions about death.But that's exactly my point - we can and should. The person I responded to said I couldn't use science to prove that there's an afterlife, which is what's truly ludicrous and I highlighted the dogma in our culture that we couldn't and shouldn't study death scientifically.
e0c868 No.1289
>>1266>taking testimonials from people in a coma or that almost died as truthfaggot
0e24d7 No.1294
File: 1414879534707.jpg (162.94 KB, 1281x624, 427:208, god__a_celestial_north_kor….jpg)
What is after death I dunno, you won't find out until the end.
I would personally not bother killing my self, the last thing you need to find out is that god(s) are real and you will end up moving to a celestial North Korea, then life would be more shit.
85e23e No.1384
>>1289
>"faggot">an explicit refutation of the central pointThe emotional maturity and reasoning skills are strong in this one.
f70f3a No.1387
>>230Nothing. Near death experiences can be recreated by taking drugs, they're just chemical reactions, not proof of an afterlife. If you die your brain stops functioning and you cease to exist.
8e06a5 No.1388
>>1159He agreed with the majority, he never implied he did it because the majority is right.
8e06a5 No.1389
>>1253You never actually forget something (unless part of your brain gets physically damaged), you just stop being able to "find" the memory you're looking for.
583c8a No.1390
Nothing hopefully.
85e23e No.1392
>>1387
>Near death experiences can be recreated by taking drugsWhich drugs are those? I've always wanted an NDE without any danger to my body. And no, DMT and ketamine are nothing like NDEs. I've even done DMT myself - redonkulously ultracrazy? Yes. Anything like an NDE? Bitch, please, not even close.
>they're just chemical reactionsNice preconceived notions you have there! However, how is it possible to have NDEs during cardiac arrests and then have patient after patient after patient accurately describe what is going on all around them, and their observations verified as completely accurate time and time again by the doctors and nurses present, when we know that there is virtually no brain wave activity going on at that time?
And yet, NDEs are described as "hyperlucid", with cognition and mentation enhanced way beyond what is ever possible during daily life.
>If you die your brain stops functioning and you cease to exist.You believe that. A lot of people believe that. A lot of NDErs used to believe that as well, before their experience.
http://www.near-death.com/storm.htmlThis guy is one of them.
"Sort of relaxing and closing my eyes, I waited for the end. This was it, I felt. This was the big nothing, the big blackout, the one you never wake up from, the end of existence. I had absolute certainty that there was nothing beyond this life – because that was how really smart people understood it. […] This wasn't what I expected, this wasn't right. Why was I still alive? I wanted oblivion. […] But I knew that it wasn't a dream. I became aware that strangely I felt more alert, more aware, more alive than I had ever felt in my entire life. All my senses were extremely acute."
The reality is, once you have a deep NDE, it doesn't matter what you believed prior to the NDE - you will be convinced by the reality of your experience that the afterlife real. The data is extremely clear on that point, as there are no exceptions in the literature.
See for instance this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgEOvZldRC8#t=05m57sAs you can see, the notion that NDEs are "due to drugs lol" is a fucking joke to deep NDErs. But I know I'm wasting my breath though, because you hold on to your current beliefs about death for demonstrably emotional reasons, and will continue doing so until you're proven wrong by your own experience. This is, after all, how most people reason about subjects that are closely connected to their worldview.
8e06a5 No.1394
>>1392You don't actually offer any kind of supporting evidence outside of the anecdotal, which means that you have no ground at all for your conclusions.
f70f3a No.1399
>>1392Multiple psychedelics, yes including ketamine and DMT, can create experiences exactly like what people describe NDEs as. LSD can do it also, as can the RC psychedelics like NBOMe.
Don't forget though, every trip is different, just because you have not had a trip that is like a NDE doesn't mean what I'm trying is wrong. A simple Google search shows plenty of people reporting NDEs from multiple psychedelics.
The stuff you describe sounds a lot like a psychedelic experience too. And that same site you quoted from, near-death, lists ketamine as a drug that can create NDEs:
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/paranormal12.html f70f3a No.1400
8e06a5 No.1401
>>1395Amazon? I'm not going to buy your shit, Mr. Salesman. I may be emotionally vulnerable, but I'm not stupid.
85e23e No.1417
File: 1414971182322.jpg (100.63 KB, 563x709, 563:709, copy_0_themanwhoknewtoomuc….jpg)
>>1399
>Multiple psychedelics, yes including ketamine and DMT, can create experiences exactly like what people describe NDEs as. LSD can do it also
>every trip is differentSince you seem to be drowning in such accounts, why don't you link some?
I'm not denying that a breakthrough on strong psychedelics can convince people of the reality of an afterlife. See for instance this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE6zvn8rHU4But the phenomenology of the experience is still nothing like an NDE. See for instance these two examples from two people who have both tried psychedelics and had NDEs:
"I would like to mention something else that isn't talked about much and that's hallucinogens. Hoping to recreate the experience, I've tried several drugs, including LSD, mushrooms, and ecstasy. These experiences were all wonderful, interesting, intriguing, fascinating, but there is a big difference. Yes, you get to explore other levels of consciousness but there is often a feeling of loss of control and fear that does not occur during an NDE. With the drugs, there is a surreal feeling, but with the NDE it feels more real than this life. With drugs, it's more an experience is happening to you. With the NDE, you're the experience, the experience is of yourself, your consciousness. A good thing about hallucinogens though is that they give people (who haven't had an NDE) a glimpse into altered states of consciousness and an awareness that there is more to us than we've been led to believe."
and
"As I looked up I saw a gold cloud. I was mesmerized by it. I just stared at it in awe. I start floating closer to it, not noticing I had floated completely out of my body. I felt weightless. As I got closer I saw gold gates. Then floated closer and saw trees behind the gold gates, and fields of the greenest grass. Everything from the gates to the grass was shining the most beautiful gold light from it. As I saw this sight, I felt the most amazing love and joy I have ever felt in my life. I cant even put into words the love and joy that was in me, around me, just flourishing. Not even a million X tabs could begin to scratch the surface to giving you the love and joy I was feeling. It was so pure. I really cant describe it. It was so intense, yet so calming. […] I haven't done acid but I have done shrooms, and it doesnt compare to the thought expansion you have when you are completely, and legitimately, out of your body experiencing the other side. Acid and shrooms expand your mind in a somewhat delusional sense. There is no delusion in an NDE."
As you can see, the basic structure of the experience differs completely from drugs, and the NDE is many orders of magnitude more real, lucid and wonderful than drug-induced experiences.
>And that same site you quoted from, near-death, lists ketamine as a drug that can create NDEsThat site is extremely shitty in and of itself (and the creator of it believes every crackpot theory he comes across regarding NDEs). I only linked it because it hosts a lot of synopses of specific deep NDE accounts.
>>1401I know and I get that, I'm not into linking people to things that need to be bought. The only reason I did it because it's by far the best summary of all the evidence and an explicit refutation of the central points being made in all the hitherto proposed skeptical arguments against the validity of the prima facie interpretation of NDEs, philosophical and scientific. For more accessible stuff online, I'd suggest for instance:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwyVFW9kT8khttp://topdocumentaryfilms.com/day-i-died/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPGZSC8odIUhttp://vimeo.com/11302423 f82332 No.1420
>>567I am with you on that.
f70f3a No.1422
85e23e No.1441
>>1422It would be preferable if you actually read the links you posted before dropping them on me.
>http://www.near-death.com/lsd.html
>https://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=156301I'm not sure you read
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/lsd04.html, which the first one links to. Nevertheless, I'm not disputing that high doses of strong psychedelics do produce experiences that convince people of some of the same universal truths about existence as NDEs do - we're all one, love is at the core of all things, there's an afterlife, etc. In fact, I view it as being in favor of what people learn during NDEs! I.e., there are many ways of realizing that stuff and experiencing it.
But I'm going to say it again:
The phenomenology of the experiences are completely different. If you have a trouble grasping what I'm saying, imagine this. Someone is about to teach you why 1 + 1 = 2. In scenario A, you're being shown an apple, and then another apple. You now see the two apples, and conclude how logical it all is. In the second scenario, you're studying up on Gottlob Frege's "The Foundations of Arithmetic".
While you may realize the same thing with these two different experiences, clearly the magnitude of the experience and the understanding that follows is still completely different. Same with drugs and the NDE.
>https://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=222847You absolutely did not read this. It's a clear case of a 25I-nbome overdose that lead to an NDE as he was in physical danger and had to go to the hospital, and not a case of the drug causing the NDE features because he went too deep on it.
Not all psychedelics are as safe for the body as LSD, mushrooms and DMT is. Some of them are junk and really fucking dangerous to your system, and 25I-nbome is almost the perfect example of this. The only reason people take this shit is because the good drugs are made illegal.
>http://io9.com/5916403/how-to-have-a-near-death-experience <- this even cites a study saying NDEs have nothing to do with deathNo, they're highlighting the fact that Fear Death Experiences (FDEs) are real. I.e., it's possible to have an NDE despite no physical symptoms of being near death, as long as you think you are about to die (such as falling from a cliff). Not a lot has been studied on these, although they are confirmed to happen.
However, they are actually in favor of the authenticity of NDEs, not against them. If you have the same experiences during times when the brain states are demonstrably completely different, how is it reasonable to assert that the brain causes the experience in any way?
Then the article goes on to talk about how people who faint have NDEs, and that's just an urban legend that has been explicitly disproven. I've fainted myself and yes, you do hallucinate. But again, it's nothing like an NDE. See this:
http://www.spiritualtravel.org/OBE/nde_arguments.html
>http://aleroy.com/board147.htmAgain, you didn't actually read this one.
f70f3a No.1442
>>1441You think someone OD'd on a strong psychedelic and that didn't somehow contribute to the fact they felt as they describe? I never claimed 25i was safe either.
The article I linked states, and I quote:
>You don't need to be near death to have a Near Death Experience. In fact, a groundbreaking 1990 study found that out of 58 patients who reported having a Near Death Experience, only 28 were "so close to death that they would have died without medical intervention." Writes researcher Justine Owens, "the other 30 patients were not in danger of dying, although most of them thought they were."I see you are trying to separate the fear experiences from NDEs but that's abortuary. It would seem, from the studies carried out, many people who have "NDEs" are not close to death at all. But it is the fact the brain thinks it's close to death that releases chemicals causing those strange experiences. Which is why the experience can be replicated using psychedelics.
I did read the final link, it is simply a trip report of someone on ketamine feeling all the same shit you say is a NDE. Yes I saw the site it was posted on responded to the ketamine TR with some bullshit new age thing but they also provide no evidence of it.
I remain unconvinced that there is anything to NDEs but a chemical reaction in the brain that makes you think funny. The human brain is a complex thing we don't really understand yet. To point to a strange behaviour it exhibits and say it's proof of something spiritual is like saying I must have thatans inside me causing depression. It's just as legit.
85e23e No.1443
File: 1414986147960.jpg (138.72 KB, 401x794, 401:794, copy_0_2011-1-radiant-abdu….jpg)
>>1441
>The phenomenology of the experiences are completely different.To illustrate this even further, compare these two:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gagR2_Yi8wE <- A deep psychedelic experience
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bw3oaNUR1iI <- A deep NDE
85e23e No.1449
>>1442
>You think someone OD'd on a strong psychedelic and that didn't somehow contribute to the fact they felt as they describe?Yeah. I've read hundreds if not thousands of NDEs, and this is no exception. If you think the drug added anything to this guy's NDE, the burden is on you to demonstrate that.
>I see you are trying to separate the fear experiences from NDEs but that's abortuary.What? No I didn't. Read my previous post again, where I clearly stated:
"[…] they're highlighting the fact that Fear Death Experiences (FDEs) are real. I.e., it's possible to have an NDE despite no physical symptoms of being near death, as long as you think you are about to die (such as falling from a cliff). Not a lot has been studied on these, although they are confirmed to happen."
How is that differentiating NDEs from FDEs? :) I am openly acknowledging that they're the same thing (although FDEs aren't as intense, on average).
>But it is the fact the brain thinks it's close to death that releases chemicals causing those strange experiences.And yet: We can't will ourselves to have NDEs, most people who start to think they're dying do not have them, most people who actually are dying do not have them, and better still, people who are dying have them despite reporting no fear whatsoever before having them (often, cardiac patients flat-line so quickly that there's no time to recognize what's even happening).
>Which is why the experience can be replicated using psychedelics.Except that it can't and you have yet to demonstrate it. For some reason, you refuse to acknowledge the point I'm making. I've already cited NDErs themselves
explicitly refuting the notion that they're anything alike, see
>>1392.
>I did read the final link, it is simply a trip report of someone on ketamine feeling all the same shit you say is a NDE.Except all those phenomenological differences, yes. How is that different from
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz0WX6c6HVY ?
>Yes I saw the site it was posted on responded to the ketamine TR with some bullshit new age thing but they also provide no evidence of it.Here's a thought - if Ketamine actually induced NDEs on even a somewhat regular basis,
IT WOULD BE MORE POPULAR THAN ALCOHOL OR EVEN CANDY!
The NDE bliss is so overwhelmingly wonderful and magical that even the most hardcore atheist or life enthusiast willingly and publicly admit that they would prefer to be there rather than back here. The happiness, love, peace and acceptance that people report in merging with that unearthly light is often reported as completely indescribable, even with terms like 10^100000000 times that of any combination of positive emotions we have here.
>I remain unconvinced that there is anything to NDEs but a chemical reaction in the brain that makes you think funny.Of course you, you approach this subject like anyone else with a set of bias, preconceived notions and a willingness to stick to your current beliefs. You also show an unwillingness to actually engage with the data, and just jump on the first arguments that sounds as if they justify your position. You might be interested in actually reading the following essay:
http://anti-matters.org/articles/8/public/8-8-1-PB.pdfIt explains why you're approaching this issue the way you do.
>The human brain is a complex thing we don't really understand yet.No way! I've never entertained that possibility before! Really? It could be the brain creating these experiences? Woah, your skepticism runs deep man ;) I really wish all those NDE and survival researchers had entertained that possibility at any point during their decades long interaction with the rest of academia. Man, talk about living in a bubble of pure delusion!
The fact is, researchers have been and are continuously exploring that possibility, but it's just not compatible with the data at all. See the Grossman article, and realize that materialism as a hypothesis about the nature of the world is potentially and already has been explicitly falsified by this data.
>To point to a strange behaviour it exhibits and say it's proof of something spiritualYeah, having hyper-lucid experiences during a time when we know it's flat-lined, and simultaneously seeing and hearing things later verified as accurate that the person wouldn't even have been able to perceive had they been completely awake at the time those observations occurred, is surely just a basic function of the brain which is completely compatible with the current prevailing notion of how certain brain states correlate with a functioning consciousness.
f70f3a No.1452
>>1449The fact is, we can argue about this until we die (lol) but neither of us will change each other's mind. The biases you bring up apply to you as well.
We also will never agree because, as with many matters involving neuroscience, not even people actually qualified to study the field have agreed on the causes. Keep in mind they don't even really know what causes depression yet (the serotonin theory is increasingly being doubted). Much of this is shit we simply don't know.
But I will quote from Wiki for what current scientific research says about NDEs:
>Psychologist Chris French has summarized psychological and organic theories that provide a physical explanation for NDEs. One psychological theory proposes that the NDE is a dissociative defense mechanism that occurs in times of extreme danger. A wide range of organic theories of the NDE has been put forward including those based upon cerebral hypoxia, anoxia, and hypercarbia; endorphins and other neurotransmitters; and abnormal activity in the temporal lobes.The basic theory behind this being that when your heart stops pumping blood to your brain, your brain can still function for a about a minute afterwards, but obviously it's fucked up because your heart isn't pumping blood to it, so you go batshit crazy.
As for this:
>Here's a thought - if Ketamine actually induced NDEs on even a somewhat regular basis,
>IT WOULD BE MORE POPULAR THAN ALCOHOL OR EVEN CANDY!Implying that ketamine isn't popular already? And that many people who use it get addicted to it and keep taking it even after it completely fucks up their bladders so they have to piss into a bag?
31e81b No.1465
character creation screen
465363 No.1467
What if this is the afterlife?
fac8a4 No.1470
I live in me imagination.
Would you also like to live in your imagination?
18fec4 No.1477
The fundamental problem about trying to discuss the concept of the afterlife is that it necessarily is beyond the scope of our knowledge. Anything we could possibly say about the afterlife is nothing but dialectical illusion.
It is of no concern to us what exists after, only that what exists here is intolerable.
f70f3a No.1509
>>1477I have the same view. Even if I entertain the idea of an afterlife, my choices are that I either stay in this world I know is shit, or gamble to either enter another one or finally disappear. Either way, I've achieved my goal of exiting my current existence.
8e06a5 No.1511
>>1467It can at most be -an- afterlife, not -the- afterlife.
9c125a No.1621
This thread is the reason /suicide/ is my new favorite board.
Thank you, anon.
97cb26 No.1623
>>230hopefully nothing
any existence can potentially become tragic, so I don't want to exist in any sense.
f1b7b8 No.1636
>>337I feel. I don't feel like being a christian and don't have the beliefs to. But but feels like something's nagging me and telling me afterlife is real. If this wasn't so I'd be gone maybe.
4c5586 No.1669
>>1509Same, why live out a hit life here? If we're going somewhere afterward, it's inevitable. Might as well skip this shit.
aa8f13 No.1678
>>1511What if every day is the same and we're just going through the motions we did the day before? Like we forget at the end of each day?
In gnostic teachings, this "reality" is hell, and there are 354 "heavens" above this one. Maybe we have to disassociate and die to keep moving up.
a10c32 No.1693
>>230My heart stops.
I shit and piss myself.
I turn cold and stiff.
I get buried and eaten by worms.
The people who love me are sad for a few weeks.
85e23e No.2521
>>1452
>The fact is, we can argue about this until we die (lol):D
>The biases you bring up apply to you as well.How? I grew up believing that death is the end of everything. I only changed my mind after carefully reviewing the evidence to the contrary.
>We also will never agree because, as with many matters involving neuroscience, not even people actually qualified to study the field have agreed on the causes. Keep in mind they don't even really know what causes depression yet (the serotonin theory is increasingly being doubted). Much of this is shit we simply don't know.I know, and that's a good point.
However, the fact remains that people see things during NDEs that they shouldn't be able to see, even things far away from the location of the physical body. No matter how you twist and turn the notion that the brain creates the mind, it can never accommodate that fact.
>The basic theory behind this being that when your heart stops pumping blood to your brain, your brain can still function for a about a minute afterwardsExcept for the fact that we know that the brain is completely flat-lined within 8-20 seconds within onset of cardiac arrest.
>Implying that ketamine isn't popular already? And that many people who use it get addicted to it and keep taking it even after it completely fucks up their bladders so they have to piss into a bag?Ketamine is still just about as popular as any other drug, and therefore not one zillionth as popular as it would be if it induced an actual NDE.
>>1477
>The fundamental problem about trying to discuss the concept of the afterlife is that it necessarily is beyond the scope of our knowledge.Because…? To me, it sounds like "The fundamental problem about trying to discuss the concept of what it's like taking LSD or walking on the moon is that it necessarily is beyond the scope of our knowledge."
No. People have done it and come back en masse to talk about what it was like. We know a lot about it.
18fec4 No.2624
>>2521>No. People have done it and come back en masse to talk about what it was like. We know a lot about it.People have come back from the dead to tell you about the afterlife?
WELL SHIT NIGGA YOU SHOULD WRITE A BOOK ABOUT IT AND GET RICH OFF THE INSECURITIES PEOPLE HAVE ABOUT THEIR MORTALITY cb3a7e No.2625
the same thing that came before
4f45fa No.2701
>>230Well hopefully for none of you will go into something worse can't say for sure but if you want to end your life because of pain you might be entering one that is even worse. Hopefully though it will be the true end, a void no longer see or feel or even beware.
c48947 No.2706
Body functions stop.
Shit in my life ends.
I don't give a shit
c2ce5d No.2716
If reincarnation and karma is real i must have been someone who loved to embarrass people in my previous life because i get embarrassed a lot in this life.
a24333 No.2718
>>230Well I don't know really but one thing keeps coming to my mind each and every time I think about it, the simple rule that energy never ceases to exist, that it just moves place to place and as most say and which is most likely true that our consciousness is just a series of synapses and sparks in our brain.
That's why I want to be buried without a coffin, out in a pasture or something like that, so that my body can return to the earth to be reused elsewhere and if just maybe there are some forms of reincarnation, all be it I might come back as a patch of grass but that would be enough for me
sounds stupid I know
599f66 No.2735
>>230>So what do you think comes after?Eternity, which also happens to be the most scary thing conceivable. You will never get off the ride, you can only change seats. You will always, on some level, be a conscious entity. Not until the end of time, because there is no end, but forever.
And nothing you ever do or don't do won't matter because everything you do will be undone by the shifting sands of time, in time. And you can't opt out. You have to play the game of existence in sandbox mode, forever.
7d36ba No.2771
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edfb8a No.2787
>>2771I can't tell if that's deep and insightful or edgy and pretentious.
cc5e8f No.2797
I honestly don't care what comes next. I'm just ready to peace out of whatever this is.
99ade9 No.2814
>>264You formulated what I've always been thinking. This is literally what happens. You will exist but you won't perceive your existence until you somehow come across sensory input, if ever. However if this happens, your "reincarnation" would be immediate seeing as you have no way of perceiving time in between consciousnesses.
431b24 No.2823
I fear death. The thought of nothing coming after this life utterly terrifies me. How do you cope, /suicide/?
7d36ba No.2829
c5d05c No.2869
>>625You've got a whole lot of nothing on your hands there. The afterlife has already been debunked in full. Don't let fear instill ignorance within you.
c5d05c No.2871
>>1242Do you know how you read? If you need a lesson, I'll teach you. You're clearly in need of a few lessons.
c5d05c No.2872
>>2814But you need an apparatus upon which the sensory stimuli can be registered. The brain is that apparatus, and it's completely destroyed upon death. Your being before that is merely a result of it's functions, so when it goes, there's nothing to bring you back in any way, shape, or form. A similar apparatus isn't just going to appear out of nowhere completely attuned to your previous being.
c5d05c No.2873
>>1392The problem here is you and everyone you're talking about has completely failed to realize that they didn't actually die. It takes a while for the brain to completely die once it's critical functions have ceased. During that time, the cells within are still functioning, and even firing with one another. It's is entirely possible for it to experience what it normally would because it's still alive, retards.
It's called NEAR death experience, not DEATH experience. When you find a study written by doctors who resurrected a patient who COMPLETELY died and somehow came back, THEN you can get back to us, otherwise you're just spouting what we already know and trying to spin it as something it's not.
c5d05c No.2874
>>2870Sorry, but you'll have to do a lot better than that to overthrow the truth. If you want to lie to yourself to feel better, go ahead and do so, but you're always going to be doing just that: Lying to yourself.
599f66 No.2881
>>2878well, you are a lolcow
c5d05c No.2887
>>2881>no lulz to be had>lolcowDid you fail one of your suicide attempts? Your brain damage is making you say weird things. Try the nicotine overdose method; People are saying plenty of good things about it, so you should finish what you started.
85e23e No.2891
>>2624
>People have come back from the dead to tell you about the afterlife?Well, yeah, which is also exactly what you'd expect to happen if there was an afterlife AND they wanted us to know about it, but not having it being infinitely obvious.
As it stands in this world right now, it requires emotional maturity to listen to these people, and/or a critical mind to dispassionately analyze the evidence for what it is, even though it's not concurrent with the intellectual fashion of our time to do so.
>WELL SHIT NIGGA YOU SHOULD WRITE A BOOK ABOUT IT AND GET RICH OFF THE INSECURITIES PEOPLE HAVE ABOUT THEIR MORTALITYPeople sell books about certain foods and exercises being healthy for you as well, because it makes people feel good to read it.
Does that mean that the books about healthy food and exercises are lying from beginning to end?
>>2716
>If reincarnation and karma is real i must have been someone who loved to embarrass people in my previous life because i get embarrassed a lot in this life.That's not how it works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo8szDkpcsM>>2735
>Eternity, which also happens to be the most scary thing conceivable. You will never get off the ride, you can only change seats. You will always, on some level, be a conscious entity. Not until the end of time, because there is no end, but forever. This guy gets it. As the deep NDEr Christian Andréason summarized his NDE,
"As my soul left my body, I found myself floating in a swirling ocean of multi-colored light. At the end, I could see and feel an even brighter light pulling me toward it, and as it shined on me, I felt indescribable happiness. I remembered everything about eternity - knowing, that we had always existed, and that all of us are family. Then old friends and loved ones surrounded me, and I knew without a doubt I was home, and that I was so loved." -
http://www.broadjam.com/artists/songs.php?artistID=14702&mediaID=460764>>2823
>I fear death. The thought of nothing coming after this life utterly terrifies me. How do you cope, /suicide/?By realizing that while this is a belief that's currently part of the zeitgeist, the evidence against it is overwhelming.
See for instance this:
http://vimeo.com/11302423>>2869Essentially, this is what you're saying: "Nuh-uuh!" You have to actually explicitly refute the central core of my points if you want to have a discussion.
Cool opinion though, haven't heard that one before.
>>2872
>But you need an apparatus upon which the sensory stimuli can be registered. The brain is that apparatusLooks like someone hasn't done their homework.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_qBIw7qyHUhttp://www.scienceandtheneardeathexperience.com/pages/Does-consciousness.pdf>>2873
>The problem here is you and everyone you're talking about has completely failed to realize that they didn't actually die.
>It's called NEAR death experience, not DEATH experience. Actually, these people *do* die, and the recent research on NDEs is completely straightforward about that (one researcher want to rename the term to ADEs, Actual Death Experiences. 'NDEs' is just a term that was coined in the 1970s as the phenomenon was coming into the mainstream, but see the vimeo-link I've provided in this post for a more thorough elaboration on that point.
>It's is entirely possible for it to experience what it normally would because it's still alive, retards. Aaaand here we go. With NDEs during cardiac arrests, you don't have a globally active brain. At the absolute best, you have tiny pockets of activity in some random places, and then you're being lucky.
Neuroscientists think that you need the entire brain showing activity to even approach what's needed for a fully functioning consciousness with cognition.
And yet, during NDEs, people are claiming to be hyper-lucid with enhanced cognition and mentation.
85e23e No.2956
>>2898You know, if you're going to engage in the discussion, at least take a moment to familiarize yourself with everything that's already been stated.
I mean,
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2011/may/15/stephen-hawking-interview-there-is-no-heavenThis text provided absolutely nothing of value in terms of any arguments against anything I've said. At best, it offered one famous scientist's opinion on the issue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDcZkrl-eoYSam Harris is a fairly smart person who gets halfway there. The problem is that he doesn't understand the transmission theory of consciousness. According to Sam Harris, if I smash my TV so bad that it can no longer display color, that probably means that the BBC broadcast station can no longer send out colors, just because the TV I've damaged can't display it.
Same with the brain and our soul/spirit/whatever. While we're embodied, our human mind very much depends on the state of our brain, just like our physical health and ability to move around depends on the state of our body. Yet no one believes we have to take our body with us to move around in the afterlife.
http://www.academia.edu/2795738/No_Mental_Life_after_Brain_Death_The_Argument_from_the_Neural_Localization_of_Mental_FunctionsSame thing here. They're not even aware of the transmission theory of consciousness so that entire tirade is irrelevant.
Let me be unequivocal: You're not stating anything new with these links, nor anything I'm denying.
See these two:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_qBIw7qyHUhttp://www.scienceandtheneardeathexperience.com/pages/Does-consciousness.pdfI provided them in my last reply, but you clearly failed to grasp their message.
>Near death experience debunked:http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/12/seeing-god-in-the-third-millennium/266134/http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-near-death-experience-isnt-proof-heaven/Two popular science articles that doesn't even delve into the data? I mean grow up. I've provided scholarly articles, not feel-good "you're in the club of understanding materialism too? awesome kthnxbye" journalistic fluff.
These articles are nothing new and they have been refuted point by point by others already. Do a proper google search and be skeptical of your own sources and you'll find that out quite quickly.
I mean the second article was just a joke, and the first one… actually, that one too was a joke. They both just had a problem with Eben Alexander's NDE and didn't provide any actual arguments backed by data.
218d33 No.2960
>>1266But theoretically if reincarnation was a real thing, when people died, they wouldn't be able to come back to life, they would just die and immediately they would be reincarnated, but we see that to be false as people have died and been resuscitated.
7d36ba No.2968
>>2956>These articles are nothing new and they have been refuted point by point by others already. Do a proper google search and be skeptical of your own sources and you'll find that out quite quickly.Nope.
The articles/videos that YOU posted are the ones that are nothing new and have been refuted point by point by others already. If YOU do a proper google search and be skeptical of YOUR own sources, YOU will find that out quite quickly.
>The problem is that he doesn't >Same thing here. They're not even aware of the transmission theory of consciousnessNope. they are aware of it but it's a shitty theory.
>I've provided scholarly articlesNope.
Do you even know what the word scholarly means? I am the only one to post links of articles done by actual academic scholars.
Oliver Sacks (from theatlantic.com article) is a Professor of neurology
And the other article I posted is from a site literally for nothing but scholarly acedemic research (academia.edu)
Your links are just self promoting crap. An excerpt from some guys (probably you) book from his own site is NOT scholarly.
scienceandtheneardeathexperience.com is nothing but a promotional site for a book.
This is a direct quote from that site about the author:
"Carter is originally from Canada and currently teachers internationally"
….what?
I'm guessing this is you so please edit that.
>According to Sam Harris, if I smash my TV so bad that it can no longer display color, that probably means that the BBC broadcast station can no longer send out colors, just because the TV I've damaged can't display it.That's a horrible analogy. Here's a better one.
A broken TV is like a dead person. The TV loses it's ability to broadcast, but no one is saying the broadcast itself is gone. But unless you fix the TV that particular TV will never be able to pick up the broadcast.
Same with the person. The world still goes on, but unless that person comes back from the dead, they are no longer conscious of it.
If you get your eyes gouged out, you can no longer see, right? Does that mean that the things you used to see are no longer there? No. It just means you have no ability to see them without eyes.
Same with consciousness and the brain. If someone gouges your brain out and destroys it, you will no longer be able to see, hear, touch, taste or perceive in any way. Does that mean that the things you once perceived are gone? No. But you can no longer perceive anything without a brain.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but I'm sure your so far deluded that nothing will make you realize you're wrong anyway.
>This text provided absolutely nothing of value in terms of any arguments against anything I've said.Direct quote from article:
"I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark,"-Stephen Hawking
>Stephen Hawking>prolific scientist>extremely disabled>would benefit from afterlife far more than most people>uses scientific reasoning, not emotion, to understand that there is no afterlife 6f4149 No.2976
>mfw fedora think they know anything about afterlife
Determinist can just give up. Because if they deny freewill than emotions are an entirely detrimental evolution characteristic.
The truth is emotions and consciousness are part of the universe and that is the reason parts of your body evolved specifically to harness these emotions.
btw they interact via the astral, and the only way to interact with the astral is not physically but consciously, therefore it is not measurable by the scientific method, which relies 100% on measuring particles bumping into each other.
The astral is a crazy place and it is a sea full information and ideas. Yo are already there and already leaking from it and into it every day. You never even noticed. You won't notice it either when you die it will be like you were always there, the same feeling you have when you were born you feel as if you were always in the body.
3b7d9d No.3307
350986 No.3375
>>2960That just means they weren't dead.
You can mistake an alive person for dead.
8ef89f No.3414
>>2976Emotions are a result of chemicals release it response to stimuli. Humans didn't evolve to feel emotions, emotions were spawned from evolution. You have causality completely backwards.
64c5c6 No.3732
Well since Ex nilo is bullshit, anyone who thinks the universe just appeared is being intellectually dishonest to comply with certain party lines, that leaves us with two options (neither do a good job of explaining but oh well) 1. God 2. The universe/Multiverse is infinite. So if you take the latter as you belief then given enough time and the right circumstances the arrangement of particles that make you up will do so again, and again ad infinitum.
There is no way out, just hope your next life you are tall and attractive lol.
3553e6 No.3758
>>1103I hope that this is bullshit because I don't want to be part of all this shit he wrote in those books.
6e0397 No.3774
Probably nothing, but my fantasy of an afterlife is this:
Every individual has their own perfect universe. By this I mean, when you die you can have anything that you want. Are you still in love with your ex? Here you go, she'll be madly in love with you forever. Did you always dream of banging your favourite pornstar, celebrity or girl that you knew from school or work? Here, she'll want your dick. Do you want to be able to shoot heroin all day every day without worry? Get that shit.
Pretty simple and I'm sure it doesn't exist, but that's my hope. My ideal afterlife would be something along the lines of this:
>would get my qt gf back forever before she went nutty and became a crack addict
>would be able to have sex with Christina Hendricks and other sex chicks and my gf (the ex, I mean) whenever I want and have it be all cool
>would be able chill with my best friend who died last year
>would get all of my hair back (I'm only 22 and am balding badly)
>could eat whatever I want without becoming a fatass
>8chan and 4chan would be good again and there would always be lulzy threads
>would never have to deal with SJWs and their bullshit
>could control the weather so that it would be cold and rainy/snowy for most of the year while I'm in my cozy house
>would have an unlimited supply of drugs to use and would never become addicted nor could I OD
It would be simple and great.
cdeba5 No.3778
4b9192 No.3786
>>3774Actually, this is theory is pretty widespread amongst people who experience the astral realm (4D). That is, when you die, you go to a place where everything you can imagine manifests spontaneously. And after that…
6e0397 No.3789
>>3786Hmm, sounds neat. I'll have to look into that since it sounds interesting. Thanks, Anon.
d0ec89 No.3790
i don't care, nor do i know
i guess either way it'll be whatever, i don't mind
4f089b No.3794
>>337I'm the opposite. Raised by staunch atheists and the thought of nothingness doesn't bring me much peace. Most religions completely condemn suicide, so I'm kind of stuck waiting until the thought of absolute nothingness is appealing.
f0f414 No.3814
57e6f8 No.5359
I hope nothing
But I think everything
And then something
9e373c No.5366
As your brain releases a fuckton of DMT you will trip yourself out of existence.
Then, the abyss. No blackness, no silence, no time. Nothing.
Your conscious mind can not comprehend it. For this reason it fears it. But there's nothing to fear. There's nothing to fear as much as there's nothing to look forward to. Except the DMT trip.
4cfba7 No.5378
Nothing. Absolute darkness.
825e90 No.5390
I always had this theory that when you die, you live again instantly without you realizing it.
like… once you die you're immediately living the same life like it's nothing and you don't even know you died.
it would probably explain Déjà vus. You remember a certain part of your life because you literally lived it before in your previous life. Your consciousness just fucked up and forgot to erase that specific memory when you died.
I just think everybody is just living their own version of the world over and over again forever in a loop. Everything and everybody else is just your consciousness making stuff up. When you die you basically just reboot and live the same things all over again for infinity.
that's what I always thought and it kinda freaks me out that I have to live ALL THAT SHIT again. It doesn't even make any sense but for some reason I actually believe this.
957186 No.5416
I'm not very concerned, but I like the concept the Native Americans believe, that you simply become part of the earth again. Your consciousness ends, you die. The mind ceases to exist, so does your existence.
57e6f8 No.5419
>>5418
Oh wait I misread you. Sorry. Disregard.
57e6f8 No.5420
>release
>submergence into the infinity
>massive amounts of too many feelings
>maybe fear
>without a brain to handle it, it's too much
>reincarnation is inevitable to escape the madness
>life starts again until your brain trains you awareness to be okay with being free
cbe616 No.5443
>>351Find me a quote from the Bible that says that.
It's not there, dipshit
Every body talks about the Bible, but no one ever reads it.
Suicide became a sin after a sect of heretics started starving themselves to death.
0526d1 No.5558
I figure that if we were to die, we'd either face nothingness or reincarnation. The concept of heaven and hell are way too ambiguous since religions define their own unique version of the afterlife, so it's impossible to know which one is the truth without experiencing it firsthand; however, most of the time, it seems like when people say that you're going to hell for doing something, it's because their values are different, so it's not very believable to have people tell me that I'd burn in hell for simple things like not believing in God, whereas a person who does believe in God but is a serial killer will make it to heaven doesn't sit well with me.
a66c20 No.5562
Stuff like Nostradamus makes me think there really is something else out there. I dont think it is nice or bad though, just beyond our comprehension.
845ede No.5579
I hope it's just and endless nothingness where I feel comfy like I'm asleep.
It'd be neato burrito if this was all in my head and I could make my OWN afterlife.
9c17a3 No.5583
endless loop with no memory
i'm going to have to live this shitty life over and over again for the rest of eternity
4cc259 No.5593
Reincarnation of some sort. It'd be great if I could build up enough good karma to come back as a well-cared-for and much loved housecat.
f97835 No.5601
>>592not impossible.
ever wonder how surgery passes in the blink of an eye? that's it, just eternal. by this logic the dead have already experienced the end of space and time - death is the end of the universe.
fe1f0e No.5970
Her
3978f0 No.5973
File: 1424054812777.jpg (828.07 KB, 2560x1440, 16:9, 4069bd63647493d83e1447e189….jpg)
I don't know how people can ground themselves to one belief when there are so many possibilities.
f7c1b2 No.5979
>>495Attractive girls really do have life on easy mode don't they
4f45fa No.6265
>>230Well they say the ride never ends so what you think?
f8fb58 No.6279
>>6275
>>6276
This is the wrong board- read rule 2.
cee248 No.6290
>>1294I'm an atheist and all, but still; fuck Hitchens. Dude was a total SJW and I'm glad he's dead.
704c97 No.6301
>>6265>>6265what is this shit?
>badly drawn water, too many ripples, no disturbances at all around walking figure>badly photoshopped faces>poorly copy-pasted flames>everything is blurry>blurring isn't even done well, its jarring and inconsistent>those fucking faces in the background again, what was he thinking?>everyone facing the same direction>walking towards the viewer, what is there aside from the lake of hellfire and why isn't that in frame?>no fucking detail>except for those damned faces holy shitI like the general idea, but it's executed so poorly.
704c97 No.6302
>>6301pic related is what water looks like
704c97 No.6303
File: 1424893832959.jpg (1.41 MB, 3811x1735, 3811:1735, christs descent into hell ….jpg)
>>6302and if you want hell look no further than the middle ages, they were very concerned with not just living a good life but also dying a good death. Naturally hell plays a large role incentivising a good life, and people lived with death in mind to keep them on the right path
704c97 No.6304
>>6303memento mori - think of death, though often translated to preserve the idiomatic meaning rather than this literal meaning
704c97 No.6305
File: 1424894483404.jpg (1.32 MB, 3051x1633, 3051:1633, __LOWRES_DONT_USE_the-gard….jpg)
>>6304>>6304everyone dances with death in the end, peasant or king, healthy or sickly
http://a.pomf.se/vkxuio.jpg>image is too big to uploadInstead have another bosch painting
>102MBwelp that's out too, have a shit version from google
704c97 No.6306
>>6305If you're one of those people whom thinks there nothing, and that death is the same as before conception, then take satans's advice to beelzibub when cast down to hell and bereft of hope:
What though the field be lost?
All is not lost; the unconquerable Will,
And study of revenge, immortal hate,
And courage never to submit or yield:
And what is else not to be overcome?
That Glory never shall his wrath or might
Extort from me. To bow and sue for grace
With suppliant knee, and deifie his power
Who from the terrour of this Arm so late
Doubted his Empire, that were low indeed,
That were an ignominy and shame beneath
This downfall; since by Fate the strength of Gods
And this Empyreal substance cannot fail,
Since through experience of this great event
In Arms not worse, in foresight much advanc't,
We may with more successful hope resolve
To wage by force or guile eternal Warr
Irreconcileable, to our grand Foe,
Who now triumphs, and in th' excess of joy
Sole reigning holds the Tyranny of Heav'n.
704c97 No.6307
File: 1424895359782.jpg (1013.38 KB, 2327x2980, 2327:2980, Caspar_David_Friedrich_-_W….jpg)
>>6306Or the advice of Ulysses if that's more tasteful to you:
There lies the port; the vessel puffs her sail:
There gloom the dark, broad seas. My mariners,
Souls that have toil'd, and wrought, and thought with me—
That ever with a frolic welcome took
The thunder and the sunshine, and opposed
Free hearts, free foreheads—you and I are old;
Old age hath yet his honour and his toil;
Death closes all: but something ere the end,
Some work of noble note, may yet be done,
Not unbecoming men that strove with Gods.
The lights begin to twinkle from the rocks:
The long day wanes: the slow moon climbs: the deep
Moans round with many voices. Come, my friends,
'T is not too late to seek a newer world.
Push off, and sitting well in order smite
The sounding furrows; for my purpose holds
To sail beyond the sunset, and the baths
Of all the western stars, until I die.
It may be that the gulfs will wash us down:
It may be we shall touch the Happy Isles,
And see the great Achilles, whom we knew.
Tho' much is taken, much abides; and tho'
We are not now that strength which in old days
Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;
One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
704c97 No.6308
>>6307Or if you prefer a modern bent then camus's the myth of sisyphus says pretty much the same as the prior two, albeit in a far more explicit fashion:
If this myth is tragic, that is because its hero is conscious. Where would his torture be, indeed, if at every step the hope of succeeding upheld him? The workman of today works everyday in his life at the same tasks, and his fate is no less absurd. But it is tragic only at the rare moments when it becomes conscious. Sisyphus, proletarian of the gods, powerless and rebellious, knows the whole extent of his wretched condition: it is what he thinks of during his descent. The lucidity that was to constitute his torture at the same time crowns his victory. There is no fate that can not be surmounted by scorn.
If the descent is thus sometimes performed in sorrow, it can also take place in joy. This word is not too much. Again I fancy Sisyphus returning toward his rock, and the sorrow was in the beginning. When the images of earth cling too tightly to memory, when the call of happiness becomes too insistent, it happens that melancholy arises in man's heart: this is the rock's victory, this is the rock itself. The boundless grief is too heavy to bear. These are our nights of Gethsemane. But crushing truths perish from being acknowledged. Thus, Edipus at the outset obeys fate without knowing it. But from the moment he knows, his tragedy begins. Yet at the same moment, blind and desperate, he realizes that the only bond linking him to the world is the cool hand of a girl. Then a tremendous remark rings out: "Despite so many ordeals, my advanced age and the nobility of my soul make me conclude that all is well." Sophocles' Edipus, like Dostoevsky's Kirilov, thus gives the recipe for the absurd victory. Ancient wisdom confirms modern heroism.
Though the whole thing is worth reading, this should give you a taste for camus's sense of what he calls the absurd.
704c97 No.6309
File: 1424896001632.jpg (4.22 MB, 3315x4226, 3315:4226, Portrait_of_a_Man_in_a_Tur….jpg)
>>6308Personally I think it's no different from before conception. But hey, it might not be.
4f45fa No.6336
>>6301>what is this shit?The lake of fire, possibly where people that committed suicide go. Highly doubt if there is a afterlife that is pleasant by design it seems the world was created by a sadist so the creator probably doesn't care much for souls either. Probably just entertainment for this entity whether it is the god of the bible or some other book doesn't matter what is evident is the world was created in such a way that suffering will happen. I'd like to imagine killing yourself doesn't end the bullshit, just starts another phase but much worse than the one you just ended.
Since truly no one can know what actual death leads to "as in permanent end of biological functions" your taking a gamble, hopefully though it's just absolutely nothing I hope that much for people that decided to end it all.
704c97 No.6337
File: 1424911643480.jpg (242.68 KB, 1000x1487, 1000:1487, Idunn_and_Bragi_by_Blommer.jpg)
>>6336m8 I know what hell is. I meant the art.
Him the Almighty Power
Hurld headlong flaming from th' Ethereal Skie
With hideous ruine and combustion down
To bottomless perdition, there to dwell
In Adamantine Chains and penal Fire,
Who durst defie th' Omnipotent to Arms.
Nine times the Space that measures Day and Night
To mortal men, he with his horrid crew
Lay vanquisht, rowling in the fiery Gulfe
Confounded though immortal: But his doom
Reserv'd him to more wrath; for now the thought
Both of lost happiness and lasting pain
Torments him; round he throws his baleful eyes
That witness'd huge affliction and dismay
Mixt with obdurate pride and stedfast hate:
At once as far as Angels kenn he views
The dismal Situation waste and wilde,
A Dungeon horrible, on all sides round
As one great Furnace flam'd, yet from those flames
No light, but rather darkness visible
Serv'd only to discover sights of woe,
Regions of sorrow, doleful shades, where peace
And rest can never dwell, hope never comes
That comes to all; but torture without end
Still urges, and a fiery Deluge, fed
With ever-burning Sulphur unconsum'd:
Such place Eternal Justice had prepar'd
For those rebellious, here their Prison ordain'd
In utter darkness, and their portion set
As far remov'd from God and light of Heav'n
As from the Center thrice to th' utmost Pole.
On the subject of an afterlife it's a recent notion that the god(s) is(are) benevolent, omniscient, and omnipotent.
The gods of old were flawed, and man truly of their image. They either stumbled into the world as we and simply took their place, or if they created it then their descendants created and bothered with humans while the truly powerful remained aloof. This absurd notion you have that humans are central to the universe is unfounded.
Furthermore even if there was a powerful good god that cared about humans in particular then what makes you think this isn't for the best? That our perceived suffering is a means to and end. Sure this doesn't work with an omnipotent god, but the concept of omnipotence isn't coherent in the sense most people interpret it.
If you look at the world without a modern-christian influenced view there's no sensible way to conclude there is no benevolent god.
Furthermore what if our suffering is merely the strife between gods, or what if, just perhaps, it's a combination of random shit and self-inflicted. Humans look after each other in life to grow, and in death god takes over. Why not that?
There are so many assumptions you make that deserve reconsidering.
704c97 No.6338
>>6337Furthermore you assume that a god or gods is/are needed for a mind to continue existing after death. What if minds are all there is, nothing higher or ruling. I'm sure new agers, 'spiritualists' and the ilk would have a lot to say on this matter, though I'm not familiar with it myself it seems clear that a god needn't be required for a coherent definition of life beyond the flesh.
https://britlitwiki.wikispaces.com/theshipofdeath 704c97 No.6339
>>6336Also if you want images of hell look to dorés illustrations for dante and milton, or bosch
704c97 No.6340
>>6339FYI in that last image dante is in the wood of those violent against the self (suicides) and is moved for further the suffering of the one he addresses for the first and only time
704c97 No.6341
File: 1424912502032.jpg (756.59 KB, 1920x1080, 16:9, 20130722_annotated_earth-m….jpg)
>>6336<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/4PN5JJDh78I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
704c97 No.6342
>>63412nd time lucky
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="www.youtube.com/embed/4PN5JJDh78I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
fc28d5 No.6384
>>6336>I'd like to imagine killing yourself doesn't end the bullshit, just starts another phase but much worse than the one you just ended.Wtf? Why?
85de3c No.6386
I secretly hope that life is some sort of VR simulation or ultra immersive hipster video-game being played by beings that know all, see all, understand all, never die and are always 100% content and when you die the game ends and you go "well that was cool". You continue to go about your day as one of these supreme beings, maybe this life is just a short play session between breakfast and lunch and maybe I'll boot it up again in the evening to go for 100% completion in a completely different universe as a completely different life form.
704c97 No.6388
30ad6a No.7453
Gensokyo
57e6f8 No.7613
We awake in another world to find that this one was a simulation
Then when we die in that world the same thing happens
Repeat into infinity until one day we get sick of it and just stop dying
058322 No.10780
Whatever it is, it's better than what's here.
000000 No.11066
>>10780
Yes, nothing is better.
f16211 No.11205
>>2814
That's kind of egotistical, don't you think? The idea that consciousness is so cool and special and unique that it will continue to exist regardless of apparatus on which to host itself. Your consciousness didn't exist before you were born, it wasn't just chilling until it got it's turn to take a brain.
If you were to program some basic AI from scratch, then proceed to shut down the machine it's running on, the AI isn't sitting somewhere on there twiddling it's thumbs. It's gone, nonexistant in that moment.
f16211 No.11206
>>494
There are three theories that people like to refer to when considering what is "them". Body theory, brain theory, and data theory.
Body theory states that "you" are your body, and that any change in your body results in you being a different person. This is widely regarded, as the shittiest of the three theories.
Brain theory states that "you" are your brain and your body is merely a vessel. If you were to have your brain removed and placed in a different body, your consciousness would wake up in that new body. This does have some issues, as it is potentially possible to survive with literally 50% of your brain. The problem of course being your old body gets one half, some new body gets the other half, then which one is you? Either, both, neither, something. This is what relates to the teleporter problem, your brain is destroyed and recreated somewhere else, meaning you're dead and someone else is walking away with your memories and personality.
Data theory is what you appear to be going for here. It states that anything programmed with your personality and memories is "you". However, think for a moment you are in a room with someone. You had to choose which one of you would face horrific torture. You would probably choose them. Now what if you were told your personality would be programmed into them and their personality into you, would you suddenly say that you should face the torture because your personality is somewhere else? Doubtful.
The idea here is that just because there is a possibility (albeit slim) that there's another brain somewhere out there capable of the exact same personality as you, it doesn't mean your consciousness will magically teleport over there and merge. You will cease to exist and that other brain with it's own conscious will go on as it was, exactly like if you were teleported.
d7444a No.11212
My friend's mother is a psychic, I hadn't even told my friend I was going to commit suicide. Her mother one day asked her who I was (not knowing we were friends or anything) and also knew I was going to commit suicide. She said if I killed myself in this life I would be reincarnated with the same problems. O well, damned if I do, damned if I don't.
4b5405 No.11239
>>11205
No, there is nothing inherently cool or special about consciousness as the concept of an awareness outside of space and time using the human brain and body as a terminal for sensory input and output.
Speculation as to whether or not your consciousness existed before or after your birth cannot be substantiated by any scientific process I know of. However if this where the case then some trigger happened beyond space and time that made your consciousness crave being in this dimension and it either set into motion events to create a moment or waited until a opportune one to gain passage here revealed itself.
Your comparison of the AI to consciousness would be correct only if the events of this universe somehow brought it into existence and where able to take it out.
If not then it would be more appropriate to say a machine was made that the AI found appropriate to inhabit and grow its systems however way it felt necessary. Then when the machine began to decay or become obsolete it left in search of other, better machines to occupy.
2884dd No.11251
>>337
Get murdered, bypass the lot of it
8c6497 No.11253
According to this priest book which I want to believe is right "heaven doesn't have to be a specific place for all(imagine the fucked up mess with all the people that sucks or hurted you and you fucking hate who should be in hell anyways) each blessed one could have their own abode" Sounds good like finally abandon this randomly generated hacked and full of viruses mmorpg to choose for once who you will be how and where.
690667 No.11299
Idon't believe there's anything after we die but I'd humor that our consciousness is tied to a server or sorts and we were put here for some reason to inhabit these bodies and may well do so again. What I hope is that even though I'd be bitter that my role here had no purpose I could be rewarded for enduring it by being put in a new world, maybe one created by us, that needs it's characters to have a soul and be someone I can respect and be happy. If every world imagined needed filled though then things would only get progressively more miserable. Just imagine if that's the truth and that's why your life is so shitty, because somebody thought it up to express themselves. Like sex but a million times more tragic.
ca5f37 No.11308
Whatever you believe happens, nobody will ever know exactly.
c7387e No.11345
ecbca5 No.11355
Nothing for this cycle but you'll ultimately form part of the eternal return, living the same experiences (in a new, same universe part of a larger set of multiverses repeating themselves forever) and end up killing yourself again and again for eternity.
35d50b No.11398
Been dead before. Borderline brain death, as my heart was stopped for 10-11 minutes at room temperature, no hypothermia to cheat with. I am aware of the loss of some cognitive function thanks to this event, and subsequent concussions. Specifically, my ability to remember names and titles has taken a severe hit. Ah well, could be worse. I could suck at math or language.
Anyway, the short, short version, because I'm tired of telling it every time some gaggle of faggots claim they saw jebus when they passed out masturbating or something.
Heart defect likes to kill me at random, and often, the impact of me hitting the floor like a bag of rocks is what kicks my heart back into working order. So this time back in 1999 or so, it didn't. No blood flow, no respiration, slow suffocation from oxygen deprivation. "self" started shutting down and falling apart until just the smallest bit of awareness was left. Not pleasant, but I recall it pretty well.
Then oblivion.
Then everything slowly started working again, in the reverse order that it had shut off. It was interesting, until all of my pain receptors lit up like a California brush fire in gale-force winds. Felt like being eaten alive by fire ants. Absolute agony. Took a few days to get back to functionality, and I felt really, really shitty for half a year. Some nerve damage that seems to have largely abated since then.
Once you've been dead, that's all you ever truly want again.
f16211 No.11655
>>11239
Consciousness is not energy, it can be created and destroyed. If you were to create a machine, hook a camera and a microphone to it, give it face and speech recognition software, and program it to react in certain ways to interactions with people you just created a lite consciousness. That's all it is. Your brain is a biological computer made of gray matter. Input goes through the senses, bounces around in the brain a bit, and depending on the brains chemical composition at the time the reaction is formed. Adding or removing chemicals will completely change one's personality and subsequently, their conscious (I.E. getting drunk, high, or clinically depressed).
The problem is simply that the human brain managed to figure out A) what it is and is made up of and B) that death is inevitable. Us being programmed to fear death above all else being combined with these two facts leads us to vainly attempting to logically or illogically explain away death in a way that means we'll never actually die.
All this explaining you're doing is a result of your evolution. Death by inevitability isn't something we can run away from or smash with a rock, so you defeat it in the only way you know how: rationalizing.
4b5405 No.11687
>>11655
Consciousness as I understand and believe in it is energy, made of energy, and is in actuality energy in its most primal sense. Capable of creating both minute and large changes in the physical universe some of which take many years to witness and some that take far shorter amounts of time. But that is a far larger scope than what we are talking about and is more spiritual than scientific, not to say that science is able to prove or disprove it or that there are even scientific links to this theory.
One notable example is Princeton's Global Consciousness Project's tracking of world events with Quantum RNGs. Here is the site's description of what they track: When human consciousness becomes coherent, the behavior of random systems may change. Random number generators (RNGs) based on quantum tunneling produce completely unpredictable sequences of zeroes and ones. But when a great event synchronizes the feelings of millions of people, our network of RNGs becomes subtly structured. We calculate one in a trillion odds that the effect is due to chance. The evidence suggests an emerging noosphere or the unifying field of consciousness described by sages in all cultures.
http://global-mind.org/
It would stand to reason that at least parts of our consciousness stem out beyond space and time and this behavior has been found in other scientific experiments as well. I'll post a bit more tom when I'm not so tired. Anyways…
>Adding or removing chemicals will completely change one's personality and subsequently, their conscious (I.E. getting drunk, high, or clinically depressed).
Same theory as before. Change the RAM, Processor, Graphics Card, etc. the software will either behave better or poorer depending on what you use. IE poisoning the body the consciousness inhabits will lead to severely negative experiences within that body. Understand that even though your consciousness is beyond space and time while it inhabits a corporeal body it is severely limited with just how far it can change things or even its own consciousness awareness of what it really is. Most people as you say do indeed view themselves solely as this body alone and it takes a near death experience to give them another perspective on the matter.
>that death is inevitable
Then there is nothing to really worry about. Nothing that can really be done about. Its going to happen and no one can be faulted for it. Its not your fault nor is it anyone elses if that is really the end. Nothing sad or happy about it, just like the life-cycle of a star it gets extinguished. Just the way it is if that is the truth.
d1174c No.12878
fecce5 No.12883
>>3774
>>3786
My only concern with this belief system in that, is there anyone in my personal heaven to share with, or are they all just empty husks that spawned from my imagination? Will I actually get to live with my wife or will she still be alive as I love out a fantasy with a computer program?
d1174c No.12886
>>12883
Ideally you should create a fantasy for yourself with someone exactly like her but that's not her
The hardest part about the afterlife is dealing with the idea that you are basically alone and are the "director" (to steal a phrase from left 4 dead) of everything, but if we delve into it philosophically, the only reality you can exist in now is the one of you being dead, so technically she IS real
31f55e No.12889
>>11398
>Then oblivion.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, Are you saying you still could perceive that there wasn't anything? There was actual, perceivable time between your self shutting down and your self starting back up again?
That's new, if so.
d3cccc No.12906
This is what awaits us after death:
http://www.astralpulse.com/frankkepple.html
TL;DR: Where you end up depends on your attachment to the physical reality.
d2cd25 No.13050
>>829
I know this post is old as fuck, but this exactly what I believe about this topic.
>What about dogs, cats, ants and bacteria, they live, do trees or birds go to heaven?
This, right here, makes me question all my hopes for an afterlife.
acb402 No.13078
>>13050
The mere fact that we don't know?
Reverse the issue. Say there is an afterlife, and we choose these lives for fun, learning, for the challenge of learning to enjoy ourselves in this hellhole… Would we want to live as dogs, cats, cattle, insects, reptiles, blades of grass, plants, stones, mountains, cells, virus, atoms, computers, my SNES…?
I don't know, but anything is reasonable, wherever the line is drawn. And to the extent that there's a consciousness in these things, they'll go back to the afterlife once they're done here.
It's not harder than that.
a63b58 No.13208
>>11687
>It would stand to reason that at least parts of our consciousness stem out beyond space and time
O-ok… senpai…
000000 No.13225
From montalk.net
What do you believe what happens when you die?
First is an out of body experience. You might see your life flash before your eyes as the etheric body separates from the physical. Then you find yourself hovering over your dead body and maybe get to move around a bit.
At that point things start to vary.
Some people eject from their etheric body straight away enter straight into the light which they should see somewhere above them. That takes them into the astral and spirit realm where they undergo a more thorough life review for some time.
Otherwise, if they continue sticking around the physical environment, the etheric body starts disintegrating within 3-7 days. If they were particularly dark in life, they could be solicited by demons during this period. At that point it’s possible for them to suck energy from living beings in order to keep their etheric body from disintegrating. Then they become ghosts or phantoms, Earth-bound spirits. They can also attach themselves to animals of vulnerable humans and become spirit entity attachments.
Otherwise their etheric body dies and they increasingly lose touch with physical reality and begin “dreaming” as they shift from the etheric to the astral body and start entering the astral planes. So things become more dreamlike for them, which eventually becomes the more thorough life review.
In the astral planes, they run the risk of being ensnared by astral predators pretending to be priests or tribal gods or whatever appeals to their belief system. These are demons and other negative discarnate humans. If they died with heavy emotional baggage, psychological addictions, or programming, they can get stuck in these make-believe astral plane environments that appeal to that. There they stay until their astral body is sucked dry and shrivels away and they awaken like from a coma into their deeper, true, more impersonal spirit-centric consciousness. Then they’re free to finally move into the spirit realm.
In the spirit realm, having awoken from their previous stupidity, they have the foresight to plan for their next life and I guess get counsel or meet with other spirit beings. They see what more needs to be done and learned, and feel the call to return to do it right. So they are born again as humans eventually. Only, in many cases, to screw up again, and thus reincarnation keeps repeating.
032195 No.13226
Thoughts deteriorate, your brain stops functioning so brain signals stop functioning, brain signals are thoughts, no thoughts means brain can't create emotion or feelings or comprehension of anything, so you literally can no longer experience anything, because you are dead.
That is the scientific explanation, and unless you believe in spirits or souls and shit, then it makes sense if you consider other living organisms such as animals or plants or bacteria or sperm cells, and therefore that an afterlife cannot exist for anything.
Hooowever, I do believe there's a possibility that if humanity doesn't kill eachother for the next few million/billion years, perhaps we would have evolved or be intelligent enough to literally somehow bring every person back from the dead, and do whatever they want with us. Considering our current thoughts on scientific knowledge, ethics, and morality cannot possibly whatsoever reasonably estimate the [desperation for] knowledge/ethics/morality of a humanity millions of years from now, it is unsafe to assume anything. Maybe just before you die, your brainwaves/cells will then be, in a million years, re-visited again using some hyper-futuristic time-travelling way of harvesting information or data or matter, at which point you will experience waking up again, and have found that the future hyper evolved humanity has resurrected you and is playing a simulation/universe where you didn't die, or it has transported you into a realm that simulates heaven, or something like a place with 72 virgins, or even allows you to evolve and explain what has happened to humanity in the past few million years and then let you fly around as the new hyper human being.
I really don't fucking know, and such a theory is pretty much the scariest thing - that I will die, a huge time will pass but to me it will feel like 0 seconds, and then I will find myself awoken and in some dimension/realm/state that I am unfamiliar with and am confused and terrified.
6a2355 No.13283
>>337
if there is heaven or hell I am going to train hard for an infinite time and
KICK THE GOD'S FUCKING ASS FOR DOING THIS TO US
so don't worry anons, you can join me if you want
000000 No.13302
>>3794
Socrates has an argument for death that goes something along the lines of, "If you're not religious then death would be something like what happens when you have a good sleep. And they say that a long, dreamless sleep is a good one. So then of death." Or something like that. I think it's in The Apology somewhere.