Wayland

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File: 1456540947622.png (30.43 KB, 600x600, 1:1, 600px-Wayland_Logo.svg.png)

Wayland Anonymous 02/27/16 (Sat) 02:42:27 No.532302

Let's have a Wayland thread. What compositor and window manager are you using? On what distro?

People using Wayland, or planning to use Wayland, get in here.

What are your favourite applications that work great with Wayland?

I'm currently using Wayland on a daily basis in order to catch and report bugs.

Anonymous 02/27/16 (Sat) 03:18:26 No.532332

File: 1456543106103.png (363.28 KB, 940x529, 940:529, activities-overview-940x52….png)

I'll start with my own experiences, really hope to make this thread going so that more people get hyped and concider ditching their Xorg.

I use Parabola (Arch) with both gnome-shell and sway. I am not a fan of gnome-shell but currently use for reasons that are explained below. My hardware is an X240 (with removed wireless chip), that means Intel GPU. I've heard AMD GPUs should handle Wayland fine as well.

Positive:

Stability is great, in all the time I've been using it I had one single reproductible crash (more on that later).

To increase the amount of applications that run natively on Wayland, I have uninstalled gtk2. It only pulled out claws-mail and trayer, I can live with that. I'm not a fan of GNOME software, but they really did a good job making it work fine on Wayland, so I'm tolerating it. As file manager I use caja-gtk3, gnome-terminal as terminal. Most other GNOME apps run fine. Sometimes I run into segmentation faults but most of the time everything runs fine.

Negative:

I've had one crash. If connected to a VGA monitor/projector, on disconnecting the VGA cable from the computer, GNOME will kick me out of the session, disabling all extensions.

Unfortunately, some programs seem to have a much higher CPU usage than with Xorg. For example Pitivi and Glade (I develop GTK software so I definitely need it) make my fans spin up quite loudly.

My battery life also went down a little, probably related to my CPU heating up and the fans spinning up.

There doesn't seem to be a Wayland way of changing keyboard layouts yet (similar to configuring the InputClass in the Xorg.conf). GNOME supports it both in GDM and in the shell, but I haven't found a way to switch between layouts outside of GNOME (without completely exiting the session).

Other:

I'm still searching for a screen locker. GNOME has one built-in, I haven't tried using it outside of GNOME yet (would be great if that worked).

A GTK3 XMPP client (*not* Epiphany as it doesn't support any type of message encryption, piece of shit) would be great, both Pidgin and Gajim are GTK2 (while porting Pidgin to GTK3 is a WIP, Gajim is written in PyGTK and has to be ported to PyGObject, which will probably take a while).

Unfortunately most neat little window manager tools like dzen/lemonbar, trayer etc. are very Xorg-y.

Conclusion:

My experience is the following. If you mostly work in the browser and the terminal, there's not much that you will miss if you go full Wayland. If you are a GNOME 3 fan, most of your favourite applications are going to work just fine. If you edit videos, draw in GIMP or vectorize in Inkscape, things could get a little rough, but if you are willing to experience a few bugs, nothing is stopping you from using Wayland.

Pic slightly related, not my desktop but the default GNOME 3 image from GNOME's website.

Anonymous 02/27/16 (Sat) 03:33:38 No.532336

File: 1456544018774.png (613.05 KB, 1920x1080, 16:9, 68747470733a2f2f73722e6874….png)

I'm sure everybody is aware, but if you don't want to switch to Wayland because muh minimalistic setup – you don't have to use GNOME. There are several implementations of the tiling window manager concept for Wayland (pic related, it's sway, and i3-compatible wayland window manager).

The sway experience is still a little rough, if you're used to the "full" i3 you might miss some functionality (you can find more information on what is included and what isn't on their Github). Coming from dwm I actually didn't miss anything in particular except for the points stated in the above post (most importantly screen locker and keymap switcher).

In case you really happened to not notice: GNOME 3 users can try Wayland without installing anything at all! In your display manager, simply select the "GNOME (Wayland)" session instead of the default. As far as I know, GDM already uses Wayland anyways, so if you can properly see GDM you should also be able to run the GNOME Wayland session just fine.

As for sway, installation is easy as 1-2-3. In fact, you should already have everything you need preinstalled (except for sway, go install that) as Wayland is a dependency of a popular toolkit you probably already have installed.

"But I need muh Xorg or gtk2 applications" – IIRC even in this case using Wayland is better than Xorg, since XWayland is not running both Wayland and Xorg at the same time, but rather provides Xorg applications a way to be displayed on Wayland. The applications talk to XWayland, which then talks to Wayland. I might be mistaken, but Xorg is not actually involved into this process, an Xorg layer is just being emulated for Xorg applications.

"I'm still not convinced" – go read/watch something about Wayland (and Wayland vs. Xorg). After enough reading/watching you will be so disgusted that you will want to ditch Xorg immediately.

Anonymous 02/27/16 (Sat) 03:58:25 No.532344

I am running fedora and I will wait for the Fedora 24, witch will be default Wayland.

I'm sure they know what they are doing.

Anonymous 02/27/16 (Sat) 04:15:32 No.532363

>>532344

>I am running fedora and I will wait for the Fedora 24, witch will be default Wayland.

I can't wait, x11 through HDMI always leaves artifiacts on 2d draws.

I am hoping Wayland with remedy that.

I will wait for fedora to actually do it though, I have come to appreciate their retard workfag approach, I switched my Boss over to it.

Anonymous 02/27/16 (Sat) 04:31:20 No.532366

Wayland on Fedora 23 with GNOME shell but fuck GNOME programs they are a shit.

PCmanFM > nautilus

MATE calc > GNOME calc

VLC > videos

Anonymous 02/27/16 (Sat) 05:07:06 No.532383

>>532302

None, because I use Nvidia's drivers and don't have support.

At the moment it doesn't matter to me because I've tried Wayland on Intel and AMD and both experiences sucked. Wayland is not ready for users who need actual work done.

Anonymous 02/27/16 (Sat) 05:50:57 No.532409

>>532336

* Messages for package dev-libs/wlc-9999:

* ERROR: dev-libs/wlc-9999::zetok-overlay failed (unpack phase):

* git-2_initial_clone: can't fetch from https://github.com/Cloudef/wlc.git

I really want to ditch Xorg, trust me. It still has random crashes/lockups and I can't seem to run it rootless.

Anonymous 02/27/16 (Sat) 06:18:48 No.532420

>>532409

nevermind, fixed it

inherit git-2 makes the emerge process shit the bed for some reason

Anonymous 02/27/16 (Sat) 20:51:02 No.532778

>>532366

GNOME software sucks, but most of the MATE stuff works just as fine for me. Caja is breddy good, Pluma is O.K. if you need something else than vim, mate-system-monitor for your stats...

Anonymous 02/27/16 (Sat) 20:58:04 No.532781

>>532332

>I'm still searching for a screen locker. GNOME has one built-in, I haven't tried using it outside of GNOME yet (would be great if that worked).

Got some news. GNOME's screensaver is completely integrated in GNOME and can not be used separately. Fortunately, sway has its own locker, swaylock (which I only realized now for some reason). It's a little bit more simple than i3lock but you can specify backgroud color, background image and scaling, so that's cool.

Since sway is compatible with i3, you can easily use your i3status/i3blocks/whatever i3shit exists with swaybar. You can also use your own scripts, or conky, or...everything, really.

Anonymous 03/02/16 (Wed) 01:29:22 No.534947

>>532302

Running fedora 23

Enable wayland

Try steam through xwayland

Results in same effect as trying to play cs with a wacom tablet

Anonymous 03/05/16 (Sat) 05:58:28 No.536762

>>534947

Yeah, I didn't plat but the mouse is jumpy... or whatever that would be called. Also AFAIK still no mouse acceleration disable option.

Anonymous 03/05/16 (Sat) 15:13:42 No.536950

File: 1457190822101.png (35.22 KB, 226x234, 113:117, 1377902630516.png)

How is that Fedora 24 with Wayland by default coming along, folks?

Anonymous 03/07/16 (Mon) 16:33:36 No.538297

>>536950

I-I swear, t-the next F-fedora release will come with W-w-wayland by default. WAYLAND BY DEFAULT!

Anonymous 03/07/16 (Mon) 17:38:52 No.538345

File: 1457372332707.jpg (24.73 KB, 180x240, 3:4, 3610687659_445feb21a4_m.jpg)

https://archive.is/0wNmk

>try a wayland session in 24 right now, you wont even notice a difference!

>can't copy-paste, can't middle-click

Anonymous 03/07/16 (Mon) 17:41:29 No.538348

>>532344

I have bad news for you. Wayland is not going to be default in Fedora 24. This week was a blog post about it I think. While Wayland sessions is working really good for some minor missing features is still not going to be default. Expect in Fedora 25.

Anonymous 03/08/16 (Tue) 22:02:45 No.539224

>>532332

>To increase the amount of applications that run natively on Wayland, I have uninstalled gtk2.

>Using everything GTK3

I'd rather pull a Kurt Cobain.

Just genuinely curious too, I love to play old Loonix games like SoF and UT2004. If I'm correct, playing these on Wayland has to go through xwayland and decreases performance right? Does Wine even have Wayland support?

Anonymous 03/08/16 (Tue) 22:15:38 No.539235

>>536950

I don't know why but this picture is making me laugh like crazy.

Anonymous 03/08/16 (Tue) 22:17:22 No.539236

>>539224

No, it does not. They said its planned in the abstract though

Anonymous 03/08/16 (Tue) 22:18:42 No.539237

>>538297

Its working pretty well actually. It depends on how fast Firefox is ported. They have a checklist on their wiki, last time I checked it was pretty far along. Otherwise Wayland is already being used for gdm since like last year.

Anonymous 03/08/16 (Tue) 22:21:41 No.539241

>>539236

I see, what about my first question?

Anonymous 03/08/16 (Tue) 23:36:26 No.539288

>>539241

Yes it'd have to go through xwayland. It hasn't reached performance parity yet but its not terrible.

Anonymous 03/08/16 (Tue) 23:37:32 No.539292

>>538345

Depends on the compositor. copy pasting is in gnome and so is middle click.

Anonymous 03/09/16 (Wed) 04:40:45 No.539421

>>532336

How can I install KWin without wasting disk space by sucking in all of KDE with it?

Anonymous 03/09/16 (Wed) 08:05:17 No.539482

>>539421

KWin isn't Wayland-ready yet anyway.

Anonymous 03/18/16 (Fri) 01:13:58 No.545428

>>532344

CentOS is already offering waylandified GNOME and KDE as the default DEs.

Anonymous 03/18/16 (Fri) 01:34:28 No.545435

>>532344

I've been running it by default on Arch for months.

Only major problem is xwayland and video games with libinput. Some small bugs, other than that, but it's working right now.

I just switch to a default GNOME session to play vidya every once in a while. Oh, and extensions keep getting turned off when I do so, so that's annoying.

But nothing is seriously broke if you just browse the web, email, and have terminals open to edit text or whatever.

Hell, even yanking to system and pasting into vim is working.

Anonymous 03/18/16 (Fri) 01:41:36 No.545441

>What compositor and window manager are you using? On what distro?

compton, openbox, gentoo. I'd use xwayland without complaint if there was any advantage to switching right now. I used to use xgl for compiz after all.

Anonymous 03/18/16 (Fri) 02:33:04 No.545468

>>532302

NEVER.

XORG TILL I DIE FROM DRIVER CONFIG STRESS.

SUCK MY XORG.CONF SCHLONG

Anonymous 03/18/16 (Fri) 03:21:38 No.545489

>>532302

Oh no not this meme again.

Anonymous 03/18/16 (Fri) 04:56:56 No.545519

File: 1458277016384.jpg (41.02 KB, 500x490, 50:49, Only_the_dead_can_know_pea….jpg)

>>545468

>there exist in the same universe as you xorg fanboys

Anonymous 03/18/16 (Fri) 06:38:11 No.545539

>>532344

Wasn't Wayland supposed to be default on Fedora 20? I would'nt count on it

Anonymous 03/18/16 (Fri) 07:06:37 No.545549

>>545539

No one ever said that. It was only until the last release that they said they were targetting it. And now they have a checklist showing how far they have to go, what's missing, what needs fixed on their wiki. They're pretty close, actually.

Anonymous 03/18/16 (Fri) 11:45:24 No.545625

2016 year of the wayland desktop...

Anonymous 03/18/16 (Fri) 14:16:25 No.545681

I have been hearing about Wayland this Wayland that for four years now and it still hasn't been properly adopted by anyone except GNOME (which on Wayland is a buggy piece of shit and missing functionality).

Anonymous 03/18/16 (Fri) 14:33:46 No.545695

So how does Wayland handle config files and xorg drivers? What is the Wayland equivalent of xorg.conf? And will xorg drivers work with Wayland?

Anonymous 03/18/16 (Fri) 14:52:50 No.545714

>>545695

>So how does Wayland handle config files and xorg drivers?

It doesn't

>What is the Wayland equivalent of xorg.conf?

There isn't one.

>And will xorg drivers work with Wayland?

No.

Anonymous 03/18/16 (Fri) 15:03:34 No.545717

File: 1458313415012.jpg (140.69 KB, 468x596, 117:149, 1458253624962.jpg)

>>545714

Something tells me I should be taking your post with a grain of salt and instead ask for a proper citation

Anonymous 03/18/16 (Fri) 16:39:42 No.545782

>>545717

Any driver which is open source works with wayland. It doesn't use x11 video drivers.

It directly links against Mesa, the openGL library, in order to do 3D/2D acceleration.

x11 video drivers are a hack that were created to interface between the xorg server and mesa.

Anonymous 03/18/16 (Fri) 16:49:49 No.545785

>>545782

But isn't Mesa slow as fuck though?

Anonymous 03/18/16 (Fri) 16:53:54 No.545788

>>545785

U wot m8.

Mesa isn't slow, just some parts of it like nouveau (shitty open source nvidia driver) and swrast (software rasterizer)

Though last I heard the proprietary nvidia driver was going to be built with Wayland support.

Anonymous 03/19/16 (Sat) 02:41:15 No.546204

Tried wayland out again yesterday.

Hawaii crashes when I try out basic functionality.

I suspect it tsn't suppose to work outside it's distro anyway.

Gnome looks stable, but I couldn't tolerate the UI.

I probably could use Sway if I spend week on configuring it, I think, but I don't have time right now. Weston-terminal keeps crashing, and mouse pointer acts weird.

Orbment seems dead I still don't undersatnd and really mourn the name change

There's other compositors, but I run out of strength by that point. Maybe some other time.

Also, tty bug (system dies if I try to switch to console with Ctrl+Alt+Fn and back) is a huge deal breaker right now.

I'd be running wayland no problem if I could switch back and fourth between X and Wayland in case of any troubles,

Anonymous 03/19/16 (Sat) 02:52:10 No.546212

>>546204

>Orbment seems dead I still don't undersatnd and really mourn the name change

Orbment and Sway share the same basic component, wlc. I set it up Sway on my netbook, it's okay, but just went back to i3.

Otherwise I use wayland on my desktop with GNOME and it is pretty stable. The bugs are overblown, it's mainly problems with gtk3 toolkit under wayland when dragging windows and base gnome applications like the image viewer not responsing to, say, scroll wheel events, file manager randomly grabbing something on click (but not really registering when released somewhere.) Nothing catastrophic.

Anonymous 03/19/16 (Sat) 03:36:17 No.546228

>>546204

Not promising anything, but I got an idea for a bspwm-inspired compositor/wm that I want to work on.

Basics:

bspwm/bspc client server split.

gimped compositor

sxhkd implementation for Wayland (receives button press events from compositor)

If you want a flow chart,

button press->compositor->program

Or if the compositor receives a hotkey, the flow would look like this:

button press->compositor->hkd->run program

If the program is bspc then:

button press->compositor->hkd->bspc->bspwm->compositor

Seems like a roundabout way to do it, but on the other hand the other way I could do this is by combining the hotkey daemon and the compositor, but that wouldn't be the unix way, now would it? :^)

Anonymous 03/22/16 (Tue) 03:27:41 No.548199

is way land even gud?

Anonymous 03/22/16 (Tue) 03:32:30 No.548201

No terminals as performant and advanced as xterm and urxvt ran natively

I was limtied to really fucking terrible programs in general

not worth "wow no tearing" and "elegant software architecture", or having to rely on individual compositors for everything when on X your desktop is pretty much modular

Anonymous 03/22/16 (Tue) 03:35:55 No.548202

>>548201

>xterm and urxvt

And yet they run just fine under it, and isolated from each other to boot. Well, depending on the xwayland configuration that is.

>when on X your desktop is pretty much modular

That's a good joke.

Anonymous 03/22/16 (Tue) 07:40:44 No.548296

>>545717

Wayland is a protocol, it doesn't have configuration files and doesn't support drivers.

Each implementation of wayland will have its own configuration files. X.org drivers are x.org specific and can not be used anywhere else, wayland implementations are supposed to use kernel drivers through DRM (direct rendering, not digital rights) instead.

Anonymous 03/22/16 (Tue) 08:50:42 No.548309

File: 1458636642967.gif (123.96 KB, 300x200, 3:2, AAAAAAAA.gif)

Relevant thread: >>548142

It hasn't even hit the Arch repos yet, but I'm excited.

Anonymous 03/23/16 (Wed) 21:39:19 No.549240

So just popping in out of curiosity.

I know that clipboards on Linux desktops are handled by x11, but if Wayland doesn't use a server of any kind, and is just a protocol (according to what I've heard) how does it handle the clipboard?

Anonymous 03/24/16 (Thu) 03:43:11 No.549432

>>549240

The compositor handles it.