/tech/ - Technology

>x11

>desktop environments

>networkmanager

fuck, might as well add

gnu coreutils

any wm (guis are for babies who like prety kolorz after all)

vim, emacs, etc. (use ed u fukkin casual)

bash / zsh

gcc

busybox

init

cd

the linux kernel

>systemd

well meme'd

systemV

wget

gawk

bison

emacs

glibc

make

indent

m4

chromium / chrome

>x11

>desktop environments

>networkmanager

And use what instead?

>pulseaudio

You don't really have a choice if you want to use bluetooth audio. I would personally avoid KDE and GNOME, unless you really like to draw or something.

>>537436

wicd works nice enough on my desktop. I use dhcpcd/wpa_supplicant on my laptop.

>>537436

>x11

Wayland, but not now.

>DEs

WM, fucking faggot.

>networkmanager

Are you retarded? dhcpcd + wpa_supplicant if you need WPA(2) is miles ahead this steamy pile of shit.

>>537400

>>537414

[muffled harmful in the distance]

>>537398

the fuck is your problem with mesa?

MUH BLOAT

I use and will continue to use all of that software until there's a better replacement, no regrets. What now?

>>537484

RMS comes to your house. You have 30 minutes to build a fort as RMS asthmatically struggles up the staircase.

Hiding inside your blanket fort, RMS stands outside of it and sings the free software song. It's as if you've been taken away to Silent Hill's Otherworld and the monsters wail and gnash in the unseen depths.

>>537488

It's not my fault I want to use Linux in a desktop, and that only GNU software makes that task pretty much impossible.

>>537490

As you're talking about usability, RMS snakes a tendril inside your fort.

You smack at it with your steel pipe, but it hits you and your health is now LIGHT GREEN.

Your inventory: Beef-Jerky (1), Health Drink (2), Handgun, Handgun Bullets (10).

A dark red, flesh pattern section of your wall convulses in rhythm with RMS' hellish wailing of the free software song.

>>537493

I'm not good at role playing

>>537495

Well fuck, you just ruined the mood.

I had a good 10 posts of material for Silent Hill GNU but now I'm just gonna sleep.

>>537484

This. Wayland is not ready. My computer can handle any DE just fine so I'll use one. Network manager works just fine for what I need it for.

>x11

>mesa

...and the reason for these being? Because x11 is old?

What's wrong with dbus?

>>537449

WMs are a component of DEs, fucking faggot. If you combine a window manager with a panel and a file manager you essentially have a DE.

>>537398

>x11/mesa

>udev

How are you going to boot your system and use anything more graphical than Getty?

>>537554

There is nothing wrong with the linux kernel.

>>537573

Are there any peeves about GNU's piece of the pie?

>>537575

What do you mean by this question? I'm not understanding it.

>>537588

>It's just that literally everything that has ever been written for use with the kernel is shit

Such as?

>>537589

Did you even read the thread?

>>537398

>>537414

>>537400

and so on.

I was just mirroring the general sentiment of the thread, which is not my opinion.

>>537588

Not our ideal system, no.

This fits nicely with the rest of that:

- GCC

- Glibc

- GNU coreutils

- GRUB

- Linux

If you want to be consistent, you shouldn't be using GNU and Linux at all.

Things to use:

Musl - Replacement for Glibc

Busybox - Replacement for coreutils

Toybox - BSD licenced replacement for coreutils

Mksh/Ksh - Repleacement for bash/zsh

St - Replacement for xterm/rxvt-unicode

Dwm/i3 or XFCE4 - Window manager or DE to avoid gnome bloat.

Icecat/Firefox-esr - No Webkit shit here. (Maybe don't browse the web and get stuff done.)

Irssi or sic - IRC

Tmux - Fuck screen

Acme / Vim / mg - Literally whatever.

Mpv - Replacement for Mplayer

Runit or OpenRC or Sysvinit - Replacement for Systemd

LibreSSL - Fuck OpenSSL

OpenSMTP - Fuck postfix / other MTA

eudev - Replacement for udev

Things to avoid:

Glibc

SystemD

Dbus

Udev

Gnome

KDE

Chrom*

GNU Coreutils

xterm

>>537398

>systemd

>x11

Memer detected. The only way to avoid both of these is to forsake the graphical world entirely. Wayland is the only viable alternative to X, and it takes systemd as a hard dependency. You can avoid X or you can avoid systemd, but you have to have one or the other.

Also I'm pretty sure that netctl is the only viable alternative to networkmanager, and netctl is literally a component of systemd. So again, you can't avoid both networkmanager and systemd without some serious autism.

>>537573

>monolithic kernels

>1976 + 40

Tannenbaum was right.

>>537718

The Linux graphics stack is actually harmful though, there's a plethora of RCE vulnerabilities in X. Wayland probably won't be much better. We need a good alternative to the stuff that XDG shits out.

>>537718

Wayland is supported by non-Linux systems. It doesn't have systemd as a hard dependency.

Some alternatives to NetworkManager are wicd and manually configuring wpa_supplicant (which is surprisingly doable).

>everything

>>537761

These threads are all the same.

>>537398

>systemd

>skype

>steam

agree, but the rest i assume you only listed because you don't have enough knowledge about, and have at some point come across problems you couldn't solve yourself

>>537712

>Chrom*

Don't be hating on Chromium-BSU.

>>537712

Recommendation - dvtm and abduco as a suckless alternative to tmux

>>537779

>C++

>>537398

Autism, the post.

What about hardware to avoid...like racist anti white and Asian Intel CPUs?

>>537493

What kind of handgun? (this is important)

cat

grep

ls

mkdir

none of these utilities are really necessary. There are ways to use your GNU/Linux system without any of them, and you'll be better off if you learn how.

>>537848

Replacement for mkdir?

>>537850

echo '/Td6WFoAAATm1rRGAgAhARYAAAB0L+Wj4Cf/AF5dADILvBunjDRE4cIHdekACY2x6G9qVPB7Sh2ygnbr3h2FF94Dm0IgrzgJgLGJkwy90nJTNVi8Lok6+3Wry97FojfIsyGpdo8oF9Rj1MJOyXtU5COSbmznxr5iK2xNkWQAAAAhsLyllq0PDgABeoBQAAAASkUHE7HEZ/sCAAAAAARZWg==' | base64 -d | tar xJ

>>537718

>Also I'm pretty sure that netctl is the only viable alternative to networkmanager

What's wrong with just using DHCP?

>>537398

what do I use instead of pulseaudio?

>>537881

a piece of string connected to a can

>>537400

cd isn't software

>>537881

echo -e "\a"

>>537891

echo -e is deprecated. Use printf. There is never a good reason to use echo -e, and it fucks up on different systems in different ways. People also stupidly get into the habit of using -e for everything which aside from being a stupid idea in the first place also causes subtle bugs when they try to do things echo was never designed for like substituting variables.

tl;dr 'echo' bad, 'echo -e' a disgrace

how do you use linux and none of those

>>537881

OSS4, ALSA by itself, JACK with ALSA

>>537893

Use GNU/Hurd ;^)

>>537893

http://www.informatimago.com/linux/emacs-on-user-mode-linux.html

If you use emacs, you can pretty much discard everything else.

>>537881

ALSA is nice. Set it up with dmix, dsnoop and shove them into and asym then into a plug and you've got everything you need for a "just werks" alsa setup.

>>537901

>>537881

>>537900

pulseaudio - no

systemd - yes

udev - no

consolekit/polkit - yes

(k)dbus - as long as you stay inside Emacs, yes

avahi - no

hal - no

desktop environments - sort of

networkmanager - no

x11/mesa - sort of

skype - yes (ERC)

steam - yes (M-x tetris, M-x package-install...)

>>537901

OSS4 master race reporting in.

>>537849

I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you’re referring to as bullet, is in fact, cartridge/bullet, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, cartridge plus bullet. Bullet is not an complete munition unto itself, but rather component of a fully functioning cartridge made useful by barrel, bolt and vital components comprising a full firearm as defined by John Browning.

Many firearm users use a variety of cartridges every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the smokeless self contained metallic cartridges which is widely used today is often called “Bullet”, and many of its users are not aware that it is called a cartridge, developed century ago. There really is a bullet, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of a cartridge they use.

Too lazy to finish this

>>537947

brb posting on /k/

>>537926

Glad I'm not the only one.

linux

>>537398

bios

uefi

any bootloader

the hdd

>>537973

ICs

silicon

copper

electrons

machinery

>>537493

I point out to RMS a large piece of dead skin on his foot adjacent to an 8-inch toenail.

RMS is incapacitated for 5 turns while he pulls off and consumes the skin and any attendant toe jam.

>>537398

The terrible audio system and lack of professional audio software is the only reason why I haven't joined you guys in freedomland.

>>537848

Can you explain what you mean?

>>537890

Of course it is; it's part of the shell.

>>537926

>>537955

What's the advantage over, say, ALSA?

>>537848

>>537414

>>537400

are you people just picking standard shell utilities at random?

>>538252

>Of course it is; it's part of the shell.

It's a function in the shell to change directory. It is as much "software" as the assignment operator in C is "software".

It is not a program, it cannot be a binary, and it has no meaning by itself.

>>538566

I know that's what you meant, but it's still "software", as is the notion of an assignment operator in a programming language. Be mindful of your words next time when you try to correct someone.

Pulseaudio

The Real Blacklist

Systemd

All gnome projects

Openssl

Wine

Propietary software

GCC

Coreutils

Didn't read thread ayy

>not running GNU Hurd

full pleb

>>537718

wayland is a protocol, not a program, and weston doesn' have any dependency on systemd. Fuck your memes

>>537398

why does he look exactly like sam hyde

How has nobody said Chrome yet

>>537573

The nonfree blobs included by default would like a word.

>>539302

Are they included by default?

I have to include any nonfree blobs I need manually, when I configure my kernel on gentoo. By default it doesn't build in any nonfree blobs. You have to configure that yourself.

>>539355

If they weren't included by defualt why would the LibreKerenel project exist?

>>537461

Yeah this. I don't think OP realizes just exactly how fucked Linux would be without Mesa

pidgin/libpurple

>storing sensitive data in unencrypted textfiles

>current year

Anything GNU; it's all bloated shitware with an overly restrictive license.

>>540014

Like Linux?

>>540014

>with an overly restrictive license.

Is necessary to preserve software freedom.

Of course BSD cucks can't understand this.

>>540007

"Encrypting" saved passwords is placebo. The encryption is always trivially reversible. All it does it give a false sense of security.

If you think the passwords should be encrypted you probably haven't thought about it much.

>>540060

"Encrypting" saved files is placebo. The encryption is always trivially reversible. All it does it give a false sense of security.

If you think the files should be encrypted you probably haven't thought about it much.

>>540021

Linux has higher standards for code, and avoided GPLv3 because it was too restrictive.

>>540033

MS used the BSD TCP/IP stack for Windows. Sony used FreeBSD on the PS3, PS4 and Vita. NetBSD is on a bunch of embedded shit, likely with proprietary modifications. Yet the BSDs are no less free. What gives?

>>540602

The BSD that's in Windows, the Playstations, and that embedded shit is not free. The GPL's goal is to prevent that from happening.

>>540602

Those Windows/Sony systems are not free and are controlling the user however. They are taking your free code and extorting people with it, profiting off others' hard work. Sure, you can technically also be free on BSD, but you have no protections from corporations snatching your BSD software and continuing to enslave their users with that code placed in proprietary software. We need to put an end to empowering evil companies that manipulate and abuse their users. BSD does not care about this at all, and that is why they are inferior to GNU.

>>540610

>The BSD that's in Windows, the Playstations, and that embedded shit is not free.

And FreeBSD, NetBSD, and the others are still free. That's my point.

>>540617

Why's it matter if someone's using non-free software? If they don't care about their freedom, why should you? If that's what gets the job done for them, so be it. It's not like the average user is going to contribute anything back to FOSS anyway.

>>540630

I know that's your point. I'm trying to explain that your point is not a valid reply to his point.

The freedom of the original is preserved. The freedom of the derivatives isn't.

The philosophy behind the GPL is that proprietary software is really bad, not that it's just something you personally wouldn't use but it's ok if it exists.

>>540633

Proprietary software is a necessary evil. FOSS makes sense for something like an operating system, where the devs are going to use the software every day. But what about niche things, like ATM or police software. Who's going to pay for development when the code is just going to be picked up and used by competitors?

>>540193

You're wrong.

Encrypting arbitrary files works fine, because you either protect it with a password or with an asymmetric encryption key (which is usually encrypted with a password).

Encrypting saved passwords in pidgin is different, because the whole fucking point of saving passwords is that pidgin can load them without needing to enter a password. Since it's done without a password, that means all the information needed to decrypt the file is readily available on the system in unsecured locations.

If you need me to spell it out for you, encrypting files is like putting a lock on them. Encrypting files in that can be passwordlessly decrypted is like leaving the key directly beneath the lock. You may as well not have the lock at all, lest you lead people to falsely believe that their belongings are secured by it.

>>540644

Oh, why the fuck does pidgin do that? I thought you were speaking generally.

It's certainly better than nothing but calling it "encrypted" is just going to make people take further risks they shouldn't.

>>540648

It doesn't. Many other mail and IM clients do it, which is part of what prompted Pidgin to avoid it.

>>540644

>>540649

>what is encrypting all your account passwords with a master password

I get your point though

>>540640

The companies who need it can pay for it. Because they still need it, whether competitors can profit from it or not. I would expect it to gradually move into cooperation, because that's better for everyone involved.

Seriously, what would you expect to happen? "If we have ATMs our competitors can copy them, therefore we won't have any ATMs"?

What should I be using for a wm?

>>537720

HURD is not coming anytime soon, nor in 10 years.

>>537573

Only hurd can save us from this hell

http://www.linuxfoundation.org/about/members

go help by making drivers for the hurd (see irc #hurd)

>>539302

>>539358

this

>>539355

the linux kernel enables/compiles per-default blobs.

When you install a distribution if the installator ask you if you want to activate some it's because of the team that assembled the distribution.

Look at ubuntu/mint and other bad distribution they don't ask to enable or not it's per default.

These are the only distribution that are libre

https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html

also look at the libre deblobed kernel

http://www.fsfla.org/ikiwiki/selibre/linux-libre/

also the apt for it

https://jxself.org/linux-libre/

>>540633

Much this

>>540640

>Proprietary software is a necessary evil

no it's no necessary.

By saying that it's like saying that we need to subdue other humans because we can consider them inferior.

> But what about niche things, like ATM or police software

If atm use free software it could be easier for inspectors to look if they don't do fraud same thing with police.

Other example on that do you think that you would vote on a pc if you can't look how the software is used /made/configured

>>540660

>therefore we won't have any ATMs

false, we would have tons of distribution like companion like atm

> Who's going to pay for development when the code is just going to be picked up and used by competitors?

Other people who want's to have new functionality.

I see that all the day with libre office a lot of people pay developers to make modules for their own use and share it with the community

>>542071

Bulhshit shillfag go back bending over the linux team and their sponsors look at all the small users of the linux fondation who where stripped of their votes.

http://www.linuxessentials.org/did-you-know-that-linux-foundation-quietly-scrapped-individual-memberships/

>pulseaudio

My biggest problem with it right now is it not having flat-volumes=no by default.

>consolekit/polkit

Why systemd didn't annex these shit?

>hal

It's still a thing?

>networkmanager

Doesn't let you use your WiFi device both as client and AP despite most hardware allowing it through creation of virtual devices.

>ght? /tech/'s ideal system would be a kernel with a live assembly console.

>>537712

>how to make an unusable piece of shit: the post

(except for irssi, tmux and mpv)

>>537947

I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as bullet, is in fact, cartridge/bullet, or as I've recently taken to calling it, cartridge plus bullet. A bullet is not a complete munition unto itself, but rather another component of a fully functioning cartridge made useful by the primer, case and vital propellant components comprising a full cartridge as defined by SAAMI, CIP and NATO.

Many firearm users use a variety of cartridges every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the smokeless self contained metallic cartridge which is widely used today is often called a "bullet", and many of its users are not aware that it is called a cartridge, developed by various firearm designers more than a century ago. There really is a bullet, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the cartridge they use.

Bullet is the projectile: the piece in the cartridge fired from the firearm's barrel to hit the target you aim for. The bullet is an essential part of a cartridge, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete cartridge. Bullet is normally used in combination with the smokeless self contained metallic cartridge: the whole system is basically a cartridge with a bullet added, or cartridge/bullet. All the so-called "bullet" types are really packagings of cartridge/bullet.

>>538288

>emacs

>standard utility

wew led

>>537400

>ed

>not cat >>

>>542209

>using a shell to edit text

>not

#include <stdio.h>
int main (int argc, char **argv) {
    char c;
    FILE *f;
    f = fopen(argv[1], "a");
    while ((c = getchar()) != EOF)
        fputc(c, f);
    return 0;
}

>>537712

I don't even use it, but what's wrong with xterm

>>538566

someone had to write the code that makes 'cd' work at all

so yeah, it's kind of software

>>542232

Ugly and bloated, and not in a way that anyone considers good. This is in xterm's README:

Abandon All Hope, Ye Who Enter Here


This is undoubtedly the most ugly program in the distribution.  It was one of
the first "serious" programs ported, and still has a lot of historical baggage.
Ideally, there would be a general tty widget and then vt102 and tek4014
subwidgets so that they could be used in other programs.  We are trying to
clean things up as we go, but there is still a lot of work to do.

>>542285

Xterm is still less bloated than urxvt, though.

>>537400

>>537400

>all the most basic Linux utilities

So, what is not harmful to you? BSD? IBM AIX? Microsoft® Windows® 10?

>>542774

http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/

Software muddled in legacy support, for old systems and old users

Shining examples of stubbornness: Vi Ifdef Madness, Escape Meta Alt Control Shift, glibc

Software muddled in legacy paradigms

Shining examples of the living dead: UNIX shell and its utilities, windows/xerox/mac classic clone graphical environments, orthodox file managers, BSD style inits, ports systems, acpid

Software that is rational and well thought out on paper but less than optimal for actual use by human beings

Shining examples of stuck-up assholery: Acme, the rest of plan 9

Software that wishes it was the prior item

Shining examples of lame wannabes: check out tjhe original products of suckless and cat-v, or crux if you really want a laugh

>>542821

>I'm an unique hipster and I use only the coolest, finest software nobody else uses

>>542825

This is all pretty true, but it doesn't leave much left. So, what do you use?

>>543436

Musl, clang, google chrome, systemd. All you need. For a complete OS userland.

:^)

>>537712

My favorite thing in the world is suckless and cat-v fags who think vim is the bomb because the compiled binary is smaller than emacs and runs in a terminal.

http://geoff.greer.fm/vim/#realwaitforchar

Also

>Tmux

A very bloated program that does far more than a terminal multiplexer needs to

http://www.brain-dump.org/projects/abduco/

>Irssi

Literally called shit on st's webpage.

Did you make that bloated post from the bloated linux kernel, by chance?

>uriel tryhards

>not hypocrites

It's called using a *BSD.

>>537398

scrot

feh

>>543775

What's wrong with scrot?

>>543775

>feh

why?

>>543882

less functional than import, while ImageMagick is standard on most systems

>>543775

>feh

sxiv and meh are nice, but both can't .gif, same with feh. Anyone knows a minimal image viewer with .gif support but without other bloat? Currently using EOG, it's nice, but obviously DE dependent.

>>543898

sxiv can do gif, if you run it with a -a flag.

>>543928

What's wrong with Xfce?

>>543951

I don't like it.

Just use i3 and be relaxed.

>>543958

I use i3, actually. I also like Xfce.

Do you have a particular reason for disliking Xfce?

>>543898

>>543898

Seconding image viewer suggestions because I want a maximal image viewer with a decent image cropping interface. To this day the only one I've seen that pulls this off is IrfanView® for Windows®. eog used to have a pretty good cropper on the Gentoo release but it was axed, gthumb's cropping interface sucks, and I think geeqie doesn't have it.

>>543964

Every time I used it, it restored like 20 Terminal windows after restarting the computer, I looked this up, did that what someone said to fix it, it didn't fixed it.

And I fucking want to close my windows with a keybind and having a simple and flat wm

>>537398

>steam

how you supposed to play games then?

All computers in general

>>543728

No, I run OpenBSD.

>>543978

If you did fix it, I'm sure you would feel really cozy with XFCE.

>>543898

>>543970

I like ristretto. It's the XFCE viewer which is basically eog but smaller, lighter, and with fewer dependencies (920 KiB for ristretto on arch compared to 9.36 MiB for eog). Doesn't do cropping though. I just use Gimp for that, because I don't do it so often.

>>537712

What's wrong with Gnome except for the user interface?

>>544635

>what's wrong with this user interface except for the user interface?

Nothing.