No.537623
I'm here to shill about µchan, message board software I'm working on.
µchan is a modern take on internet messaging board software. µchan takes a dynamic approach and generates pages when they are requested. On top of that is a good caching mechanism, so that responses are delivered just as fast as static files.
Demo: https://uchan.plebco.de/
Source code: https://github.com/Floens/uchan
Use this board to test the posting performance: https://uchan.plebco.de/test/
Please refer to the roadmap to see what has been implemented and what is on the todo list.
https://github.com/Floens/uchan/issues/1
Most of the roadmap items have been implemented in the last 2 weeks, see the commits on github.
This thread is for the general discussion of µchan and maybe if it's an appropriate solution for the problems the current software of 8ch is having.
I also need a logo, the current favicon is just recycled from Clover.
No.537626
>generates pages when they are requested
Have you bench marked that?
It would be interesting to see how it performs in comparison to Next with its 20 - 60 requests per second and nntpchan with its 200 - 600 requests per second.
No.537628
Shouldn't you be fixing clover first Floens?
No.537629
>>537626
It uses varnish, so all the get requests are straight up delivered from memory. There is no point in benchmarking that really, because that will be just as fast as static files.
What you could benchmark for the get requests is the performance without varnish. You can do that right now by setting some bogus cookie and thus bypassing varnish. All those requests are rendered by µchan. But again, almost everyone will see the varnished version.
The big gain in this approach is the posting speed, as explained on the sticky on /test/ here https://uchan.plebco.de/test/view/271
>>537628
v2 runs fine right now afaik. I haven't dropped it.
No.537632
>>537626
would need a more beefy setup to handle an 8ch.net tier firehose again but when it comes to template generation I believe it's probably at 600 regens per second on average, meaning theoretical hard limit on a 1 core vps is 600 pps given no images or attachments. BUT with a constant stream of big attachments the max pps threshold is probably around ~5pps given the current hardware my instance is running on, this is because of thumbnail generation.
No.537633
>>537623
Since you are releasing the source, I assume you are open to help, which I would be happy to provide, given the chance (busy with school and a personal project atm).
Just posting to say that I would be glad to help. Im not quite sure what you mean by "generates pages when they are requested" though. What is your gimmick? I know it sounds ugly to call it a gimmick, but every big site has one. Why should I choose uchan (I know, I know, its microchan. Im so lazy that it is easier to type this whole bullshit out than to c/p the micro char). Why should I choose uchan over 8chan or 4chan?
Not rhetorical questions to be a dick, Im just trying to get you thinking about the project (or at least thinking about how to elaborate on the project).
Im still on board to help, though whatever help I submit may be sparse, admittedly, with my CS projects coming up, but Ive been looking for a new project to commit to.
No.537634
>>537632
oh this is nntpchan by teh way
No.537635
>>537629
>200ms to update the thread, board and catalog caches in a full board like this.
Then you have the same problem that current vichan does.
You don't actually need to immediately cache all of these pages when a post is made, just caching the thread should give you better performance.
No.537642
>>537633
I would appreciate all help.
There's no big gimmick. Maybe it's that it supports plugins (or at least will support). The biggest advantage is in my opinion that's it's clean code and uses a modern approach. That is no file generation, and proper caching.
>>537635
When someone makes a post the worker thread repopulates the thread cache that was posted in, and updates the board/catalog cache. Note that it is updating the cache, and someone requesting a page (without varnish) while the worker thread does it thing will not be delayed.
I could do it the "traditional" way, by just deleting the cache key and regenerating the thread on request, but this will cause a cache stampede.
No.537668
>>537640
There is nothing wrong with python
No.537676
>>537668
http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/php.html
If by "nothing wrong" you mean "slower than FUCKING PHP" then yeah, sure there's nothing wrong.
No.537698
>>537640
>programming languages
No.537699
>>537668
It's slow as shit nigger.
Drop the whole codebase and write it in a proper language.
No.537706
>>537668
Except that it's an ugly language compared to ruby, slow compared to java, inferior compared to clojure, and useless compared to rust.
No.537715
No.537716
>>537676
>>537699
>>537706
Not him or floens, what language would use for this rather than python?
No.537723
>>537676
Then why is WaW so much faster than >BLOC?
No.537725
I would like some feedback from you guys.
Noticed any bugs? Want something to be put on the roadmap? Please do tell me.
I've also set up the channel #uchan on Rizon.
No.537744
>>537725
posting seems to have a noticable delay.
When browsing the catalog and clicking on an op image I'd like to be taken to the thread (just personal preference though)
also
>python
No.537750
>>537744
>posting seems to have a noticable delay.
Not recorded on my side, I see quick POST responses here. What did you post?
>When browsing the catalog and clicking on an op image I'd like to be taken to the thread
Yeah I made it like Clover, but maybe the whole thing should be one link.
No.537754
>>537750
No idea what clover is. I posted a small comment. However I had js disabled for your demo site, not sure if that plays into it.
No.537755
>>537754
>I had js disabled
hipster
No.537759
>>537755
Nice reddit formatting.
No.537777
Oh boy, more imageboard software.
Why are you not invalidating varnish cache? You're just relying on TTL right now right.
Props for flask though, its been my favorite for a while. Ignore the language shitposters, its not like they can contribute anything. I just don't understand the need for yet another imageboard project since document level caching is so easy to implement but at least since we can't use next thanks to hotwheels ego we won't have to worry about lynx' idiocy destroying this place.
No.537778
>>537777
At least you can get quads, josh.
:^)
No.537794
>>537777
>Why are you not invalidating varnish cache? You're just relying on TTL right now right.
I just haven't done that just yet, but it's on the todo list.
>Why another project?
It's just a fun project for me, and if 8chan can benefit from it that's just great. I believe the current options for message board software are all coded like crap, so I want to do my own take on it.
No.537796
>>537794
>so I want to do my own take on it.
Except that you are forking an old engine.
No.537797
>>537777
>we can't use next thanks to hotwheels ego
I thought that was due to Josh's shitty code.
No.537799
>>537778
Hi josh suck my dick, cripple and his codependent relationship that had a falling out was pathetic, like sped classroom drama.
>>537794
Fair enough, I thought you had volunteered in #autism-dev
Its very clean, nice project. Not to knock it but shit's orders of magnitude worse than the torrent client ecosystem at this point.
No.537801
>>537797
Document level caching is in Next now, probably attributes mutator or w/e in the ORM is the thing that should optimized or turned off to approach sanic fast.
No.537826
>>537801
You haven't touched your project in over 2 weeks according to github. Why should anyone care at this point Josh? Unless you plan to finish it, and do something to fix the situation between you and hotwheels there is no reason to even speak about infinity never.
No.537841
>>537826
>implying josh
Its free software, you don't need to have the creator's permission to finish it. There's no reason to finish it because hotwheels ego makes an effort sink untenable. Not that many were contributing to it before because your average /tech/ user is an incompetent manchild or in the rare case someone with little time and prior engagements preventing it. Not a big surprise.
No.537847
No.537851
No.537852
>>537841
Hello josh
>>537851
Gr8 argument
No.537853
No.537856
No.537951
No.537967
No.537971
No.538152
No.538290
>>537623
So, it's another imageboard engine, this time written in Python.
Sorry, but i think others are right. Python is too slow for big imageboard like 8chan.
No.538310
>>537668
The only thing wrong with python is it allows spaces for indentation.
No.538317
>>537623
cute imageboard software anon-chan, I'll be keeping an eye on it
No.538320
The best way to destroy a thread like this is to bait absolute fucking crab mentality retards like
>>537847
>>537851
>>537852
>>537853
>>537856
>>537951
>>537951
>>537967
>>537971
into shitting it up
No.538324
>>538320
And the post ID directly after this one will demonstrate the gullibility of these redditors
No.538335
>>538324
>post id
Where do you think you are, faggot?
No.538338
>>538324
>he fell for the post ID meme
No.538340
>>538335
Can you add one to a number, nigger? Oh wait this is /tech/, of course you can't
>>538324
>>538325
No.538341
>>538338
>he fell for the he fell for the meme meme meme
No.538344
>>538340
>doesn't know the different between post number and post ID
Fucking newfag.
No.538441
No.538446
Since you disabled file posting, answer me two things:
1: can you post multiple files at once?
2: can you post media files?
No.538477
>>538446
>can you post multiple files at once?
Not yet, but the backend and db etc already has full support for multiple files, so it's very easy to add. I didn't add it just yet because I wanted to get something working quickly, support is coming later.
>can you post media files?
Just your normal jpg, png and gifs are supported right now. Supporting webm's is just a matter of adding some ffmpeg calls to the file handing so not that hard to add. I want to let plugins do any additional file type support so that's why it's not yet possible.
No.539186
>I did a few optimizations and the maximum cache refresh time I've seen on this board is now 100ms.
>It still stands that this is the worst situation you can have, and real-life situations will take less time.
https://uchan.plebco.de/test/view/271#p11
No.539216
Hey Floens, is your imageboard software compatible with pypy?
(Pypy is jit Python as opposed to shit python aka cpython)
No.539219
>>539216
It runs python 3.5 and I don't know if pypy supports that.
No.539226
>>539225
what's the problem mr trashman?
No.539229
>>539226
All projects with µ end in the trash.
No.539233
>>539229
>µblock origin is trash
opinion discarded
No.539874
>>537777
Go cry into your mother's chest Josh. It's the only tits a fuck face like yourself will get to touch.
Also fuck off, no one here likes you.
No.539943
>>539874
another competitor's thread successfully derailed! thanks goon pawn :^)
No.540023
>>537623
n1 floens, but make the post number a link pls (not just after you've opened the thread).
No.540024
>>539874
What are you even talking about?
I was giving floens credit for a good codebase and his competency while shitting on some retarded incompetent Brazilian.
You seem to have some unhealthy obsession in which any post who doesn't suck the dick of your favorite monkey, the monkey who doesn't understand the consequences of lacking CSRF for example, is Josh.
Stop derailing the thread, you fucking retard. I'm so sorry that facts hurt. You can go back to the circlejerk in #autism-dev now, or whatever endchan's IRC channel is most likely, the place for autists to gather in which they bitch about >php or >python or licenses yet they churn out total half-assed garbage with flawed architectures that haven't learned the lessons of vichan.
No.541714
No.541786
Posting there gives a 503
No.541800
>>541786
works fine, at least for me
No.542019
>>537623
Wow, your image board is much more faster that 8ch/vichan (Python is going quite good with your coding), great job!
Also, does it have a catalog for each /*/?
No.542177
You shouldn't really make a "per-session" captcha especially when your main point is to use varnish.
No.542184
>>542019
friendly reminder catalog view is cancer
No.542185
>>542184
No it's not. Are you serious anon?
No.542187
>>542185
yes. that is why 314chan hasn't spent time to update it to HTML5
A) I'm a lazy developer
B) I hate the way it looks, and can't fix stupid design.
No.542191
>>542187
What does your laziness and subjective opinions have to do with a catalog view being "cancer"?
No.542193
>>542187
I almost liked your little project anon. But this is just going to be another special snowflake hugbox.
Sad...it had potential.
No.542195
>>542193
That's parley, not Floens
No.542201
>>542191
the tiny boxes don't allow users to view the entire post. If I were going to fix it, I'd make it a more compact version of the current post view instead of "lol, I put all the threads on one page xd"
No.542206
>>542201
8chan's catalog allows you to do just that by clicking and scrolling.
No.542239
>>542019
>Also, does it have a catalog for each /*/?
Like combining all boards? I could do something like that. I've been thinking of allowing /a+b+c/ syntax too, since it's easily doable now.
>You shouldn't really make a "per-session" captcha especially when your main point is to use varnish.
The verification cookie will be on another name than the normal session cookie, and it will not affect get requests.
No.542260
>>542184
Fucking hell, parley.
You know what is cancer?
Allowing user-owned boards but making all board owners part of the global staff.
Don't try to rationalize your inadequacies, try getting good instead.
No.542291
>>542239
A combination of all boards is usually called the overboard.
No.542392
>>542239
>Like combining all boards?
If you could do that with the most active threads at the homepage, that would be great (with options to visualize NSFW or SFW content).
Also, here's a quickly made mock up of how the catalog could be improved.
hopefully your imageboard won't keep giving me timeout errors when posting
No.542408
>>542392
>If you could do that with the most active threads at the homepage, that would be great (with options to visualize NSFW or SFW content).
Yeah something like that could be done. I'll do that after the other big items on the roadmap.
Mockup looks good, I'll take it into consideration. The current catalog view was quickly made and needs tweaking.
>hopefully your imageboard won't keep giving me timeout errors when posting
Never, µchan is very scalable.
No.542409
>>542408
So, would you say its webscale?
:^)
No.542412
>>542291
yeah
overboard = view of all boards
multiboard = view of several boards
interchangeable kinda
No.542413
>>542409
Nah not webscale, should've used mongodb if I wanted to achieve that. And of course serve my files from a db.
:^^^)
No.542420
https://github.com/Floens/uchan/blob/master/uchan/templates/thread.html
>.html file
>does not contain valid HTML
You might as well use .kek extensions.
No.542424
>>542413
Speaking of which.
What happens when someone wishes to deploy his site across several servers? How would your engine handle that scenario? What tools would it provide for that?
No.542433
tl;dr (sry no time)
It would be cool to have more normie features
>subscribe to the thread / board
>unsubscribe the thread / board
>list threads based on creation time
>filter all anime threads
etc.
No.542435
>>542420
It's the standard to use .html with jinja2 files that process html.
>>542424
Good question!
You can run µchan multiple servers and load balance requests between them. The demo already runs on multiple processes and running them on multiple machines doesn't matter. µchan additionally uses workers (with celery & rabbitmq) to handle some "intense" tasks, like making a post or managing (reporting, deleting) a post. So you have these worker instances distributing the tasks across the network. There are also very neat tools for celery to inspect how long workers take their time to process and how long the queue is etc.
The setup file might be interesting https://github.com/Floens/uchan/blob/master/SETUP
The file situation is as follows. You can have different file cdn implementations for what your need is. The demo currently uses the "LocalCdn" type, which is just copying the file to a destination on the same machine (demo runs on one machine) that nginx serves. But you can have cdn's that upload the file to something like s3. The cdn really only has to implement these three methods: upload, delete, and resolve_uri. I think 8ch uses some network file system so I can make an implementation for that. https://github.com/Floens/uchan/blob/master/uchan/lib/service/file_service.py#L25
>>542433
Tools like that are coming after I get the other basic stuff done. See https://github.com/Floens/uchan/issues/1
No.542443
>>537676
If that's the case, Josh shouldn't have gotten so much hate for using PHP.
No.542502
>mu-chan
>written in slow bloated python
oh, the ironing
No.542507
>>542502
Languages don't really matter at the pitiful numbers that 8chan is at. What matters, as always, is proper caching and distribution of load.
No.542530
>Still no meme software in Go
https://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/compare.php?lang=go&lang2=php
Best tradeoff between sanity, error handling, low entry bar for contributions, speed, ease of deployment, database interaction
Go is the C/C++ of webdevs, embrace it you fucktards
No.542536
>>542530
>gomeme
>sane error handling
>sane dependency handling without glade
wew :^)
No.542538
>>542530
>I-I-I HOLD THE HOLY WORD
>W-W-W-WHY NO ONE LISTEN TO ME
>P-P-P-PLS RESPOND
No.542539
>>542507
Keep lying to yourself.
When your system has to generate HTML, performance matters a lot.
And the slower the performance of the runtime environment, the more cache misses snowball.
No.542547
>>542539
>When your system has to generate HTML, performance matters a lot.
But anon, it doesn't
No.542552
>>542547
Uchan does generate HTML on the back-end.
I just linked his templates here before.
https://github.com/Floens/uchan/blob/master/uchan/templates/thread.html
No.542553
>>542539
>cache misses
You set a TTL of forever with document caching and use invalidation. Then you load-balance templating and "scale up" with your load balancer on those cache misses.
I could name numerous top 100 sites that run on Python, even chopped-and-screwed Django, I can name numerous top 100 that run on PHP. Facebook could run just fine for years without C++ or HHVM, just straight PHP-with-classes (if even.)
Please don't make me drag you through the mud like I did in your own thread, lynx, when you didn't even understand varnish coalescing backend requests.
No.542554
>>542553
>D-D-DON'T ARGUE WITH ME
>I-I-I-I TOTALLED HUMILIATED YOU BEFORE
No.542556
>>542553
Yeah, varnish sure saved next.
Oh, and remember all those times HW tried to make infinity dynamic and failed because PHP was too slow too?
It doesn't matter how well you cache in a system where caches last less than a fart if your runtime environment is too slow.
No.542557
Also
>I could name numerous top 100 sites that run on Python, even chopped-and-screwed Django, I can name numerous top 100 that run on PHP.
Ad populum.
People just keep throwing hardware when sites start to run slow. Your argument is completely void of meaning.
Try and actually argue, looking at the same fallacies over and over again is getting tiresome.
No.542560
>>542553
You're right, but some people here are too inane to understand how these things work. They still think websites run on one big machine and that every request requires a db call.
Give up, there's no way to win until µchan actually runs somewhere with heavy traffic.
I'd rather have this thread to answer real questions about µchan and talk about features and changes.
No.542561
>>542556
Next never had document-level caching. Drama killed Next, particularly cripple home drama and the breakup of the codependent-bipolar pair that was Josh and Hotwheels over IRC.
>if your runtime environment is too slow.
I guess all those websites running on "muh slow runtimes," dynamically templated in fact, just don't exist!
>Ad populum.
wew
>People just keep throwing hardware when sites start to run slow.
Appealling to premature optimization :^)
>>542560
It's all good, I'll stop replying to the hue.
No.542566
>>542561
>is the first to bring up identities to the discussion
>D-D-DONT REPLY TO THIS PERSON
No.542577
>>542566
AHUAEHAUEHAUEHAUEHAUEHAUEHAUEHAUEHAUEHAUEHAUEHAUEHAUEH
No.542586
No.542617
>>542577
>AHUAE
>not HUEHUE
You are a real Brazilian
No.543271
No.543286
>>543271
hopefully some time in the future
No.543546
>>543271
At least after its features are on par with 8ch, which shouldn't take too long (a few months max)
No.543594
>>543546
Feature parity with 8ch is not trivial.
You got a roadmap or any sort of documented plans for the future?
No.543599
>>543594
Realistic post duplication and Sonic 2006 loading times when?
No.543600
No.543601
Are you looking at the board owner/moderation part of 8chan, too? StephenLynx didn't do that at all, and that part of Lynxchan sucks because of it.
No.543606
>>543601
Yeah that's coming when I add user made board support. I want a good moderation system from the start.
No.543684
>>543546
pls save us from lynxhell
No.543697
>>537841
>>537699
>MY LANGUAGE > YOUR LANGUAGE
You do know this is the reason why the Tox project failed, right?
>>537841
Josh pls go.
No.543719
>>543606
were you around taking a look at /operate/ and /next/ when Infinity Next was developing? Tons of people had a load of discussion, feedback and suggestions and it's all gone to waste now.
No.543734
>>543719
No I didn't unfortunately. What were the good ideas?
No.543801
>>543734
QnA threads:
https://archive.is/wmYNv pt 1
https://archive.is/qEbZD pt 2
https://archive.is/XHcFi pt 3
Some suggestions from them:
https://archive.is/wmYNv#selection-6343.0-6379.0
https://archive.is/wmYNv#selection-8909.0-8945.0
https://archive.is/wmYNv#selection-20745.0-20781.0
Thread with lists of features that would've been lost in Next:
https://archive.is/IT1hn - >>>/next/3462
I didn't note down the links of archives for many of the things on infinitydev.org or beta.8ch.net but there was a lot of discussion on those websites, if I find the time to dig through archive.is I'll post what I find here
Maybe later today I'll go through your website and try to write a completely exhaustive checklist of features µchan needs to reach total feature parity with 8chan
No.543828
>>543801
Thank you very much! I'll read these threads soon.
>Maybe later today I'll go through your website and try to write a completely exhaustive checklist of features µchan needs to reach total feature parity with 8chan
Would be great if you could do that
No.543836
>>537623
Couple of questions:
1. How do you type the µ? I am on GNU/Linux.
2. How complete is this right now?
No.543839
>>543836
μ
not him but ctrl-shit-u + 03bc
No.543841
>>543836
>1. How do you type the µ? I am on GNU/Linux.
I'm Dutch so I use the US international with dead keys keyboard. You type the µ with the right alt + m. On other keyboard idunno
>2. How complete is this right now?
See the roadmap
https://github.com/Floens/uchan/issues/1
And see for yourself
https://uchan.plebco.de/
No.543842
>>543839
actually I checked the unicode and it's apparently 00b5
µ - ctrl-shift-u + 00b5
No.543844
>>543836
On non-murrcan keyboards you write it with Alt Gr-M.
No.543883
>>543836
If AltGr + m doesn't work, run "setxkbmap -variant altgr-intl" first.
No.544800
Rewrite this in Go. Look at the benchmarks.
No.544806
>>543883
>altgr-intl
>not altgr-pol
卍☭ tbh fam smh