/tech/ - Technology

You'll be taking a massive amount of responsibility, both with maintenance and legal issues. Unless you plan on learning how to understand legal-speak and are very persistent, you'll fail. Not to mention you'll be putting a target on your back by doing this. Just a fair warning. If you still wish to continue with this afterwards, I wish you good luck, anon.

OP here btw. tripfagging in case this thread becomes a big deal or need to keep up with me. I never use trips unless it is pertaining to this specific topic or thread.

>>547531

Thank you. I am in the processes of studying law, if need be i will start taking telecommunication based law along with what i need to know to even begin this project. It is no way a "ASAP" thing but it is something i want to learn about so in 5 years when we cut down our hardwood "farm", as i live in the middle of the woods, I have something i can do with my portion of the payment.

>>547539

If i gain enough interest and work to get this thing possible I am even considering expanding as a competitor. If so the platform would be based on "high speed for all, and censorship for none."

There is no “Internet” to connect to. ISPs connect to other ISPs, private networks exchange data with other private networks — that's why it's called Internet.

>>547545

looks like i fucked up

> to the internet and WWW

> tripfagging in case this thread becomes a big deal

It won't. Educate yourself.

>>547546

That doesn't make any sense to me. Is there a place where I can learn about this type of shit? Google gives me nothing useful.

>>547549

>Educate yourself.

>>>/tumblr/

>>>/reddit/

>>>/literallyanywherebuthere/

>>547548

>>547545

this is my real trip. this time without the blunder that i made. go ahead an laugh.

>>547546

I mean i get that, i do have an understanding of HOW the whole internet works. My big thing is that i want to know what is needed to become my own ISP. i would need to be my own network that then connects to other networks and so on and so on till i reach the goal and back.

You seem to be very determined and possibly have the resources to do it. I am routing for you OP. (Pun completely intended)

>>547567

reading now, thanks for links.

movement does seem like something worth studying.

>>547571

>>547567

saging cause i posted too early.

so biggest thing is getting help in the USA.

I live in Virginia, and a very rural part at that. I am still reading the information.

>>547524

>What would i need to do to create myself my own private ISP that connect me to the internet without having to deal with any Telecom company.

Short answer: you cannot do that

Long answer: Even if you create ISP you will have to deal with other ISPs to get access to parts of the internet that they are running.

In finland we have lots of small community driven isp, dunno what is english word, but so called osuuskunta.

here one example from oulunsalo explained

http://www.olka.fi/briefly-in-english/

basically people are mad because big isp are not interested to build fiber, so they diy that shit then and share the bill

>>547546

>>547675

Pretty much this

>>547555

>I mean i get that, i do have an understanding of HOW the whole internet works

Then why do you ask stupid questions?

>My big thing is that i want to know what is needed to become my own ISP

You fill the legal papers and pay a bigger ISP to provide internet access for you, completely depending on him. Do you want free access? Your network must be big, reliable and interesting enough, i.e. have a bunch of datacenters in your network. Do you want to be truly independent? Buy out the backbone from AT&T.

>>547721

>Do you want free access? Your network must be big, reliable and interesting enough, i.e. have a bunch of datacenters in your network.

Never realized this happened. Guess it makes sense.

Now small ISPs do exist, would they end up paying for both say Verizon and AT&T or would that be overkill. I'm assuming they could access say Comcast via either of the other two.

There must be parts that are dark to other parts (or nearly so because of bottleneck) or do the conglomerates cooperate enough with each other?

>>547567

Came here to mention this.

>>548114

>or do the conglomerates cooperate enough with each other?

That's how routing on the internet works by design.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_exchange_point

The only way for a private individual to get a connection to an IXP is by being in close proximity to the location and paying for the fiber connection and collocation of their own networking gear themselves, I'm sure that there are some very rich people out there that do it. Trading firms do this to get an edge on connection speeds where spending a few hundred million to lay some fiber to save a few milliseconds will pay off in no time with high-frequency trading. Some embassies and consulates also have their own private connections for security reasons. Government research labs and universities are another group that have their own connections, CERN is a good example where the first public website was hosted and the first HTTP address was created.

http://first-website.web.cern.ch/

For a typical /tech/ poster the best you can hope for is to find a Local Unix Group and see if there's any interest in a community owned ISP similar to the one in France mentioned earlier. Chances are good that you can get in contact with people that work at an IXP or have a serious discussion about this with attendees there.

>no mention of a meshnet

I suspect you live in a rural area so this would be a more viable alternative. People would pay for the service by paying for hardware and maintaining their connection node on their properties.

Ofc, you'd still have to be connected to an exchange to be rid of ISP jewry

Good to meet you anon

I've been looking at this exact same question and I've thought of a whole other way to come at it.

tldr: Build your own fucking Internet by pirating the living shit out of the clearnet.

There's more to it than that of course. I've thought a long way ahead on this idea. But I don't want to bore everyone away with a wall-of-text post.

The premise is that "build-it-and-they-will-come" is not enough. Your network needs content in order to attract people. Content comes from bloggers, artists, etc. But they only want to make content for an audience, not some little alt mesh network. So you have a chicken & egg problem.

My idea is to form an online community focused around the screen-scraping of websites, then making the mysql data available for download to anyone who wants to clone websites onto their own local networks. Or also onto the darknet.

It might sound like a wasteful duplication of content, but content is just as important as the physical infrastructure. He that owns the content owns the Internet. If you want Internet Sovereignty then you need direct control of its content.

I'm sure there's a million things I haven't addressed, but like I said, I'm trying to avoid making a wall of text. Just AMA.

>>548430

http://zeronet.io

sounds like someone beat you to it

>>547573

Jesus, stop explaining your every action. /tech/ is a slow board.

>>548443

>sounds like someone beat you to it

Zeronet is one particular means. You could also carry out this idea over i2p with eepsites, or on freenet, or any other darknet or any alternative network that anyone decides to set up.

The tools already exist and there are many of them. I say use them all.

But next we need to find the people who will use the tools. That's where my idea comes in.

Trying to cobble together a group of quality content creators in order to make a particular network popular is a difficult thing to do for the reasons I've already given (they want to go where the traffic is). But ANYONE can pirate & scrape stuff that they like from the Internet and put it on their own network.

With CONTENT will come traffic. With traffic will come more content creators, and it will feed on itself. That's how you build an alternative network to the Internet.

>>548492

I'm headed off to work, but this is something I like talking about so I'll keep an eye on this thread.

>>548430

IPFS seems to want to mirror the internet and have interest from people like archive.org. You might be interested in it.

https://blog.neocities.org/its-time-for-the-permanent-web.html

Combine this with message passing and a meshnet and you've got yourself a distributed and resilient network.

Add in something like Ethereum for dynamic content and you're good to go. All you need to do at that point is physically link up everyone in the world which is easier than it sounds if you leverage the existing internet and slowly replace it or even create redundant connections both over the existing internet and local meshnets.

What are the technical aspects that make ISPs different from a home LAN or a regular server?

Based on my limited knowledge, the ISP hosts a dhcp server that receives things like leasing requests from clients that grants them an external IP address based on devices MAC address

My ISP has to know the model of modem I am using because they have to check which incoming dhcp request is coming from me and to make sure I'm not some random trying to get free internet.

Now all you need to do is build your own network infrastructure OR lease it from one of the big telecom guys!

Good luck faggot

That would cost way to much money and even if you did pull it off you would be sued dry.

>>547686

I know of a few small Mexican ISPs that deliver internet and phone service to native villages in Oaxaca and Chiapas. Supposedly they charge like 10% of what you'd pay to Carlos Slim the biggest jew in the planet.

>>547524

1. Are you already servicing millions of customers? Congrats, you might have a tier-1 network. In which case, other ISPs will peer to you for free and you are already paying millions of dollars in infrastructure costs.

2. Be prepared to pay other ISPs millions of dollars.

>>547524

wholesale bandwidth is expensive

you also have to understand advanced networking infrastructure

>>548141

>HTTP address

>>548759

I remember hearing them saying that it will be important to let people swap out parts of the network stack without compromising basic things, for instance things like what encryption model you want to use, what kind of peer routing system you want (this is where i2p comes in), etc..

I know that kind of model is the goal but I have no idea how close they are to that right now, the developer said something about trying to be like IP and have a thin waist where only some things are standard but everything else could be improved as needed later or swapped out to fit preferences/requirements.

I'd assume once they get message passing working it wouldn't be too hard, you just have to make sure some peers allow all supported methods and pass messages. Like if I didn't care about privacy but wanted to help those that do I could act as a relay for i2p nodes. That's my speculation, maybe they have a more elegant idea in mind that is more resistant/safe.

>>548574

There's really no difference beyond scale. Home routers have built-in DHCP servers too. Many ISPs even leech internet access from bigger ISPs.

>>548759

>Copy everything you like on the Internet to the distributed IPFS network instead

I'm really annoyed how people keep talking about IPFS like it's some kind of bag of holding. It's not. It's basically a very complex stack that just provides a torrent-like CDN solution. It doesn't magically provide any extra availability over traditional client-server internet, it's still same plain old computers serving plain old content. If you don't have anyone to serve content, it doesn't work. If computers that can serve content can do it poorly, it works poorly. You still need traditional servers and datacenters for it to work.

>>548773

It absolutely provides more availability in several ways, the most obvious one being content addressing. With IPFS you request the content, it doesn't matter where it comes from. With traditional client-server you're still at the mercy of a domain and your specific CDN servers.

The other obvious one is "ownership", if you want a video on youtube.com you have to hope the youtube server is up so you can pull it from them, again when things are content addressed it doesn't matter, if you want the video from there and the original content host is no longer online, anyone can fill that role as long as they have the content.

It's strictly better than the traditional model, it only has the potential to be more reliable without sacrificing anything, if you're the only perr hosting it then it's no worse than http while also gaining content addressing. If you use a CDN then again you can just plop down more ipfs nodes to act as them in other parts of the world, no sacrifice, at worst it's the same but it has the potential to be better. For each visitor you have that's another point of redundancy and geographical distribution.

There's more things as well that exist now but one of the future plans is to have an opt in distribution cache much like freenet and perfect dark. So I can say "I'm offering 100GB of disk space" and my client will pull in 100GB of random data from other IPFS peers for redistribution.

The other important thing to consider is that not everyone has the ability to host content on a CDN. In the same way torrents empowers individuals to easily share files this does for site hosting. From the perspective of an individual, hosting a website or whatever should get easier as traffic goes up unlike the traditional client-server model. It makes it actually feasible to have a popular website hosted out of home.

>>547524

Get yourself a business class connection from your local isp the. Set up multiple wifi routers around your house to cover your neighborhood then sell your wifi to your them.

> OP finds out how much ISP want for commercial peering and full view BGP (not much, really)

> OP finds out how much hardware to handle full view routing costs (ditto)

> OP's mom doesn't agree to pay for that

Polite sage.

>>548773

>I'm really annoyed how people keep talking about IPFS like it's some kind of bag of holding.

I know IPFS is intended to be more than just that, but even that alone is worth a LOT when you consider a couple of things...such as:

>>548780

>if you want a video on youtube.com you have to hope the youtube server is up so you can pull it from them

Plus videos get pulled from youtube all the time for reasons of censorship (http://www.theycant.com/), videos being restricted by country, age restricted videos, etc. Not to mention the fucking commercials we have to sit through now. There's plenty of good reason for us to just start ripping videos from Youtube and putting them on IPFS. Hurting their ad revenue would be another good one, fuckers.

But I want to go even further than that. Ripping the Internet onto the darknet would only be the first stage.

Once a culture of hackers & pirates gets established and gets some momentum going behind it, cloning websites, ripping youtube channels, etc the next thing needed will be a crypto-economy that builds on itself (invests in its own infrastructure). That's how you get a truly separate Internet.

That's another reason why things like IPFS and Maidsafe are good ideas: they both incentivize people to contribute harddrive space by awarding crypto-currency. It lowers the learning curve and the whole barrier of entry for getting into the crypto-economy. You don't have to buy expensive video cards in order to mine coins, learn how to install & configure mining software, etc. Just being a node on the network is how you mine coins.

I'm trying to avoid the whole wall-of-text thing, but I've got a few ideas on how such an economy could get on its feet, and I don't mean a Silk Road kind of thing either. I'll post some more later.

>>549068

>Once a culture of hackers & pirates gets established and gets some momentum going behind it, cloning websites, ripping youtube channels, etc the next thing needed will be a crypto-economy that builds on itself (invests in its own infrastructure). That's how you get a truly separate Internet.

This is not a "truly separate internet", this is people archiving pages and youtube videos on the danknet. It doesn't produce anything, completely depends on the actual Internet, both in terms of content and infrastructure, and has no intrinsic value.

Not to mention that crypto-economy didn't fly and I doubt that maidsafe is somehow going to change that. Buttcoins now are a corporate-driven stock market, same will happen to safecoin garbage when big guns in form of hosting providers will join the mining process.

>>549086

>This is not a "truly separate internet", this is people archiving pages and youtube videos on the danknet. It doesn't produce anything, completely depends on the actual Internet, both in terms of content and infrastructure, and has no intrinsic value.

No intrinsic value? I just explained why ripping Youtube videos onto IPFS would have more intrinsic value than just serving as an archive. Same would most likely apply to a lot of other places on the cucknet.

>completely depends on the actual Internet, both in terms of content and infrastructure

see >>548492

Content is intended to draw more traffic. People who care about anonymity, and who can see all their favorite websites without having to visit the cucknet, won't. This will create more traffic for the darknet, which will draw more content creators (particularly ones who get censored & banned a lot from other places). So it isn't just meant to be a second copy of the Internet, even if it starts out that way. It's meant to have its own content and its own culture. But you have to start from where you are.

As for infrastructure, people hosting content on their own machines rather than relying on hosting service providers is already a start. Hosting service providers are part of the infrastructure of the cucknet as far as I'm concerned. They can be used for surveillance, for censorship, basically for all the shitty things that we all don't want on the Internet.

That still leaves us stuck with having to use Internet backbones, but that's why we need to build our network in a way that incentivizes its own construction. It needs to be a profitable venture for someone to set up a mesh network or a pirate box, or whatever. An economic model needs to be part of the network itself.

>Not to mention that crypto-economy didn't fly and I doubt that maidsafe is somehow going to change that.

Didn't fly? Well it's not going to become anyones official national currency or anything, but there's definitely a crypto-economy. Every serious VPN provider takes cryptos, anonymous hosting providers take cryptos. There's a black market that runs on cryptos. (the best kind of market as far as I'm concerned, but I'm amoral anyway)

> Buttcoins now are a corporate-driven stock market, same will happen to safecoin garbage when big guns in form of hosting providers will join the mining process.

Big guns will never stop trying to co-opt everything they see. Who gives a shit? That's why you need to be constantly creating something new.

Plus I have a different currency idea in mind for this supposed community of hackers & pirates & renegade content creators. I believe that a centrally controlled virtual currency can work, as long as it is exchangeable for crypto-currencies. I'll talk about it more in another post, but it can serve as a way to incentivize both the scraping & pirating of content as well as the creation of original content.

>>549107

But at the end of the day, you're still relying on the regular Internet. Saying that you're going to "I believe that a centrally controlled virtual currency can work, as long as it is exchangeable for crypto-currencies. I'll talk about it more in another post, but it can serve as a way to incentivize both the scraping & pirating of content as well as the creation of original content." sounds a lot like when people try to start their own sovereign nation in the US with their own currency.

Your method of encouraging content creation is basically to give play-doh money that can be exchanged with other currencies, but that won't work because there's nothing to back your

>>549185

>But at the end of the day, you're still relying on the regular Internet.

At the end of the day, that's where you have to start. Or else all you have to look forward to is the self-fulfilling isolation that various darknets now languish in: no content = no traffic = no content developers. I'm proposing a way in which alternative networks can dig themselves out of this rut.

>Your method of encouraging content creation is basically to give play-doh money that can be exchanged with other currencies, but that won't work because there's nothing to back your

Nothing backs Bitcoin either, doesn't matter.

Plus that's not my entire method for incentivizing anything. People do a lot of things just because they want to...like writing wikipedia articles. They'd be just as willing to copy wikipedia itself and clone it onto another network in some kind of collaborative effort. and maybe make some changes to the Gamergate article while they're at it

But idealism & hobby-ism have their limits. You will still get more results if you can throw in a financial incentive too. For instance you could mint currency and pay it to people who translate news articles into other languages. Or who scan & digitize books, or upload content that they got from behind a pay-wall, like various research papers, etc. Possibilities are endless once you start along this train of thought.

And people can incentivize each other as well by spending their virtual currency in patreon-style websites to support various artists.

Virtual currencies have made it to the status of spendable currency already.

http://siliconangle.com/blog/2012/02/01/bitcoins-for-world-of-warcraft-virtual-gold-just-look-to-bitmit-net/

Even before crypto-currencies became a thing, it was happening

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IGE

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China_Business/HL05Cb01.html

This happened even against the wishes of the currency developers. Other venues like Second Life have decided to run with it instead of fighting it:

https://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/Buying-and-selling-Linden-dollars/ta-p/700107

Once a virtual currency gathers a large enough user-base it gets treated like real money. I don't see any reason why this same dynamic can't be translated into other types of online environments besides games.