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# /tech/ - Technology

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File: c6ffe93cf81373a⋯.jpg (11.01 KB, 255x255, 1:1, 1440446861395.jpg)

No.745689

Have you actually ever written anything signifcant in C?

It seems like everyone shills C all day every day but i bet none of you ever wrote anything other than fizzbuzz in C.

No.745692

i'm currently writing software to track my stock portfolio, but I don't program for a job, so define significant

is cat significant?

because it's a fundamental program, yet it pales in comparison to your preferred kernel

No.745695

>>745689

>Have you actually ever written anything signifcant in rust?

>It seems like everyone shills rust all day every day but i bet none of you ever wrote anything other than fizzbuzz in rust.

No.745697

>>745689

I did embedded C in college, but that's not "real" C because embedded C is like 99% platform specific macros and register bullshit that's not really that much different from faffing about in assembly. There's not really any CS shit going on unless you want to get fancy with an RTOS or something, and you only need to be aware of a handful of potential compiler quirks so you don't end up frying some transistors because code that's written sequentially may not be compiled sequentially.

It's basically just engineering shit to work.

No.745734

I've written small but nontrivial C programs. I criticize it a lot on /tech/. I think a lot of things about it are unnecessarily terrible. I think it's a sensible choice for a lot of software, if only because everything else uses it, but replacing it is a good long-term goal.

>>745692

I think he means "complex enough that the language you choose matters". A minimal (think Plan 9, not POSIX or BSD or GNU) cat isn't very far above a fizzbuzz, so it might not count. Whether it's useful or important doesn't really matter.

No.745751

Jokes on you fag, I don't even know how to fizzbuzz

No.745775

>>745751

I mentioned fizzbuzz to a 20 year veteran at a software company I'm working at, and he had never heard of it before.

No.745788

I don't shill C.

I did write a website cgi in C for one of /v/'s servers to show leaderboards (imported from their game server's database). Not a technological marvel but its beyond a fizzbuzz.

https://web.archive.org/web/20170510032320/http://98.176.82.106:15000/cgi/cts

No.745799

>>745689

>Number of quality C programs in existence: 100s

>Number of faggots who claim C is for real manz and C is a good robust language: millions

No.745811

A thread died for this /g/ posters trash.

No.745814

I wrote ika.itch.io/redsky in c. 7k lines for the engine ,7k for the map editor

No.745860

>>745811

This is by far the dumbest "argument" you can make. If that thread was so important why was it about to get bumped off anyways?

If you cared so much about it why didn't you bump it?

Seriously fuck off with this 4chan meme.

No.745863

I'm currently writing the runtime for my dynamically typed, compiled, object oriented programming language in C.

No.745867

>>745863

I am working up to that myself.

No.745893

>>745689

I don't actively shill, but I've written a tool for a relatively unknown archive format and I'm working on a compiler.

No.745896

>>745893

>tool for archive format

could have been written in anything

>compiler

meme, no one will use it

the only legit use for c is apparently kernel work and only because all the existing code is already written in c

No.745898

>>745689

> rust cuck sjw gets tired of being called a shill for shilling his shit meme lang

> "C shills"

> that'll show them!

No.745911

>>745814

No.745912

>>745911

Thanks, I forgot to sage

No.745918

>>745814

>its very broken. The code has so many corners cut and the map editor is painful to use

lol

No.745930

Made some shitty 3DS homebrew 3D tech demo.

sizeof(int) is always 4 btw.

No.745931

>>745860

Why can't you stop sucking cocks?

If you shill not sucking cocks then why do you suck cocks all day?

No.745932

I wrote an irc bot :^) with a plugin system in C. The core is complete, need to write some plugins for it. Then I'll release it under the GPL3.

No.745933

File: 5265cffe37365e7⋯.png (711.06 KB, 1012x1088, 253:272, 5265cffe37365e79deabc2b9c2….png)

>>745932

>irc bot

>in c

all of the why

No.745934

>>745931

Not an argument.

No.745957

>>745918

Yeah, but this is a self-assessment of my programming skills. It took 14 months to create and so there is a huge "skill gap" between code i wrote in January and code I wrote in 2015 still in the codebase

I don't think another language could change that

No.745959

>>745697

For any half decent embedded developer its more like 1% platform specific and 99% platform independent. RTOS is not needed in my experience but I have only worked on systems up to 150K LOC. Maybe if you are working on bigger systems they come in handy.

No.745964

Why so much hate for C? Medical devices are usually programmed in C and you trust your life to them in certain cases. Your car's ECU was probably programmed in C. Flight computer software is written in C. Rovers driving on mars run software written in C. In all those cases software reliability is crucial, so if C was as bad as some of you on this board claim, why are they using it on as a programming language of choice on those devices?

Rust fags piss me of the most. They claim they will solve anything. There will be no more security and memory related issues. Don't they realize that there are other languages that already implement all the things they're trying to fix? Why don't we use Ada, D, Erlang or Haskell? Those are some of "safest" languages available.

The reason why are there so many security issues with software is that development is rushed. Take Firefox for example: why the fuck are developers adding new features instead of focusing more on security and standards. There is no reason to update fucking GUI every 3 months. No mater how many safety features you will bundle with your language it won't save you from bugs caused by faulty logic.

No.745965

>>745964

>if C was as bad as some of you claim, why are they using it as a programming language of choice on those devices?

Lack of choice and sunk costs. Programmers who can work with C are a dime a dozen, C tooling is widespread, and there's already been a ton of investment into the language. Particularly into covering up all the glaring deficiencies. You have no idea how much effort goes into being able to write mostly decent code in such a shit language.

Well Ada at least is the language of choice for NASA. At least when they can find enough programmers. See above.

>take FIrefox for example: why the fuck are developers adding new features

Have you looked at the Firefox source tree? They've reimplemented everything and the goddamn kitchen sink in there. Mozilla has a terminal case of NIH syndrome.

No.745968

File: 1c8255f860d8c63⋯.jpg (102.9 KB, 1300x957, 1300:957, 1c8255f860d8c63bf5026e3316….jpg)

Have you actually ever written anything signifcant in C?

>>745689

yeah, i wrote shipped commercial software in c, kid.

No.745976

>>745933

Because I was bored, and because I forgot to pay for my VPS and I didn't keep backups my python irc bot's code disappeared. So I did this as practice in C.

No.746009

>>745964

>Rust fags piss me of the most. They claim they will solve anything. There will be no more security and memory related issues. Don't they realize that there are other languages that already implement all the things they're trying to fix? Why don't we use Ada, D, Erlang or Haskell? Those are some of "safest" languages available

Because only Ada gets close to it. Rust is not just about being safe, it's about doing it with as little runtime cost as possible. D relies too much on garbage collection to be a good alternative, Erlang too, and Haskell's lazy evaluation makes it very difficult to analyze worst case runtime costs. Ada is Rust's only real competitor.

Sometimes I wonder if Rust haters really believe what they say

No.746012

>>745964

>Your car's ECU was probably programmed in C

>Implying this is a good thing

Is this bait?

Slides here:

https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/pubs/koopman14_toyota_ua_slides.pdf

No.746023

>>746012

>implying that memory safe language will protect you from highly energetic particles flipping a bit

>not following software standards for automotive industry

>blaming language for everything

Why don't we rewrite software in rust. It will surely fix our problems.

No.746030

>>745689

>shills

How about you use words correctly you shitposter

No.746041

>>746030

how about you stop defending a language you neither know nor use

No.746045

>>745689

I've written libraries to read obscure file formats.

A simple IMAP/SMTP only mail client, which I'd say qualifies as "significant".

Also games, but those are unfinished.

No.746048

File: 4e2e356c6a7134a⋯.jpeg (52 KB, 900x810, 10:9, 12649829843.jpeg)

>>746045

>games

>in c

No.746063

>>745959

>For any half decent embedded developer its more like 1% platform specific and 99% platform independent.

Having worked on a bunch of different microcontrollers, that's not been my experience. Yeah, the general high level process of doing -- say -- I2C is the same no matter where you go because the protocol has a standard. Actually WRITING it is a completely different matter and it's unique to every single platform because you need to know all of the specific setup and configuration for that system's registers and ports. There's almost no way to ever do it without digging deep into the datasheets and (if they were nice enough to give you any) the base firmware.

It's not like Arduino where you download a library someone else wrote for you and it just werks.

No.746088

>>746030

Don't bother man. This is 8chan where words like cuck kek and fag go to die.

No.746091

>>745898

>im in the C club! Rust is for faggots!

>>>/g/

>>745964

>Medical devices are usually programmed in C and you trust your life to them in certain cases.

I sure hope I never get on one of those devices. The pacemakers and shit all have a long history of remote kill user vulnerabilities.

>Your car's ECU was probably programmed in C.

I have a bicycle, not a car. And no my bike doesn't have hundreds of KLOCs in it for muh regulation and muh environment if that's what's trendy today.

>why are they using it on as a programming language of choice on those devices?

Why do corporations make decisions? I dunno? Money? Why would any form of logic be in question here? Literally everyone in the companies you're talking about are just doing what's needed to get a promotion/not get fired, and then there are 3 people in the company who are genuinly trying to produce a well engineered product but it's impossible for them to do anything. NASA had RCE in some of their code. They'd indeed fuck up in other languages too though.

>second paragraph

Indeed, Rust doesn't bring anything new to the table except purported performance benefits of their system over the other popular memory-safe languages which all use GC. The core Rust developers are the same naive people working on your typical swiss cheese web crap.

100% agree with what you say about firefux

>>746023

who's implying that? those ECUs are crap and it has nothing to do with muh cosmic rays

>>746030

>word is literally used correctly

>it is not correct because this usage offends me

No.746118

>Have you actually ever written anything in C?

beside a linked list or a binary tree, pretty much nothing.

>signifcant

nope

No.746166

>thread calls out larping c fagbois

>larping fagbois get angry

who would hve thought

No.746170

File: 7e6f67c21370ddc⋯.png (813.85 KB, 857x1202, 857:1202, brainlangs.png)

No.746190

File: 56bc2356832b2bb⋯.jpg (57.2 KB, 381x499, 381:499, 1490477150342.jpg)

>>746091

> someone called out my shitty meme language! Quick deflect!

> sweating

> c... c club!

> wew I bet that made people accept rust

No.746193

Couple small-ish things. Not that significant but definitely bigger than fizzbuzz. Something like grep, but it accepts regexps in more complex expressions with and/or/not. Enhanced tee which supports file splitting, dynamic writing start/stop, all of which can be controlled at runtime through fifo. And jackaudio thing for programs which always connect to default output and don't have settings to change that.

No.746199

My thesis project was in embedded C

Fuck off shit poster.

No.746202

File: 8f7ec8f54dd453e⋯.jpg (25.34 KB, 454x548, 227:274, 1941656432.jpg)

>>746199

>thesis project

>relevant

No.746267

>>746063

OK but the point is what percentage of your application is dealing with I2C directly? The vast majority of a normal embedded application is business logic that can be abstracted and written platform independent.

No.746322

>>746202

Driving someone into student debt is still a bigger accomplishment than anything Rust has ever done.

No.746335

>>746190

case in point, I don't give a flying fuck about either of C or Rust.

>>>/g/

No.747261

>>745896

>tool for archive format

>could have been written in anything

depends, if you need to implement some compression or encryption algorithm you do need a language like C(++) that lets you do bitwise operations etc. easily.

No.747266

>>745863

"muh language" threads are cancer. They really have no point except to shame idiots who take the bait, comeout of the wood works to vaipidly defend their ideology. Next time, sage and hide. All high level languages are shit, but we let it fly because portablity.

No.747267

Roguelike game. Not sure if "significant", but definitely more complex than simple shit like fizzbuzz or hello world.

No.747270

I wrote a GTK+ clipboard monitor.

libgtk abstracts a way a lot of the difficulty of C I guess.

No.747297

>>746048

>games

>in [pick any from Pascal, Java, javascript, flash...]

and yet plenty examples exist

No.747298

File: 56c55b7e8d48e59⋯.jpg (25.24 KB, 555x490, 111:98, 56c55b7e8d48e5902e4fb26e19….jpg)

>>746091

>I have a bicycle, not a car.

Confirmed for

>drunk driver

>inner city nigger

>faggot

>probably all three

No.747321

>It seems like everyone shills C all day every day but i bet none of you ever wrote anything other than fizzbuzz in C.

Maybe no one on /tech/ but almost everything you used to make that post was written in C or some variant.

No.747332

>>747321

>people on tech shill a language they don't actually use

faggot

No.747364

>>745689

No. C is a piece of shit language for modern software development due to the sheer amount of pitfalls it has.

It was bad even when it was released.

No.747414

>>747364

what exactly is "modern" software development and why is C bad for it in particular, anon?

No.747533

I don't consider myself a programmer because programming isn't the kinda computer stuff I like learning about but I did write a program because I needed a text to binary converter for something.

int x;while((x = getchar()) != EOF)    printf("%d ", x);

No.747534

>>747533

sorry I'm high.

text to ascii, not binary.

No.747558

>>747533

Literally install radare2 and use rax2 -s.

(A lot of the radare2 tools are very useful when messing with binaries, even when not full-on reverse engineering)

No.748242

>>745689

not sure if this is the right thread but didn't want to make one

I'm going to be taking a C course over the summer at a local school just as conceptual stuff as an intro. I hear C is from 1970 but has been updated and such.

would it be possible to practice my C coding skills on an old 80's or 90's computer, a cheap one from eBay? I want cool old electronics and being able to practice C on one would be a good excuse to pull the trigger on one.

No.748250

>>748242

Yes search for Unix PCs. Specifically something like PC7300 or similar. But those are pretty hard to find, so your next best bet is to find oldest possible PC that will run linux. Maybe something with Pentium 2 or maybe even i486DX. Or as an modern alternative, mini ARM based computer such as raspberry, beaglebone or orange pi.

No.748255

Amiga had libraries for C (Intuition), but it's also good machine for programming in assembly.

No.748279

File: 286f39f2a24fcab⋯.png (57.94 KB, 374x417, 374:417, 1451259060901.png)

I write in C or C++ almost every day.

You were able to post this thread because you used something that relied on components written in C.

No.748315

>>748242

No. Install a *nix/Linux, install gcc, and from there you're fine. Old PCs don't make a bit of difference, they just compile slower.

>>748250

the fuck are you talking about

No.748353

>>748242

The funnest part about C for me isn't programming for old devices, which provide pretty much the same features as any modern OS, only shittier.

The most fun part is programming for embedded devices, without an OS, with the entire hardware for only yourself and your code. Those can be old too (albeit slightly less). Look in your closet for any old console, calculator, or other small device, and look for a C compiler and documentation for them. If you can't find any, try to get your hands on a more recent console with good documentation/tools such as the GBA. If that's still out of the question, try a Pi or any x86 computer you might have and a "hello world" OS tutorial, and start from there.

Programming for DOS is a mess unless you want to write 16-bit assembly, which is rather fun as well and I recommend if you're looking for having fun.

Try getting started with this after you're feeling comforable around C, and have a good grasp of pointers/memory.

For real-world tasks this might seem useless, but making even the most mundane pong game run on your computer/console without an OS feels all the more satisfying.

Disclaimer: This is just a personal thing I love. The freedom you have and ingenuous things you can do with the hardware without having an OS and libraries to baby-sit you is a feeling I personally like, even with the most mundane things such as optimizing your very own memcpy function. It might just not be your cup of tea, however.

No.748357

>>748279

t. larper

No.748366

>>747534

Text to decimal, anon. You're high indeed.

No.748530

>>748353

>it might not be your cup of tea

it sounds cool anyway, actually.

>>748315

thanks mate

>>748250

will do, thanks for the help pal

No.748813

C is significantly more important than any other hipster languages in the market. If something replaces C it will be more complicated and robust than C. Then we shall move onto that instead of snowflake languages. Hipsters need to fuck off and die in gasoline fire.

yes I have written programs in C and I would not use anything else

No.748814

>>747414

>what exactly is "modern" software development

a den of bug-chasing faggots?

No.748836

>>748813

>I would not use anything else

Have you used anything else?

To be able to properly judge C it's not enough to use just C.

No.748881

>>748836

>To be able to properly judge C it's not enough to use just C.

Wat? I fail to follow your brilliant logic. You can't properly judge languages you haven't used is a fair assesment, but wtf.. now you can't judge languages that you use?

No.748886

>>748881

You can judge languages that you use only as long as you also have other languages to compare them to. If C is the only language you use it means that you're likely to see its limitations as fundamental limitations of computing (or of fast/low-level computing), even when they aren't.

No.748892

>>748886

>you're likely to see its limitations as fundamental limitations of computing

lol, fuck off man..

No.748893

>>748892

I'm not kidding. I've heard people say that null-terminated byte arrays are the only efficient way to do strings, just because they know C does them that way and assume that something must outweigh the disadvantages.

Saying that C is so good you would not use anything else implicitly judges all other languages. You should know at least a few of them to make a judgement like that.

No.748900

>>748893

You took it...

No.748901

>>748900

Took what?

No.749107

>>748901

The red pill.

No.749175

>>749107

Does that mean you now agree? You're making this hard to understand.

No.749178

>you took it

I presume he meant "the bait".

No.749190

I wrote a crontab utility to manage rotating backups based on arbitrarily complex schedules in C (things like "keep every 3rd thursday's backup for 4 years, a week of daily backups, and every 4th day for 7 months"). I only did it in C because we needed it to run on Linux, HP-UX, AIX, and an ancient version of Solaris, otherwise I would have just used modern C++ from the beginning. I could have, but it's more of a pain in the ass to get a good working C++ compiler on all of those systems.

I eventually rewrote it in Perl, and it's way cleaner and more maintainable (The C version had an internal dynamically resizing array library and a bunch of other complexity, especially to work around little quirks so that it would compile and run on all the platforms. I probably should have used autostools or something instead of just a plain makefile), but I do still really like the C version. I wouldn't have had to rewrite it if anybody else at my company knew C. I also hate Perl, but it's the only scripting language that's available out-of-the-box on pretty much every single Unix system (other than awk, but that would have been far worse).

C isn't really that hard to write. It's incredibly simple. The hard part is writing C that is well-modularized, readable, maintainable, stable, and safe. Anybody can write a C program that does what it's supposed to do most of the time.

No.749349

File: 345b94c49679295⋯.png (519.53 KB, 488x516, 122:129, NoFunAllowed.png)

>>746009

I will never use Rust, and if I see a project touting being written in Rust I will never use it.

See what Rust shilling gets you? There are, minimum, 100 others like me who boycott in silence.

No.749377

>>745689

I wrote a clone of a popular Apple II game for DOS in C using Turbo C++ 3.0