Wayland hype thread!
>Plasma is KDE's flagship product, offering the most customizable desktop environment available. The KDE community has the driving goal of making it simple by default, and powerful when needed.
>Important change of policy: 5.12 is the last release which sees feature development in KWin on X11. With 5.13 onwards only new features relevant to Wayland are going to be added.
>Sway is tiling Wayland compositor and a drop-in replacement for the i3 window manager for X11.
>We also maintain the wlroots project to provide a modular basis for Sway and other Wayland compositors to build upon, and we publish standards for interopable Wayland desktops.
>An easy and elegant way to use your computer, GNOME 3 is designed to put you in control and get things done.
>Many core X contributors are eager to see us move to the next generation display system - after all Wayland was born and raised in the X community, and has strong support there.
>An OS and apps built with modern design and features
>We're leveraging the latest and greatest Linux technologies, including OSTree, Wayland, Qt 5, and much more.
>Enlightenment started out way back in 1996 as a project to build a Window Manager for X11. It has grown much more since then. Enlightenment still produces this Window Manager, but it has evolved to also cover Mobile, Wearable and TV UI requirements for projects such as Tizen as well as the traditional “desktop” UI.
>Work is currently underway to land a complete Wayland compositor (stand-alone, no X11 needed) into the master branch of Enlightenment. At this stage, we are undergoing heavy testing and resolving any issues.
>Wayland enables features that are hard or impossible to support under X:
>transparent hardware overlays
>isolating clients (sandboxing)
>makes it possible to reuse android drivers (https://github.com/libhybris/libhybris)
>per-crtc EGLSurfaces means repainting and swapping only the monitor where content changes
>smooth transition between composited desktop and fullscreen clients (no X unredirect flicker)
>eliminates lag between cursor and dragged windows (eg moving toplevels or dnd icons)
>better remote display
"Wayland isolates the input and output of every window, achieving confidentiality, integrity and availability in both cases; the original X design lacks these important security features, although some extensions have been developed trying to mitigate it. Also, with the vast majority of the code running in the client, less code needs to run with root privileges, improving security."
>RH shills in the thread
get out and take Wayland with you.
Is there moonrunes IME for Wayland yet? I can't live without my 萌え。 It's one of the few things holding me back.
what the fuck is this shit
Enjoy your bloated barely working display server that is held together by bubblegum and the blood and tears of basement dwellers.
>what the fuck is this shit
Is Wayland finally happening? I haven't even heard anything about it in years.
Red Hat is cancer but X11 is also cancer. Wayland is slightly less cancerous but still not perfect, we just haven't come up with anything better yet.
Nvidia's autistic screeching and terrible drivers are holding back adoption.
Shieeet, no surprise. The only reason I'm using Windows right now is because I'm too lazy to jump through the hoops required to get Arch running with a modern Nvidia GPU. Never buying Nvidia again.
>Never buying Nvidia again
Good. Buy AMD until Nvidia stops being kikes and releases their driver as Free Software
I will stick with the devil I know (xorg) until there is a real impetus to switch. New features aren't an impetus, xorg becoming a legacy product that nobody supports anymore is.
>New features aren't an impetus, xorg becoming a legacy product that nobody supports anymore is.
Say it ain't so.
>wait until kikes stop being kikes
Should have just written "Buy AMD from now on".
Here's a better idea: just work to improve X11 instead. Problem solved. Wayland (and Mir, and any other X "replacements") is a waste of time and resources.
>just work to improve X11 instead
If I remember correctly the X people were saying that creating and developing Wayland would be much easier than unfucking X11 at this point.
Also, Mir has been discontinued.
>just work to improve X11 instead
You have no idea what kind of lovecraftian clusterfuck X11 is at this point. It's as far from suckless as you can possibly imagine and fixing it would take either a complete overhaul (you might as well dump it all and make something new from the ground up) or adding more extensions and therefore more bloat.
I'm sure ibus supports Wayland , feel free to use it along with the rest of your redhat slash nsa kikery.
>doesn't support redshift
>every DE now has it's own night mode obviously inferior to redshift
But at least it doesn't expose remote desktop server by default, an upgrade over X server to be honest.
X11 makes a lot of assumptions about graphics that is deprecate in today's environment. Wayland fixes this by discarding all these assumptions that were needed in the past and keeping only the functionality that is used in practice today.
Gayest OP I've ever seen.
*giggles* yes I am quite faggy!
I wonder if redshift-type functionality could be a component or extension of some sort to that wlroots thing?
>X11 makes a lot of assumptions about graphics that is deprecate in today's environment.
I know this is true, as I hear it everywhere from random anons to the original X devs, but could you provide some examples of these assumptions? I'm curious.
They did that for 5 years, you don't understand, they actually tried.
Disclaimer: I haven't touched X11 programming because I've never needed to touch it.
The X11 protocol specifies functions for drawing text. Modern desktop environments don't use X11 functions for drawing text. The X11 protocol specifies functions for drawing shapes. Modern desktop environments don't use any of those functions.
There is no dichotomy between Wayland and X11. It is technically possible to run an X11 server on top of Wayland thus you would have full X11 functionality with Wayland.
Does XFCE support it yet?
Will it be possible to develop apps with GNUSTEP to support Wayland? I would love to see a WM like Windowmaker have Wayland support.
What exactly are the compatibility limits of Wayland? Does it have any effect on applications? Can I drop it into any distro? Are there any lightweight Wayland DEs aside from meme-tier tiling WMs?
X has worked for decades (whether original X11, XFree86, or Xorg). You were saying the same about sysvinit, and now most everyone is stuck with the mostrosity that is systemd. What's the guarantee it won't turn out the same with Wayland? Where's the guarantee that once it has replaced Xorg everywhere it won't become hard-dependent on systemd?
Except it's the reverse situation from sysv vs systemd. Wayland is MUCH closer to the Unix way than Xorg. Much easier to maintain too.
The only worth feature for desktops window manager system in this thread is Swaywm. The rest are fucking garbage.
X11 and Wayland are not a dichotomy. When it's completed, you are allowed to run an X server that runs under Wayland.
Did you know that Wayland is developed by the core X.org developers? They started the Wayland project because they have an intimate understand of what x.org does, how the desktop environments use it in practice today and why x.org has superfluous functionality that isn't used in practise today. Wayland is designed to do what x.org does in practise without the backwards compatible baggage that doesn't get used.
I hear LXQT may be moving over after they make the switch from Openbox and Kwin
I don't get this argument. So Wayland is something that's being shoved down everyone's throats? I don't see an issue with that, considering that X has been shoved down our throats since the 80s.
Cool shit and no systemd, no dbus, no.. oh wait..
Well, that's it. It's going to get worse and worse and worse...
OMG that's so true!
Wayland actually does not depend on systemd!
I wish they would have called it X12. Just for the continuity.
The X windowing system is designed for network transparency. Wayland is not designed for network transparency. There's no reason why we can't write an X12 server to target Wayland when the X12 protocol is finalized.
>There's no reason why we can't write an X12 server
so you mean adding more duct tape to the ball of duct tape?
why isn't network transparency in Wayland? I know one of the developers brushed it off by saying X11 doesn't have it because of some of the extensions not supporting it, but that isn't an explanation why Wayland shouldn't be network transparent.
this is quite a good explanation:
>tl;dr: network transparency in a window system is only important if the window system does the rendering, which nowaday mostly isn't the case with X11, it just receives the pixels to display. Network transparency needs to be supported in the toolkit, instead.
Man I’ll give a shit when Sway 1.0 hits and I can set the refresh rate of my monitor
Unless I can do that now? All I saw with output was positioning and resolution
There are people who complain about Wayland because it has no network capabilities. This is a false dichotomy. It will be possible to add in X11 protocol support for the people who demand it and leave it out for everyone else. In fact, you can add support all kinds of protocols like VNC or NX. These will not be mandatory and can be left out when it's not needed.
Ah but you fail to realize that Wayland is a redhat free desktop project. All of those protocols will be added in due time. Along with a load of other shit it doesn't need. Meanwhile the rest of us will stay comfy on xenocara.
>All of those protocols will be added in due time. Along with a load of other shit it doesn't need.
but anon that's the exact opposite of what Wayland is designed to be.
>but anon that's the exact opposite of what Init is designed to be.
you know what it doesn't support? doing X over the network.
Did you know that all freedesktop.org projects, including wayland and X.org, now operate under the Contributor's Covenant?
Why the bloody hell would you even want to do that? It's insecure, and not supported by modern X extensions.
That doesn't matter. Use your X server if that's what you want.
I don't care. That has nothing to do with Wayland. I care about code, not bullying.
Can confirm, Nvidia's autistic screeching is making it incredibly difficult to run linux with their shitty drivers. There is a bug with either X or xrandr where if you have two monitors each plugged into a different graphics card, the most you'll be able to do is get the second monitor to turn on (but it will still be black with the X cursor). The only ways to fix this are to enable xinerama (which is honestly a pile of hot garbage) or just plug both of your monitors into the same GPU.
bad comparison. systemd afaik was cancer from the very beginning, and it was meant to be as big as it is. Wayland is designed to be smaller than Xorg, transferring part of the workload to the implementations rather than having a highly bloated standard.
The legacy X11 stuff for this may have been useful at one point, but is currently just bloat. By transferring a lot of this stuff to the implementations, they can add whatever features are needed at the time, and when they become ancient and unneeded, they will die with that particular DE project rather than being stuck in the protocol forever.
kwin from my understanding is the underlying window manager for KDE.
LXDE was a very lightweight GTK+ based DE. It is being replaced by LXQT.
LXQT is a rewrite of LXDE using Qt.
Both of them, at this point, use Openbox as the WM.
However, I heard that the LXQT project wants to switch to using Kwin as their WM. That way, they will have an avenue to be able to jump to Wayland.
This is because Openbox does not support wayland (and I don't think it's been updated in a few years).
d-do you really think im a cute?
I know what kwin is but isn't it a bit bloated for lxde/qt? If they continue to add more kde stuff in, wouldn't it defeat the purpose of lxde as a whole? Since the only reason they could compete is because they're more lightweight than xfce right?
If their memory usage exceeded a certain amount, I might as well use kde and manually uninstall the bloat.
have you never done that? it's secure on the network atleast with ssh. it's damn convenient if you need to run some gui shit on a remote server for some reason and you don't want to go through all the bullshit of setting up VNC or similar.
>not supported by modern X extensions.
I've never had any problems running whatever I wanted to run, browsers, chat clients, gparted, etc, "modern X extensions" are apparently overrated. I wouldn't expect any 3d accelerated shit to work though.
that's nice, because anyone who adopt's the contributor's covenant cares more about bullying than code.
I love your cheerful spirit.
No. You are a liar.
Am I autistic for spelling OwO as /o:wo:/ or UwU as /u:wu:/?
Because I think these smileys also represent a "cute" questioning sound sound.
Don't worry, I do that to. I think it would be more autistic to think that you shouldn't subvocalize the emoticons as something for some arbitrary reason.
I'm glad you do!
Heres a pika!
Sway confirmed for best project ever.
I will definitely use it when I get the chance.
It is still not secure. Also I have done it but I've never had to use it with my SBC. All the tools work through SSH or serial console (rtorrent, toxic, libreboot flashing stuff).
Are you one of those /g/ kids that fell for the trap meme?
shota meme is the best meme!
I like boys too but OwOposting and roleplaying as one is another level.
Little green dude a cute tho
It doesn’t matter if you’re a boy or a girl as long as you’re cute.
Anime is for niggers.
But aren't those the same people who royally fucked up X11 to begin with? It used to be a simpler and safer system, before they added all that DRM and related shit. This talk is informative:
At the very end, one of the quesions is if it's safer to run X like in the old days, such as via plain Vesa driver. And the researcher agrees that this would significantly avoid most of the deep security problems.
But they don't want to fix X11 and the problems they made. They just want to start over and make a brand new mess. I'll be using framebuffer console instead.
That's fine as long as you don't mind CPU rendering everything
These posts make me happy.
>I like boys too
d-do you like me?
>one of the quesions is if it's safer to run X like in the old days
>And the researcher agrees that this would significantly avoid most of the deep security problems
Really? hmm let's see what that entails...
>such as via plain Vesa driver
>Approximately 1.5% of the survey respondents were using the xf86-video-vesa driver.
>This seems like a rather high percentage considering the xf86-video-vesa driver just implements the basic standard VESA core to provide very basic user mode-setting on most graphics cards and monitors, but half the time it won't even mode-set to the monitor's native resolution. The VESA driver does not implement any hardware acceleration besides support for a shadow frame-buffer (ShadowFB) on the CPU, does not support X-Video, there is no power management, and is basically only good for starting the X Server in effectively a fail-safe mode if you happened to break your proper X.Org driver or xorg.conf configuration and are need to get back into an X Server as you restore your system's graphics stack.
>expected wayland thread
>got the gay community
GO THE FUCK AWAY YOU GODDAMN HOMO HERETICAL CUCKCHAN GAY PEDOPHILE TRAP AIDS ANAL CANCER FAGGOTS
>bumps the thread while telling people to fuck off
so they just measured a proxy for arch users
If I saged, it would be letting you derail a perfectly fine wayland thread, you fagaloon.
> >one of the quesions is if it's safer to run X like in the old days
> >And the researcher agrees that this would significantly avoid most of the deep security problems
> Really? hmm let's see what that entails...
> >such as via plain Vesa driver
> yeah no.
Normie's like yourself need not apply . It's no surprise that the (((extensions))) are where all the bugs are. Many of them are absolute cancer that had no business being submitted to upstream X. Luckily openbsd has made most of these bucks ineffective since x is running with less privileges then your standard user.
It wasn't unexpected.
So we shouldn't be able to have hardware acceleration? We shouldn't be able to use our monitors at their native res?
isn't thigs what gnome gtk runs on faggots this has been out 20 years fuck you op. i;m from /pol/ and even i know this.
>20 years late
I used the Vesa X server just fine for years on a Thinkpad with Pentium-M. More recently I tried it with a new-ish amd64 craptop, and couldn't drop out of X without having a fucked console. Switching to the wsfb driver fixed all that, and also allowed closing the aperture entirely.
I'd still much rather use a framebuffer console, but mine only supports text for whatever reason. It's recognized as "efifb" at boot.
> wsdisplay0 at efifb0 mux 1: console (std, vt100 emulation), using wskbd0
Kind of confusing really. I guess some more work is needed.
Well my Thinkpad ran ok at 1024x768, which was its native resolution. But I really like pixels, so I always ran it at 800x600. Pic-ralated is an old screenshot from that machine.
As for OpenGL, I never needed or cared for it because I don't play modern games ever. I could play stuff like Duke Nukem 3D and Quake in dosbox just fine though.
Even Firefox ran mostly ok under those conditions. Actually it ran much smoother than recent Firefox does on my amd64 with 8x as much memory. I'm still using a dumb framebuffer (wsfb instead of vesa) but Firefox seems to have gotten much worse. But it's not something I like to run anyway. Links -g ftw!
>Well my Thinkpad ran ok at 1024x768, which was its native resolution. But I really like pixels, so I always ran it at 800x600.
yeah I don't think most people are going to be all that enthusiastic about going back to those kinds of resolutions. 1080p and 1440p are pretty standard right now, with 4k also becoming popular.
>As for OpenGL, I never needed or cared for it because I don't play modern games ever. I could play stuff like Duke Nukem 3D and Quake in dosbox just fine though.
Random question, if ya don't mind. Would that system have been capable of running Valve's goldsrc games? (CS 1.6, HL1)
>Even Firefox ran mostly ok under those conditions. Actually it ran much smoother than recent Firefox does on my amd64 with 8x as much memory. I'm still using a dumb framebuffer (wsfb instead of vesa) but Firefox seems to have gotten much worse.
Maybe you should give Pale Moon a shot. It's forked from older firefox.
>Links -g ftw!
can you shitpost from it?
No idea about those games you mentioned. Quake was the last game I got into. After that they started wanting 3D cards and/or Windows, so I never bothered. But basically any old DOS game that only needed a regular SVGA card would have also worked fine on my old laptop setup.
CSBWin worked great on there too. Sadly it no longer does on amd64. And it probably never will, given that it's a line-by-line conversion of 68000 assembly to 32-bit C++ equivalents, line by line...
>meh gay commie meme
>WWE wrestlers are gay
Are you mad that OP isn't posting "bara" uwu?
>i;m from /pol/
You didn't need to say that. It's obvious from the incomprehensible grammar, low level of knowledge on the subject, and the need to yell cuck in every post.
what wayland capable DE uses least RAM?
Xorg and FVWM is still lighter, but, probably the GNOME-RedHat-Fedora one
>trying this hard to start a /pol/ vs /leftypol/ shit fight
Please leave, you are not welcomed here.
Yeah, CS 1.6 came out around 1999-2000, and had graphics like first pic related.
Actually i'd say Sway would have the least RAM usage
you may or may not consider that a DE though. If you're looking for something bigger, I think KDE at this point uses less RAM than GNOME, so maybe check that out.
GNOME is probably the most complete implementation of Wayland, but due to KDE now focusing all of their development efforts on Wayland and ending their X developments, I can see them catching up fast. Second pic related is some info from KDE project
OMG u say uwu are u a cute person? u get third pic related!
Neither are you, /g/
>This kills the Waylandnite
yeah im not hardcore enough for sway or fvwm...
isnt there something like mate level?
just enough to make it usable?
On one hand I like it, but on the other it looks too much like windows it triggers my autism
Nothing yet. KDE and GNOME are your choices for DE-style on Wayland. I heard somewhere LXQT would be moving to wayland after they make the switch from Openbox to Kwin though, so look out for that.
>that shitty theme
this is why we need wayland
>everyone i don't like is /g/
You're fitting in
Do you look like a cute anime boy or a greasy fag in rainbow stockings who thinks his bangs cover his acne scars?
>bangs covering acne scars
Let me tell you how I know you're in middle school.
are u baking cookies, mister?
GOD YOU'RE SO FUCKING ANNOYING I JUST WANNA HATE-FUCK THE SHIT OUT OF YOUR TIGHT ASS YOU GODDAMN FAGGOT!
in my butt? OwO!!
Also, back on topic, what's the most minimal terminal emulator that's native on Wayland?
Jesus just fuck off already.
Just fuck a boy, already. Pay for it if you have to. That'll either cure or convince you of your faggotry.
This is probably the gayest, most cancerous thread on all of 8chan right now
Please keep going though seriously. This is the thread this shit board deserves tbh
Do you expect me to understand that moon gibberish?
Don't you at least understand the gavel noises? It also writes guilty in big letters.
Don't play dumb you know what she said.
Yea its great having xorg where any program can screen record your whole destkop no security issues there nope not at all
that's not a Wayland-native terminal emulator.
This should really be the first thread anyone reads on their first visit to 8ch.
>"Hi! Welcome to 8chan! Do you want to pet the kittens? ^.^"
bumping for a terminal emulator
oops didnt mean to quintuple post above, the onion link didnt work properly for a minute. codemonkey needs to fix it
This OP gave me AIDS
So, /tech/ is going from furry to gay shota catboys.
Don't bump the thread you idiot! Now the gay pedo will come back!
one of these i think is a loli though but its ok because OwO
please let this cancerous thread die already
Don't give up, waylandfren! Teach these teenbros that boys can be cute, too!
>boys can be cute too
omg yes its true heres another kitten hes getting his cheek tickled with a plant so silly! ^_^
And heres another he sez woof but hes got kitty wiskers
That's the gayest OP, i feel bad for Wayland to attract the kind of faggatory.
>^_^ OwO :( UwU ^.^
*giggles* are you mad, mister?
This boy is shooting lazors!
OMG this is my favorite
K I S S Y B O Y S ! ! !
>>An OS and apps built with modern design and features
>>We're leveraging the latest and greatest Linux technologies
isolation is a meme. nixtards don't have a clue about security. it took them 500 years to even figure out X has problems
I honestly haven't had this much fun in a thread since the libbie happenings. Thanks OP ^w^
You're welcome! I'm glad you like it.
umm... mister, are you the guy who wanted hate-fuck me and bake cookies?
Its the future of GNU/Linux windowing systems!
that true. thats why I put a frowny face on that one.
At least it uses Qt instead of GTK.
>it took them 500 years to even figure out X has problems
yes it does and now we're fixing them. With Wayland!!
m-mister? Do you still want to bake cookies and fuck?
are you still around?
post screenfetch or neofetch