/tes/ - The Elder Scrolls Discussion

Random shit for flavor without any clear guiding hand to its design nor effort put forth to really imply one at more than a glance.

>>10334

>What are your thoughts?

I personally like it that way. A lot of this stuff comes from older writings which was incredibly good at creating nuanced, immersive narrative that could be explicit enough to catch your eye and give you a clue, but mysterious enough to hod interest and protect itself. Conversely, they were throwing all cool things at the wall to see what stuck, ending up with a vibrant, complicated but disconnected and disjointed idea that is not for everyone. Its harder for it to be attacked and devoured by casuals or shitty writing, unless directly messed with by Bethesda. It gives the player more room for the imagination and a sense of cosmic horror in which man is clearly not t the center of the universe and merely a pawn in this mysterious game that we simply will not and cannot comprehend. The more the games adhere to this last principle, the better they tend to be.

I'd say you're probably right about the Dremora and such being a product of the Daedra's nature, with Dagon being all about straight up, in your face chaos and bloodshed while the other princes prefer a more "subtle" approach, in varying degrees.

Some Princes might also just have less interest in creatures not of Tamriel, feeling like they aren't enough of a challenge, interesting enough to mess with, weird enough, etc.

>>10334

I've never liked how the lesser Daedra have been handled, and I find the idea of them having free-will to be very annoying.

>>10342

you assume the lesser daedra are all direct creations of the princes. it's not necessarily true; many of them could be descendants of lesser et'ada who were not powerful enough to carve out their own world in Oblivion.

>>10342

Daedra don't have free will. Not even the Daedric Princes have free will.

Every Daedra represents something. More powerful entities, such as Mehrunes Dagon and the other Princes, represent broader concepts: in this case, change, revolution, destruction, and so forth.

His servants are a bit simpler. To quote Imago Storm:

Faydra's clan represents the vital, but impulsive and undisciplined element of the destructive principle. Xivilai's clan represents the ambitious, but occasionally overreaching and imprudent side of Destruction. I, and my Vassal Lords, and the Dremora clan, represent the principle of Destruction as Evolution, aspiring to arts and powers of ever-increasing potency and aesthetic refinement. The Seducers are Masterless Daedra, cast adrift by the failed fortunes of their Lords, and recently accepted, much against my counsel, into Lord Dagon's service. Is that clear?

Hence, when Mehrunes Dagon, as Daedric Prince of destruction, gave free reign to the other two and accepted in a group with no master, Imago Storm gave the Apprentice the tools he needed to pull Dagon back. Not out of any aspirations to power, but simply because he believed he knew better than his Prince.

But not out of free-will: Out of compulsion, by his very nature. Not so much a matter of a servant betraying a lord, but rather, a person with multiple personalities all in harmony. Only now, they are in agreement to jump off a cliff, and one - Imago - doesn't like that. So he calls the suicide hotline, and gets the rest dragged off. Only seeing as they are not one body, things become more complicated - after all, he couldn't fix things in this scenario.

tl;dr fuck Daedra

>>10352

That's more a consequence of daedra simply having no business on the mortal plane. Anything that enters Mundus is subject to its laws (or earthbones). A daedric prince making a physical appearance in Tamriel will have its normal powers seriously curtailed. Not to mention having to fight with powerful Aedric aspects on their home turf. They need to go home and stay there.

>>10347

Them not being the direct moldings of their respective princes goes against their bindings and inherent immortality. Lesser Daedra aren't people, they are appendages. If they are distinct from their princes they should be mortal.

>>10349

>Daedra don't have free will

>We serve by choice. We serve the strong, so that their strength might shield us.

>Dremora have long served Dagon but not always so

http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Spirit_of_the_Daedra

Fuck Daedra indeed.

>>10355

>Believing what a bunch of fucking lying Daedric shits tell you about themselves

I bet you think Dremora are as hot shit as they say, too.

Honestly it's just a giant clusterfuck.

You've got Daedric Realms that have people (Mer/Men) casually living inside of them, with a society and laws of its own, Daedric Guards (which speak normally and all that), even a fucking weaponsmith.

Then you've got a Daedric Realm that's just lava and spooky buildings, only inhabited by non-speaking Daedrae and sort of speaking Dremora(s?).

Then you've got http://www.imperial-library.info/content/i-was-summoned-mortal that , which showcases a sort of similar Oblivion Plane, but this time around there are people inside too and the daedra torture them.

Then you sorta ask yourself, is it the same thing if you enter the plane through a gate, like in Oblivion like dying by the Mace of Molag Bal, or being one of their champions and selling your soul to them or whatever?

How the fuck does that even work.

>>10368

The reason why mortals are mortal is because they are cut off from the Divine, they were created. Creation is just a funny word for taking one thing and breaking it apart into multiple things. These pieces tend not to last long when they are separated from the immeasurable whole. The only reason why Nirn itself didn't fade away is because of Lorkhan's Heart and the Aedra.

Lesser Daedra aren't creations, as creation requires sacrifice, something the Princes flat out refused to partake in. Lesser Daedra are, as I said, appendages, things the Princes mold from their bodies but never let go of. They are little playthings the Princes feign so that they can pretend to rule something, but deep down they know they are nothing but imaginary sockpuppets.

Why do you think Daedric Princes are so interested in the affairs of mortals, anon?

>>10370

While I would like to dismiss it like that, the elephant in the room is that the text is clearly what Bethesda intended for the Lesser Daedra and using those quotes is a far better argument standing then what you just said.

>I bet you think Dremora are as hot shit as they say, too

I actually think the Dremora are fucking stupid.

>>10374

i'm saying, can't there be et'ada in Oblivion that are too weak to be a Prince and are mistaken for "lesser daedra"? my theory is, while Peryite and Clavicus Vile are at the bottom of the Prince hierarchy, there are spirits even beneath them. they're too small-time for the title of "Prince"; and don't have the metaphysical chops to carve out a realm, so they just stick to the big boys, like Dagon and the others, since the alternative is floating in a void forever.

>>10379

I'd conquer her mudcrab den.

>>10375

Demiprinces are what you refer to.

>>10383

>putting you dick near anything infested with crabs

>>10390

>Demiprinces

according to uesp, those are just half-breeds.

>>10390

I would risk it for that bananaloli.

>>10380

Sotha Sil and Almalexia. Two mortals-turned-gods, powered by the Heart of Lorkhan, which is effectively equivalent in power to a Daedric Prince.

What Mehrunes Dagon did is effectively the same as Hulk Hogan bursting into an NRA convention to find a skeletal manlet and a little girl with handguns.

Battlespire is also more complicated: Dagon was defeated there by -

> a hero of prophecy

> using the broadsword of the moon reiver, forged from his essence

> possessing knowledge of his protonymic and neonymic

> with external aid from Jaciel Morgan

If any one of those pieces wasn't in place, the Hero of Battlespire would have been defeated. The reason Dagon lost was overconfidence, and the belief that a mortal could never come into possession of all of those elements.

Essentially, Dagon allowed the Hero to meet him directly, unaware of these factors. Up until the Hero spoke his neonymic, he didn't even consider him a threat: And by then, it was only his immense power anchoring him to the Hunting Lodge. By calling in his favor to Jaciel Morgan, whose magic was well beyond his own, the Hero was given the precious seconds needed to strike Dagon with the broadsword, severing the connection and banishing him.