/tes/ - The Elder Scrolls Discussion

>>10568

nah fuck that, lets make magic a playground to do whatever you want.

combine that with weapon crafting and you'll have a fun system. OP shit is fun to have in RPGs.

>>10570

Magic can still be very powerful and actually OP when properly invested in, it's mostly important that it's not garbage irregardless of how much effort you put into it (Skyrim) or OP without much effort (Oblivion)

Pretty much everything you've mentioned, OP. But, as we all know, Bethesda Game Studios is an awful developer which has - for a decade now - consistently cut-out good content and watered everything else down to rake in cash from the lowest common denominators. Any surviving creative spirit was last there in some of Skyrim's lore - just barely - and by the time Fallout 4 came out it was all but gone.

This is why there is a significant lack of new posts here, and come TESVI:Hammerfell we'll all be horribly disappointed. Fuck Bethesda.

>>10572

magic is best when it follows the D&D formula. low-level mages are pathetic scrubs who cannot survive alone and struggle through every encounter; high level mages are terrifying weapons of mass destruction.

i remember playing Baldur's Gate 2 a while ago, and there was a point where my sorcerer went from struggling with low-level mobs, to wiping them out with a single spell. my new challenges became demons and dragons n' shit. eventually I outgrew those too and my new challenges were freaking demi-gods and archdemons. that shit is satisfying, and it's called growth; something vital to a good RPG experience.

Valid points, all three of you. Glad there's still people discussing.

>>10573

There's something really weird going on. The quality of their DLCs (mostly Dragonborn) is absolutely fucking fantastic. Along with one Island it adds actually unique quests, most locations/dungeons are more unique than those in Skyrim, it adds a good amount of weapon/armor sets and the unique items are great.

Skyrim looks good and has smooth combat, but most RPG mechanics have been axes. It's an amazing adventure game but an awful RPG.

Judging by some of the half-assed content in Skyrim there was going to be more stuff, and stuff that didn't suck. My guess is that lots of people at Bethesda know how to and want to make a good RPG, but it's the higher-ups who cut content and water down features for casuals.

>>10575

Shouldn't that apply to anything though? Going from swinging iron swords at bandits to smashing dragons with ebony warhammers?

>>10576

Some of the shouts were alright (and nothing more) and restoration buffing attributes was pretty broken but I agree with everything else. It's not hard to make destruction not OP and not garbage but Bethesda is Bethesda.

How about different attack styles with each weapon, improving on Morrowind's system? I get the feeling that slashing a sword at a bandit in full plate isn't the best way to go about actually hurting them, unless your sword is ridiculously enchanted.

>>10585

this tbh fam

>>10587

>using coon runes

kill yourself

>>10588

>runes

I'll never not love this board's filter.

>>10589

it's not filtered

>>10591

Well, tbh fam to you anyways for keeping this board alive.

>>10578

>Shouldn't that apply to anything though?

In general, yeah. But in D&D settings, the growth between classes tends to differ slightly. A low-level mage is incredibly weak, and totally dependent on his companions, but if you keep him alive, eventually he becomes incredible. A fighter will never struggle as hard as a mage, but he'll also never reach the heights a mage can.

>smashing dragons with ebony warhammers

I don't think that's a good comparison. You never really have to "work your way up" to dragons. Let's be honest, you wouldn't be that much worse off hitting that thing with a shovel. If you can hold a stick, you can kill a dragon. There is no sense of accomplishment involved there at all.

>>10578

>My guess is that lots of people at Bethesda know how to and want to make a good RPG, but it's the higher-ups who cut content and water down features for casuals.

I think you're right. I wish someone from BethGS would actually explain things to us.

>>10595

i avoided dragons because the fight took to long and was boring as fuck

>>10576

>levitating

see the problem is that skyrim has long view distances and crappy optimization. Try using open cities and watch your FPS tank for no reason. It sucks.

Personally I didn't think the hatchet to the attributes was a huge issue since they really did just boil down to health magic and stamina. The attributes that boosted speed meant nothing after morrowind and the attributes that increased hit and dodge meant even less. Since those don't do anything you're only left with attributes that boost the main stats.

I thought the perks were asinine since it was cooler that you got perks by way of playing but it wasn't a huge turn off for me.

The problem with magic wasn't the long cast times, I thought those were pretty fucking bad ass. The problem was the mediocre damage and the lack of classing. In Skyrim you never really feel like you're a mage or a warrior or a thief since there's no class system, a system they didn't need to cut. By the time you unlock the assblasting magicks you're already level 20 and growing, you don't actually feel like a mage until you're half way through the fucking game.

>>10595

Dragons dogma knew what a fucking dragon was all about.

A tough fight that pushes your skills to the limit whilst you cling for dear life taking swipes at the beasts heart. Skyrim's enemies have no weak points, no resistant points, and they barely even react to taking a hit.

Here is a big change that i think will improve Immersion and role play and therefore gameplay.

RACIAL STYLES

since we are looking at Hammerfell next most swords should be curved in the redgaurd style but if we encounter a traveling imperial patrol they should have imperial style weapons by which i don't mean the imperial gear that is the same for everyone, I mean a style that can be replicated in any material. remember when you went into a ancient nordic tomb and found modern imperial amour and despite regular drugr having their own weapon style deathlords had ebony swords of exactly the same style as one forged that same day.

This would improve immersion by allowing the player to dress to match the characters backstory if i am an Imperial Mercenary i can dress in the style of amour i trained in from my youth even at high levels. A dark elf can dress like a dark elf and a dark elf who grow up under the argonian occupation can use a mixture of the two. One of my favorite rewards was the dawaven black bows because I think it gave an insight into how the dwemer approached things it is a dwaven bow but made of ebony they studied bow design believed they had the best and stuck to it.

when i say the same style i do want each material to look different within that style though for example ornamentation to show a higher status a longer length from a lighter material and if it makes no sense it doesn't exist, like how glass bows and blunt weapons weren't in morowind nor bonemould swords.

the materials need to have different properties as well because skyrims system of balancing weapons only by weight was retarded a heavy glass sword contradicts the lore. I think all weapons should have the base damage they apply then on top of that smithing improvements are made. this wont work like skyrim were they are for good but they will wear off. to compensate for this it will no longer require a ingot to improve them as this is retarded from the start a grindstone removes material not adds it. so an Iron sword of the same mass shape and lenght as a ebony sword should do the same damage but a ebony sword can be improved more and will hold its improvements longer. So a low level player finding late game gear wont make the game to easy but will still offer an advantage.

Also a volumetric component to the inventory system so that you still have a maximum encumbrance based on your strength but you also need to find a place on your person/pack to keep what your a carrying. For example i think a humanoid would find it physically impossible to carry 10 cuirasses even if they were strong enough to carry the combined weight of the 10 cuirasses. I think this would give more meaning to the way a character was built and servery punish the jack of all trades build because of its inability to carry loot forcing it to be poor. it would also allow a greater disparity between light and heavy amour because heavy amour will have a economic handycap to compensate for its increased effectiveness. this could eventually be over come by buying a horse. it would also encourage heavy warrior builds to focus on quests and quest rewards for income rather than loot. as well as adding value to small items like Hlaaluelry because of their portability. it would also make followers more useful and encourage player to build a party before dungeon delving to enable all of the loot to be removed, which would lead on to a system were the player must pay or split his loot with the followers, which i think will be more immersive.

a interesting idea for a combat system, because games will never be good while crippled by controllers and consoles i'm going to ignore them. one button to block and one to attack like we have now and then some hotkeys to modify the type of attack i think about 5. one will be for a thrust to where to cross hair is pointed, another of a chop from the right down and another for the left down and another for left up and another for right up. + one to allow the weapon to be thrown. also a the ability to change between grips like in http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/58973/? which would be fun for a spell sword use your long sword in one had while you have magika then change to two hands when you run out. or if you just use support spells change to one hand well you buff and change to two after for more damage.

>>10607

i forgot to add locational damage is a must

This thread should be titled "Let's pretend Bethesda listens to its fans." Well, on the off-chance that they do:

>Magic

bring back spell crafting. and stop gradually taking away magical effects every sequel. if we compare all the ways magic could be used in Morrowind with Skyrim, it's depressing. at this rate, in the next game there will just be one school of magic called "magic" and it will have you choose between a red fireball, a blue one, or a green one.

>Melee combat

bring back classes. give each one a distinct fighting style. basically, rip off Dragon's Dogma as closely as possible.

>Mounts

if you're giving us a horse, make sure he can carry my stuff, for fuck sake. it's the whole point of having one.

>Unique items

should level up with the player so they don't become obsolete early in the game. i played other RPGs where unique items have growing stats. there's no reason almighty Todd can't do it.

>Rewards

how about rewarding me with items relevant to my class? I rolled my eyes every time a stupid daedric prince gave my wizard a sword, hammer, or a set of armor and expected me to be happy.

>Character creation

adjustable muscle mass was a good start in Skyrim. now add fat slider, stature slider, and different body types. also incorporate all that into the game's physics. once again I'm really saying copy Dragon's Dogma; plagiarize the shit out of it.

>Daedric weapons and armors

why does daedric gear look like it was literally made from Shadow the Hedgehog? i would like designs made by adults this time around. or if you insist on those awful designs at least give them shitty stats like they deserve.

>Becoming leader of guild

why do I fight to become leader of these places, and then I don't get to lead? we need quests as leaders. get some political intrigue in that shit, make us feel like there's a point to it all.

>Gaining ranks in a guild

how about bringing back some standards to our guilds? no ranking up in the mage guild if you suck at spells. i know you're trying to whore yourselves out to casuals, but even they'll thank you for not dumbing it down so much.

>Dwemer gear

why all their weapons medieval? where is all the high-tech gadgets? compound bows, pneumatic hammers, chainsaws, automatic crossbows, automaton control rods, steam-powered armor? none of that shit occurred to you, Todd?

>Paid mods

all that other stuff aside, my decision on whether to buy your next game ultimately hinges on you not being colossal hook-nosed Goldsteinbergs. please prove Hitler wrong.

>>10566

More stuff, directional block ala Mount and Blade, better magic that doesn't rely so much on mana because frankly the way it works as is can be a tad dull at times. On that, revive old magics that did cool stuffs.

I want polearms, and different methods of attack, like M&B, and some mounted combat.

more creative perks. stuff like "do 20% more damage" or "block 10% more damage" is not only boring, but it's redundant. leveling up your skills already improves those stats, we don't need 2 systems doing the same thing. the bullet-time ability archers get when aiming is an example of a good perk. more stuff that adds to gameplay,

>>10625

Fucking this, perks should be more creative and leveling alone should have a bigger impact on the skill. As of now the difference between 15 and max destruction is a 40% spell cost reduction. No damage boost, nothing.

>>10612

>rip off dragons dogma

aren't they making a second one?

>mounts

mounts really need alot of work in tes.

>character creation

id add a bit of saints row type customization with gestures and shit like that

>>10625

>>10629

Especially in magic, good god. Usually by the time you get the perk, say, 40% off novice spells or whatever, you're using the next level, so it is completely useless. In all my mage characters, I've never put more than a few points on their trees, and that's usually just for things like dual cast, soultrapping conjured weapons, and shit like that.

Please, Todd, bring back Radiant AI. I don't care if they do stupid shit and die sometimes, just flag them as essential unless I attack them or they commit a crime or something, shit. Skyrim's cities were so boring. Speaking of which, they really need to make non-shitty cities. There have been so many city mods for all of their games that it makes me wonder how they've still managed to progressively get worse and worse. That's not really a mechanic, though.

It'd be neat if you could climb buildings, though. Personally, I always thought it would be neat if you could enter a house through the windows, which are usually locked or something.

Another thing I would do is make more dungeons connect to one another without going through the overworld. Hide dungeons inside of dungeons. Basically, apply what they did at Blackreach to every other area of the game.

I know this is totally impossible and there's no chance in hell of this ever happening, but I would kill for no loading screens. If they could magically get GTA 4 tier seamlessness, then I would be pretty happy. I mean, just look at this, this one area has 42 separate places to go into. They're not all super detailed or anything, but I'd kill to have to run from a dungeon and not be saved by the loading screen.

>>10672

item restrictions is how classes work in most RPGs. the point of that is not only that it makes them feel like each has its own style and approach to battle, but also it makes you fill a specific role, so that someone else (your pawns) can fill another role.

if your sorcerer can tank battles in full plate, what's so special about warriors? if your sword n' board fighter can pull out a longbow and start sniping motherfuckers, what's the point of rangers? if your character can fill every role in battle, then classes are just fancy titles, they have no practical use for anything.

>>10684

>If they restricted weapons and armor to classes they'd be removing the one piece that makes an elder scrolls game elder scrolls

They did that in both Arena and Daggerfall.

>>10683

>>10684

Kingdoms of Amalur did a good job with classes. If you don't like restrictions, it had the Jack of all Trades class which lets you use all items, and become considerably proficient (but not master) in skills from every class. I like this approach because it lets you play the "renaissance man" without becoming a gary stu fetcher, and it still rewards specialization.

Being a deity at the end of these games is worth far more than giving them good combat. Especially because Bethesda will never be capable of such a thing, no matter how much it restricts you for the mold they make to 'deliver it'.

If you want good combat or realistically powerful characters, you ought to fuck off. Fuck right off, it will not happen. If it does, it will suck.

>>10677

If you only have 3 basic classes (thief, mage, warrior) then item restrictions work but if there's possibilities for dozens of different builds you'd just be fucking people over

Bethesda just needs to add proper heavy armor penalties for anyone not adept at it through class/race choice for example.

>>10694

You know what I'd like? If at high levels you'd get more enemies thrown at you and actually stronger enemies instead of bandits still using fur armor and iron weapons suddenly dealing double damage and having triple health.

You could have bandit camps with like 30 bandits in leather/steel armor (instead of fur and iron) that properly work together. Some would wield huge shields and just tank you, others would go in dual wielding daggers to chop you up.

>>10704

i can accept bandits getting more numerous and upgrading their gear, as long as there's a good explanation. Like in Skyrim there could have been a sub-narrative about the civil war, where bandits become better armed because they scavenge battlefields, and grow in numbers because deserters from the war join their ranks. I just hate meta-gamey crap like "well you leveled up so enemies are stronger now", give us a logical reason.

>>10704

>You know what I'd like? If at high levels you'd get more enemies thrown at you

Bioware used to do that in their rpg games and the fights would get tedious really quickly even with massive screen clearing D&D spells available. Maybe if it was just for random npc clusters, while quest spawns stayed static.

>>10712

>massive screen clearing D&D spells

man we need those in TES. best part of being a high-level mage is spells that let's you just instantly massacre all the scrubs. like you can just picture your character going "Man get this weak shit out of here." while doing a backhand motion and just wiping out everything in front of him. makes you feel like a boss.

>>10718

Dragon's Dogma sorcerers were really an example of good concept but flawed execution. For a class that's so squishy and vulnerable, they are in sore need of some "don't fucking touch me" spells, like teleportation, mirror images, barriers, whatever. It's the only vocation I did not have a good time at all trying to solo, I got tired of being smacked around by everything while i try to fire off a spell.

It would be pretty nice if the guilds actually behaved like fucking guilds instead of faggy after-school clubs. Like, if you take a few random sidequests to murk bandits or whatever in a particular town, the local Fighters Guild should get on your ass in some way for stealing their business. If you go around robbing houses in a town, the local Thieves Guild chapter should try to coerce you into joining them or try to steal the shit you stole for themselves, or something. If you're going to put "guild" in the name, make it something more than a lame questline.