Can we still discuss ingame lore?

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Can we still discuss ingame lore? Anonymous 01/23/15 (Fri) 06:57:30 No.4742

Is anyone else here tired of Michael Kirkbride? I understand that he is an important figure for the series but I'm so sick of every TES lore board jerking off over his apocrypha. I used plebbit mainly for /teslore, but that place had been going to shit over this very reason even before c0da, and now its even worse. When did one guy's fanfiction trump discussion of actual ingame lore?

Anonymous 01/23/15 (Fri) 12:54:19 No.4747

File: 1422017659267.jpg (257.65 KB, 528x528, 1:1, 1366611847642.jpg)

Anonymous 01/23/15 (Fri) 15:46:49 No.4752

>>4742
>When did one guy's fanfiction trump discussion of actual ingame lore?

Nice b8. Even if Zenimax legally owns TES, it's still MK's brainchild. He's the author of the universe, it's his literature.

Bethesda is like the Peter Jackson of TES: they adapt it, and even own it legally, but it is not truly theirs

(Okay, so technically the Tolkien Estate does have legal ownership over the original texts, but I respect Tolkien out of respect for his writing, not some faggy copyright)

>2015
>being a copyrightfag

Anonymous 01/23/15 (Fri) 20:49:58 No.4762

>>4752
Man, I guess I just no longer can connect with this community then. My OP was b8 sure, but I do recognize that Kirkbride is important. However, unlike LOTR I think TES is more than just his work, as opposed to LOTR being completely Tolkein's work. I certainly enjoy some of MK's apocrypha, such as the concept of CHIM and Vivec v. Azura for example, but I guess c0da just was too much for me. This lore community just isn't the community I fell in love with years ago. Guess I'm just an outdated fetcher.

Anonymous 01/23/15 (Fri) 21:03:13 No.4763

>>4752
If you think MK created the TES universe than you're retarded.

Anonymous 01/23/15 (Fri) 21:09:44 No.4765

If you want threads that don't focus so much on kirkbride, just make threads about other sections of /tes/ lore that Kirkbride hasn't focused much on.
like almost anything involving the Bretons or the Altmer.
Pessimism gets you no where.

Anonymous 01/23/15 (Fri) 21:12:14 No.4766

File: 1422047533917.jpg (2.13 MB, 2000x2767, 2000:2767, MK sketch.jpg)

>>4752
> He's the author of the universe,

Dude, what?

I will confess my deep, but properly manly, love for MK. He has pulled off some really cool stuff. He's pulled off some less than cool stuff as well, but he's still above average.

Anonymous 01/23/15 (Fri) 21:17:33 No.4769

I tend to agree OP, MK has written a lot of cool stuff about the TES universe, but not everything he says is gospel and way too many lorefags suck his dick almost constantly

Anonymous 01/23/15 (Fri) 22:30:40 No.4770

>>4769
I too have grown quite tired of the MK dicksucking. Can't visit a fucking lore thread without seeing some bullshit about c0da

Anonymous 01/23/15 (Fri) 23:19:55 No.4772

>>4765

>>4770 This is the reason I feel the need to bring it up. I just want to be able to take about lore without someone bringing up c0da or mentioning their fucking headcanon.

Anonymous 01/23/15 (Fri) 23:23:24 No.4774

Gonna rant a little here, I'm disappointed in this community for making this a legitimate gripe.

This obsession with MK's work by people both for and against is a direct result of people not understanding something absolutely critical about how this TES lore community got started.

Anyone here from the Redguard Forum days? Anyone remember when devs would discuss lore with us in-character? Anyone here watch the cosmology of TES develop in real fucking time?

They encouraged us to make conjectures and guesses and to discuss what-ifs. They encouraged us to come to some of our own conclusions and to take some measure of responsibility for the lore of this fictional setting.

The cult of MK happened because he's a familiar face who had a big hand in some of the more interesting changes that came with Redguard/Morrowind. He's by far the most visible figure from those early lorefag days and he's still trying to encourage us to be curious and thoughtful and creative.

The problem is that since he's found himself in that position, the lore community started drowning in his particular brand of crazy. Don't get me wrong, I love his work…I just hate that we let it dominate the discussion. I hate that we allowed this to happen. I hate that new people trying to get into the lore get swarmed with it.

c0da was the best thing to happen to TES lore in years, but people are still too slow on the uptake. c0da isn't a Kirkbride thing! It's a "go back to taking responsibility for TES lore" thing! Spend less time dissecting Kirkbride's c0da and go explore your own! Don't fawn over someone elses apocrypha just because it's weird and Kirkbride is weird and it must be deep and meaningful!

So to you outlanders who don't know your roots: Don't start throwing a tantrum when someone brings up obscure or out-of-game sources. If you don't want to deal with that shit then say so. Just know you might be missing out on some pretty cool, well-researched, interesting shit with loads of explanatory power.

Likewise, to you OTHER outlanders who don't know your roots: Quit parroting what the big important-looking names are saying and use your own damn brain. Don't repeat something if you haven't put any thought into it. And always, ALWAYS source your claims! There is no Word Of God, only Word Of Person X / Game Y / Novel Z. "Kirkbride said it" doesn't make it instantly true.
Though you can probably bet on it being real interesting.

Anonymous 01/24/15 (Sat) 00:05:44 No.4777

>>4774
I'll remember to add Battlespire to the list too, since I'm feeling pedantic. Just imagine I said Battlespire/Redguard/Morrowind. Means the same thing.

Anonymous 01/24/15 (Sat) 00:07:23 No.4778

>>4774

I agree with this post for the most part. I think MK's stuff is interesting but I'm just sick of seeing everyone suck his dick is all. Everythread on /r/teslore is "c0da this and c0da that"

Especially when I'm looking into lore about current and past events not the headcanon of someone who's made up their own race.

Anonymous 01/24/15 (Sat) 00:34:24 No.4783

>>4774
>c0da isn't a Kirkbride thing! It's a "go back to taking responsibility for TES lore" thing!

That may or may not be true, but that is certainly not how the majority of people interpret it. Most people only see that Kirkbride wrote it, and then circlejerk over how "nothing is canon" and similar crap.

>They encouraged us to make conjectures and guesses and to discuss what-ifs.

That is exactly what good apocrypha should be, conjectures and interpretation. What its become however is another name for fanfiction, with people just making shit up and hiding behind headcanon and c0da. And MK is directly responsible for this. He stepped outside the boundary of apocrypha and wrote new fiction that exists outside the games, and everyone just lapped it up. Now, you may argue that he has some basis to do so, and to an extent I agree, but by doing so he encouraged other people who had no business of doing that make up their own fiction. And now instead of discussing ingame lore and conjecture based on ingame lore, people are talking almost exclusively about lore that has little to no basis ingame. That's what I have a problem with.

Anonymous 01/24/15 (Sat) 01:45:42 No.4787

>>4783

>Most people only see that Kirkbride wrote it, and then circlejerk over how "nothing is canon" and similar crap.

Canonicity is an entirely different topic.

>That is exactly what good apocrypha should be, conjectures and interpretation.

That's not apocrypha. Apocrypha is when you add something new or significantly expand on vague existing material and give detailed reasons why it would fit. Personal stuff that should always be clearly identified as apocrypha. Apocrypha is optional.

Simple "conjectures and interpretation" are our primary means of understanding TES lore. Much of the in-game lore is either explicitly biased or implicitly unreliable in some way. "Conjectures and interpretation" are not optional.

>What its become however is another name for fanfiction, with people just making shit up and hiding behind headcanon and c0da.

My post didn't address this at all. Again, canonicity is a separate topic.

>And MK is directly responsible for this. He stepped outside the boundary of apocrypha and wrote new fiction that exists outside the games, and everyone just lapped it up.

This is literally false. That was the point of my entire post. What MK did was nothing out of the ordinary. People like you are part of the problem. You think out of game lore is something new and different. Please understand one thing, if nothing else: Out of game lore has been part of our community longer than iPods have been a thing. When someone comes in and tells us we need to stop paying attention to it, that person looks like an absolute moron.

>Now, you may argue that he has some basis to do so, and to an extent I agree, but by doing so he encouraged other people who had no business of doing that make up their own fiction.

Again, you're missing the point. You're making MK out to be some kind of boogeyman.

>And now instead of discussing ingame lore and conjecture based on ingame lore, people are talking almost exclusively about lore that has little to no basis ingame.

This is also wrong. In-game lore is not being left out by any stretch of the imagination. Lore folk expect other lore folk to have a solid grasp of in-game lore by default. It isn't the main focus of discussion because it's literally the basics. It mostly serves as reference material when sources are requested in all those "conjecture based on ingame lore" discussions you seem to be missing out on.

Anonymous 01/24/15 (Sat) 02:51:20 No.4788

File: 1422067880536.jpg (2.6 MB, 3619x5467, 47:71, 1421778097278.jpg)

>>4774
>implying TES isn't a universe where time is multifaceted and conflicting pieces of lore aren't all simultaneously true yet none of them are the sole truth
>implying their space isn't a wheel with many planes of existence
>implying their time isn't a great cycle with no beginning, no end, and no middle
>implying their reality isn't fluid and subjective, with truth and only existing as abstract concepts
>implying you've achieved CHIM

Anonymous 01/24/15 (Sat) 03:33:48 No.4789

>>4787
>Apocrypha is when you add something new or significantly expand on vague existing material and give detailed reasons why it would fit.

No, this is how someone justifies fanfiction on a lore board. Apocrypha is a work of fiction with the intent of expanding upon existing lore, not creating lore and trying to fit it into existing lore. I hope you can see the difference there. The Oversoul theory is apocrypha. Vivec v Azura is not. The former expands on ingame lore. The latter is completely made up. You could say that since MK wrote Vivec, who better to write more stuff about him? However, that still doesn't change that that is still fanfiction, not apocrypha.

>Out of game lore has been part of our community longer than iPods have been a thing.

That "out of game lore" didn't pop out of thin air though, did it? Don't you think think it was based on something? Oh yeah, maybe it was the actual games themselves.

I'll use the example above again. Additional lore based on the Oversoul theory is fine, as the initial apocrypha is based ingame. Additional lore based on MK's personal writings are no longer TES lore, they're MK fiction lore. What it comes down to is a disagreement over what constitutes TES lore in the first place. You claim its whatever the fuck anyone wants to believe. I choose to remember that TES is still a videogame series, and you are bullshitting yourself if you think I'm the only one over the years who has taken this stance before.

>People like you are part of the problem.
No you.

Anonymous 01/24/15 (Sat) 13:36:53 No.4824

After C0DA, TES Lore turns to shit. C0DA is amazing, don't get me wrong, but the idea of every fucking FanFic can/is cannon buffles me.

Anonymous 01/24/15 (Sat) 14:36:41 No.4827

>>4824
It's metaphysics bullshit that ties into the god head CHIM and all that other stuff.

Just because I understand the rational behind it doesn't mean I have to like it though…

Anonymous 02/18/15 (Wed) 05:06:03 No.5412

>>4787
>>4789
No one is the problem.

The problem is people are taking it all way too seriously.

TES is loose enough that anyone can go into t and find something they love. At the end of the day it's about imagination and creating your own adventures.

When people try to turn it into some serious thing that needs to be understood and studied they are slowly losing grip of what made them love TES in the first place.

It's all a game, find what you enjoy and forget the bullshit. Just remember those two things vary between every person.

Anonymous 02/18/15 (Wed) 07:17:57 No.5422

>>4789
>you are bullshitting yourself if you think I'm the only one over the years who has taken this stance before.

You misunderstand us anon. We don't think you're a special snowflake unique in everyway, we think you and people like you are the lore equivalent of those morons who slobber all over Bethesda's cock and think Skyrim is the standard to which all other games must be held you.

Anonymous 02/19/15 (Thu) 21:42:54 No.5467

>>5422
Please don't speak for me, this argument should have died a month ago. >>5412 is making a decent point right now.

Anonymous 02/19/15 (Thu) 22:30:01 No.5469

>>4788
What does Hindu Mythology got to do with any of this though? Except Vivec and his androgyny?

Anonymous 02/20/15 (Fri) 01:16:19 No.5471

>>5469
Most of the metaphysics are shamelessly stolen from Hinduism, Kirkblade didn't even bother to change the name of kalpas.

Anonymous 02/20/15 (Fri) 10:30:47 No.5473

>>5469
The Dreamer is pretty much Brahman, the infinite being that emanates the universe with its thought. All reality is illusion except for it, and enlightenment is obtained by seeing past this illusion.

Anonymous 05/30/15 (Sat) 06:13:54 No.7375

File: 1432966434680.png (96.63 KB, 1571x598, 1571:598, UESP on c0da faggotry.png)

>>4762

CHIM is in universe, c0da isn't, c0da is sci-fi fiction that kirkbride writes, it's not even not canon, according to MK, every interpretation of lore and where it's going is valid, c0da is his, not yours.

Anonymous 05/31/15 (Sun) 00:24:36 No.7395

Maybe I'm blind, but I don't see OP's problem. My best guess is that the poor soul has been going on teslore. Poor fool, yon don't go there. It's a vile place, it's reddit for fucks sake. Retards, casuals and normalfags follow cults of personality on that site.

I really like the metaphysical stuff, which is why I delve deep into MK stuff and basic fan conjecture often. This year I've incorporated Trainwiz's stuff into my canon. He's got the cred, he's based as fuck and his stuff gels very well with the rest of the lore.

It's kind of hard not to go MK because TES metaphysics are his metaphysics and everyone's beliefs and heroes come from metaphysics.

>>7375

>c0da is not even not canon, according to MK

Well, fuck MK. I say it's canon.

Hear me out here.

MK spelled it out for us in c0da - Akatosh is trapped in Lorkhan's heart; dwemer became the skin of Numidium. These make a big part fo what c0da is and they have been in front of our eyes for years. Somehow nobody figured out the first one and second one was a leading theory for a long time. c0da and its lore naturally flow from TES lore and it's a stretch to say it doesn't belong.

>muh science fiction boogeyman

Cyborgs in Tribunal, Sotha Sil dead in wires and Battlespire being a fucking space-I mean void- ship. You can dislike c0da and ignore it, but using sci-fi boogeyman is erroneous.

Anonymous 05/31/15 (Sun) 01:51:04 No.7396

File: 1433037064218.gif (2.71 MB, 237x240, 79:80, 1428066696090.gif)

>>7395

>My best guess is that the poor soul has been going on teslore. Poor fool, yon don't go there. It's a vile place, it's reddit for fucks sake. Retards, casuals and normalfags follow cults of personality on that site

Fucking this

The only thing good about reddit is that it keeps the cancer from coming here.

Anonymous 05/31/15 (Sun) 15:59:06 No.7403

File: 1433087946988.png (2.38 MB, 1920x1080, 16:9, 1392928698478.png)

What's Kirkbride responsible for, anyway?

All Redguard lore is his baby. Basic Nord lore is his stuff. Talos, 8 Divine, Reman, Pelinal - all his. Dwemer, if not wholly his, have been heavily influenced by his ideas. Numidium is probably Kirkbride. He was heavily involved in Dunmer lore. Vivec is his baby. CHIM, Towers, Kalpas, Godhead. Creation stories of all races.

36 Lessons, Remanada, Where Were You When Dragon Broke?, Commentaries on the Mysterium Xarxes, The Song of Pelinal, Sithis, Mysterious Akavir (yes, Akavir is his, too), The Monomyth, Arcturian Heresy, The Firmanent.

I mean…. wow.

>Is anyone else here tired of Michael Kirkbride

Looks to me like 50% of TES is Kirkbride.

Anonymous 05/31/15 (Sun) 16:19:42 No.7406

>>7403

100%

Without MK TES is generic low fantasy shit.

Anonymous 05/31/15 (Sun) 16:58:20 No.7407

>>7403

>All Redguard lore is his baby

That's a big heaping pile of shit

>8 Divine

Kirkbride definitely did not create the Eight Divines, they've been around since Daggerfall.

>Numidium is probably Kirkbride

Numidium was also Daggerfall, Kirkbride expanded on it.

I'm fine with MK lore, but please people, get your shit right.

Anonymous 05/31/15 (Sun) 17:28:49 No.7410

>>7407

Daggerfall being low fantasy shit, you only prove our point.

Anonymous 05/31/15 (Sun) 17:35:20 No.7411

>>7407

Technically you're right, but all three were pretty barebones and conceptually different before MK stepped in.

Anonymous 05/31/15 (Sun) 18:53:49 No.7413

>>7411

Actually Redguards are an exception.

I messed up game timeline in my head, sorry.

Anonymous 05/31/15 (Sun) 22:04:43 No.7424

>>7410

So let me get this straight, the lore is fine when >>7403 says Kirkbride wrote it. But when I correct him, those aspects become "low fantasy shit".

Well aren't you just the biggest fag

also

>double spacing everything

Nice try reddit. Back to /r/teslore with you, where you can worship MK's cock like the rest of the cancer.

>>7411

Yes, I realize that MK did flesh out the lore on the Aedra and the Numidium. I was just saying that he did not create these concepts.

Anonymous 07/01/15 (Wed) 05:35:25 No.7690

>>7396

I used to like teslore. Then one day a discussion somehow veered into LoTR and some fetcher started giving Tolkien shit, saying his take on Orcs was bad because it was "racist" and somehow harmful to black people. Basically everyone defended his retarded point and I realized what a shithole I was in.

Anonymous 07/01/15 (Wed) 17:57:27 No.7692

What reading C0da is like: https://youtu.be/H_XNKsdM0ns?t=24s

I found it to be pretty much nonsensical gibberish of undefined terms, and honestly think people just latch onto it because it was written by a popular figure and advertised as game-changing.

That or I'm just dumb or to impatient, I dunno, but I'll stick to game lore, and wish everyone else would too.

Anonymous 07/04/15 (Sat) 02:54:43 No.7748

File: 1435978483567.jpg (35.22 KB, 600x462, 100:77, 1297313965196.jpg)

>>4742

>>4763

Kirkbride didn't create the games or the original story but he's definitely responsible for making TES lore what it is. There's a reason so much gradual pseudoretconing had to happen, the original concept wasn't nearly as esoteric as he made it.

Anonymous 07/04/15 (Sat) 03:03:25 No.7749

Kirkbride is an after-school-special level alcoholic and drug abuser (read up on his story on how he wrote the 36 sermons) who comes up with some absolutely fantastic ideas but also some total shit.

I won't go on about how much high quality stuff he's put out, but you have to lie to yourself if you want to claim he's not the keystone behind making TES lore as amazing as it is.

That said, holy shit he does a lot that annoys me. I think what's worst of all and the thing that makes me glad he doesn't have unrestrained control is his total reworking of what's most important based on whatever kick he's on. That's what gave us nonsense like the magic internet, space ships and TalOS, etc. His computer/sci fi kick was awful.

Anonymous 07/04/15 (Sat) 03:19:42 No.7751

>>7424

If you don't worship MK's cock, YOU are the cancer.

Anonymous 07/05/15 (Sun) 08:19:19 No.7759

File: 1436084359775.jpg (521 KB, 958x1257, 958:1257, imperialvoidmoth.jpg)

>>7749

Void-Moths are fucking great and you can suck on this dick.

Anonymous 07/05/15 (Sun) 14:13:49 No.7760

>>7759

They fit in very poorly with the lore and series in general, and why does MK feel the need to overextend the whole Imperial moth-shit?

The series is not fucking sci-fi, and telling yourself that it is, is delusional.

Anonymous 07/05/15 (Sun) 21:25:59 No.7762

File: 1436131559191.jpg (801.88 KB, 1680x1050, 8:5, 3417989af5e97da95b1066cf38….jpg)

>>7760

>The series is not fucking sci-fi, and telling yourself that it is, is delusional.

Fuck that, I want the crazy spelljammer shit in the game. There's already too many god damn video games with generic LotR/Hyborian Age/low level D&D settings

Anonymous 07/05/15 (Sun) 23:14:27 No.7763

>>7760

>Waaaah why isn't this like my Game of Thrones

Oh fuck off already. Sci-fi and fantasy are a continuum.

Anonymous 07/05/15 (Sun) 23:15:56 No.7764

>>7760

Also, are you implying that the Battlespire, which is very literally a space station, was created by MK?

Anonymous 07/06/15 (Mon) 03:56:13 No.7768

File: 1436154973865.png (220.3 KB, 420x307, 420:307, battlespire, and look, mou….png)

>>7762

If you seriously believe TES needs sci-fi shit in it to not be "generic", than you are fucking retarded. I swear to god, literally every time someone calls out the space-lore shit for what it is I always see some guy scream about "b-buh then the lore isn't interesting at all", as if being included in a fantasy genre automatically makes something unoriginal.

MK only added the scifi shit so that he could masturbate to how "edgy" and "original" he made TES lore.

>>7763

Your only proving my point further. Do you seriously believe TES lore can't hold its own without fucking space-shit? That without it its just "Game of Thrones"?

Are you implying that the only reason you are interested in TES lore is because of fucking space moths and KINMUNE?

It seems that people only like this space lore because it allows them to circle-jerk about how unique TES lore is.

>>7764

So just because the Battlespire floats it is automatically a space station? In the game it is clearly depicted to be floating within the low atmosphere of its pocket-realm. I highly doubt that anyone referred to the Battlespire as a spacestation before MK started claiming so, and I also doubt the dev team intended it as such.

I'm sure you are one of those guys who thinks Daggerfall is "sci-fi" because it has Numidium.

Anonymous 07/06/15 (Mon) 04:06:30 No.7769

>>7768

>So just because the Battlespire floats it is automatically a space station?

There's only so many words you could use to describe a large enclosed structure that's floating in the empty blackness between worlds…

Anonymous 07/06/15 (Mon) 05:09:13 No.7770

File: 1436159355191.jpg (61.96 KB, 365x511, 5:7, vivic best day ever.jpg)

>>7769

Gold

Anonymous 07/06/15 (Mon) 13:30:28 No.7777

>>7769

That empty blackness between worlds appears to have mountains and an atmosphere.

Anonymous 07/06/15 (Mon) 13:35:54 No.7778

File: 1436189754638.jpg (267.65 KB, 816x816, 1:1, Glorious_Quads.jpg)

>>7777

Anonymous 07/06/15 (Mon) 21:44:12 No.7782

>>7768

You act like sci-fi fantasy wasn't a thing that existed before tes

also

>edgy

You're a gigantic whining fetcher, anon

Anonymous 07/06/15 (Mon) 22:59:17 No.7783

>>7782

>You act like sci-fi fantasy wasn't a thing that existed before tes

Of course it's not, yet, for some reason, people like you still claim that TES is generic without Sci-fi shit.

>edgy

Not everything is a meme fetcher

Anonymous 07/07/15 (Tue) 00:30:04 No.7784

>>7759

I'm >>7749 but not >>7760.

Yeah, I like voidmoths too. I'm not saying it's all bad. I'm on >>7762 's side actually, I like what I guess he's calling spelljammer shit (never heard the term before). What I don't like is when it's too… on the nose I guess? Like the wrist-moth communicators or the wizard-internet.

Anonymous 12/02/15 (Wed) 15:20:52 No.9832

>>7749

>magic Internet

Are there magic imageboards in the MK canon?

The only real downside to incorporating sci-fi into TES is that it gives legitacy to weeb moders on nexus who love to pack their skyrim/data folder with FinalFantasyMiyazakiAnimuAirshipPlayerHome.esp

Anonymous 12/02/15 (Wed) 19:49:09 No.9851

>>4788

>conflicting pieces of lore all simultaneously true

if no one is allowed to be wrong, or a liar, that's fucking boring. intrigue and uncertainty is the spice of any good setting.

Anonymous 12/02/15 (Wed) 19:56:55 No.9852

>>7749

>His computer/sci fi kick was awful.

why, because it strays too far from being a generic Tolkien fantasy-clone? there is nothing objectively wrong with his techno-sorcery stuff, it's just too bad Bethesda doesn't have the balls to go into it any deeper than "muh steampunk" dwemer ruins.

Anonymous 12/02/15 (Wed) 22:25:14 No.9856

File: 1449095115233.png (154.45 KB, 645x277, 645:277, what the fuck is this inco….png)

>>9852

>these retards again

Yah dude, nevermind that its just a load of fucking shoehorned incompatible sci-fi bullshit filled with every made up term MK could whip up that in some manner half-references the lore, it's so original guys! If you don't dine every fucking turd MK lay on the platter then you're obviously just an idiot who should go back to playing Arena and reading the Lord of the Rings. Such idiots probably think Morrowind had good lore, like what!? I mean come on! Morrowind didn't even have a single space ship!

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to read KINMUNE while rubbing by cock.

Anonymous 12/03/15 (Thu) 02:51:54 No.9860

>>9856

Yeah, they seem to just miss the point that Bethesda doesn't have the resources to jump every shark MK or anyone else has ever written as semi-fanfic.

That said, I would fucking love an offshoot game of TES40K with ships made out of metaphorical Vivec penis vs Talos as an emprah.

But

>works on the rarified principles of Phynaster's Inversion, a set of mathematics that doesn't exist in our own dimension

Does not belong in core TES.

In fact, it belongs in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, rather close to a ship known as the Heart of Gold. In fact, if I may be so blasphemous, perhaps not all of MK's fanfics were entirely original?

Anonymous 12/03/15 (Thu) 06:33:20 No.9863

>>9856

>incompatible

pure nonsense. if there is room for the Numidium, and Sotha Sil and his clockwork city. there is certainly room for space-warping mathematics, and KINMUNE. as for originality, how many western high-fantasy settings can you recall that actually conceptualize technological and/or magical progress? also I'm a sucker for neologisms, so that pic ain't gonna deter me. just stop being a baby.

Anonymous 12/03/15 (Thu) 12:16:02 No.9871

File: 1449144962798.jpg (401.62 KB, 1371x1009, 1371:1009, this is not science fictio….jpg)

>>9863

>if there is room for the Numidium, and Sotha Sil and his clockwork city. there is certainly room for space-warping mathematics, and KINMUNE

Well given the fact that the Numidium is just the culmination of the "steampunk" Dwemer, that Sotha Sil's work is clearly an expansion upon Dwemer technology, and that both of these things follow a much more profound fantasy aspect than science fiction, they certainly fit in much better than time traveling robot lady-spaceship from the future who crashes in Tamriel and no one ever talks about and overly contrived science-fiction themes. TES is Fantasy and it follows Fantasy themes, forcing Science-Fiction motifs into TES lore is plainly incompatible and sticks out like a fucking sore-thumb.

Anonymous 12/03/15 (Thu) 12:31:07 No.9873

>>9871

>TES is Fantasy

No.

Fantasy is what happens when you don't develop your universe. Magic doesn't block scientific developement and a universe without sicence, especially with 6000+ years of history is bullshit. I fully expect them to have strange mathematics and space ships.

KINMUNE as a story is a bit questionable but TES is still a normal world with science, fiction and fantasy

Anonymous 12/03/15 (Thu) 13:09:04 No.9876

>>9873

>Fantasy is what happens when you don't develop your universe. Magic doesn't block scientific developement and a universe without sicence, especially with 6000+ years of history is bullshit. I fully expect them to have strange mathematics and space ships

But they don't, like it or not, TES exists in a universe where swords and daggers are somehow still practical in a world where people can shoot fucking lighting bolts out of their fingertips. Scientific progression and technologies have very little meaning or importance in the lore. TES is fantasy and will always be fantasy, Kirkbride at least realized this with C0DA (even if C0DA did have weird allegorical superhero shit). Shit like KINMUNE does not fit at all into the lore, hell, it even seems to break MKs own lore seeing as it takes place 4 eras after the end of the Aurbis and recordable time.

Anonymous 12/03/15 (Thu) 17:40:50 No.9883

>>9871

>Numidium is just the culmination of the "steampunk"

>Sotha Sil's work is clearly an expansion upon Dwemer technology

I'm sure there is more stuff at work inside the Numidium than steam; even the lore will tell you that. Even Skyrim displayed technological feats way beyond steampower, like the Lexicon (basically a flash drive), and a computer capable of decrypting elder scrolls.

And Sotha Sil is hardly steampunk; his tech-level blatantly crosses into circuitry and cybernetics. In the context of all that, nothing about spaceships or robots is out of place. Just face the fact that TES is unconventional, and you're grasping at straws because you have an autistic need for the setting to fit your fantasy tropes.

Anonymous 12/03/15 (Thu) 20:03:53 No.9887

>>9876

Just no.

>Scientific progression and technologies have very little meaning or importance in the lore

In games. Especially since all games are set in the dark ages. If only we could see space race with Reman in the second era. That would be amazing. High tech and strong society.

>TES is fantasy and will always be fantasy

This statement is completely retarded. Numidium in Daggerfall, spaceship in Battlespire, slipstream and memospore technology beth talked before Kirkbide even joined the company, cyborgs in Tribunal, electronics in Sotha Sil' Clockwork City and dwemer computers in Skyrim. If you call that straight up fantasy, you're delusional.

>Shit like KINMUNE does not fit at all into the lore

Shows how little you know. KINMUNE is the only survivor of a deleted timeline.

Trainwiz 12/03/15 (Thu) 22:23:50 No.9904

File: 1449181431002.jpg (120.1 KB, 1488x976, 93:61, smashsmashawooga.jpg)

>>9883

yeah, Sotha Sil left behind "steampunk" long ago. His city is literally covered in circuitboards, he's got wires and beeping buttons hooked up to his crotch, and the Imperfect looks like something out of System Shock. It's ironically not got a lot of clockwork. Even the gears that exist have circuitboards.

Anonymous 12/04/15 (Fri) 00:48:48 No.9910

>>9871

>I'm sure there is more stuff at work inside the Numidium than steam; even the lore will tell you that.

Jesus Christ, you've blatantly missed my point. First of all, the reason I put steampunk in quotes to begin with was because that was what >>9852 called it, and beyond face value, that's completely wrong too.

Numidium is the fucking farthest thing from science fiction, it's the apotheosis of Dwemer culture, built up to god. There is nothing science fiction about the fucking Dwemer, at all. Anumidum would be, if anything, most relatable to Adam Kadmon, or the fucking Tower of Babel.

>And Sotha Sil is hardly steampunk; his tech-level blatantly crosses into circuitry and cybernetics

Well if you didn't happen to fucking read my post, I had never called Sotha Sil's work steampunk and I used the term 'steampunk ironically anyways. What I did imply however was that Sotha Sil expanded and improved upon Dwemer works.

>Just face the fact that TES is unconventional, and you're grasping at straws because you have an autistic need for the setting to fit your fantasy tropes

The only thing I have an autistic need for is actually good lore, and people not sucking MKs dick everytime he creates shit which only succeeds to inflate his ego to create shittier shit.

>>9887

If only we could see space race with Reman in the second era

Well, first off, Reman reigned in the First Era. Second off, flying on the back of a giant moth isn't what I would necessarily call the greatest technological innovation. The mothships themselves are just another one of MKs plastered on sci-fi shit anyways, which makes your point here rather unsuitable. Anyways, they're mentioned like once in a text that not even the Imperial Library has recorded, and given the famous contention of Reman's reality and myth, one could easily say they never fucking existed in the first place.

>this statement is completely retarded. Numidium in Daggerfall, spaceship in Battlespire, slipstream and memospore technology

>actually believing that Numidium and the Battlespire are Sci-fi

Jesus fucking Christ.

I feel like it should also be mentioned that, before MK, the Dreamsleeve had no real definition at all. It was just a namedrop in one of Battlespire's quests.

>No no no no no. Ken made up the word. I then took it and went all Al Gore and turned it into the internet. Though, really, if you read through the Intercept stuff, I really predicted Mind Twitter. Cuz I'm a Jesus an' all.

-Kirkbride

Communication through magical means had been mentioned before MK, but it certainly wasn't fucking mind Twitter.

>Shows how little you know. KINMUNE is the only survivor of a deleted timeline.

Well that doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere in the text, and I can't think of any thing else that actually mentions KINMUNE. If this is just one of those accepted pseudo-truths, then I'll just say its much easier to just fuck KINMUNE and forget about it.

Anonymous 12/04/15 (Fri) 03:14:30 No.9912

>>9910

>If this is just one of those accepted pseudo-truths

That future got squished due to landfall. Mundus never got to the sixth era. Thus, it's a deleted history. Also a reminder there are jills in the very story trying to erase the future.

>Well, first off, Reman reigned in the First Era

True, his death started the second era.

>giant moth isn't what I would necessarily call the greatest technological innovation

>actually believing that Numidium and the Battlespire are Sci-fi

>There is nothing science fiction about the fucking Dwemer

You're denying it so hard, you might zero sum yourself. Be careful.

Anyway, MK is a bleeding heart liberal retard. He's obnoxious and I cut my ties to him after interacting slightly with the dude. I don't like him at all. But his sci-fantasy lore is great

Anonymous 12/04/15 (Fri) 04:36:30 No.9913

File: 1449203790848.jpg (979.52 KB, 2000x2774, 1000:1387, adam-kadmon-anatomie-occul….jpg)

>>9912

>Also a reminder there are jills in the very story trying to erase the future

It just says the Jills are fighting the Hist

>True, his death started the second era.

That would be Reman III

>You're denying it so hard, you might zero sum yourself. Be careful.

Just because something is metal and walks doesn't automatically make it a science-fiction robot. There is nothing scientific or futuristic about the Numidium, it's not a mass of brass pipes, its a fucking god and it was built like a god. Pic related, Diagram of Adam Kadmon, the best relation I can make. As I said before the Tower of Babel is also a good analogy of building to godhood, especially given the fact that the Lessons state that Anumidum was built in the likeness of Vivec and City-Face (in other words, a city).

As for the Battlespire, it's a fucking castle sitting on a rock that floats maybe a mile above the ground. It was clearly never intended to be a spacestation, that's just shit MK pulled out of his ass.

I really don't think I should even have to explain why the Dwemer aren't fucking science fiction.

Anonymous 12/04/15 (Fri) 12:55:57 No.9916

>hurr durr elder scrolls is generic if we don't include spaceships in it

Anonymous 12/04/15 (Fri) 23:56:10 No.9927

>>9916

>Hurr durr Tatterdemalion is stupid because I say so because I don't like it.

Anonymous 12/05/15 (Sat) 06:24:07 No.9932

>>9916

there is literally no reason not to include them.

Anonymous 12/05/15 (Sat) 07:39:39 No.9933

>>9873

>No.

Yes.

>Fantasy is what happens when you don't develop your universe.

Fantasy is when you do develop your universe according to blatantly and intentionally unrealistic and inexplicable designs instead of speculatively and tangentially forward from current technology (that's science fiction). Fantasy, by contrast, is often based on concepts, stories, and things from religions, myth, and folklore. Which TES, by the way, is. Heavily. None of this is difficult to grasp.

>a universe without sicence, especially with 6000+ years of history is bullshit. I fully expect them to have strange mathematics and space ships

Then don't play TES games, because they're fantasy.

>>9883

>I'm sure there is more stuff at work inside the Numidium than steam; even the lore will tell you that.

Yeah, no shit.

>gears

>electricity

>souls

>the heart of lorkhan/the mantella

>the malice of an entire trapped race

>tonal magic and steampunk gear-and-lens things to amplify tonal magic and light

>pure logical thoughtforms which directly and magically act on the world

>mystery

>the Lexicon (basically a flash drive)

HERP DERP JUST LIKE A SOUL GEM IS A BATTERY, SO IT'S TOTALLY NOT FANTASY

>a computer capable of decrypting elder scrolls.

So you just fucking completely ignored that whole explanation about the refraction of the knowledge, then, in order to weave this into your twisted headcanon so you can pretend TES is not fantasy? Wow.

>muh clockwork city

Sotha Sil is a god, like Vivec, so he can dream up and shape into reality whatever bizarrely autistic lore-breaking stuff he wants to…like Vivec. This is of course best left out of the games and in MK's writings. Even the sort of sad, lame dungeon we get in the DLC is just the entryway, and the blocked entrance to the actual city couldn't make it any clearer; this is a god's autism and it doesn't belong in the game proper because it doesn't fit the lore, just like you don't see Vivec floating around High Rock bathing in ultraviolet feathers or whatever. Retextured Dwemer stuff with the new textures being "leads and buttons!" but still all brass was a teaser without actually putting tech in the game.

>face the fact that TES is unconventional, and you're grasping at straws because you have an autistic need for the setting to fit your fantasy tropes.

Face the fact the TES is quintessential fantasy fare, and you're grasping at straws because you have an autistic need for the setting to include your sci-fi tropes.

>In games.

Yes, and the conversation was about what should be put into the games.

>Numidium

Magic. Tonal architecture CHIM, brass-gear-steampunk-assisted. It used the heart of a fucking god for fuel and to actuate its will. The heart of a god. The very most magical, unscientific thing it could possibly have in it.

>Battlespire

It's a magical castle that moves between dimensions. It is the work of battlemages. Not technicians or even Dwemer, Imperial battlemages. "Space" in TES is just what Mundus races see, or rather don't see, when they look out of the world at Oblivion.

>memospore technology

Please tell me you're just trying to be snarky and are not actually this stupid.

A memospore is memory preserved in pure magic. It is the most magical, least explained, most obscurely referred to thing you could pick to try to pretend it's technological.

>dwemer computers

It's the magical metaphor of a telescope looking into TES. Lenses, mirrors, magic, brass. That's it.

It is the straightest-up of all straight-up fantasy and you are retarded.

>KINMUNE is the only survivor of a deleted timeline.

There are essentially unlimited timelines covering up to all possible permutations of anything ever happening suitable to any genre, so long as the loop keeps happening and the dreaming god doesn't wake up or realize it's a dream. This is handy for when the writers freely contradict other writers out of poor organization, but it does not change all of the games in the series being set in one overall timeline (remember, dragon breaks are not resets, just live edits to the reality). If they just started throwing anything from any other possible timeline into this one in the games, there'd be no point to the separation of the resets anyways.

Anonymous 12/05/15 (Sat) 07:45:43 No.9934

>>4742

>66 comments later

>discussing out-of-game lore

>discussing Kirkbride and his lore

>jerking off over his apocrypha

>one guy's fanfiction trumping discussion of actual in-game lore

Sort of sad, really.

It's because he writes religiously, you know, the grand mystery of this and that, and he has the literacy and creativity to create tantalizing nothings that appeal to everyone and especially schizotypal people. So by having read about Vivec lusting after Cyrus, and three other texts where MK puts in non-applicable adjectives which create metaphoric impressions that people struggle to define because after a point they stop inferring from his intentions and are just fabricating meanings which were never there and feeling wise. He could just use the actual context-appropriate adjectives for anything literal or figurative, but he doesn't because that makes it mundane, less tantalizing, harder to backpedal on, and not as "magicky".

Anonymous 12/05/15 (Sat) 07:59:21 No.9936

Is it just me or all most of Kirkbride's stuff full of buzzwords and shit never mentioned in-game?

Anonymous 12/05/15 (Sat) 08:07:35 No.9937

>>9936

Yeah that's what we're talking about mainly.

Also for every two philosophical buzzwords, he just grabs a noun and a verb and glues them together to refer to something vague. Some of them are really clever and associate the cognitive overlap of the senses nicely, some of them are just random bullshit he throws in.

Anonymous 12/05/15 (Sat) 10:14:51 No.9939

File: 1449310492108.png (169.18 KB, 310x325, 62:65, 34342688045.png)

>>9933

lol why is it so important to you whether TES is called fantasy or not? i can't relate to this level of autism. my only problem was people saying Kirkbride's ideas are "out of place". if you're so hung up on technology not belonging to the setting, than just call it magic. there, problem solved.

frankly i don't care what genre TES belongs to, and I don't agree that content and subject matter should be limited by a silly marketing label.

Anonymous 12/05/15 (Sat) 19:17:51 No.9945

File: 1449343072020.gif (1.39 MB, 200x150, 4:3, 1438626291303.gif)

>>9939

>my only problem was people saying Kirkbride's ideas are "out of place"

>rankly i don't care what genre TES belongs to, and I don't agree that content and subject matter should be limited by a silly marketing label

what was said: >>9851

>why, because it strays too far from being a generic Tolkien fantasy-clone? there is nothing objectively wrong with his techno-sorcery stuff, it's just too bad Bethesda doesn't have the balls to go into it any deeper than "muh steampunk" dwemer ruins.

>>9887

>If you call that straight up fantasy, you're delusional

>>9912

>You're denying it so hard, you might zero sum yourself. Be careful

Then, when you have nothing else to defend your argument, you:

>attempt to dismiss the argument as stupid despite having started it yourself

>pretend that you were arguing about something else the entire time

>use the term "autist" unironically on a board made for autistic in-depth discussion

Wow what a stupid post!

Anonymous 12/05/15 (Sat) 20:33:09 No.9947

File: 1449347590793.jpg (48.56 KB, 480x622, 240:311, 346736234.jpg)

>>9945

>he thinks he's talking to one person

Anonymous 12/06/15 (Sun) 00:46:45 No.9950

>>9947

Given the general response rate and defensiveness, yes I did assume

are one person. And even if you do happen to not be one person, which I still doubt, you're still following the same argument which keeps my point valid anyways.

Anonymous 12/06/15 (Sun) 02:13:12 No.9953

>>9950

you didn't make any points dude, stop embarrassing yourself.

Anonymous 12/06/15 (Sun) 02:29:14 No.9954

>>9953

My point was that >>9939 is a retard, which I thought was made pretty clear. Though I suppose you could just be retarded too if not the same person.

Anonymous 12/06/15 (Sun) 03:21:46 No.9959

File: 1449372106642.png (234.98 KB, 411x365, 411:365, 97867356234.png)

>>9954

>calling others retard

>not realizing the irony

Anonymous 12/06/15 (Sun) 03:23:52 No.9960

>>9939

>i can't relate to this level of autism

You can't relate to participating in the argument you are in fact participating in. If you're going to try to backpedal, at least put in some effort.

>limited by a silly marketing label

No one but you is talking about marketing labels, so don't think you can get away with that strawman.

Just because dripping menstrual blood onto a canvas can be defined as art, doesn't mean it belongs in every art gallery or you're being oppressed if someone doesn't want to hang a true "period piece" in their gallery.

>>9947

>>9959

There we have it. The final retreat into le smug animu poster. The final display of being incapable of carrying on human-level conversation if your feelings get hurt because someone disagrees with your opinion.

Anonymous 12/06/15 (Sun) 03:53:11 No.9961

File: 1449373991891.gif (223.19 KB, 191x256, 191:256, 56784678454.gif)

>>9960

you're getting less and less coherent the more upset you get. your comments are like a guy slipping all over ice.

Anonymous 12/06/15 (Sun) 04:18:04 No.9962

>>9961

>n-no u!

The best part is that having already chided anon for not acknowledging your multiple personalities, you can't even follow links conversationally and don't realize yourself that you're not talking to the same person.

Anonymous 12/06/15 (Sun) 04:22:30 No.9963

File: 1449375750777.gif (493.21 KB, 460x188, 115:47, 1447053543347.gif)

>>9961

If you are >>9959 and you think >>9960 is me ( >>9954), then you are wrong.

Jesus fucking Christ, this board needs fucking IDs.

Also you're a retard who has let their argument spiral into the most pathetic standing I've ever seen. I'm sure you're telling yourself you've been trolling the whole time or something

keep saging idiot

Anonymous 12/06/15 (Sun) 04:23:21 No.9964

>>9963

It doesn't need IDs, it just doesn't need this poster.

Anonymous 12/06/15 (Sun) 06:52:54 No.9972

File: 1449384774426.jpg (108.12 KB, 1253x930, 1253:930, 45354123137.jpg)

>>9963

>keep saging idiot

why would i bump a total non-discussion? continue not making any sense, please.

Anonymous 12/06/15 (Sun) 07:51:15 No.9974

File: 1449388275070.jpg (27.06 KB, 400x300, 4:3, plank.jpg)

>>9972

Because this board gets like maybe 1pph so I can guarantee you this thread will stay on the front page for almost another week, especially given the fact that nobody else is fucking saging.

Anonymous 12/07/15 (Mon) 00:20:27 No.10006

File: 1449447628228.gif (1.02 MB, 190x167, 190:167, kingofpopcorn1.gif)

>>9974

>implying I would sage

Sperg arguments are my favorite spectator sport

Anonymous 12/07/15 (Mon) 05:54:03 No.10013

I lost track of what the fuck we're even arguing about.

Anonymous 12/07/15 (Mon) 14:15:30 No.10018

>>10013

in a nutshell

> muh head-cannon fantasy universe is better than yours

Anonymous 12/07/15 (Mon) 17:52:26 No.10025

>>10018

Electricity, circuit boards and gods wired to computers are not headcanon, though. They are science fiction.

Anonymous 12/07/15 (Mon) 21:13:44 No.10027

File: 1449522825066.jpg (147.39 KB, 925x1032, 925:1032, blueeyedcat.jpg)

>>10025

> electricity is science fiction

I'm not the guy you're arguing with, frankly I agree that the whole spaceships etc. stuff is a bit much, but jesus anon - think before you hit the post button

Anonymous 12/07/15 (Mon) 22:39:32 No.10028

>>10027

> electricity is science fiction

I don't see the problem here. In the most autistic way it ain't, but in practice it tends to always be so, fam.

Anonymous 12/08/15 (Tue) 03:52:51 No.10034

>>10025

>>10028

See here is why you're such an idiot, you honestly believe that just because fucking wires appear with Sotha Sil, that this automatically makes it science-fiction. You're that much of a fucking moron that you fail to recognize the fact that genres are based on thematic and overtly stylistic patterns and not miniscule details that appear on an incredibly infrequent basis. What is even more annoying is that many of these concepts used to support your standings are clearly not sci-fi based, but then you straight-up reinterpret the lore to support your stupid identifications.

In short, wires are fantasy when they are admitted into a clear fantasy based world.

Anonymous 12/08/15 (Tue) 13:01:46 No.10045

>>10034

I'm this guy >>10027 and I think I can help to end this back-and-forth.

I *think* that the point the other guy is trying to make is that in a universe where people can manipulate electrical currents through "magic" and so on the idea that electrical systems as we know them would work or even be viable there is far from certain, and based on things like the Dwemer achieving what they did via methods that simply wouldn't work in our universe we can infer that the "science/physics" that we understand from our universe are not likely to function in the same way in the ES universe.

In a nutshell I think what he is saying (though I could be wrong, and if I am please step in and correct me) is this:

> "fantasy" = a story set in a different universe in which specific scientific laws are altered to allow things like magic (e.g. LOTR, ES, Star Wars - "force"), they can be set in the past, present or future, but the key point is that the world allows some form of "magic" that is not possible in our world

> "science fiction" = a universe with the same physics and scientific laws as ours, but a set in an alternative futuristic time where the technology allows things that are not possible now, but all the technology still operates within the science and physics of our universe (e.g. Star Trek)

Hope this helps to end this argument

Anonymous 12/08/15 (Tue) 21:47:28 No.10051

>>10034

kek

TES has clearly defined physics and metaphysics. Whenever an outlandish thing happens, we can explain it through logic.

Furthermore, it uses forces like electricity and constructs such as robots which appear almost exclusively in science fiction.

Lastly, there's a narrative and a hard focus on scientific progress among Dwemer and Sotha Sil.

So, we have theory, practice and focus on science. It's science fiction.

See, this is why you're such an idiot that you honestly believe just because it has swords it must be fantasy.

>>10045

This anon is also partly right.

Anonymous 12/09/15 (Wed) 14:12:03 No.10057

>>10051

In his defense (I'm the other guy that jumped in a few posts ago):

> Furthermore, it uses forces like electricity and constructs such as robots which appear almost exclusively in science fiction.

I don't think this is a great example - there is clearly some sort of magical mechanism with the Dwemer automatons evidenced by the soul gems they carry. Though we can't really be sure, I think the best guess is that they are steam an magic based in terms of their functionality as evidenced by the soul gems, and the fact they give off steam in combat. There is even some confusion regarding how they are linked to the Heart of Lorkhan…

That said I certainly agree that there are non "magic" mechanisms in the Elder Scrolls universe that do come under the science category.

> Lastly, there's a narrative and a hard focus on scientific progress among Dwemer and Sotha Sil.

> So, we have theory, practice and focus on science. It's science fiction.

Again, I'd be lying if I said I completely agreed with you - let me clarify:

While you're absolutely spot on in saying there is a big focus on advancement and technology with the Dwemer and Sotha Sil, this isn't strictly speaking pure scientific advancement. Yes, they are utilizing technological advancements, but the key point is that these are heavily intertwined with magical advancements. To separate Dwemer "science" and "magic" isn't really possible as the two are pretty much one and the same and are used interchangeably and in unison.

I guess you could argue that to all intents and purposes "magic" is just an aspect of the universe laws in Elder Scrolls, so all "magic" is really "science" in our sense of the word as it is just trying to understand the laws of the universe…

I guess what I am saying is that Elder Scrolls is very much a "fantasy" universe rather than the classical "science fiction" - I can certainly agree that the differentiation is hazy at best and that Elder Scrolls certainly contains elements that could be almost science fiction in nature, however the key for me is that even with this "science" in the ES universe, it is so irrevocably intertwined and reliant on magical mechanisms, that it isn't really "science" in our sense.

I'd say that Elder Scrolls is a fantasy in the same sense that something like star wars is a fantasy, both are set in an alternative universe where magic/force is present and shapes the mechanisms and laws of the world (obviously in different degrees) but still retain sci-fi elements in terms of "science" that is in advance of our own.

Anonymous 12/09/15 (Wed) 15:15:30 No.10061

>>4742

As it turns out, OP…no, no we can't.

Anonymous 12/09/15 (Wed) 16:55:29 No.10064

>>10051

Oh, so that's why it's all spells, mysticism, unknowable dream-versions of reality, because it's sci-fi.

Anonymous 12/09/15 (Wed) 20:52:01 No.10068

>>10051

>there's a narrative and a hard focus on scientific progress among Dwemer and Sotha Sil.

The Dwemer are progressing to completing the rituals they need to build a new god that can refute existence and create a new and better godhead and Sotha Sil is assembling a big ass clockwork ritual circle to reinforce the earthbones. That ain't science anymore than alchemy is chemistry.

Anonymous 12/09/15 (Wed) 21:28:15 No.10069

File: 1449696495237.png (70.91 KB, 287x390, 287:390, big guy.png)

>>10051

>TES has clearly defined physics and metaphysics. Whenever an outlandish thing happens, we can explain it through logic

I can't wait to see your explanation on why a Dragon Break is totally sci-fi.

>Furthermore, it uses forces like electricity and constructs such as robots which appear almost exclusively in science fiction

Really? "electricity"! You legitimately believe electricity is fucking niched to Science-Fiction! I shoot electricity out of my fucking hands when I play TES, which brings up a fun fact truthfully. The only times the terms "electricity" and "electric" are ever used in reference to the lore trickles down to spell names, and one brief mentioning in an ESO book describing a magical effect. Funny thing really, I don't believe it is ever mentioned, or even observed for that matter, that electricity plays any part in Sotha Sil's apparatus. Not that that this even applies to my argument anyways, I'm just trying to point out how stupid yours is.

>Lastly, there's a narrative and a hard focus on scientific progress among Dwemer and Sotha Sil

There is not a single example of scientific progression with the Dwemer, from what we can conclude from the lore, they always had their technology and they always had their robot companions. Said robots never show any signs of technological progression. There is nothing about them that clearly improves upon modern technology (beyond what is obviously magical effects).

There is no practical or identifiable method as to how these devices function beyond the magical powers of 'it just works'. A fucking steaming heap of moving scrap metal would make just as much sense.

>you honestly believe just because it has swords it must be fantasy

It's quite astonishing that you can't even wrap your head around the bold letters in my last post which make it pretty clear that it I don't believe swords define fantasy.