So I'm a pretty big slowfag, just finished Oblivion for the first time tonight and I have some questions regarding the Mythic Dawn and Mehrunes Dagon in general.To start off, how on level was Mankar and his cult here? He was spitting some heavy truths

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File: 1422074140226.png (794.86 KB, 1024x768, 4:3, MankarCamoran.png)

Anonymous 01/24/15 (Sat) 04:35:40 No.4792

So I'm a pretty big slowfag, just finished Oblivion for the first time tonight and I have some questions regarding the Mythic Dawn and Mehrunes Dagon in general.

To start off, how on level was Mankar and his cult here? He was spitting some heavy truths regarding the nature of the Nine and how Cyrodil, and the rest of the world, was Mehrunes Dagons rightful land, but considering this could just be some slander Dagoth fed him when he was drinking da Koolaid when wandering one too many days in the sun I wouldn't be too surprised, especially since he labeled the fucking domains of the Daedra wrong in his little speech.
Though what doesn't seem to be contradicted too badly is the whole thing regarding Lorkhan, how he was the one who did all the work constructing the worlds and the 8 cast him down but couldn't remove him completely. The story that's being spun is so wild with the whole 'Imperial Clergy has been spinning lies from the start' make it hard to discredit but again his source of information is the god of destruction and revolution\change, so it wobbles on whether that's on the level or not. But still, that keeps it from being rightfully Dagons and still belonging to Lorkhan, or whatever left of him

And another thing that bugged me is how this fucker can wear the Amulet of Kings, is there an in depth reason for this that I missed because no one comments on it which is kind of a big deal. Is it just that in his pocket dimension he can fuck the charms or whatever that keep anyone but those of Septim blood to wear it, or did a Septim really dip their dick in an elf somewhere along the line?

Apologies if this has been covered to death before, but I didn't see too much similar in the catalog and I only found out about this board today when someone was shilling it on /v/ and thought I'd stop by.

Anonymous 01/24/15 (Sat) 04:51:52 No.4793

>>4792
I dunno, good observation about the amulet though!

Anonymous 01/24/15 (Sat) 04:53:53 No.4794

>>4792
Wouldn't be the first time a Septim fucked an elf…last time they just aborted the baby.

On Dagon…I think they wanted that to be left up to the player to make up their own mind. And when you start getting into the lore it seems like what Dagon says could be true.

imo he's a fetcher and speaks half truths or flat out lies.

Anonymous 01/24/15 (Sat) 05:05:31 No.4801

>>4794
>imo he's a fetcher and speaks half truths or flat out lies.

He lied to his followers about the nature of Paradise, so that really isn't much of a stretch.

Anonymous 01/24/15 (Sat) 05:09:04 No.4803

>>4801
That's something I found amusing, these people joined a death cult to the god of Destruction and expected happy frolicking meadows? For fucks sake they're put in what is essentially Valhalla, you think a bigger number of them wouldn't be pussies about it.

The one turncoat said people got put in the lava baths because they were griping about their new eternal lives, makes me wonder about the caliber of his cultists and how many joined just because they liked the fancy robes.

Anonymous 01/24/15 (Sat) 05:12:48 No.4804

>>4803
Why do people join batshit crazy cults today? Mankar was probably pretty charismatic about the whole thing, and batshit crazy cultists usually aren't the brightest of folk in the first place.

Anonymous 01/24/15 (Sat) 05:16:39 No.4806

>>4792
On the subject of Manakar's ramblings, he is either lying or delusional. Lying because he gets a free personal plane of Oblivion in return, or delusional because he believed that Dagoth Ur was actually Lorkhan, ergo Nirn would actually be his rightful plane.

>how this fucker can wear the Amulet of Kings

He wouldn't be the first non-Septim to do it. Reman Cyrodiil did it before him, and I'm sure there were others as well. I'm not too kept up on my Amulet of Kings knowledge, but this would be a good stating point: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Amulet_of_Kings

Anonymous 01/24/15 (Sat) 05:57:24 No.4812

>>4801
>hey guys I'm going to make a world and it's going to be awesome and you'll all get to be kings in my new world
>whoops looks like I left something in the fine print, teehee aren't I a stinker?

Dude was clearly trying to mantle Lorkhan

Anonymous 01/24/15 (Sat) 06:56:42 No.4814

>>4792
The Mythic Dawn Commentaries heavily imply that Mankar's actual goal is what we see at the end of C0DA. The destruction of Nirn and the creation of the New-Man, hence 'Nu-Mantia'.

As for the Amulet of Kings. I think I remember some speculation that Mankar had made himself into a Dragonborn or something. I think the idea finds its basis in this line of the Commentaries.
>Offering myself to that daybreak allowed the girdle of grace to contain me. When my voice returned, it spoke with another tongue. After three nights I could speak fire.

Anonymous 01/24/15 (Sat) 11:58:19 No.4821

>>4794
>Wouldn't be the first time a Septim fucked an elf…last time they just aborted the baby.

>Forgetting Katariah, Cassynder and Uriel IV (I think)

Anonymous 01/24/15 (Sat) 11:59:52 No.4822

>>4814
It was obvious Mankar desired a return to the dawn era ala the Thalmor. I mean, it's fucking called "Mythic Dawn", for crying out loud. Unlike the Thalmor, he seemed to actually like Lorkhan and despised the Divines.

Anonymous 01/24/15 (Sat) 16:32:36 No.4831

File: 1422117156309.jpg (8.6 KB, 275x142, 275:142, M.E...jpg)

>>4792
Well if we're talking about Mankor it should be interesting to note that while he has no relation at all to the Septims apparently, he is the bastard son of a Bosmer usurper named Haymon Camoran king who outright fucked Valenwood, Hammerfell, and some of Highrock and even made it to Tamriel with a trained army of s'wits and, apparently, a load of Daedra backing, where he fucked up Kvatch, also where the first Oblivion gate was opened which is kind of neat.

Anyways in the book The Refugees we get some details of those fleeing his armies but more importantly at the end we have the birth of a child the mother names Mankar before literally running out even though she had a sword wound to the leg. Problem is they're both Bosmer but hey, maybe it's a transcription error and she was just an ugly and short Altmer.
Anyways to get us back on track this was all between 249-267, and the Mythic Dawn didn't make a splash until 433 but given the fancy elf lifespan this really isn't that crazy an idea to think they're the same dude.

Now how this all effects how he can wear the amulet of kings I have a stupid little theory, now considering his Daddy made his move on Tamriel while having the backing of some Daedric forces we can sort of guess it was Mehrunes Dagon trying to separate approaches, because who says lord of Destruction has to be stupid. So once Mankar reaches a certain age Big D gives him his copy of Dianetics or whatever and he's all set for take two of Tamriel and shutting off the Dragon Fires.
Now, to get to the Amulet of kings the whole Septim thing might be bullshit, yes it might have been worn exclusively by and made for them, but it has to be something else other than the rules in his own pocket dimension considering he was wearing it when he was giving his inaugural speech at the Shrine of Dagon, it can be thought that to wear the amulet you need one of two things
1)The strength of will nand character as befitting an emperor\king, which I think despite being a complete ponce Mankar has
2)The backing of a divine being to justify your rule, in this case being Mehrunes Dagon
3)This is far fetched but might as well say it, according to Imperial lore you need to be dragon born to use the Amulet, so perhaps Haymon or someone further up the line was a Dragonborn as well, and the lingering amounts of dragon blood in the system allows the fucker to wear it like it aint no thing, but this depends if you think the Imperial Propaganda is telling the truth this time.

That's all I got to say on that.
Fucking elves.

Anonymous 01/24/15 (Sat) 19:02:20 No.4834

>>4822
The only thing in common that both Mankar and the Thalmor wanted was the destruction of Nirn. Other than that, Mankar's goals are extremely Lorkhanic
Commentaries:
>"Know that then you are royalty, a new breed of destroyer, whose garden shall flood with flowers known and unknown, as it was in the mythic dawn. Thus shall you return to your first primal wail and yet come out different. It shall this time be neonymbiosis, master akin to Master"
>"in the garden of the Dawn we shall breathe whole realities."
>"Endlessly it shall form and reform around you, deeds as entities, all-systems only an hour before they bloom to zero sums, flowering like vestments, divine raiment worn to dance at Lord Dagon's golden feet"
>"Numantia cast down their jailer king, Maztiak, which the Xarxes Mysterium calls the Arkayn."
>"You, brother, are to sit with me in Paradise and be released of all unknowns."
These quotes have 'flower child' and 'breaking all limits' written all over them.

Anonymous 01/25/15 (Sun) 02:50:45 No.4850

>>4831
I think it was stated Mankar Camoran used the Razor to cut himself into a new, Altmeri shape.

Anonymous 03/20/15 (Fri) 06:45:57 No.6071

Mankar was too easy to defeat. I still have his shitty staff. Never use it.

Anonymous 03/21/15 (Sat) 02:27:06 No.6083

>>4806
Being a Septim has nothing to do with it.

The first wearer was Alessia and she was just chosen by Akatosh.
Reman Cyrodiil perhaps had Alessia as his ghost-mum, or was simply made by Akatosh so he was allowed to wear it.
Tiber Septim was also chosen by Akatosh.

This is what the dragonblood is, and it's the only requirement to wearing the Amulet of Kings.

Anonymous 05/20/15 (Wed) 04:44:24 No.7176

He speaks truths but isn't actually particularly smart, and is particularly crazy.

Anonymous 05/20/15 (Wed) 09:43:23 No.7177

>>4831

> Bosmer usurper named Haymon Camoran

>implying Bosmer

Lore nowhere states Camorans are bosmer. It's more likely they're Thalmor altmer from Alinor who united decentralized bosmer into a country and craved for even more power, hence the war.

Anonymous 05/20/15 (Wed) 09:45:12 No.7178

Also, this >>25

Anonymous 05/20/15 (Wed) 18:00:35 No.7185

>>7177

ESO has a Camoran and he's Bosmer. And the King.

Anonymous 05/20/15 (Wed) 23:20:11 No.7188

>>7185

ESO can go to trash. Actually, him being Bosmer in ESO makes it opposite by default.

Anonymous 05/21/15 (Thu) 00:54:25 No.7189

>>4834

Doesn't sound very Lorkhanic to me. All that "return" stuff sounds a lot like the Thalmor, although it sounds more like he wants to become some kind of permanent fixture of the cosmos watching and influencing temporary or unstable lower levels of creation. Just the name, Mythic Dawn, is a reversal of the order of events of the current kalpa (or maybe all kalpas, not clear on how they work), which went Dawn Era -> Mythic Era. He also describes his place as something a lot more fixed and linear than what he watches change around him, which is also a reversal of the Dawn->Mythic order. Casting down Arkay isn't particularly Lorkhanic either, it sounds more like Mankar wants to create some kind of false change, change caught in statis, forever changing but never going anywhere.

Anonymous 05/21/15 (Thu) 04:04:13 No.7191

>>7189

>Doesn't sound very Lorkhanic to me

If you can't see the obvious references to the New-Man in those quotes than I don't know what to tell you.

Anonymous 05/21/15 (Thu) 14:02:51 No.7200

>>7191

He can reference Nu-Mantia all he likes, that doesn't mean he wants the same thing as Lorkhan or considers it to mean the same thing.

Anonymous 05/21/15 (Thu) 21:13:10 No.7205

>>7200

They both have literally the same end goal, the removal of all limitations on the world, and the creation of the new man.

Anonymous 05/22/15 (Fri) 09:24:51 No.7213

>>4834

No they aren't, they're Magnesian or Magnificant or whatever is Magnus' adjective. Note that he doesn't want to leave the Aurbis in any way shape or form which is Lorkhan's desire, nor does he wish to rule it like Akatosh did. He wants to build happy realms for Lord Dagon, like Magnus did for Lorkhan, he wants to be the next Magnus.

Anonymous 05/22/15 (Fri) 15:48:50 No.7222

>>7213

>Note that he doesn't want to leave the Aurbis in any way shape or form which is Lorkhan's desire

Nu-Mantia is literally the name of Lorkhan's endgame, the New Law. New-Mantia.

Haven't you read book 3?

>The Tower

>This is the third key of Nu-mantia and the secret of how mortals become makers, and makers back to mortals

>The Dragon's Blood have hidden ascension in six-thousands years of aetherial labyrinth, which is Arena

>By the Book, take this key and pierce the divine shell that encloses the mantle-takers! The skin of gold! SCARAB AE AURBEX!

>"Eat or bleed dry the gone-forlorn and gain that small will that led them to walk the path of Godhead at the first. Spit out or burn to the side that which made them delay. Know them as the Mnemoli."

>Reader, you will sense a shadow-choir soon. The room you are in right now will grow eyes and voices. The candle or spell-light you read this by will become gateways for the traitors I have mentioned. Scorn them and fear not. Call them names, call out their base natures. I, the Mankar of stars, am with you, and I come to take you to my Paradise where the Tower-traitors shall hang on glass wracks until they smile with the new revolution.

>That is your ward against the Mnemoli. They run blue, through noise, and shine only when the earth trembles with the eruption of the newly-mantled. Tell them "Go! GHARTOK AL MNEM! God is come! NUMI MORA! NUM DALAE MNEM!

>Understood laws of the arcanature will fall away like heat. "First Tower Dictate: render the mutant bound where he may do no more harm. As God of the Mundus, alike shall be his progeny, split from their divine sparks. We are Eight time eight Exarchs. Let the home of Padomay see us as sole exit."

>CHIM. Those who know it can reshape the land.

>He that enters Paradise enters his own Mother. AE ALMA RUMA! The Aurbis endeth in all ways.

>Endeth we seek through our Dawn, all endeth

TL:DR: Mankar wants people to ascend through the tower, tell the Mnemoli to fuck off, destroy Mundus and the Eight Aedra, Achieve CHIM, than destroy the Aurbis and enter Nu-Mantia.

Anonymous 05/30/15 (Sat) 07:52:53 No.7378

>>4792

Mankar was a fucking moron. not only did he incorrectly several realms of Oblivion with the wrong princes, and he even claimed that Nirn is a "Realm of Oblvivion". He considered "Paradise" to involve slavery.

Anonymous 05/30/15 (Sat) 15:48:06 No.7386

File: 1433000886049.jpg (44.93 KB, 805x638, 805:638, 1432638256406.jpg)

>>7378

>he incorrectly several realms of Oblivion with the wrong princes

That was either

1.) Bethesda's greatest lore-fuck up, ever.

2.) The worst writing Bethesda has achieved. Because, you know, a guy who knows how the fucking universe works, and has the know-how to make a Daedric realm, would definitely botch every single attempt to assign them to their correct world, because he's cwazy and looney and whacky!

>and he even claimed that Nirn is a "Realm of Oblvivion"

This is sort of a matter of interpretation. Nirn is pretty much just an Oblivion realm that is being blocked off from the rest of Oblivion by the Aedra. And he is pretty much dead-on correct about the Aedra. The main difference though, is that Nirn was actually created.

>He considered "Paradise" to involve slavery

The reason he tormented his followers in Gaiar Alata is this:

>Behold the Savage Garden, where my disciples are tempered for a higher destiny: to rule over Tamriel Reborn

>Answers are liberations, where the slaves of Malbioge that came to know Numantia cast down their jailer king, Maztiak, which the Xarxes Mysterium calls the Arkayn. Maztiak, whose carcass was dragged through the streets by his own bone-walkers and whose flesh was opened on rocks thereon and those angels who loved him no longer did drink from his honeyed ichors screaming "Let all know free will and do as they will!

He is purposely throwing his people into hell so that they may, one day, cast him down and know freedom.

It's all part of his master plan

Anonymous 05/30/15 (Sat) 20:41:57 No.7391

File: 1433018517429.jpg (99.94 KB, 1024x768, 4:3, Anteater.jpg)

>>4812

Great Observation, holy shit.

Anonymous 05/31/15 (Sun) 07:57:53 No.7399

>>7378

>Paradise" to involve slavery

There are interpretations of Christian heaven where upon death, you lose all free will and your soul becomes a bliss-ed out zombie who will spend the rest of eternity doing nothing but worshiping and singing praises to God.

Most paradise myths are actually pretty fucked up.