>Use Whirlwind Sprint to cross Whiterun faster>Danica greets me as "Child of Kynareth">The Neckbeards DID say mortals were given Shouting by Kynareth to aid them against shit like Dragons in the early times of the world and they live on the mountain to

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Anonymous 01/26/15 (Mon) 21:47:30 No.4902

>Use Whirlwind Sprint to cross Whiterun faster
>Danica greets me as "Child of Kynareth"
>The Neckbeards DID say mortals were given Shouting by Kynareth to aid them against shit like Dragons in the early times of the world and they live on the mountain to be closer to her

Now, I swear elsewhere I read that the Dragonborn was someone with Akatosh's blood. And iirc Akatosh is the celestial dragon anyhow, right? Or deity of dragons?

So did Kynareth give away another god's blood/power to mortals?

Or is Akatosh subordinate to Kynareth?

Or is shouting completely unrelated to Akatosh and just something dragons were innately good at?

Anonymous 01/27/15 (Tue) 00:17:29 No.4906

Being Dragonborn is a blessing from Akatosh and the dragons are considered sons (or possibly pieces of) of Akatosh

It is said that Kynareth first taught the Th'um to mortals, but (iirc) according to Paarthunux he was the one to first teach humans the dragon tongue. In any case, the th'um is often associated with Kyne/Kynareth (she being the god of air).

Anonymous 01/27/15 (Tue) 00:31:36 No.4907

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>>4906
I thought Paarthurnax first taught it to the enslaved mortals under the dragons, but that he was only able to do that because Kynareth had given mortals the ability to use it prior. Perhaps long prior.

In which case, where did Dragons get it?

It's supposed to be innate to them and core to their beings. Did they adopt it from Kynareth or did Kynareth share another god's tricks?

Or did the Thu'um naturally belong to Kynareth even if Akatosh imbued it to dragons innately because voices propagate through the air?

In which case, do all of the gods have cross-overs in their realms of influence because inhabitants of the physical realms occupy multiple spheres of divine influence at all times?

Anonymous 01/27/15 (Tue) 00:48:01 No.4908

>>4907
Well this is how I see it, all of the divines, including Akatosh, gave a large part of themselves (possibly killed themselves) to create mundus, so they are irrevocably tied to the tonal fabric of mundus. Now dragons are literally part of Akatosh, so that is why they posses a natural gift to influence tonal architecture (that is the th'um).

I'm not exactly sure how Nords were able to gain the ability to use the th'um (and influence tonal architecture), but you're probably right that it had to do with Kynareth.

Anonymous 01/27/15 (Tue) 16:22:54 No.4923

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>>4908
>implying that the Divines were involved in making Mundus and it wasn't all Lorkhan

He did all the work, they took the credit.

But to be on topic, I think the reason the Nords were able to harness the Thu'um is because as far as we know breathe and voice were key parts of their creation, Kyne (Nord version of Kynaret) breathed life into the first Nords at the Throat of the World so an ability such as Dragon Shouts came naturally to them, it's said that pretty much all nords have a capacity to do this, it just takes ages to train it unless you're Dragonborn.
So I guess in a sense it comes down to that they're naturals due to the way they were made, which is why Parthunax was able to pass on the teachings to the first Tongues

Anonymous 01/27/15 (Tue) 16:44:37 No.4924

>>4923
I thought the first Nords were Atmoran settlers.

Anonymous 01/27/15 (Tue) 17:22:53 No.4925

>>4924
That really depends on who you ask, with the bit with Kyne seeming to be more popular and lends more credence to them being able to dragon shout, and also their whole obsession over voice and breathe.
Still, two books say it was Kyne who made them, while one book the Annotated Anuad says it was Ehlnofey from Atmora, so until we get some harder evidence one way or another I'm just going the first one.

Anonymous 01/27/15 (Tue) 17:30:55 No.4926

>>4925
Thing is, the oldest Nord settlements are in the North of Skyrim, towards Atmora, instead of in the more fertile, temperate areas around the mountain. And then there was the whole elf problem, including the Snow Elves. How does the account of Nords sweeping across Skyrim from Saarthal like roaches, displacing a whole native population of Mer, make sense in the latter context.

The way I see it there are books, mythos and legends, and then there's physical ruins and historical accounts telling a different story. I'm inclined to believe the latter.

Anonymous 01/27/15 (Tue) 17:51:25 No.4927

>>4926
Well in that case I got nothing, unless perhaps the Ehlnofey that they descended from had special qualities then it's something else not necessarily hinted at as far as I know.

Anonymous 01/27/15 (Tue) 19:19:06 No.4930

>>4925
>>4926
Could have been Atmoran settlers who were then "adopted" by Kyne.
Which two books say Kyne made them?

Anonymous 01/27/15 (Tue) 19:31:44 No.4931

>>4930
>>4927
I figure Kyne also could've made them, they went to Atmora, got displaced by the Elves, then came BACK to Skyrim later.

Anonymous 01/27/15 (Tue) 19:33:50 No.4932

>>4926
Also the name "Skyrim" suggests it was given by atmorian sailors, as in "land at the rim of the sky".

Anonymous 01/27/15 (Tue) 20:33:40 No.4933

>>4930
I appear to be mistaken and gotten some books mixed up. It was Children of the Sky that said the sky exhaled and formed the first Nords on the Throat, no mention of Kyne but it can be safe to assume so, and it was Pocket Guide to the Empire that merely said they based The Way of the Voice on Kynes teachings and that they revered her, no mention of the creation myth there.

I think the closest we can get is somewhere between what you and >>4931
was saying, the Ehlnofey stayed behind to settle Mundus instead of following Magnus to fuck knows where, found Atmora, got diaspored by some dickbag elves, and made it back to Skyrim where they somehow gained the favor of Kyne\arath whose influence would eventually create the Nords we know and render them capable of learning the Thu'um from Paarthurnax

Anonymous 01/28/15 (Wed) 08:44:41 No.4938

>>4902
correct me if I'm wrong but I thought she always refers to you as "Child of Kynareth"

Before you even become Dragonborn.

Anonymous 01/28/15 (Wed) 11:14:09 No.4947

>>4938
Maybe she does that to all Nords? I don't remember her doing it to me before my current Nord character.

Still, same question: Greybeards claim mortals got the ability to use the Thu'um from Kyne. But inborn ability to use the Thu'um apparently comes from the blood of Akatosh.

Though, wouldn't that mean the Septims could all Shout?
And couldn't that one elf in oblivion shout fire and wear the amulet of kings, making him dragonborn as well?

Anonymous 01/28/15 (Wed) 12:02:25 No.4948

>>4947
Nords believe Kyne formed all men and she is the Widow of Shor. So Kyne is a special god for them.

Some who know of Paarthunax might think Kyne used him as her instrument.

As for Septims…technically they all can. You can learn to shout, but the innate ability to do so is only granted to a few throughout history. I assume dragon blood passed down doesn't automatically make you Dragonborn, but Akatosh used it as part of the pact for the Amulet of Kings.

Anonymous 01/28/15 (Wed) 20:50:27 No.4957

>>4947

Camoran was from the Camoran Dynasty, lore that goes back to Daggerfall. In his Commentaries, he says he can speak fire. He also wears the Amulet. A lot of what is done with him makes your absolute good position doubtful, you never really know if he's right.

Didn't put up much of a fight for someone supposed to be chimming around.

Anonymous 07/02/15 (Thu) 15:00:49 No.7705

>>4925

that kyne nonsense is a Nordic myth, supported by another myth that shouts are racially exclusive. anyone can learn the shouts. it's by no means exclusive to Nords, other than being native to their culture.

Anonymous 07/03/15 (Fri) 12:08:08 No.7719

>>7705

>that kyne nonsense is a Nordic myth

Myths are normally true.

>supported by another myth that shouts are racially exclusive

No one ever says the Thu'um is exclusive, Nords are just naturally more adept at it.

Anonymous 07/03/15 (Fri) 16:52:22 No.7720

>>7719

>Myths are normally true.

so everyone in the TES universe can just be trusted implicitly? i know people here are inclined to accept every shred of lore at face value, but where's the fun in just being fed facts? part of the fun, at least for me, is the uncertainty of historical accounts (especially word-of-mouth stuff the Nords are so fond of).

Anonymous 07/03/15 (Fri) 23:04:59 No.7735

>>7720

Obviously there are always going to be fallacies in passed down legends and folklore, and knowing what really happened during the Dawn Era is impossible. But, given the power mythic forces hold over the Dawn Era, it is likely that the Nord's myth is, in some way, true.