/tes/ - The Elder Scrolls Discussion

>>7963

To be fair every single relic or named item in Skyrim is useless and disappointing because of level scaling

And to a lesser degree, many of them not even having unique models

>>7969

>to be fair

That's only another reason why the artifacts are fucking awful, anon.

>>7969

Not really, you just have to be able to improve them. If you don't have smithing you're fucked

>>7969

>every single relic or named item in Skyrim is useless and disappointing because of level scaling

Yeah, which is pretty fucking lame. I can see making ones like the staff leveled since you'll get them in the course of a normal quest (don't love it but I understand it), but at the very least stuff you get way off the beaten path should be able to be non-leveled and fantastic.

Though I suppose there's not much off the beaten path in oblivion or skyrim.

>>7974

that's a shit defense. they should be awesome on their own.

>>7976

It's in line with the overall "no fun allowed" design of Skyrim. Can't kill whoever you want, can't fly, or run 100mph because magic sucks now, nerfed the fuck out of werewolves so you can't hulk-jump across mountains like in Bloodmoon, can't soul trap a god and use its soul to create a superweapon. They had a chance to make dragon shouts amazing, but most of them suck and the cooldown times are retarded. When did Bethesda start hating fun, and why? I miss the days of Morrowind.

>>7969

Wabbajack is alright, but it's pretty much a joke weapon, so it probably doesn't count.

>>7990

can we make

> i miss the days of morrowind

a banner

>>8011

This.

>>7990

>cooldown times

For fucking real. Even at their most pimped out, shouts are SHIT AWFUL and then they went and gave them a minute's worth of cooldown time. It's not as if Skyrim is more challenging as an end result, just let us fucking go ham with our superpower, considering the game is based around us having it.

>>7990

I know how they work:

Beth: Game marketed and optimized for casuals by default.

Us: This game sucks ass!

Beth: Expects older players to mod the game to meet their own standards then fail to provide the tools because "we ran outta time to program them."

Us: Release add on, fix, or patch?

Beth: Nah too busy on next project. Let the modders and hackers handle it for us.

Us: THIS GAME IS BUGGED LIKE HELL!

Beth: Sorry too busy working on next project. Get the unofficial patch whenever that comes out or patch it yourself. We gave you the tools to do so. USE THEM!

>>8013

Instead of a global cooldown timer, each shout should have had its own cooldown timer. Being the dragonborn might have actually been fun then, instead of a weak shit gimmick you get to use once per battle.

I have a feeling the people who make games never actually play them or even like them. It explains their complete lack of understanding what makes a game fun.

>>8013

It really is a shame, because some of the shouts are kind of fun, like the one that lets you summon a thunderstorm to attack your enemies, but it takes so goddamn long to use again that I hardly use it.

>>8027

Someone seems to have made exactly what I had in mind:

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/52648/?tab=1&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Fskyrim%2Fajax%2Fmoddescription%2F%3Fid%3D52648%26preview%3D&pUp=1

>>7976

> I can see making ones like the staff leveled since you'll get them in the course of a normal quest (don't love it but I understand it)

This is easily solved by making unique items actively level up with the player. Old ass RPGs like Baldur's Gate already had this (and many other problems with Skyrim) figured out, but le cutting edge ar-pee-gee guru Todd Howard didn't get the memo.

>>8068

of course they did, anon. it is such a logical idea to make…

Totally agree with this, all the reward items, unique artifacts, daedric artifacts are worse than stuff you can make yourself, and smithing and enchanting are so easy you will be making fully enchanted fully leveled equipment by about level ten

Something I think could have been an interesting idea is to have daedric weapons' enchantments not require soul gems to charge up, and simply always do that enchantment damage

It makes sense from the "these are super special magical artifacts that transcend the physics and laws of Tamriel" point of view, and it would make them instantly different to every other weapon in game

Whilst most of the rewards in Skyrim specifically were just enchanted swords or the odd collectable piece of apperal, there were a few good ones which made a noticable difference to gameplay if you used them.

Auriel's Bow

Azura's/Black Star

Mace of Molag Bal

Mehrunes' Razor

Wabbajack

Miraak's Sword

Aetherial Crown

Volendrung

Nightingale Armour

Deathbrand Armour (and its matching scimitars)

Archmage's Robes

Miraak's Robes

Ahzidal's Armour

Hircine's Ring

Obviously, smithing makes up for the level-scaling issue; as >>9619 said, artifacts would have been better had they leveled with you. Hopefully, TES:VI will correct this nonsense; i.e. BethGS wanting to dumb everything down - and judging by F4 with some of the bosses, equipment and environments, BethGS have added more bite (game) along with the bark (lore). Time will tell whether or not that's something they carry into the next TES game. I believe they will given the criticism they've recieved for F4.

>>9629

> noticeable difference to gameplay

I'm sorry what? Are you have a giggle m8?

> Auriel's Bow

Does less damage than bows you can make yourself, looks bland, but has a gimicky shoot-arrows-at-the-sun that is useless 99% of the time

Azura's/Black Star

> it's not really an innovation given it's been in every game so far, okay the black star is new, but I still don't see how this is game-changing, especially given the ease of finding black soul gems

> Mace of Molag Bal

How is this game-changing? It's a not very good mace with a fairly standard enchantment

> Mehrunes' Razor

Same enchantment it has always had, still preferable to just have a (better) standard dagger you've smith-ed and enchanted yourself for damage.

> Wabbajack

Same of gimmick it's always had, virtually useless in game, a bit of a laugh, but not game changing.

> Miraak's Sword

By the time you have this are you really going to keep playing, you'll have done everything. It doesn't do much damage but has a nice tentacle gimmick.

> Aetherial Crown

I'll agree, all the aetherium quest rewards are interesting

> Volendrung

How is this gamechanging? It's just a not-very-good and super heavy warhammer with a meh non-unique enchantment

> Nightingale Armour

Looks like ass, has pretty useless enchantments given how easy sneak is.

> Deathbrand Armour (and its matching scimitars)

Looks like ass, isn't a unique look anyway, the enchantments are okay, but you could still make better yourself.

> Archmage's Robes

Not gamechaning, just a better enchantment than on the normal robes.

> Miraak's Robes

You can make better enchantments than this yourself and it has a rubbish armor rating

> Ahzidal's Armour

Some nice gimick effects, but not useful in game, and not really game changning (walk on water is useless 99.9% of the time).

> Hircine's Ring

A must have for a werewolf spamming character, but still not really game changing given how long you can stay a werewolf anyway and the fact you can just wait a day.

>>7965

>not putting it on when you're shopping to get better prices

>>7990

The only two shouts worth using are the sprint one (mostly for getting to a shop faster while overencumbered as fuck and trying to trade) and the trailer-advertised fus-roh-dah for the fun of making people fly off mountains.

>>9629

>Fallout 4

>an improvement in any way

It was an improvement on being a shooter which is something Fallout 3 and New Vegas were piss-poor at, but it's not even an RPG. It's an open world shooter with RPG-lite elements much like modern Far Cry.

>Timed artifacts in the earlier games.

It's almost always better to just enchant a daedric yourself.

>>9630

I meant "affect gameplay" as in "make the game easier." The only interesting artefact in the entirety of Skyrim is the Aetherial Crown. Everything else is a gimmick, really; you can create better stuff as you say.

>>10471

anyone else not play Fallout 4? it's the first Bethesda game I don't even have a passing interest in. but I hear it was getting its ass kicked in reviews and it's nowhere near as successful as they expected, so I'm hoping they'll learn a lesson about whoring themselves out to casuals so much.

>>10471

Level scaling in RPGs is stupid in general. What's the point of leveling if both you and enemies keep scaling equally?

I think TES VI should actually have areas of different levels like any sensible RPG. Maybe with some scaling within those zones, like a zone where enemies will be level 20-30 instead of just 25.

>>9727

>>9630

>using all 3 crafting skills with literally every character

Sure must be fun.

I do hope crafting skills won't be loopable anymore in TES VI, and you can actually get enchanters and smiths to smith or enchant your stuff, for steep prices ofcourse, and with limits.

>>10474

>What's the point of leveling if both you and enemies keep scaling equally?

the point is saving money by reusing enemies the whole game, and also that people are entitled bitches and get asshurt if they're too weak to play a certain part of the game.

>>10474

I don't do crafting with every character, just so you know. For instance, I'm playing a Nord right now who smiths her own gear, but doesn't use alchemy or enchanting, which means she doesn't get any cool effects like paralyse or frost damage, only raw power.

The point, really, is that the player shouldn't have to restrict themselves based upon their own whim. The game should accommodate certain archetypes which close some doors and open others. The "do everything in one playthrough" nonsense Bethesda have peddled since Skyrim is a serious problem which isn't doing their games any favours for anyone over the age of twelve.

>>10482

this tbh

You can know jackshit about magic and become archmage of the college.

>>10474

Skyrim could have had scaling zones. It would have made so much sense. Whiterun, Eastmarch and Hjaalmarch should have been the easy zone, since they are legion and stormcloak zones, so they are safer. Then there are the Pale, the Reach and the Rift. The most dangerous should have been Falkreath, Winterhold and Hjaalmarch.

The game looks like it was design to have scaling zones. You hear that Falkreath and Hjaalmarch are dangerous. You hear that the Reach is dangerous but that the big factions are fighting the natives too. Yet BGS failed to complete the design they set up. Perhaps they didn't realize what they were setting up. Perhaps they trashed the idea for god knows what reason. This is why I hate them. You see they were about to set up something good, and that they decided not to.

>>10501

I'd swap Falkreath and the Reach but I agree with the rest.

I assume the first Hjaalmarch is supposed to be Haafingar.

>>10482

>>10487

I personally feel you should be able to learn/do everything in one playthrough if you put the time into the game. You might need to level up to a godawful level to get the skill points/mastery to do other things, but you should be able to.

low to mid levels focus on fighting to get all/most of the fighting stuff out of the way, then mid to upper to get through sneaking and take care of the theif and assassin quest lines, finally finishing up with magic to get each of those quest lines out of the way as you master the different types of magic, which should have bonuses and penalties depending on your level in each specific one. Finish up with quests that are only unlocked after completing a quest showing mastery in each of the 3 arch types and supporting skills where your alternate abilities are locked for certain portions. (i.e. in the magic mastery portion your sneak and fighting trees are considered level 1. in the smithing or enchanting area where you have to make say, a specific armour for a model that will open the door afterwards, you can't use magic/enchantments to artifically enhance your ability.)

>>10507

No, please no. The ability to play as a jack-of-all-trades is one of Skyrim's worst aspects.

>>10508

>The ability to play as a jack-of-all-trades is one of Skyrim's worst aspects.

disagree strongly.

Skyrim "classes" are so shallow and bland that they just don't hold up by themselves. Skyrim doesn't have deep dialogue, or engaging characters, or intricate plots; none of that good stuff that other RPG's use to distract you from boring gameplay.

The ability to use a wide array of skills is the only thing that relieves the monotony of this game.

>>10501

skyrim already had scaling zones.

try running out to the reach at level 1, you'll get your ass sacked by forsworn.

Fallout 4 also had this to great effect, the farther south you went the harder the enemies got. Most of them did scale with you but you could run into ass devouring super mutants at level 5 that would turn your vault tec approved boy pussy into a bowl of mint flavored clam chowder with a flick of their wrist. It wasn't until I reached level 10 or so that super mutants stopped being hard to kill but that was probably more of the awful leveling systems fault than anything.

>>10511

Forsworn are just slighty stronger bandits. Maybe I do need to be level 7+ to handle them while I can clear bandit camps at level 1, it's not much of a difference.

>>10508

Yeah, normies didn't like it too. I had to make up a weird ass story to justify why the dragonborn joins all those guilds. And the dragonborn HAVE to join all the guilds, because even when the game doesn't force you into one, you see power words kept away from you. So here I have a harbinger that leaves the companions because tempted by vampires, that has to work for the thieves' guild to pay for his magical education. The main quest really starts only after he conquers whiterun in a war he joined only because "peace is more profitable".

Lame, really fucking lame, especially because it's the only story that has some sort of sense. I didn't manage to justify why a harbringer would feel the need to leave the companions when he joins the dawnguard, or why he would need to become a thief to pay for the college. Or why the archmage or dragonborn would join the war only to be treated by tullius and ulfric like an unexperienced rookie. Or why a war veteran made thane in every fucking hold would start committing more or less petty crimes. The game allows all of that, but those are not coherent stories, the game would feel weird if you are not a fucking retard.

>>10508

Yeah, normies didn't like it too. I had to make up a weird ass story to justify why the dragonborn joins all those guilds. And the dragonborn HAVE to join all the guilds, because even when the game doesn't force you into one, you see power words kept away from you. So here I have a harbinger that leaves the companions because tempted by vampires, that has to work for the thieves' guild to pay for his magical education. The main quest really starts only after he conquers whiterun in a war he joined only because "peace is more profitable".

Lame, really fucking lame, especially because it's the only story that has some sort of sense. I didn't manage to justify why a harbringer would feel the need to leave the companions when he joins the dawnguard, or why he would need to become a thief to pay for the college. Or why the archmage or dragonborn would join the war only to be treated by tullius and ulfric like an unexperienced rookie. Or why a war veteran made thane in every hold would start committing petty crimes all around skyrim. The game allows all of that, but those are not coherent stories, the game would feel weird if you are not a fucking retard.

It has been days since page 1 refreshed. Thing are really bad for the little boards eh

The problem with the rewards in Skyrim is they worried about them being too gamebreaking for low leveled characters (since they decided around the time of Oblivion that the "If a quest is too tough, leave it and come back" system didn't cut it) so while they have decent enough abilities, they burn through charges way too fast and the magnitude on them is too low to be worth using anyway. Even at middling levels the staff of Magnus doesn't drain magicka at a high enough rate to outpace mp regen, so the only people it's even effective against are warriors

That's downright unacceptable.

>>10514

You make a good point.

I should go around bumping some old discussions, see if there's still something worth discussing.

>>10515

Bloody fucking hell, this.

Most unique items are completely weaksauce. Galdur Blackblade for example has leveled absorb health. If you actually manage to kill him at a low level (which is really hard and deserves a good reward) you'll get a 5 health absorb sword.

Fuck. Just make the boss tougher and make him drop a 25 health absorb sword at any level.

Good page for anyone who's curious: http://uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Artifacts

>>9630

>Volendrung

>How is this gamechanging? It's just a not-very-good and super heavy warhammer with a meh non-unique enchantment

At least it's fast as a greatsword.

>>10512

Nope. They are overpowered caveman. Seriously, how some starving reachman wearing furs and with bone weapons are in overall stronger than stormcloak and legion troops? That annoyed me with no end, One thing are those briarheart guys, which can have a passable reason for being overpowered, but the common grunt? No way.

>>10541

Skyrim melee weapons -

>CHIM-tier:

Stalhrim

Dragonbone

Unarmed

>By Shor that's mighty fine!:

Dwarven

Skyforge Steel

Dawnguard

>Would look good on a swordrack in Hjerim or Lakeview Manor:

Steel

Imperial

Ebony

>It'll do the job:

Glass

Elven

>Embarrassing:

Iron

Daedric

Summoned

>By the Nine what are you doing?:

Orcish

Forsworn

>>10542

I'd put Imperial lower but I agree with the rest.

>>10541

People always defend daedric weapons and armor with the argument that they're 'supposed' to be edgy. They can look hellish and evil, sure, but they don't have to be this edgy.

>>10540

Non-briarheart forsworn are only so much stronger than a bandit. I can start handling them on expert at around level 10.

>>10539

It does? That might make it significantly less shitty than I thought.

>>10542

The ebony mace, war axe, dagger, and warhammer look quite good in my opinion, but i hate the onehanded sword model so much. the hilt extends half way up the blade and looks heavy as fuck. at least the dadric weapons have a edge to go with all that edge

>>10544

>atleast the daedric weapons have an edge to go with all that edge

made me kek, thank you sera

>>10546

clearly you mean dragons penis because that is clearly a dragon bone scrotum with a ebony shaft head and penile spikes

>>10542

Reordered and complete:

>CHIM-tier

Dragonbone

Stalhrim

Unarmed

>By Shor that's mighty fine!

Dwarven

Silver

Nord Hero

Skyforge Steel

Dawnguard

>Would look good on a swordrack in Hjerim or Lakeview Manor

Ebony

Nordic Carved

Steel

>It'll do the job

Elven

Imperial

Glass

>Embarrassing

Iron

Ancient Nord

Daedric

Summoned

>By the Nine what are you doing?

Orcish

Falmer

Forsworn

>>10549

fucking perfect

>>10549

this is no a thread for the evaluation and judgment of Bethesda's choice of models. i suggest 3 categories realism/functionality, aesthetics, and how it fits into the lore/ setting. the gold standard against which it will be measured is of course morrowind, also known as the last elder scrolls game. Every one is welcome to participate. i will begin with the iron set including the long bow going, dagger, sword, axe, mace, then two handed weapons in the same order once again join in fags

>>10552

>>10553

>>10554

>>10555

make your own thread you fucking fetcher

>>10550

>bezerkers

it's a totally bullshit concept, though. a raging idiot in loincloths will get slaughtered by a disciplined, well-equipped soldier 8 times out of 10.

shit weapons + no armor + no discipline = you fukin' dead, boy

>>10560

BUHZURKAAAAAAA

…too bad they're not real. At least not in that capacity most people understand them to.

>>10557

He's right. Make separate threads for separate topics. This is a high-quality board and it should stay that way.

>>10562

yea i got bored anyway

>>10561

That was pretty cringey.

>>10557

Can't say I mind you doing this but I'd like it if you kept it to another thread.

>>10508

Skyrim guy isn't a jack of all trades, he's a master of all trades.

>>10579

No, he's a jack-off all trades.