/tes/ - The Elder Scrolls Discussion

>Right

I like the random encounters, in terms of ES games they did it pretty well

Daedric quests were alright too.

>Wrong

>Hey I know you're a thief c'mon join us

>DON'T go to that house unless you wanna join THAT PARTICULAR HOUSE OVER THERE, IN FRONT OF THE TWO PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT THE DARK BROTHERHOOD

It felt so fucking good when I managed to find the Morag Tong hideout, and you literally literally can't enter Winterhold without being told about DB.

>>8241

>music was alright

Music was glorious. Or at least some themes, like embed.

>dragon lore was awful

How come? Only downside I have is dragonborns making them their bitches.

Alduin Akatosh connection was cool imho. Also the Dragonborn DLC had good aspects to it (Herma Mora).

>>8246

>How come?

Because it is, as I said, shoehorned, and kind of lore breaking.

>inb4 all new lore is like that

No, only bad new lore is like that.

Here is how the Thu'um was originally supposed to be.

>Nords consider themselves to be the children of the sky, and the breath and the voice of a Nord is his vital essence.

>the vital power of a Nord can be articulated into a Thu'um, or shout

>A strong Nord can instill bravery in men with his battle-cry, or stop a charging warrior with a roar.

>The most powerful Nords cannot speak without causing destruction

Literally hardy vikingmen battle-crying/singing you to death. Now it is apparently just saying three magic abracadabra words correctly.

They kept the can't speak without causing destruction thing, but it makes no sense now since the greybeards could –I don't know– just speak a normal language. Not to mention that the three words makes no sense and seems to completely trivialize the Dragon language. Why do only some words have magic? Why do only some words work together? Why can you only use three fucking words at a time? How was Dragonrend even created if it utilized words Dragons couldn't comprehend?

It should also be mentioned that the lore was changed from all legendary nords, like Ysgramor, being able to use the Thu'um, to Nords not using the Thu'um until a Dragon taught three people that nobody seems to remember.

They seemed to have to use a Dragon Break (or whatever the fuck) in order to explain why nobody fucking remembers why there was a goddamn war between people and DRAGONS, and that these Dragons used to rule people.

>Alduin Akatosh connection was cool imho

Alduin always had a connection to Akatosh, he was supposed to be the Nords true interpretation of Akatosh. But Bethesda shit the bed with this and now apparently Akatosh was recognized by the Nords all along and alduin was just "his evul son >:)", which we are now forced to reinterpret and re-explain because of how overwhelmingly retarded of a conclusion that is.

And now we have to play around with all this retroactive time bullshit because Akatosh wasn't supposed to be an actual worshiped deity until Alessia made him (Bethesda couldn't have just called him Aka-Tusk or the All-Maker, which would have at least made a little sense).

Alduin himself was retconned from apocalyptic world swallowing god to big black dragon who oppresses the poor people.

I could go on but I'd rather not.

Guild questlines in Skyrim were so fucking awful compared to Oblivion and Morrowind.

>>8239

>Massive improvements to animation, making the game feel much more fluid and natural. Oblivion (and Morrowind to a lesser degree) is unplayable in comparison without animation mods.

Also less of the uncanny valley shit that made Oblivion unbearable. As much as /v/ loves to bitch about Skyrim's animations, they're a vast improvement over the automatons of Oblivion

>>8248

>Alduin always had a connection to Akatosh, he was supposed to be the Nords true interpretation of Akatosh. But Bethesda shit the bed with this and now apparently Akatosh was recognized by the Nords all along and alduin was just "his evul son >:)", which we are now forced to reinterpret and re-explain because of how overwhelmingly retarded of a conclusion that is.

He is not "an evil son." All Dovah souls are lesser refractions of Akatosh's being, which develop their own divergent characters over time, particularly as mortals write new lore, and their perceptions of the gods actually create and empower distinct forms of the gods.

So Alduin actually is Akatosh, just as Paarthurnax and even Miraak are Akatosh. Yet none of them are the complete Akatosh, much less the highest form of Akatosh (the god)

>>8248

Though I will hand it to you, the Thu'um being Dragon language is indeed a blatant retcon, but it doesn't necessarily contradict old lore as much as it expands old lore in a different direction.

Also, mind you, in game sources are subject to the bias of the in-universe authors writing them down. That's how we get wacky shit like Akaviri being snake people (who somehow managed to interbreed with Imperials, which is clearly rubbish).

So it's not unreasonable to speculate in game descriptions of the Thu'um from the old lore are actually inaccurate.

>They seemed to have to use a Dragon Break (or whatever the fuck) in order to explain why nobody fucking remembers why there was a goddamn war between people and DRAGONS, and that these Dragons used to rule people.

No they didn't. The legend is just largely forgotten due to being old. But well educated scholars like Farengar are knowledgable of it.

>And now we have to play around with all this retroactive time bullshit because Akatosh wasn't supposed to be an actual worshiped deity until Alessia made him (Bethesda couldn't have just called him Aka-Tusk or the All-Maker, which would have at least made a little sense).

See my previous post about mortal worship and perceptions shaping God's forms. Akatosh predated Alessia, but in the ealry days would have existed more in the form of Auri-El

>>8272

>He is not "an evil son." All Dovah souls are lesser refractions of Akatosh's being, which develop their own divergent characters over time, particularly as mortals write new lore, and their perceptions of the gods actually create and empower distinct forms of the gods.

I do hope you understood what I meant by

>we are now forced to reinterpret and re-explain

It is quite blatantly stated in-game that Alduin is the first born son of Akatosh. We literally had to re-imagine what this meant in a way that actually made sense.

These aren't supposed to be considered part of Akatosh unless you are interpreting Akatosh in a manner equivalent to Satakal, The One, or the All-Maker, which is an inherent Alessian belief that would get you burned at the stake during Wulfharth's reign. Alduin is supposed to be Nordic-Akatosh just as much as Auriel is Elven-Akatoh.

>>8273

>but it doesn't necessarily contradict old lore as much as it expands old lore in a different direction

It does contradict old lore, you yourself said it was a retcon. We now have to change how we're supposed interpret old lore into a version that makes less sense than the original.

>Also, mind you, in game sources are subject to the bias of the in-universe authors writing them down

I see this explanation thrown around entirely too often and for reasons it shouldn't be applied to.

Read this http://www.imperial-library.info/content/evening-star-3e-432

and tell me the thu'um was just misinterpreted and isn't supposed to be resonated singing/shouting.

>That's how we get wacky shit like Akaviri being snake people (who somehow managed to interbreed with Imperials, which is clearly rubbish)

The Tsaesci are indeed snake people, they take the form of humans by eating them.

>No they didn't. The legend is just largely forgotten due to being old. But well educated scholars like Farengar are knowledgable of it.

Nords some how remember fighting the falmer, but not slightly more recently having a mythical war with Dragons and a literal God? You want me to just be content with the idea that Nordic skalds wouldn't sing songs about the Dragon War for eternity, that they would just forget this event ever happened?

>See my previous post about mortal worship and perceptions shaping God's forms. Akatosh predated Alessia, but in the ealry days would have existed more in the form of Auri-El

Akatosh wasn't worshiped until Alessia's time. The idea of Nords recognizing Imperial gods before they were even conceived is what I call "retroactive time bullshit".

>Right

Was the 5th ES game

>Wrong

Was nothing like an ES game

>>2137

Did right

>the music

Did wrong

>got rid of Oblivion's Lockpicking UI

Damn it Bethesda you fetchers

>Right

>characters aren't potato heads anymore

>Wrong

>every single thing done in an attempt to make the game more appealing and "accessible" to people who don't play RPGs

>>8239

>right

It supplies a nice soundtrack for Morrowind.

>wrong

All the voice actors sound fake as fuck.

As if they got some bum from the street and told him to talk like a viking. The guards sound like teenagers trying to be tough or something.

Or maybe the vas were really constipated at that point.

The other guard va thought he'd sound more Nordish by talking like Scharzenegger.

I prefer Morrowind's dialogue system. I don't need stuff read to me like a fucking toddler.

>>8290

>the guards sound like teenagers trying to be tough

It's so sad that I knew exactly what guard VA you were talking about.

Seriously though, why would they even make a game where dialogue is read if they can't afford more than 5 voices per race?

>Right

The political, cultural, more mundane aspects of the world building.

I liked the civil war, the Empire vs Stormcloaks stuff (I think it's a good sign that people still argue vociferously about it), even racism etc. The mundane things are generally pretty good, even if they can be unconsidered in some areas and not given enough attention for others.

>Wrong

Basically the whole Main Quest line and most of the Lore invented for that, including the retcons about the Dragons, Dragon War, Dragon Cult, Blades = Dragon Slayers, Dragon Dragons etc.

Whoa, people noticing Skyrim has both good parts? People who are not Morrowind circlejerkers or bethdrones? Count me in.

>Right

Factions were actually good for the services they provided (mostly college of winterhold) but questlines are weak.

Soundtrack 3x as long as oblivion or morrowind.

God-tier DLCs, especially dragonborn.

Game has actually good quests, but on the flip side almost all are forced on you.

Random encounters.

>Wrong

Most of the stuff everyone always mentions. Destruction magic is shit, guild questlines are weak, most quests are forced upon you, irregardless of your character's morality and a million other things.

Does anyone else just like Skyrim for what it is? Without denying its flaws or wanking over Morrowind?

>>8322

*both good and bad

>>8322

I still play vanilla Skyrim on my PS3 (DLCs included, of course) which I have 99% completed (save earning all the Vampire Lord perks). I own the 5th Anniversary addition of Oblivion, but I find it extremely difficult to enjoy. The simple technical side of Skyrim is its strength (decent design/graphics, decent animation, et cetera) which is what Oblivion lacks. As well as having awful NPC interaction, Oblivion has - compared to Skyrim - a horribly empty map; exploration is boring and uneventful. The main storyline in Skyrim, silly as it might be regard lore, flows much better than Oblivions, too.

Skyrim's longevity in my case comes from trying different builds and role-playing pretty seriously. For instance, my most recent character is a Bosmer female who relies on, in order of importance, Speech, Illusion and Alchemy. For dealing with boss situations in dungeons (and role-playing reasons), she is a werewolf. Spending time with the Companions, however, forced her to adopt combat to an extent. She is also somewhat skilled with dual-wielding one-handed weapons and light armour; but respectively, only uses silver swords and Thieves Guild Armour (but later the Blackguard Armour). Still, most of the time she relies, in combat, on Illusion magic and a well-equipped follower (Ingjard from the Dawnguard, currently).

This is just my latest play-through; I must be several thousand hours in at this point. So, obviously, I know all the glitches, the game's flaws, the bugs, et cetera. I still love the game, though, and can confidently say that overall, Skyrim is a very good instalment. Far better than Oblivion. I have played Morrowind, and if I end up with a better PC I'll dig into that in the future.

>>8324

Moreover, Skyrim's biggest flaw, in my opinion, is the lack of depth regarding a striking number of individual story-lines and what you see before you in-game. A lack of polish of astronomical proportions. Just to list a few:

>When you arrive in Riverwood with Hadvar, his uncle comments that he "looks like he lost an argument with a cave bear." Hadvar looks fine. Obviously, the devs (or whomever) wrote dialogue which didn't add-up with what happens in-game.

>When you return first enter the Riverwood Trader, Lucan comments, regarding his broken-into store: "Gods, what a mess!" The store isn't a mess at all.

>When you enter Dustman's Cairn with Farkas and the Silver Hand surrounds him when you're locked behind a cage, one of the Silver Hand comments "He wears that armour, he dies!" obviously referencing the Companion's unique apparel, the Wolf Armour. Farkas is wearing normal steel. (And why the fuck is Aela wearing Ancient Nord Armour?)

>The road which leads into High Rock, west of Solitude, stops in front of a cliff.

>Why is there still present in the game files dialogue for carriage drivers implying that the carriage rides where supposed to happen in real time? Why was this cut?

>Why were the sieges of the cities during the Civil War questline cut?

>Why was the quest in the College of Winterhold centered around the four missing students cut?

And the list goes on. There is, in Skyrim, a huge amount of unfinished and unpolished content. Things that are just straight-up unfinished, such as the Civil War questline, are so common in Skyrim, it makes you wonder how such a thing was overlooked during development. And that's just mistakes; bad decisions regarding the world and design are also plentiful:

>Many weapon designs are awfully unrealistic regarding proportions of the blade, hilt, grip, et cetera.

>Strange variety of equipment. Where is the chainmail, cloaks, spears, et cetera? Why does one loading screen show pauldron-less leather armour? Why is there pauldroned and pauldron-less variants of Ancient Falmer Armour, Bonemold Armour, Steel Armour, Iron Armour, and Elven Armour? Why is Orcish Armour good, but the weaponry shit? Why do the hide and leather armour sets require no metal to craft, but obviously include it in the models? Where are the Bonemold and Chitin weapons? Why are Daedric items craftable? Et fucking cetera.

>No actual puzzles in the entire game apart from that minor one at the start of the Aetherium Forge quest.

I want to see someone who worked on Skyrim answer these questions.

>>8325

But to actually try to speak well of Skyrim, I have to say that the overall feel of the game; the immersion factor; is good. Furthermore:

>Each hold is extraordinarily differentiated from oneanother.

>Alchemical ingredients and other crafting items added to immersion and realism.

>Animation (for the thousandth time) is a massive step-up from previous games.

>Dual-wielding magic and weapons is enjoyable.

>Architecture and world design are brilliant.

>Dragons, for all the lore-breaking, were designed well. They were actually interesting, instead of the generic flying flame-throwers they could have been.

>Where some characters were designed and/or voiced poorly (Farengar, Serana), others were done extremely well (Brynjolf, Ulfric, Gelebor, Isran, Neloth (especially), Arniel, Esbern, to name a few of my favourites).

>Random encounters can be a slightly monotonous once you remember the spawn points, but they overall made travelling by foot interesting and never the same experience twice.

>Micro-stories of individual dungeons (Forelhost, Alftand, White Ridge Barrow, et cetera) were almost all interesting.

>Most of the new books were well-written and interesting. The political works especially (Nords Arise!, The Bear of Markarth, Rising Theat, et cetera).

I could go on, but I won't. In any case, Skyrims says a lot about Bethesda as a developer; their strengths, their weaknesses, and so on. Hopefully TES:VI won't be a total casualization on par with TESO, where there isn't some arbitrary deadline set to cut things short and cause half the game, the would-be depth, to remain unsatisfactory.

>>8325

2True4U

I think that the 11/11/11 deadline really killed the game. Most people act like the devs are just shit but there is lots of half-assed stuff in Skyrim that would've been very neat.

But even the morrowind circlejerkers will accept skyrim by the time of TES VII :P

>Right

Magic was handled far better and the dual wielding system was nice. Much better than oblivion where it was just "keep hitting this button to do damage"

>Wrong

None of the characters were likable at all. I found it hard to give a shit about anyone or to get into the story.

>>8325

>a huge amount of unfinished and unpolished content.

>College of Winterhold

>Great Collapse, why?

>Eye of Magnus, what?

>>8338

>None of the characters were likable at all.

Some were likable.

I actually liked Max von Sydow's character, up until that Parthunaax quest.

Mjoll was cute.

Tolfdir was nice.

Were characters in past games so exceptionally more likable than anyone in Skyrim?

>right

Good character skeletons so you could get sum nice waifus :∆}

>wrong

Everyone is ugly as shit by default.

>Right

That first half hour of the game or so feels quite polished.

>Wrong

The cities weren't cities. Whiterun was alright but Markarth doesn't feel quite done and Dawnstar was a motherfucking village and a puddle.

>>8314

Remember when before Skyrim the Blades were agents tasked by the emperor to find pieces of Numidium and over time they became an empire-wide intelligence gathering service?

And then that bitch Delphine wanders in all "hurdur nope blades always existed to hunt dragons hurdur"

>Right

- Overall, the scenery and the lighting are pretty fucking awesome. They really put a lot of effort into making the environment beautiful. Huge improvement over past tes-games.

- Improved animations

- Combat improved

- Added smithing

>Wrong

- Lack of emphasis on quests. Most of the questlines fall short, though planned to be a lot better.

- Homosexuality being accepted, doesn't seem to fit the theme, really. Also, every marriable candidate is bisexual.

- Deleted spellcrafting

- The ending of the main story is dissapointing, though the main story itself improved from Oblivion. (Not lore-wise, but quest-wise, e.g. more variation such as the Thalmor Embassy mission, Season Unending etc…)

There's more, but those are some points that come to mind.

>>8440

>Homosexuality being accepted, doesn't seem to fit the theme, really. Also, every marriable candidate is bisexual.

Its more than that. After Morrowind, the Elder Scrolls universe has been surprisingly asexual in character. No brothels or any hookers really, little romantic or sexual content, people barely even reference it barring a few NPC's and even then it stands out because of how rare it is. Looking at Helga, the only woman with a cunt in Skyrim.

Oblivion was like this too, and there was a "woe is me" type gay romance iirc.

What's happened? Seems like the only sex or sex related content only ever appears in books, never in real gameplay. I understand Bethesda may be trying to relate to its core demographic but I've always found it takes away from the world. Yet another thing which exists in the Lore clear as laugh-sperm-whales and tongue-necklaces but is never present in game.

>>8441

What happened is they realised mentions of sex lead to questions of sexuality and then suddenly they're in a minefield of shit.

They can't do anything interesting or inspired by history or mythology relating to sex, because as soon as they do someone will be offended.

They'll offer the defense of "we're just trying to make a cool setting"

And the response will always be "if you make a fantasy setting that isn't what I think is correct, then you must agree with & support the incorrect things"

So sex and sexuality is going to be behind a Lore-wall (that means written by MK). This prevents the uppity plebs from being triggered and offers plausible deniability.

>>8446

Apparently Beth is making about every companion in Fallout 4 have a romance arc like Bioshit, so we might start seeing more sex and shit in their games.

Hopefully it isn't quite as cringy.

>right

draugr looked like a pretty cool variation of traditional undead races/characters

crafting was fun and simple

>wrong

draugr were in every fucking dungeon that isn't for bandits, and there's almost no variety between the draugr in terms of units

crafting lacked recipes. you get your iron/steel gear pretty fast. then suddenly you have to farm through 10-20 levels ingame before you reach a high enough skill to make better armour

>>8446

>They can't do anything interesting or inspired by history or mythology relating to sex, because as soon as they do someone will be offended

Or they could just not take any bullshit and create what they want to create. It's fucking ridiculous how many people and companies just let Thalmors shit all over them and their work.

What the fuck are they really going to do, cry about it? Call you a terrorist?

>inb4 Thalmor butthurt causes a legitimate threat to sales

>>8492

Building off this

>right

Draugr looked cool

>wrong

They went from TES deadites to generic zombies

>>8239

>right

atmosphere was nice

>wrong

the extremely developed, fleshed out political intrigue of the civil war and thalmor is basically a pointless side quest to a weak, uninteresting main quest.

Right

Gameplay was an improvement honestly, and the overall tone was closer to an ES game than Oblivion. It felt distinct enough. Didn't completely butcher the lore at the Altar of Molag Bal like ESO

Wrong

Still the presence of the King of Rape was felt in the retcons and lack of cool new lore. Speaking of, there was no rape nor bedwives which there should have been.

>>8528

There couldn't be any rape, Beth is trying to keep the Thalmor monkeys off their backs as much as possible.

It's why Fallout 4 doesn't have a sexual content warning by the ESRB.

>>8280

>>8280

>>8280

>>8280

This

you just used CHIM or something because i've never seen it explained better.

>One thing right and one thing wrong

Fuck that.

>Right.

-Magical, misty glades

-witches and warlocks performing necromantic rituals in magical, misty glades

-Giants

-Mammoths

-Sabre Cats

-The Vale

-Solitude's architecture

-Labryinthian

-DP masks

-Daedric Armor

-Dragonbone Armor and weapons

-Music

-Aela the Huntress

-Hermaeus Mora and Apocrypha

-Nightingales

-Dwemer desings

-Falmer

-Whalebone bridge

-Forsworn and hagravens

-Crossbows

-Butterfly in a Jar

-That natural bridge caused by a fallen pine that crosses a waterfall where there's a bandit waiting to ambush you

-Nord chicks

-Racism

-Orc Strongholds

-Bandit caves and mines

-Magick dual casting and dual wielding

-Alchemy and collecting ingredients is a fucking jooooy

>Wrong

-Questlines where too short and simplistic

-Towns and cities where very small and unappealling, the tiny misty glades are much more entretaining than the towns.

-Voice acting mostly a shit

-Serana

-Serana

-Serana, most of the times

-WHY DO MY DOGS DIE GO FUCK YOURSELF BETHESDA

-No Spears

-No spell crafting

-limited options in enchanting

-No Spears

-Not enough Daedra

-Not enough variety of undead creatures (floaty ghosts, wraiths, different equipment for draugr and skeletons, undead animals)

-Certain Items like Dragon priest masks are tied to specific quests that you may not want to go through for RP reasons

-Casualized gameplay

-Not enough customization regarding armors and equipment

-Underexploited Architectural resources (dawnstar should have used Whiterun's set, helgen should have used Solitude's as should have falkreath, etc.

-Not enough werebeasts in vanilla

-Not enough animals (big boars, cow varieties, sheep, pigs, etc)

-Not enough focus on underwater exploration and combat

-Dragons are too easy they should have a fighting mechanic.

-beast races dont get their own full-face helmets.

-Not enough puzzles in the ruins, they should have used actual puzzles

-Most characters have shallow personalities

>>8261

> they didn't want to hear hundreds or thousands of plebs and normalfags complain that their climb to High Hrothgar ends with them shot off the mountain or torn to shreds by the Greybeards just for them saying "WELCOME, DRAGONBORN."

They have shown them to recieve tribute, why not having them with servants doing the talking instead?

>>8340

>Were characters in past games so exceptionally more likable than anyone in Skyrim?

i dunno, how about try playing them, you muppet? fuckin skyrim babys, I swear.

>>8589

>Crossbows

Nah, they fucked up. Crossbows should've been a thing way before Dawnguard. All the stupid dwemer robots already use crossbows, you should be able to loot a nice dwemer-forged x-bow from any dwemer ruin. But nooo, they were saving it for their lame Van Helsing rip off.

>Hermaeus Mora and Apocrypha

An appalling waste of opportunity to introduce tons of new books to the game.

Me: "Wow, the endless library of the god of knowledge! I bet there is tons of new and interesting lore to read here!"

Todd: "SHUT UP FAGET. READING IS FOR NERDS, NOW GO KILL SOME SPOOKY TENTACLE MONSTERS."

>>9515

it's a shame about the books yes, but I was talking about the aesthetic desing and how Hermaeus remains like a creepy weirdo, the tentacle thing was pretty cool and his dumbass voice too.

The crossbows SHOULD have been vanilla but that's being nitpicky because at the end of the day you still get them.

>>8589

Agree with most of this. Hope Bethesda can take a clue or two and make TES VI better than Skyrim.

>>9520

>Hope Bethesda can take a clue or two and make TES VI better than Skyrim.

HAHAHAHAHAHAH

HA HA HA

>>9514

It's pretty obviously a rhetorical question you clown

>>9522

> Hope Bethesda can take a clue or two and make TES VI better than Skyrim

They CAN but they probably WONT

>>8248

> he was supposed to be the Nords true interpretation of Akatosh.

Akatosh is Ysmir. He's always been Ysmir. The Dragon of the North is the Pole Star of the North which is named by the sermons as the planet Akatosh, leaving aside how Pelinal who is Ysmir outright calls Akatosh his divine half in the eighth fragment of the Song. The Alduin/Akatosh is a piece of fluff representing the shoddy scholarship of Imperials like the Out of Atmora theory which Kuhlman had to come out and say was bogus to try to get people to stop parroting it.

>>8239

>Right

Almost acceptable visuals for the year of release for once after modding the fuck out of the UI and getting texture replacements

>Wrong

EVERYONE'S A FUCKING ESSENTIAL NPC

>>8272

>particularly as mortals write new lore, and their perceptions of the gods actually create and empower distinct forms of the gods.

So basically, meme magic

>>8282

>liking the Oblivion lockpicking

You mean the piece of shit that didn't control remotely intuitively on mouse and keyboard?

>>8291

>>8290

Better than hiring Patrick Stewart to record two lines, Sean Bean to read 30, then five nobodies to voice every single other character in the known universe.

>>8338

>magic was handled far better

>cutting most magic types out is an improvement

>removing the self-other-target types is an improvement

>making fire the worst of all destruction types is an improvement

>arbitrarily adding magicka damage to lightning is an improvement

>arbitrarily adding stamina damage and speed debuffs to frost is an improvement

>going backwards and requiring you to unequip a weapon to cast a spell is an improvement

>removing spellcrafting is an improvement

>REMOVING NIGHT EYE FROM EVERYTHING BUT KHAJIIT RACIAL BONUS IS AN IMPROVEMENT

>>8441

And yet there was nudity all over the place in Daggerfall. Morrowind and Oblivion seemed to try to go for a T rating so it makes more sense there. Was 2011 already at full-cuck socjus status? I would think Bethesda could have gotten away with it in 2011.

>>8492

>you get your iron/steel gear pretty fast. then suddenly you have to farm through 10-20 levels ingame before you reach a high enough skill to make better armour

There's also almost no reason to bother buying armor because you won't find anything remotely good or worthwhile. Hell, you almost don't find anything good in dungeon loot outside of the septims you can make off them unless you're somehow pissing around in leather or stolen elven armor at level 35 and find an ebony bow to replace the ancient nord bow you've been dumb enough to keep in your inventory.

>>9552

>Akatosh is Ysmir

That's a load of bullshit anon. Ysmir is the grey-grim giant immortal human hero spirit of the Nords. It passes and incarnates onto certain individuals, just like the same manner that the Hoonding does.

It's part of Lorkhan's doom, part of his soul wanders the world and pops up when needed variously as Ysmir, Pelinal, Hans, Arnand, etc. then leaves abruptly because he can't really stay long anywhere. Ysmir, being the hero of mankind is the Dragonborn god, Talos, who pops up to stop Alduin.

I'm not sure where you're getting this Sermons names the North-pole star Akatosh. The North constellation is stated of the warrior which, if you didn't realize, plays right into the idea of the northern spirit Ysmir being the warrior of the Talos Enantiomorph. Akatosh is part of the warrior constellation but this does not guarantee that Akatosh is automatically Ysmir.

>The Alduin/Akatosh is a piece of fluff representing the shoddy scholarship of Imperials like the Out of Atmora theory which Kuhlman had to come out and say was bogus to try to get people to stop parroting it

This was an invention of Skyrim. Alduin is supposed to be the Nordic interpretation of the Dragon-God. The Nords recognition of Akatosh was another blunder by Bethesda that Kirkbride had to come out and reinterpret.

Here is how the Nords are supposed to see it.

>The Nords are perplexed and disturbed by the Imperial Cult’s focus on the Dragon God – they regard this as a fundamental misunderstanding of the universe, and one likely to cause disaster in the end

>Any mention of Akatosh in a Nord’s presence is likely to bring a muttered invocation to Alduin to stay asleep in response

>>8440

>Homosexuality being accepted, doesn't seem to fit the theme, really.

Nah, like it or not it fits. First of all, it's a made up fantasy universe. The creators get to decide what is and isn't culturally acceptable. Second, the reason some people don't accept homosexuality in the real world is mainly because of abrahamic religions. The religions in TES are more like pagan religions if anything.

>Also, every marriable candidate is bisexual.

Agreed, it makes marriage feel tacked… well it is tacked on, but still.

>>9604

>is mainly because of abrahamic religions

people think the ancient Rome was gay as fuck (and it was), but even they had limits on what was considered "respectable". if you were a grown man and you took it in the ass, you were considered a bitch.

>>9604

Yeah, that's not why. Pretty much every human society regardless of religion has treated same-sex sexual activity with disdain, or at least not equal to opposite-gender activity. Its the norm. This new shit is, well, new. Don't want to get more into it because not /tes/.

However, you'll notice the TES universe is strangely devoid of sexuality, its just not really a subject that bethesda likes to explore. There's vague references to it in the books, and of course All-Father Kirkbride (swt) talks about it, but its mostly ignored. Nothing about the sexual intricacies of the noble class, the sexual degeneracy of the lower classes, no hookers or strippers, no rape (that one time with TS and Barenziah in that pre-morrowind book), nothing. Or really, barely anything, few things here and there. The Dibella Inn-keeper stands out because she's the only woman in skyrim who uses her cunt.

In fact, sex for procreation is only implied to be cannon. You'd be hard pressed to find a source that proves it is .

>>9642

>TES universe is strangely devoid of sexuality

I presume you're talking about Oblivion onwards. Because Arena had prostitutes lining the streets at night attempting to solicit the player. Daggerfall had explicit nudity in the player models and in the models of many NPC's including witches, nymphs, temple staff and Dibella, not to mention an intricate plot of sexual affairs and the book that you mentioned. Morrowind had a strip club and an entire questline with Ahnassi which went into moderate detail about her mating habits and allowed you to cohabit with her as her mate if successfully completed.

>>9604

>Second, the reason some people don't accept homosexuality in the real world is mainly because of abrahamic religions.

The product of an American education ladies and gentlemen, whose only knowledge of the non-Christian world is pre-Christian Rome and Greece.

Fucking pathetic.

I've not really been involved in this thread, or the ensuing "gays in tamriel" debate, but I think you guys are kind of missing the point here, apologies if I'm missing things by arriving late:

It's a role playing game, so if you're a gay and you want to marry someone of the same gender you should be able to. Nobody is making you marry someone of the same gender in the game, and there aren't any gay pride parades going through Anvil or Solitude etc. It's just let the player play the way they want to play. Not really sure how that is a bad thing, apart from people having a "you can't play it that way because I don't like it" mentality?

I also don't really subscribe to the "in the real world people don't like gays so they shouldn't in Tamriel either". At the end of the day it isn't the real world, yes certain cultural ideas, styles etc. are drawn from historical ones in our world, but that doesn't mean that all aspects of the culture should be. There are literally sentient beings in their world that have no gender, and inter-species relationships, so is it really so unreasonable to say they would not be much shocked or bothered by a couple of guys bumming one another behind closed doors?

I honestly think it's a bit sad that people are saying the game should have less freedom in this regard, when in every other regard we want more variety and freedom in the game play and choices.

>>9642

>>9643

Daggerfall and Morrowind was back when western society didn't lose it's fucking mind yet. we're currently undergoing some kind of a neo-puritan movement fueled by psychotic feminism, and corporations don't wanna touch sex with a 100ft pole.

>>9647

>t's a role playing game, so if you're a gay and you want to marry someone of the same gender you should be able to.

sorry but that's not how "role-playing" works. players can't dictate the rules of the setting. if you were playing a tabletop game with your friends, and you used a setting where dark elves don't exist, then you can't be a fucking dark elf.

role-playing doesn't mean "i can literally do whatever I want!", so just drop that nonsense.

>>9650

No, no I don't believe that to be correct. That sounds amazing to me as an uptight, over-zealous puritanical prude. Seems to me sex is everyone. Look at other companies, companies that are exploiting sexuality in different ways. Witcher incorporates it pretty well, probably the most organic attempt. The Fallout Obsidian made was also good about it, even handled homosexuality and the like well.

The first Dragon Age was good with it too, but of course the recent ones have been Thalmor bait through and through. Mass Effect is somewhere in between these two. And that's just to name a few. This is a Bethesda thing, at least like >>9643 points out, since the Xbox 360 generation (the beginning of the focus on consoles and casual audience) Strange, since normies usually like that stuff.

>>9651

What is your actual argument here?

Are you suggesting that they should remove options and diversity from the game purely because you don't like it?

Are you saying that an optional feature in a game that is in no way forced on you, and that you can ignore and it will have completely no impact or bearing on your game whatsoever should not be there because you think that people in this fantasy universe should be homophobic?

Personally I found the whole marriage thing painfully cringe-worthy and dumb so never bothered with it after trying it out of curiosity.

Generally speaking I just don't bother relationships or any of the other character personification-type (I can't think of the correct word) filler they put in the game, but equally I think it's fine that it's in the game so people that are into it can do it to their hearts content.

I don't see why you would argue that the game should be more restrictive, when really the freedom to "play your own way" is the big selling point of the games.

Sorry if I've missed the initial point of the argument here, as I said I've arrived a bit late.

>>9654

my argument is that your argument that is based off a misunderstanding of what a role-playing game is. if gay marriage in a game appeals to you fine; just don't say that a role-playing game entitles you to it. it doesn't.

>>9657

Nobody mentioned religion

>>9662

>>9663

I don't think anyone (and I am certainly not) is saying "it's a role playing game so you should be able to DO whatever you want", but the whole point of role-playing is that you are pretending to be that character, so if you like other men or khajiit or don't like anyone and just want to kill everyone in the entire region with your bare hands you should be able to pursue that / play the way you want to play.

If you have a game, but your character's morality or preferences or quest choices are not for the player to chose then it isn't really a role playing game. (this is one of the big annoying parts of ES5 - the fact it forces you to do certain quests etc. but I digress)

I agree that marriage was lazy and cringe-worthily implemented in ES5 (having all candidates be available to both male and female characters of any race was particularly dumb) but completely removing the possibility/option for the player to have their preferred type of relationship would serve no purpose other than to appease people that are homophobic.

>>9663

If I got the right impression, beth did the "uhhh, yeh you can marry anyone, now leave us alone"

So it's not Thalmor shit, but reluctant addition to shut up drama. Might as well not be canon or whatever.

>beth going Thalmor

That would be funny. Skyrim alone features glorification of genocide, genocide, its the Hlaalu-I mean elves fault. War, slaughter, woman killing. Kings, hierarchy, patriarchy, sex, racism and inequality.

Nords did an ethnic cleansing of Snow Elves.

Dwemer accidentally deevolved Snow Elves into animals.

High Elves petition for genocide against smelly human fucks.

Nordic traditionalists and Empire traditionalists slaughter each other.

You can kill almost every womyn in the game.

Wield Molag Bal's daedric mace of domination (read: rape).

No social justice here.

>>9667

>but the whole point of role-playing is that you are pretending to be that character, so if you like other men or khajiit or don't like anyone and just want to kill everyone in the entire region with your bare hands you should be able to pursue that / play the way you want to play.

once again you don't seem to understand your confusion on the subject of "role-playing".

you're not saying "i want to be this character", you're saying "the universe needs to accommodate my character". that's an important difference, and you're just not getting it.

nobody is saying you can't be a gay character in an RPG or whatever.

>>9671

But I wasn't saying "the universe needs to accommodate my character", that's just you misinterpreting what is being said because it's easier to argue against.

I'm saying it's fine that you can chose to pursue male or female or different race npc's as a spouse. I agree that the implementation was shoddy to say the least, but if you're going to have the game allow the player to have relationships then it's right that you should be able to chose who/what you want to be in a relationship with.

> nobody is saying you can't be a gay character in an RPG or whatever.

You might not have been, but people saying "it's bad that skyrim allowed same sex marriages is bad" is pretty much the same thing.

Or were you suggesting that npc's should come up to you and say thing's like "I can't believe the Thane of Whiterun smokes cock" - in which case that would be pretty funny, but they don't comment on your spouse at all anyway so it wouldn't really fit.

Generally speaking, I can't stress enough that the whole marriage thing was clearly a hastily implemented afterthought, there is so much wrong with it that complaining about something as minor as not being called a bender for marrying another dude or a furfag for marrying a khajiit is oddly specific

>>8359

> the rumors of a bunch of random hick Bretons determine what the Blades are

The only thing the Blades have ever been are the direct servants of the Emperor. In Arena, with Jagar Tharn in power, you would of course be fighting some to help out others, as he was disguised as the Emperor.

In Daggerfall, you work for Uriel Septim. You help the Blades.

In Morrowind, you work for Uriel Septim. You help the Blades.

In Oblivion, you work for Martin Septim. You help the Blades.

In Skyrim, you are the last Dragonborn. You get helped by the fucking Blades.

As a general rule, though, the Blades are always whatever they need to be to be the most helpful to the protagonist of the game they are currently in.

>>8589

> even racism

>>9667

>Second, the reason some people don't accept homosexuality in the real world is mainly because of abrahamic religions

>is mainly because of abrahamic religions

>abrahamic religions

>nobody mentioned religion

Nice try, schlmo.

>>9667

>muh homophobia

n'wah, nobody's afraid of the gays.

>>9676

> the rumors of a bunch of random hick Bretons determine what the Blades are

Given that this is pretty much the clearest description of the blades we see in Daggerfall, I think I can pretty safely assume this was Bethesda's original intention for the group. Especially given the fact that Brisienna is the sister to the Blades' leader, and the PC is never actually allowed to become a member of the Blades.

>In Arena, with Jagar Tharn in power, you would of course be fighting some to help out others, as he was disguised as the Emperor

The Blades are notably disconnected from the Empire in Arena.

>>9673

>But I wasn't saying "the universe needs to accommodate my character"

uh, yes you did:

>"it's a role playing game, so if you're a gay and you want to marry someone of the same gender you should be able to."

saying gay marriage needs to exist because your character is gay is almost literally "the universe needs to revolve around me". but I tire of this back-and-forth. believe whatever you want.

>>9684

I think I see the confusion now, sorry for not making my point clearly:

I completely agree that the implementation of same-gender relationships within the ES5 is bad, marriage in the game is just bad period.

I now see that your gripe isn't that you can play as a gay character, but that they have made Skyrim allow gay marriage, which you don't think is plausible.

There is already a precedent in the games for mixed race/species couples, the gay guy in Tribunal, the gay guy in the fighters guild in Oblivion etc. so saying that people in Tamriel are pretty open minded when it comes to that sort of thing is pretty reasonable.

Add into that the borderline sleazy Dibella stuff - "Open your heart to the noble secrets of art and love. Treasure the gifts of friendship. Seek joy and inspiration in the mysteries of love" and the fact the nine divines never make any commandments you could really link into same-sec marriage and it does seem to fit with the world of ES.

What I am saying if that if you are a little gay fellow, you should be able to play as a little gay fellow, and pursue other little gay fellows in the game. Yes, itt would be pretty funny to have NPC's make sly comments about their character being a bender, and have it so you can't officially marry someone of the same gender or a different race, but we can all agree that in the current environment there is no way they would get away with that!

I don't think that they should make the game have zero gay NPC's for you to pursue, but I agree that making literally every character in the game bi is stupid, but that''s clearly a lazy implementation thing rather than them saying everyone in the universe is bi - I can see why this falls into the "making the universe change to accommodate me" as obviously not everyone would be bi etc.

So yeah, I think we pretty much agree and I just missed what the initial point of the argument was…

Last point though - on the subject of "the universe needs to accommodate me" there is an element of hypocrisy here - you're kind of doing the same thing by saying "Skyrim shouldn't allow gay marriage".

>>9690

No. You're rationalizing what isn't there. Sodomite go away.

>>9679

I don't mind that /pol/ comes here but by the Eight PLEASE try and post actually meaningful things while you are here. These posts are pure autism.

>>9690

Don't listen to this giant fetcher >>9696

. There's no reason to assume homosexuality (or really, same sex acts) are frowned upon in all of Tamriel. You pointed out some good sources saying its canon, and there are more.

TIL has some good stuff by the devs, the kind of stuff that you *can* not consider cannon, but if you turn around and accept the other awesome stuff that they have written because its not about gays, then that's on you (being retarded).

We do know that Morrowind outlawed spear biting (sucking dick) but it seems like people still did it. Not that this is an exclusively homosexual thing but you get me. Don't know if its still illegal now that the Redoran are running the show. My guess would be that they would be to worried with economic circumstance to worry about such things, so even if the law is there its likely not enforced.

>>9642

>>9643

I'd just like to point out that sex mentioned by a few NPCs in Skyrim. One NPC tells you how she was raped by bandits. Also, you can fuck your wife/husband in Skyrim. It doesn't show anything, but you get an XP boost afterwards.

>>9644

What are you on about? Over half the world's population takes part in an abrahamic religion, and all three are very anti-homosexual. Modern non-abrahamic religions are either not against homosexuality, or aren't as against it as the abrahamic religions are.

>>9641

>>9642

There's a difference between accepting something (even with disdain), and out right going on a witch hunt against something. Sure, pre-Christian Romans may have seen homosexuality as unmanly and gay marriage unequal to straight marriage, but they weren't jailing and executing people over being homosexuals.

>>9703

>Quarter of the world population is Chinese.

>Another quarter is Hindian.

I don't know why you think Christianity invented monogamy but you are very much mistaken.

>>9698

>by the eight

Confirmed Thalmor scum, post discarded.

>hurr durr i disagree with you so your posts are autism because reasons

Tumblrfag too.

>>9699

>Don't know if its still illegal now that the Redoran

Found the tumblr. Yes, redoran maybe care about modern western european concept of social justice, good one.

>people not understanding the concept of fantasy universes

There's nothing wrong with gay marriage in Skyrim. The moment there's gay parades, transsexuals and quests where you have to kill homophobics in name of social justice is when shit goes wrong.

If you fetchers can't go to /pol/ atleast make your own thread where you can discuss whether redguards, dunmer or khajiit are supposed to represent real life black people.

>>9733

>>>/tumblr/

>>9676

>> the rumors of a bunch of random hick Bretons determine what the Blades are

What if Delphine is just a hick Breton?

>>9807

> ignore them

Exactly - like cliff racers,

>>9806

not sure what point you're trying to make here, responding at face value, no she's a nord, and responding in a more general sense, you can infer from the fact she has the gear, training etc. that she was a genuine blade member

>>9649

>Baron.

>Genetic dead end.

lol

>>9808

Delphine is a breton though. She does act like a nord.

>>9829

What does that mean? Who does a Nord act like?

Like Ysolda or Temba, like Farengar, Balgruuf, Ulfric, or like Esbern?

>>9839

SHOR'S BONES, LAD! WHAT DOES A NORD ACT LIKE? LIKE TALOS, YOU FILTHY MILKDRINKER! I BET YOU'RE AN IMPERIAL SNOWBACK AREN'T YOU? GO HOME TO YOUR FILTHY EMPIRE WITH YOUR ELF-PLEASING WAYS BEFORE A TRUE SON OF SKYRIM LIKE ULFRIC STORMCLOAK OR KODLACK WHITEMANE CATCHES WIND OF YOUR EVIL PRESENCE IN THESE FAIR HILLS; THESE GLORIOUS MOUNTAINS; THESE ENCHANTED FORESTS; THESE SECRET GLADES; THESE STRONG FORTRESSES; THESE PROUD, NOBLE NORD TOWNS AND VILLAGES. LEAVE NOW AND WE MIGHT SPARE YOUR MISERABLE LIFE!

ENLIST WITH THE STORMCLOAKS TODAY!

>>9839

Being a fucking prick.

>>9849

LIKE A WHAT? WHAT FILTHY IMPERIAL LANGUAGE IS THIS? I SUGGEST YOU GO BACK TO WHERE YOU CAME FROM, OUTSIDER. YOU TYPE AREN'T WELCOME HERE.

>>9853

>>9841

Haha holy Hlaalu dick, that was fucking funny. Some real fucking MK NORDS as opposed to what we've been getting. Thanks anon, I kek'd.

Right

>dwemer not-puzzle cubes

>Heimskr

>Heimskr's motherfucking dialogue

>Jorvaskrr made from one of the ships original 500 came to Skyrim

>Arniel's endeavor

>hagravens

>Blackreach

>the tree over waterfall with a bandit chilling that you can fus ro dah

>daedric quests

>Vaermina's sexy voice

>Apocrypha

>mantlings of an uncaring godhead

>Forgotten Vale

>Soul Cairn

>Jiub

>visiting motherfucking Sovngarde

>Unofficial Skyrim Patch

>that quest where you attract moths to read an elder scroll

>dwemer ruins assets

>civil war lore

>Neloth

>Trainwiz mods

Bad

>watered down magic

>watered down acrobathics/athletics

>watered down dialogue

>watered down rpg elements

>level scaling

>fanbase

>>9878

Neloth is fucking based man

>>9878

You can go hang yourself, retard.

Imagine if you were blown the fuck out for being a retard so hard, the only way to keep yourself calm was to shitpost samefag on an anonymous imageboard?

>>9895

Imagine if you were blown the fuck out for being a retard so hard, the only way to keep yourself calm was to samefag on an anonymous imageboard?*

>>9906

>>9900

>>9897

>>9896

>>9895

>>9894

>>9888

>>9882

>>9881

>>9880

>>9878

let it die now