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/tes/ - The Elder Scrolls Discussion

Lengthy, in depth discussions and arguments on The Elder Scrolls video games, texts and lore. Related art, character and tabletop threads are also encouraged.

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Seen any elves? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

File: 1448501021156.jpg (164.56 KB, 894x894, 1:1, TEST.jpg)

 No.9675

We've had a number of customizable protagonists in the Elder Scrolls series. Discounting the mobile games for a moment, we have:

> The Eternal Champion

> The Agent

> The Apprentice

> The Nerevarine

> The Hero of Kvatch

> The Last Dragonborn

Six heroes, each with their own accomplished feats, unique sets of skills, differing spells, and magical potential. But who is really the most powerful?

More appropriately, who is :

> The most magically powerful?

> The most physically powerful?

> The most power at the start of their adventure?

> The most power at the end of their adventure?

> The most likely to win in a fight?

> The most likely to win in a massive free-for-all?

> The most likely to get all of the bitches?

One rule: Don't fucking mention any Alchemy, Enchanting, or Smithing bullshit. No custom items or spells, because that just takes us on undesirable tangents.

 No.9683

Has to be the Dovahkiin. Specifically because of how powerful the Thu'um is; shouts like Ethereal Form, Call Dragon and Dragon Aspect, just to name a few, give the Dovahkiin a significant edge against pretty much anything. Then, it's worth considering how stupidly powerful he/she becomes during their time in Apocrypha. The ability to instantly replenish all health/stamina/magicka; more powerful shouts like Bend Will, etc. Throw in the abilities granted by the Standing Stones dotted around Solstheim, gear like the Aetherial Crown, up to two Doom Stones in Skyrim, the powers of lycanthropy or vampirism, the abilities of a Nightingale, and so on. And we haven't even began to go into weaponry.

One of the most powerful (at least metaphysically) artefacts in Tamriel, Keening, finds it's way to the Dovahkiin. As does the Staff of Magnus, Auriel's Bow, Spell Breaker, Mehrunes' Razor, the Ogmah Infinium, Volundrung, the Ebony Blade, the Ebony Mail, the Mace of Molag Bal, Dragon Priest Masks, Miraak's equipment, etc. Of course other Heroes have access to a lot of this gear, but the gear coupled with the Dovahkiin's inate power makes probably the most powerful Hero so far.

If the Dovahkiin didn't end up doomed to an eternity in Apocrypha, they'd likely achieve CHIM and become Talos 2.0. Come to think of it, that's probably why.


 No.9685

>>9675

But dragon shouts are, for the most part, pathetic. At least the way they're portrayed in game. Almost all the offensive ones can be blocked with the weakest shield spell that any Apprentice can cast, after which you're stuck in cooldown. Call Dragon and Storm Call are useless indoors, Dragon Aspect is worthless against anyone who can use levitation (basic spell before Oblivion), and Ethereal form is only useful offensively in game because of shit AI.


 No.9686

>>9685

meant for >>9683


 No.9687

>>9683

Calling other dragons isn't too much of an advantage, considering that pretty much any of the heroes could do so just as easily; the only thing they can't do is put the dragon down permanently. Not that that matters, with Alduin MIA again.

Ethereal Form is an interesting one to bring up, because the Apprentice actually has access to that in spell form. Assuming that the mechanics are similar to D&D, in a fight against the Apprentice, the Last Dragonborn would actually have nowhere to escape.

The escape point is another thing: nearly every other Hero had access to the ability to teleport away and then come up with another strategy after the fact. Never underestimate that power.

If we're looking at Artifacts, then we have to consider some of the stupid powerful shit the others have:

The Apprentice is literally clad head to toe in Daedric defensive and offensive gear, including a Spear which can supposedly kill with a touch.

The Eternal Champion has the Staff of Chaos, which is quite literally the single most powerful artifact we've seen in all of the games. One blast is all it takes to annihilate the body of a foe or banish them to another plane of existence.

The Nerevarine has access to far more artifacts than the Last Dragonborn. The only disadvantage he has is not having the Oghma Infinium; something more than made up for by gear like the Wraithguard. Further, he has the advantage of Corprus, which makes him the physically most powerful of the group by a long stretch.

In terms of raw power, the Last Dragonborn could certainly acquire a lot of it quickly, simply by devouring dragons. But raw power isn't everything, as the Prophecies have consistently shown.

>>9685

That goes a little bit too far into gameplay rather than lore, though. Lorewise, shouts are incredibly powerful.

Though there certainly are some immediate details to notice. The most powerful thing the Dragonborn has is Bend Will, for instance, which is likely useless against the other Heroes. And he's still more a novice than anything else.


 No.9692

I think in order to answer this, you have to decide what is cannon for each game.

The simplest way to do this is to say the "real" character only completed the main quest-line, nothing more, and with this view I think the strongest would be either Dragonborn or Nerevarine. The other heroes don't have the same level of god-like powers (being immune to disease, sunder, keening and wraithguard / the thuum). Deciding which is stronger comes down to how powerful you think the thuum is, certainly in-game in ES5 it isn't that game-breakingly awesome, but in the lore and history it seems to be pretty much a free ticket to being a living god. Up against that you have a character that destoys a living God, and *possibly* gets God-like powers after destroying the heart of Lorkhan.

Tough call, but I'm going to go with the Dragonborn, you look at the other Dragonborn's from lore and one of them literally became one of the nine divines, and the other was *almost* powerful enough to break their service to Hermaeus Mora.


 No.9694

File: 1448551378801-0.png (352.62 KB, 747x807, 249:269, Dragonborn is Talos.png)

File: 1448551378801-1.png (23.67 KB, 1090x140, 109:14, bend will.png)

>>9675

The Dragonborn, without a doubt.


 No.9713

I won't argue on in-game abilities/spell lists, since while the protagonist of each game can become a ridiculously powerful mage in-game, they're still generally reliant on NPCs for any sort of magic that isn't related to combat or crafting. In the same vein, it's possible for (in Skyrim) for a total pleb to become archmage. Items are silly to argue too, since there are multiple examples of recurring artifacts - are we to assume there's actually a whole bunch of Masques of Clavicus Vile just lying around? Instead, I'll focus on the unique abilities of each protagonist in the two games I've played most: Morrowind and Skyrim, since they seem to be the general consensus. I'll say the battle takes place fairly soon after the events of Skyrim, in Skyrim itself, with no interference from allies.

The Thu'um is apparently something that can be taught with years upon years of meditation and study, albeit only to Nords, and not all of them are capable. I don't know if the Dragonborn is immortal (in so far as he'll never die of old age) without becoming a Vampire. That said, Shouts are ridiculously powerful in lore, having similar effects upon the universe as the Dwemer's tonal architecture and the Reguards' sword-singing. Even if it's not impressive in-game, shouts are still bullshit, allowing the Dragonborn to perform magical feats with almost no training - if they know a Word, all they have to do is Speak, and it comes true. That's part of why the Greybeards are supposed to be reclusive mutes, they're so powerful that "their whispers can kill a man". Presumably the Dragonborn can reach similar levels of bullshit in a fraction of the time - but the DB is still really just a complete pleb who simply hasn't had a chance to take the time they need to really master their powers.

The Nerevarine's Corprus situation, on the other hand, is unique to the Nerevarine; AFAIK, the Nerevarine is the only one to have the negative effects of Corprus completely removed - Yagrum Bagrum is alive and sane, but far from cured. This leaves the Nerevarine immortal and immune to disease. Skyrim takes place a little bit more than 200 years after Morrowind, if I remember correctly. If we assume the Nerevarine never dies from something ridiculous, but lives at least until encountering the Dragonborn after they finish their quests, then that's 200 years he has over the Dragonborn. That's a lot of time for the Nerevarine to grow and learn, especially since they're (presumably) off fucking around in a land the Dragonborn might not have even heard of, doing god knows what.

All in all, though, the biggest difference is in how their powers work. The Dragonborn's powers work on a metaphysical level, the Nerevarine's are far more concrete. Putting gameplay mechanics aside, it really comes down to how much power the Dragonborn can actually put behind their shouts, how much the DB is actually capable of influencing the meta surrounding the battle. If the shouts are just "cooldown instant-cast magic that doesn't cost Magicka", then the Nerevarine would probably wipe the floor with them. If the DB can pull CHIM level bullshittery just by talking loudly ala Tiber Septim, then the Nerevarine doesn't really have a way to counter that.


 No.9746

Some of you fetchers seem to be forgetting that the Champion of Cyrodiil has mantled both Pelinal Whitestrake, and a daedric prince. Do you really want to fuck with that?


 No.9749

I feel like > The most power at the start of their adventure? shouldn't even matter, as with the new pacing of games, you're dragonborn in your literal third quest, iirc. I wouldn't be surprised if tes6 started with "Wake up, Pelinalline!"


 No.9750

> The most power at the end of their adventure?

The Hero of Mycrotch. After all he became a Daedric Prince at the day.


 No.9751

>>9750

>became

I don't feel like that's right.

And at the end of the day, you shouldn't decide the winner based on their accomplishments:

>The guy in arena "killed" an invincible dude

>So did the guy in Daggerfall, sorta

>Nerevarine killed a dude with godlike powers

>The Oblivion dude defetead a Daedric prince and a whole cult

>Dragonborn defeated the Son of Akatosh or whatever and the first Dragonborn


 No.9820

Cyrus because he kills a dragon in like 2 hits with a steel saber.


 No.9821

>>9820

>kills a dragon

big fucking deal. villagers in skyrim bludgeon them to death with shovels like rats.


 No.9823

>>9821

gay-ass zombie dragons.

The one Cyrus kills was a real Imperial dragon.


 No.9838

Guys, it's not that hard, the strongest one is clearly [spoiler] Lydia [spoiler/]


 No.9861

Nerevarine because c0da.


 No.9865

>>9675

Clearly it is the Neravarine because he has corprus and has live for 200+ years which means he has at least 365*200=73000 Strength and Endurance plus wielding Kagrenac's Tools so he can tonally architect anyone's skull right out of existence.

That potion only removed the adverse effects of corprus. muscle growth should have stayed the same


 No.9866

Dragonborn because he's literally Talos by the end of the main game. With controll will shout Herma Mora gives him, he becomes the most powerful dragonborn to ever walk the earth, meaning he one up's Tiber Septim. His relation to CHIM is still unknown, but he is Lorkhan and will obviously reforge the empire. You can't beat that.


 No.9877

>>9865

YOU GOTTA GET CORPRUS TO GET BIG, C'MON! WHY AREN'T YOU DOING ANYTHING IT TAKES?


 No.9885

>>9866

>and will obviously reforge the empire

you mean conveniently disappear into obscurity like all the other player characters.


 No.9890

>>9885

>you mean conveniently disappear into obscurity like all the other player characters.

Daggerfall guy is fucking dead.

Cyrus had a dicking contest with Vivec on the moon.

Nerevarine disappeared into Akavir.

Champion of Cyrodiil became Sheogorath.

You don't get called Hjati in game and form an enantiomorph with Tulius and Ulfric, become arch-nemesis of the thalmor and get Bend WIll shout without reforging the empire.




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