/tes/ - The Elder Scrolls Discussion

they were all high level and the world didnt have level scaling yet

>>9714

I assume the 500 were joined by others once they made a beachead of sorts.

>>9714

Atmorans are pretty damn awesome.

But in all seriousness, it's probably a combination of several things;

> much like the "300" at the battle of Thermopylae, it's possible that the 500 referred to the "elite warriors", and that each of them would have had the equivalent of retainers, who would also have been fighting and supporting them, similar to how a medieval knight would have had an entourage supporting them

> the snow elves and the dwemer had all their hostility going on, so they probably were not that well equipped to deal with an unexpected threat, in any case the dwemer left

them to it, so it was only really the snow elves that got done in

> it's plausible that there could have been freak weather or something similar that gave a big advantage to them, say if it was a paticularly cold year, the atmorans would have been much better equipped to deal with that, and could have furthered this by destroying the elves food sources and so on, especially as only the elves would have been supporting cities as apposed to just a small army

> elves generally speaking tended to have lower populations, but live longer and breed slower, so they are not well equipped to deal with long or heavy wars of attrition, so a concerted set of attacks over a sustained period would really mess them up - they probably were not in great shape after the last fight with the atmoran settlers, and the ongoing stuff with the dwemer and this attack was just the one that finished them off

Also, slightly unrelated, but I'm sure I read somewhere a while ago that the ancient Nords and Atmorans were much larger than the modern humans, and were almost as big as the modern giants? I'm starting to this was just fanciful conjecture on someones' part, but certain points do sort of fit into this - nords are bigger than everyone else and would be closest to ancient atmorans, but still genetically "watered down", the wuutrad (ysgramor's weapon) is two handed but he also had a shield - does that mean he was big and strong enough to use a modern two handed weapon one handed and have a shield?

>>9721

well its fair to assume that they were giant since they were descendents from wanderers which were fuck huge according to legends. Also in one book it was writen that when he (forgot name) went to atmora it was frozen wasteland ruled by giant king.

Some better lorefag will fuck my shit up

>>9721

I don't think atmorans were as big as giants, but I do think that Ysgramor's statue as seen in his tomb is life-size. That guy had a big-ass shield and a big-ass axe.

>>9714

Because they were Dragons.

>Nordic legends

>not drunken rambles only loosely based on historical events

No you are not supposed to believe that. Nords have been repeatedly said to have no concept of a literary canon let alone sticking to the facts.

What had happened was Dragon Priest Ysgrammor flees north after angering the Falmer by committing some kind of blasphemy with the Eye of Magnus, grabs as many Thuum warriors as he could get to follow his banner and goes to have a big war with the Falmer that led them to conquer much of north and central Skyrim. The south and west seem to still be disputed territory centuries later in the early first era, so the elf massacres weren't as complete as the sagas claim.

>>9753

>Dragon Priest Ysgramor

Wait what?

>>9753

do you have any sources to back up any of this interest theory?

>>9721

further to this - my earlier post - i've done some general reading on the atmorans, and I came across an interesting quote in "Songs of the Return":

" One such crew was that of the Krilot Lok, sinewy long folk from the [eastern] edge of Atmora. Their ruddy skin matched the dawn and it was often said that morning herself learned [her glorious colors from] the first faces to meet her at the break of day. The great Kyne lifted their souls and their winds, propelling them westwards with the new lands of Tamriel ever beckoning to the south. "

The bit that jumps out is the "their ruddy skin matched the dawn" - i.e. the atmorans from the east had reddish skin colour.

Is it too big a leap to think that these eastern atmoran's would have looked a bit more like the redguards? Is it possible that eastern Atmora is part of Yokuda, or at least that the populations of east atmora had encountered Yokudans, and had begun to mix?

There's even another bit in there about "entire kingdoms of men" with "skin like overcooked meat" - this sounds an awful lot like how they might describe the darker skinned yokudans/redguards - were the atmorans in contact with the yokudans, and if so does this suggest that the two continents were a lot closer than we perhaps thought?

>>9765

Maybe redguards are descendants of the Atmorans who invaded Yokuda aswell while the actual native Yokudans were exterminated a la snow elves?

>>9765

>do you have any sources to back up any of this interest theory?

I'm not >>9753 but I know that what he said comes from one of Kurt Kuhlmann's in-character (Hasphat) posts made in reply to Kirkbride flat out stating Ysgramor was a Dragon.

>If Ysgramor was indeed a "dragon", most likely he was a Dragon Priest - in the Late Merethic Era, it would be unlikely for a leader of Ysgramor's reported stature to be unconnected to the Dragon Cult. But connecting the Nord hero Ysgramor with the now-reviled Dragon Cult is of course anathema to those who favor chauvinism over historical truth.

http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1357025-the-dragon-war-documented/#entry20460372

There were apparently 22 people on Jorrvaskr. Usually ships are rather cramped so they'd have to be pretty big people.

lol dude, it's elder scrolls. in game history is not even remotely reliable.

if you're going to wtf at something, wtf at something more wtf-worthy. like the cocaine-spewing skywhales.

>>9917

Good stuff man.

>>9714

Hernan Cortez with 400 dudes did the same

>>9714

>>10255

And he crushed the Aztec empire in its peak, often defeating armies of tens of thousands, each of his men ranking 90/100 kills per battle.

And that was in RL, imagine the thing in a fantasy setting

>>10256

Do you really know jackshit about history or are you joking?

>>10257

There was that one cavarly charge. I consider the outcome a miracle, really.

But Cortez could be a probable contester for the source inspiration. If so, I don't think that the Falmer (original mix) were a very .. cooperative bunch.

That, or the 500 were something very special, like >>9738 said.

However, UESP gives us an indication as to what they were: "Ysgramor, the "harbinger of us all" and the only real recognized leader of the Companions. Each new Harbinger is chosen by the last."

If the chain is unbroken, the first ones were werebeasts. Perhaps, given the age and nature of Tamriel, far stronger than their modern counterparts. Ancient werebeasts; titans and pagan gods in their own right.

>>10328

I just stumbled upon the fact that the ancient Nords worshiped animals. Bears, wolves, whales, snakes, moths… And Dragons.

>>10329

I thought each animal represented a God, but don't quote me on that.

I thought the whale was Shor, the fox Lorkhan, the snake Herma-Mora, the dragon alduin and the moth Dibella.

>>10333

>Whale=Tsun

>Bear=Stuhn

>Owl=Jhunal

>Wolf=Mara

>Hawk=Kyne

>Moth=Dibella

>Dragon=Alduin

>Fox=Orkey

>Serpent=Shor

Some people will tell you that the Orkey is the serpent.

Tell them to fuck off.

>>10343

>Implying Orkey isn't Lorkhan

Top kek

>>10343

What about that story in which the fox comes and eats the rabbit, saving Ysgramor from becoming a filthy Elf?

Conversely, there's that Tiber Septim statue… Talos kills the snake, he eats it to become it.

>>10344

Orkey is Malacath/Arkay

Shor is Lorkhan

>>10345

>What about that story in which the fox comes and eats the rabbit, saving Ysgramor from becoming a filthy Elf

I tend not to put much faith in ESO's lore, anon.

Lorkhan is as much a Serpent as Akatosh is a Dragon. Having Shor not be the Serpent is like having Alduin not be the Dragon.

A Serpent is symbolically vengeful, defensive, dualistic, cyclical, craving and deceitful.

A fox is sly. Why the fuck would Nords look up to a Fox as a great vengeful bloodthirsty god?

>>10348

This makes more sense. I did not recall that was non-canon ESO, could happen to any of us.

What about the snake in Redguard lore? It sounds like a combination of both the Rebel and the King to me.

>>9714

They weren't Nords, they were Atmorans and Atmorans are like the master race from which the Nords were diluted, like Tolkien elves getting tortured to degenerate into Orcs.

Each one of those 500 companions was a very, very powerful Tongue amongs their own people.

They were the tribal chieftains and retainers of an entire continent of magic barbarians- they were the ones strong enough to bash giants and other Voice-wielding Atmorans into submission.

A single boat load of like 15 or something burned and screamed their way through Black Marsh.

Their degenerated descendants were still powerful enough to sack Dwemer holds and force them into alliance with the Chimer.

These guys were the king n'wahs of everything.

>>9765

Assuming the Songs of the Return are true, Atmorans definitely encountered Yokudans, but their description of them is as if they are new and bizarre so Atmorans weren't living next to them.

Songs of the Return might be bullshit revisionism though, considering that the same game that introduced that book series introduced the Dragon War which figures that Atmorans never had the Thu'um and it was only Nords in Skyrim under subjugation of Dragons that got Thu'um.

But then again, Dragon War lore is shit.

>>9753

Dragon War lore is shit.

>>9784

Yes, Dragon War lore really is shit.

>>9917

Dragon War lore is shit.

>>10376

It's not that hard to ignore IMO. I think of it as a brief freak period if time rather than such a massive event.

>>10343

>Whale=Tsun

One cool thing I liked about Skyrim was how the bridge in Sovngarde was actually a whale's spine, and it was guarded by Tsun himself, I guess because 'his body shall be the bridge, and his soul shall be the gate' or some shit. I think it's Tsun's body.