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/tes/ - The Elder Scrolls Discussion

Lengthy, in depth discussions and arguments on The Elder Scrolls video games, texts and lore. Related art, character and tabletop threads are also encouraged.

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Seen any elves? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

File: 1449009403270.jpg (1.01 MB, 1920x1080, 16:9, wallpaper (994).jpg)

 No.9809

What's that one questline or objective you don't mind repeating? That one story or adventure you can go through multiple times without getting sick of?

The one for me has to be the College of Winterhold's questline in Skyrim. Even with all its flaws, I think the College was done really well and the story itself involving the Eye of Magnus, Ancano and Bromjunaar has a surprising depth to it, raising questions about the Thalmor, Savon Aren's life, what the Eye actually is, the abilities of Magnus, the appearance of magical anomalies and the implications of them, etc. I appreciated the nod to the metaphysics of the Elder Scrolls universe.

 No.9810

the college is an interesting choice, though I doubt you will get many people agreeing with you on here

While I completely agree that the concept, lore, implications and general theme of the college questline was very interesting and had great potential, I must admit that I found it frustratingly short, both in terms of length, and actual content. I was left frustrated by how much better it could have been.

e.g. the Augar of Dunlain - why include such a unique and interesting character/concept if you're only going to give them about a minute's worth of content and about three lines?

If we're looking at the Skyrim quests, then the DLC's had much more interesting and fleshed out questlines, in paticular the section in the Soul Cairn in Dawnguard, and Aetherium Forge quest really clicked for me, probably because the real problem with Skyrim was the lack of variety, so having 1. a completely new area with unique enemies and 2. having more puzzle based challenges was refreshing.

In Oblivion, I always have a soft spot for the fighter's guild, the first time I played I was focusing on building a fighter type character and I really got invested in the plot of the guild. There was good mission variety, decent story, and a brilliant final quest that made you feel like a one man wrecking machine.

Again though, the KOTN dlc questline was really good, as was the ayleid statues questline, finding all the statues without cheating and looking up the ruins to go to was such an investment, but ultimately worth it for one of the best reward items in the game.

In the main questline, Mankar Camerons paradise was interesting, some of the implications and comments you can pick up in it had me thinking about the lore involved for a good while first time I played it.

Finally on Oblivion I feel I have to bring up Canvas the Castle - probably the most unique ES quest to date - nothing like it before or since. No remarkable rewards or anything, but really memorable for how different it was.

For Morrowind, the star of the show for me has to be the main questline, the Morrowind story was simply the best in the series so far, and I don't see it ever being equaled again. Even the side characters in the main quest were some of the most memorable NPCs of all time, and the content and lore was deeper and more fleshed out than we could even dream of getting in the recent games.


 No.9811

>>9810

Totally agree about the quest length, although it really applies to most of Skyrim's questlines. A lot of potential was squandered. That's something Bethesda keep doing, though; taken to extremes in Fallout 4 - though I won't ramble further as this isn't the board for it.

Admittedly I haven't played much Oblivion as I'm a consolefag and it hasn't aged well at all. I did, however, like the introduction to the Shivering Isles. Feels like another game, if I'm honest.


 No.9812

>>9809

I also thought the trip through Labyrinthian is a nice callback to TESI Arena where you went through there searching for a shard of the Staff of Chaos. Which the Staff of Magnus looks like oddly enough.

I wish there was some trace of the Eternal Champion there though.


 No.9816

File: 1449036058028.jpg (7.06 KB, 172x200, 43:50, 1447437153750.jpg)

Whodunnit, hands down.

Oblivion had some damned good quests overall though. The thieves guild actually felt epic, but not retardedly epic like the quest OP mentions, and not drowned in menial bullshit like the Morrowind MQ. Manimarco was underwhelming as fuck, but I can't recall being really let down by any other quests in Oblivion. KotN and SI were icing on the cake.


 No.9817

File: 1449036179242.jpg (72.99 KB, 500x366, 250:183, 58535523435.jpg)

The Winterhold questline was especially shit. You get promoted from novice to archmage in like 2 days (no magical talent required, by the way!), the staff of Magnus was an overhyped piece of shit, you find le mystery ball and never get the chance to do something cool with it, or find out more about its history or purpose. The quest ends with le mystery elves stealing the only interesting thing from the College, and you get to move into a new room. Whoop de fucking doo.

You should be slapped with a fish for enjoying that garbage.


 No.9826

>>9816

>>9811

>>9810

Looks like we can agree that Oblivion, though it had many faults, had the best quests of the series so far.

Great variety, good and more importantly balanced rewards, good length to the guild quest lines without resorting to "filler" fetch tasks and "go kill this sabrecat at this location" (Skyrim), enough interesting characters and lore where you want it to keep it interesting without it bogging down the simple ones.

I've actually thought for a while now that Oblivion would be hands down the best ES game if it wasn't for the dodgy visuals, and slightly mundane setting / formula fantasy enemies


 No.9827

>>9826

>>9817

I found Oblivion's Mage Guild to be a lot shittier than the College. It was all so predictable and mundane, most of it just felt like a chore you had to do just to face Mannimarco, which was also a fucking disgrace.

So I'd say the best one for me was Oblivion's Thieves Guild, if not for the constant grinding. However if you abuse it and just steal an enchanted item, it's very enjoyable.

The one I loved the most was Dark Brotherhood though, and like >>9816 said, Whoddunit is probably the best quest in all of TES.

tfw you figure out the handwriting on the contracts is different on the third contract on.

tfw you find dark brotherood robes in the khajiit's house


 No.9828

>>9817

The implementation of the quest was crap. Obviously. That's the entirety of Skyrim.


 No.9830

Any quest on Solstheim.


 No.9831

>>9827

> I found Oblivion's Mage Guild to be a lot shittier than the College.

I can accept that having a final quest where you kill Mannimarco is a bit of a let down lore-wise, but really?

Okay, I get that the outlawing Necromancy plot wasn't everyone's cup of tea, but I'd rather they went for something that was a bit bland than completely underwhelming for the lore it used.

I'd agree that the college quest-line wasn't "mundane" but only because it lasts about two hours, so you don't really have a chance to get bored of it! And let's not forget that every single quest you do could be summarized as "go to this dungeon and get this item at the end of it". Add on to that the painfully obvious Arcano-is-the-bad-guy predictability, lack of any depth other than "whoah, we found this thing and it's bad, but luckily some random guys turned up and took it away", and you really can't say enough that becoming archmage after a couple of hours of game-play is just laughable.

There is no sense of progression, no sense of wonder, no sense of urgency, and this is a quest-line dealing with some of the most mysterious and potentially interesting lore and artifacts in the ES universe.

The mages guild recommendations quests last longer, have more variety and are just better than the entire college quest line.

__

Whodunnit is a great quest, but I'd be lying if I said I was as invested in the dark brotherhood story in Oblivion as much as I was in some of the other guild stories. I realize that I am in the minority here and that pretty much everyone loved the DB in Oblivion!

We should give some love the the KOTN quests too - in particular the various quests you need to complete to get the artifacts are all unique and fun and the first time you do them a couple of them would have had you scratching your head a bit to work it out! I remember the one with the bear in the forest had me really confused at the time

>>9830

Bloodmoon or Dragonborn?

I did really enjoy working out the Kaarstag easter egg in Dragonborn, Kaarstag really was the final boss the game deserved in terms of difficulty - and I worked it out without any guides etc. though that isn't technically a quest


 No.9842

>>9830

This too. The Bloodskaal Barrow quest is great because it's actually leveled; the Draugr Deathlords inside with ebony weapons are there from level 1. I once played a Bosmer thief and went to Solstheim as soon as I had 250 gold for the trip there. You get powerful gear so early. Dragonborn is end-game for sure.


 No.9845

>McGuffin.

>McGuffin.

>McGuffin.

>Psijics could have took it away at any time but waited until the last quest because the writer was just making shit up as he went.

>Whole thing is completely pointless.

College was probably the worst writing in the entire game.


 No.9847

>>9831

>I'd agree that the college quest-line wasn't "mundane" but only because it lasts about two hours, so you don't really have a chance to get bored of it! And let's not forget that every single quest you do could be summarized as "go to this dungeon and get this item at the end of it".

You're saying that like it can be applied only too all the College quests. It can be applied to most Skyrim quests, so it didn't feel that bad when I was playing. If I were to do the quest line now, yeah probably I'd hate it too.

>Add on to that the painfully obvious Arcano-is-the-bad-guy predictability

Actually, I was surprised that he started shit. I would've expected him to sit and be a bitch most of the time, it's not characteristic of Thalmor guys to just go full retard.

>you really can't say enough that becoming archmage after a couple of hours of game-play is just laughable.

Again, that happens in all Skyrim factions. Not that it's a good thing, but it stops surprising you.

>There is no sense of progression, no sense of wonder, no sense of urgency, and this is a quest-line dealing with some of the most mysterious and potentially interesting lore and artifacts in the ES universe.

Unlike Oblivion's Mages Guild.

>The mages guild recommendations quests last longer, have more variety and are just better than the entire college quest line.

I found that it took more time to travel between the cities than doing the actual quests. Which also (probably except the Well one - which I thought was just interesting, not fun or challenging") were not really entertaining at all.


 No.9850

>>9831

Dragonborn. I don't have the legendary edition of Morrowind but I'm sure Bloodmoon is cool too.

>>9842

I really like how the dungeons there are actually unique unlike most dungeons on mainland Skyrim


 No.9864

>>9850

>but I'm sure Bloodmoon is cool too.

fuck yes. mostly due to lycanthropy kicking all kinds of ass.


 No.9867

>>9847

> You're saying that like it can be applied only too all the College quests. It can be applied to most Skyrim quests, so it didn't feel that bad when I was playing. If I were to do the quest line now, yeah probably I'd hate it too.

Actually, I was just responding to you/OP saying that the college ques tline is the best in the series, the fact other quest lines in Skyrim are also bad doesn't make the college any better.

> Actually, I was surprised that he started shit. I would've expected him to sit and be a bitch most of the time, it's not characteristic of Thalmor guys to just go full retard.

Okay, so you played the game and though "oh look there's this total prick hanging around at the college, I guess he wont have anything to do with the quest story" and you were surprised when he turned out to be an s'wit?

> Again, that happens in all Skyrim factions. Not that it's a good thing, but it stops surprising you.

It still doesn't mean it's acceptable, and it's still a legitimate criticism of the quest line.

> Unlike Oblivion's Mages Guild.

I really don't agree that there is a comparable lack of progression in the mages guild in ES4 and the college in ES5.

The fact you have to get all the recommendations before you can even get into the Arcane University, which also means you cant enchant or make your own spells! Compared to the college where you just have to cast one novice level spell to get in, and you could enchant in any old town before you even join, and there is no spell making.

Never mind the fact you have to play more than 2 hours to actually complete it, and that you get rewards and actual noticeable progress as you work through.

> I found that it took more time to travel between the cities than doing the actual quests. Which also (probably except the Well one - which I thought was just interesting, not fun or challenging") were not really entertaining at all.

I can accept things not being to your taste, but are you really saying you prefer the lack of variety in the college quests? Every single quest is "go to this dungeon and get this item at the end of it", even if you resent having to travel around (which to me was great as it naturally made you explore more in the early game and not rush things etc.) you have to admit the quest variety was far better which is only ever a good thing, you could actually complete some of them in more than one way too - just think about that for a second.


 No.9868

>>9867

> forgot about the s'wit word filter


 No.9870

I could repeat the Dawnguard quest where you attract moths in a secluded vale countless times.

>you will never be a moth priest journeying through Nibenay, healing citizens in remote hamlets and unveiling reality through ancient moth rituals


 No.9879

>>9870

feelsbadman.exe


 No.9884

>>9870

anon, you don't want to be a moth priest. they lead shit boring lives with shit eyes.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Effects_of_the_Elder_Scrolls


 No.9889

>>9884

I never mentioned reading any scrolls. Or living in a monastery. That's for old priests who can't walk anymore. After getting 80+ you "retire" in a monastery and read eleder scrolls for the last few years of your life.


 No.9920

>>9870

Every quest leading up to that is mediocre at worst and unremarkable at best, although The Soulcairn was a good visit.

Every quest after that one however is just fucking great, the whole level design, going through the temple of Auriel it feels like a solid game, even a little different than a TES game.And fighting the twin dragons? the frost giants the endless falmer-infested cliffs.. Quite honestly it redeems the lore faults of Dawnguard as well as serana being an annoying cunt.

in comparison, I didn't feel like Dragonborn was quite up my alley in regards of a questline, although the lore in it is far better, I didn't really enjoy it as much as I did Dawnguard's later quests. I do have to admit I loved apocrypha, specially because as far as dungeons go, it's very interactive and clear-cut. In its design it was interesting and had a beautiful approach to it which reminded me a lot of level desing in older FPS games like Half-life, quake, Turok and so on. I had that same feeling going through the Soul Cairn, however apocrypha was much more fleshed out and it felt like it had a clearer gameplay purpose.


 No.9924

The Civil War. Makes some sense in your progression. You start as a grunt, but end as an officer, with an stelar rising, but not the head of the faction.

College of Winterhold? You mean that one which they nominate you as Arch-Mage even if you can only yell "Fus" or fart some shitty fireballs?


 No.9930

>>9809

>>9812

> no trace of the Eternal Champion

Nigga, did you see Labyrinthian?

> the original Labyrinth is gone

> the place is even more ruined than before

The Eternal Champion had to have fucking nuked the place. There's really no other explanation for that bullshit.


 No.9931

File: 1449281704901.png (49.76 KB, 393x600, 131:200, Thats a really tough one B….png)

>>9812

Are you fucking shitting me? Did you see the Labyrinth? It's amongst the most disappointing things in the entire game. How someone could consciously design a maze that doesn't even deviate from a single fucking path is absolutely astonishing. And the fucking spells to pass through it are provided for you at the beginning! It's so insultingly simple that it honestly makes me wonder whether or not the entire thing was some sick Bethesda inside joke over how casualized they've made the series.


 No.9938

Lately I just like blinding myself with the elder scroll in Skyrim again and again. It makes me want to mod something to add a whole bunch of random TES-canon charts and sketches and things to be burned into your vision at random selection when opening the scroll, instead of the same thing over and over.

Also, it would make your camera get progressively and permanently blurrier but at a slow rate, like the moth priests. But only in first person.

Somehow I want the elder scroll itself to have some actual meaning as a game item, real consequences and rewards and secrets.

I was just playing Oblivion again today and I have to say I did miss it. Everyone loves to hate it now that Skyrim babbies and Morrowind lorefags are tired of trying to ostracize each other, but it really is just another flawed gem in the series, and it's great.

Not being able to directly modify carryweight is dumb though, there's nothing enjoyable about being nailed to the ground while playing a venturesome fantasy rpg. The level scaling really is as bad as remembered, too.

The only quest I really remember about Oblivion is curing vampirism, which was of course much more involved than the limp-dicked Skyrim version. It annoyed me but I wasn't going to let my desperately virtuous Oblivion-farming paragon of righteousness give in to the darkness. Ultimately, though the main part of the quest was the dumb running around for the soul gems, the quest does stick out so I guess that makes it good. I really spent most of my time searching out and gate-crashing those sameshit Oblivion gates. Couldn't get enough until the level scaling got to the point where I needed an inaccessible perch and at least 50 arrows to take out a Clannfear.

Morrowind? I don't know. Quests are a pain to play through in Morrowind. Exploring is better.

I haven't played the others.

>>9810

>why include such a unique and interesting character/concept if you're only going to give them about a minute's worth of content and about three lines?

Two words: Release deadline.

>>9884

>unravelling the mysteries of Aetherium

>having an entirely unique lifelong knowledge and experience and discipline culminating in a massive revelation before you retire in comfort and acclaim to guide and hear from the initiates and younger priests while enjoying good, smart conversations and sipping ale by a warm fire at night, reflecting on all you know of the hidden worlds behind worlds

>boring

>>9931

You should read the wiki article on labyrinths and come back when you feel properly stupid.


 No.9941

File: 1449316526696.png (1.2 MB, 900x600, 3:2, 34658677890.png)

>>9938

>"having an entirely unique lifelong knowledge and experience and discipline culminating in a massive revelation before you retire in comfort"

>comfort

>implying there is anything comforting about truths and concepts completely alien to mortal minds

>implying your finite mortal soul wouldn't be forever haunted by existential terror after having glimpsed the world through the lens of the godhead


 No.9946

>>9938

>You should read the wiki article on labyrinths and come back when you feel properly stupid

What the fuck are you even talking about you retard?

The pic in my post was the Labyrithian, as far as Bethesda is concerned. The rest of the stuff is the newly added city of Bromjunaar, hence the fact that it is, you know, not a fucking labyrinth.

You should play the Arena level on labyrinths and come back when you feel properly stupid.


 No.9948

Bromjunaar was cool, especially that huge room with a skeletal dragon crawling out of a ravine accompanied by like twenty skeletons. I got fucking goosebumps there.

Labyrinthian… not so cool.


 No.9951

>>9946

What I assume he means is that the real-world classical definition of a labyrinth is that it is just one long path (like the one in Labyrithian) , it's not actually like a maze where there are dead ends and multiple paths. i.e. he meant read the Wikipedia article on actual labyrinths, not the uesp article on the place in the game

What's odd is that the specific Labyrinth in the Greek myth about the Minotaur strongly implies from it's wording that it was more like a maze than a labyrinth…

Bit off topic, but hope this helps clarify.

>>9948

> Labyrinthian… not so cool.

agreed - it's not even like it's hard to imagine what would have made it great - make it bigger and longer, fill it with undead enemies (why did it spawn daedra? this made no real sense?), have the puzzles not be retarded obvious to solve (and make them need higher level spells to do, and have it also have non-magic type puzzles e.g. shooting a distant target with an arrow) and actually have a really good reward for solving it rather than a circlet with a fairly weak enchantment.


 No.9955

>>9951

>fill it with undead enemies

Please no. Skyrim was overflowing with Draugr. There was a darth of any kind of other enemy in dungeons.


 No.9957

>>9941

Comfort in unlearned uncertainty is for plebs, if you can't deal with large and subtle realities, your loss. You are a creature who - in your grudge against the traditional 'curiosity of the people' - cannot bear the music of the spheres.

>>9946

You're complaining that they correctly placed a labyrinth in the game as the Labyrinthian lanyrinth. I agree that the actual implementation was really boring, but when you say:

>How someone could consciously design a maze that doesn't even deviate from a single fucking path is absolutely astonishing.

While talking about

>Labyrinthian

which is a

>labyrinth

It just sounds completely ridiculous.

There are lots of things they could have done to make an actual labyrinth interesting which they failed to do, especially given, like you said, providing the spells at the beginning (and having given specific spells as a "set way" to navigate it in the first place).

>You should play the Arena level on labyrinths and come back when you feel properly stupid

Arena was a game designed mostly by programmers, because the company was small at the time. Programmers often tend to hyperfocus on programming and not necessarily know much beyond programming except for a few specific hobbies they get deeply into. They tend not to do a lot of research on things they don't already know a lot about, because getting past compiler errors is more important to the product than the correct definition of a labyrinth, which is a very commonly misused term in fantasy and popular culture. This is not an unlearned outside assumption; I am a programmer and I work with other programmers.

Arena's Labyrinthian was great, but that doesn't make it any less stupid to rail on about how someone specifically designed a maze for a place called Labyrinthian as a labyrinth instead of a real maze. Labyrinths don't even need to have walls, they can just be floor patterns where you get to or from the center while mindlessly following the single predetermined path. It's meant to be relaxing and philosophical, and it's sort of pretentious, but it's one of the cool things the Greeks did.

>>9948

>Labyrinthian… not so cool.

My thought on seeing it was just "that's it?". It's not even very big.

>>9951

>What's odd is that the specific Labyrinth in the Greek myth about the Minotaur strongly implies from its wording that it was more like a maze than a labyrinth…

Yeah. Why the fuck would he need string to find his way out when there's only one way to go? Sure, in the dark you can get confused and bump into things and get turned around and lost just in weird architecture, but literally just keep walking until you get familiar enough with the walls to stop accidentally reversing direction, then walk until you get out.

It's a really fun bit of myth, with the minotaur and all, but it doesn't make any damn sense. I honestly don't know if some artsy fetcher Greek made a "labyrinth" one path because he was being lazy and self-aggrandizing, or it was supposed to be a metaphor for finding a winding way along like by the string in the legend, or if the original legend refers to what the Greeks made a labyrinth and it's just contradictory because the original storyteller was lazy.

In summary:

It would be more fun, gameplay-wise, as a maze or multiple mazes in Skyrim. It's still funny for someone to act all shocked and surprised about a Labyrinthian with no dead ends, though. It's weird when people are lore experts about games but just have no interest in or regard for or basic knowledge of all of the historical mythos good storytellers draw on so richly.


 No.9971

File: 1449383206346.jpg (337.38 KB, 1440x900, 8:5, 5687696845.jpg)

>>9920

I don't think I can ever be impressed by a Daedric realm. Not really because of Bethesda's general failure; but because a game will never capture my vision of what daedric realms should be.

First think about what a daedric realm is. Unlike Mundus, which is governed by a set physical laws (or "earthbones"), each one is a self-contained universe and a literal extension of its master, subject completely to his whims. Being part of these alien cosmic entities, these worlds should be completely unintuitive to mortal senses.

Imagine Mora's library actually being massive, twisting, fractal structures stretching into all directions, like synapses inside of a giant brain or something.

>Gravity is warped to fuck, and you can't tell which way is up or down.

>Spacetime folds onto itself, getting you stuck in endlessly looping hallways, things look much further or closer than they actually are, straight or logical paths toward something can be impossible.

>Your senses are assaulted by unfamiliar information. You are not aware of the passage of time. Were you here a day or ten years? Your surroundings seem to evoke strange thoughts and feelings, as if your mind is being intruded upon.

I'd never expect all that shit in a videogame, but think back to how absurdly mundane the "realm of madness" was. that was the place to go balls to the wall nuts with environment and level design, yet it was just a guy on an island sitting in a castle. there should be a little more to gods than that.


 No.9973

>>9957

>than the correct definition of a labyrinth, which is a very commonly misused term in fantasy and popular culture

Well given that both Arena and Skyrim literally describes the dungeon as a "maze", and that had these developers actually known this technical definition they probably wouldn't have named it "Labyrinthian" in the first place, I'm going to assume that they are following the definition of "labyrith" as presented in a dictionary, and that the Skyrim designer is a fucking fаggot.


 No.9976

>>9971

I don't know about you, but I liked Apocrypha in the Dragonborn DLC.


 No.9979

>>9976

This. Also, Mora WANTED the Last Dragonborn to become his champion and replace Miraak. It makes sense that Apocrypha was traversable from that perspective - murderous Lurker Sentinels, poisonous, blinding mists and shifting hallways filled with angry Seekers aside.


 No.9981

>>9971

I get you, I understand where you're coming from here and I can see why you're left unimpressed.

But quite frankly I don't see much reason lore-wise to have such high (if not wild and warped) expectations of Daedric realms.

Some which we'll likely never visit are pretty much what you want, for instance Meridia's realm sounds cryptic as fuck. But I think it makes perfect sense for realms such as The Shivering Isles to ultimately make sense, since its owner is a balance between dementia and mania who is perfectly lucid in his madness. Remember that Sheogorath is the Daedric Patron of -yes, the mad- but also of the creative ones and the artists, the inspired peoples of Nirn who contemplate the little-madness that is all art and passion. His realm reflects something that is whimsical and fantastical (by Tamrielic standards) yet it is an artistic freeform which is comprehensible within its own context.

In the case of apocrypha, a lot of it was twisting and warping, the material proprieties seemed flexible, hallways were folded into strange angles and they unfolded upon your viewing them. The tentacles of Mora were protruding from the green-and-obsidian ocean of poison as well as from the skies, were the skies a semi-frozen ocean too?

Mora's tendrils and his images where two-dimensional illusions who chased your point of view perfectly to try and uphold this mirage, which -if you ask me- represents Mora's own two-dimensional existence, he's a broken hoarder of knowledge, he keeps knowledge in books and has no real need of knowledge other than itself (whereas others need knowledge in order to do things). Perhaps Herma-Mora itself is a refraction of knowledge as inscribed on the Arubis or an Elder Scroll, and his image we see of him on Tamriel and oblivion is this knowledge rearranging itself into a three-dimensional facsimile to be understandable by our perception.


 No.10001

>>9999

nice quads


 No.10076

>>10001

does this place have a fucking moderator or what? the board is too small for this shit, if you're here do your job, fag.


 No.10254

>>9868

What kind of inane "wordfilter" nonsense would a fetcher like you come up with?


 No.10258

>>10076

And you're 4 months late. Kill yourself.


 No.10259

>>10258

It's one thing to be European, it's another to just be a dumbass.


 No.10277

>>10259

They overlap more than most people think.




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