/tg/ - Traditional Games

Is the nWoD Armory book meant for any particular setting, all of them ore something that is nWoD but not any of the X: the Y settings?

>>192928

>Is the nWoD Armory book meant for any particular setting, all of them ore something that is nWoD but not any of the X: the Y settings?

I think it works for every gameline, but I'd have to check again.

>>192926

>Put your feet up andshitpost about which edition is better,

Well, so forth we have more or less three editions:

1. Old WoD (including older products, revised lines, etc).

It's pretty shit games, but lore is awesome.

2. "New" WoD.

Lore isn't that bad, but it's nowhere near oWoD. The game itself is… better. Better organized, some rules were clarfied a bit.

3. "Let's ruin everything and inject as much SJW elements as possible" WoD, consisting of latest products.

I'm not sure about the game, but reading it triggers my amalgamalgala, or whatever part of brain is responsible for saying "fuck it, I'm not gonna invest time into playing this crap".

Thoughts?

>>192926

>Edition

I can't give a full answer, since I've yet to play CWOD, but I prefer NWOD over God Machine so far. In god machine's favour, I do prefer beats over normal exp.

>Supernatural

My favourite's vamp, but I've only tried vamp and hunter so far.

>Waifu

You're kidding, right?

>Why beast sucks

In addition to what has already been said, it's basically a poorly done hatch-job of a number of different supernaturals together, while effectively feeling exactly like vampire, but with more power fantasies and less nightlife.

Honestly I think they should have gone even more in the deep end, and then turn around a game which was basically "alright, these guys are delusional madmen. Meanwhile, in the real world…"

I'm in the early stages of designing a splat which is about playing a cyborg, but I'm trying to think of a goal which gives the game a unique feel. "remain human" is partially taken by vampire, while "avoid your controllers" basically makes it fae. Perhaps I should work it as a subsect of a system rather than it's own thing, like some kind of crazy variant for tier 3?

>>192975

>play a cyborg

Check out Promethean, Strange Alchemies I think. It has rules for playing sentient robots.

>>192993

*sapient, you mean.

And yes, either that or Saturnine Night. Or maybe Great Work. It's been a while, okay?

>>192975

>I prefer NWOD over God Machine so far.

>In god machine's favour, I do prefer beats over normal exp.

That's a strange opinion, then. What does nWoD have that makes it better than GMC in your eyes? It's basically just a rules revision packaged with a chronicle/antagonist premise.

There's nothing in it to stop you playing it as the basic nWoD paranormal-mystery game.

>I'm in the early stages of designing a splat which is about playing a cyborg

You've read nDemon, right? Aside from that, well, somebody already mentioned the Promethean option.

>>192958

Nigga what? The crunch as of God-Machine is leagues better than first edition NWOD.

>>193122

Not the same, anon, but how good is nDemon anyways? Also how much SJW bullshit is rammed into it? How much of it can be ignored? And more importantly, can I still create a pagan cult based around my character?

>>193394

In order: VERY good, just a sidebar or two, easily, perfectly possible.

>>193394

nDemon is absolutely excellent. It's Terminator and The Matrix, with cold war-style espionage and the God Machine. Your powers freely and reflexively (or dramatically and dangerously) bend the laws of reality and perception, allowing you to do all kinds of absolutely awesome shit.

There's one sidebar to do with 'gender identity and demons' which actually, incredibly, has a reason for being there. Since your characters are inhuman (the morality system for nDemon is the least 'moral', or least human, of any of the game lines) biomechanical quantum entitites inhabiting bodies that you may swap between or lose over the years, your character might prefer to keep using bodies of a certain sex, or race, if they can, or they may not care. You can ignore the sidebar, but it basically doesn't tell you anything that doesn't make sense for Demon.

>And more importantly, can I still create a pagan cult based around my character?

You can create whatever kind of cult or organisation you can imagine around your character. The variety of merits you can already take makes it super fun to build player-owned conspiracies. I ran a relatively-high-tier Demon game where different player characters were running:

>A powerful investment bank (with the entire board as part of his cult, his own security force, and an interrogation room with tile floors, walls, and ceilings)

>A private military contractor (with recently-stigmatised Valkyrie soldiers as the demon's right-hand men)

>A city-wide information-gathering network disguised as an ARG

>A little antiques/curiosities shop.

I had so much fun with this game.

>>193442

Oh wow, that actually sounds like fun. Imma go look and see if I can find the nDemon books.

>>193444

Oh, and boltholes (the equivalent of vampire havens, etc) are a great deal of fun. Depending on how you invest your dots, you can have a perpetually-stocked private armoury that you can open from any door, where the Twilight simply doesn't exist (so it's impossible for angels/ghosts/etc to phase through into your own private pocket dimension).

Plus, you can build in a failsafe which causes the bolthole, and everything/body in it, to cease to exist at any time you choose. People in it don't just die or 'disappear', they literally cease to exist in this universe. Nobody knows where they go.

There is so much in Demon that I could sit and enthuse about, but I've got to go somewhere. Have fun reading the books.

There's also time travel, parallel universes, and a power which lets you make an attempt to create any relatively mundane effect/outcome, using whatever skill you like, by abusing the laws of cause-and-effect. And you can have a component in your demonic form which allows you to run on walls and ceilings. Going loud (which lets you boost your power stat to 10, and learn all demon powers temporarily, at the cost of destroying your current cover identity and attracting the attention of every angel in an enormous radius) makes you more or less one of the most dangerous entities in the World of Darkness. We're talking on-par with high-power mages.

Old/Classic World of Darkness.

Supposedly there's a bunch of people posing as member of other clans. A Lasombra pretending to be the Ventrue Prince of Washington, for example.

A Medieval Ventrue, on the other hand, telling a bunch of Brujah Warrior-Scholars he's totally one of them.

And of course, everyone and their moms trying to get into the Pyramid of the Tremere.

But how the fuck does one get to infiltrate a clan that gives a crap about lineage and/or hierarchy in the first place?

>>193614

That's not all that common in the setting?

The Lasombra pretending to be a Ventrue was a 5th generation who was embraced during the roman empire.

And I'm pretty sure they weren't a lot of vampires successfully passing themselves off as Tremere.

>>193663

Tome of Mysteries is the main supplement and I would say is nearly a requirement to get the best experience from the game.

Summoners is good though for a very specific play type. Tome of the Watchtowers is a solid over all add on.

>>193614

3 options

Bribe someone to say you're his childe.

Impersonate someone who's known only by reputation where you are.

Invent a lineage wholesale and trace it to a guy too torp'd to argue.

>>193442

>>193447

I'm not gonna lie this game just sounds fucking ACE! Would any of you have a clean pdf that you'd be willing to share with me? I checked the PDF share thread and there doesn't seem to be one there I think my group would have a blast playing this just from the sounds of things.

>>193713

http://www.4shared.com/office/PLQqyMwM/demon_-_the_descent_-_core_rul.html

>>193714

I'm either retarded or sleep deprived, more than likely both, but is there a way to download the PDF without having to log in? Haven't used 4share before.

>>193718

I think you have to log in, yes.

>>193660

>And I'm pretty sure they weren't a lot of vampires successfully passing themselves off as Tremere.

All surviving Telyavs in the Sabbat; half of the shitty Satanist Bloodline in the Camarilla;

Nevermind that both Tremere-variations organize way too closely for me to see how that could ever last.

>>193734

>Nevermind that both Tremere-variations organize way too closely for me to see how that could ever last.

What do you mean?

>>193844

The Tremere being really hierarchical and bureaucratic, making long-term-impersonation harder than in other clans.

>>193950

I'd say the Ventrue is harder to infiltrate.

A little off topic, but has anyone read the fanbook Princess: the Hopeful? It was pretty much written for people who wanted magical girls in nWoD. From what I could tolerate reading, it's the retarded bastard child of Exalted and Madoka.

>>193965

How so? Just curious. I see the Ventrue as a vague aristocracy but the Tremere as an actual organisation

>>193965

Nah, nigga. The Ventrue are hard to infiltrate because they're sure to run background checks on you and investigate your whole lineage. The Tremere go after your blood, and that shit can't lie.

They're probably the hardest to infiltrate. The Nossies come close, but then you remember that they're pretty friendly with their Antitribu, which could mean that some Sabbat asshole is in your Camarilla, hiding as a Nosferatu, and spying on you for the enemy.

The Malkavians would also be a nightmare to infiltrate, because they can sense each other through the Madness Network. If you're not a Malk, you have no presence. But then again, these are the Malks we're talking about - people might not even listen to them when they say they've been infiltrated.

The easiest would be the Brujah and the Toreador.

>>194196

I like the way you think.

>varying degrees of aware that you aren't a Malk, varying from Malk to Malk

Remember that the Malks have that power that lets them see the writing on the wall. So where others see nonsense, the Malks see that "STEVEN IS FAKE AND A FAGGOT".

Great, now I can't stop thinking about a Malk character that's a talented graffiti artist to everyone else but the Malkavians. When they look at his art, all they see is shitposting.

The Malks could also pull a prank on the fucker that's trying to infiltrate them. So they give him enough information that seems accurate, but which will have devastating consequences for the infiltrator and his employees.

>>194203

Malks also have a tendency to act more insane than they are, and just because they see the writing on the wall doesn't mean they all understand it. It was hinted that some Malks are just as confused as their coterie by what comes out of their mouth.

>>194253

It'd be amusing to see a would-be infiltrator acting like the Fishmalk stereotype in order to fit in, but all he's doing is broadcast to the actual Malks that he's a pretender and a retard.

>>194283

>he's a Makara. Which at first I thought meant he was a clown

Kill yourself.

Has anyone had a game with a success player run cult in any supernatural splat or does these types of things tend to lead to disaster? It seems like a common goal but I never see it in anyone's story time, is it just typically reserved for NPCs who don't have to contend with as much shit in the way?

>>194296

>Doesn't the fact you understood that reference mean you should kill yourself too?

I'll settle for a murder-suicide.

Anyway since that autism's out of the way, after playing a crossover setting I'm shocked at how OP Beast's could potentially be. They can warp reality and perform area of effect debuffs on whole groups, at what is essentially level 1. To be honest I'm not sure my Daeva, who is built specifically to kill things with his sword and do it fast, could take out this Beast if our characters fought. With the rest of the coterie helping no problem but it bothers me that my combat oriented vampire character is at a disadvantage against a support oriented beast character.

Are they planning to nerf this or are beasts just that dangerous?

>>194314

>directly taking on someone more powerful than you

>not killing them in an indirect manner that cannot be traced to you

Do you even Vampire?

>>194319

We just started, still building contacts and stuff.

Most of the coterie is in circle of the crone, and I built my character to be an enforcer/assassin for the Covenant. Specialist Skill Weaponry Swords, Fighting Style Iaido, Celerity 2

I have a question about WoD: are they ever going to make it so that guns can actually kill people?

>>194295

That's pretty much what you do in Fallen. Form a cult, deal with other demons, wonder where Lucifer is and what the fuck is wrong with God, shit your pants when an Earthbound appears.

>>194325

Vampires don't need organs so bullets are bashing damage, but if you shoot them in the head it's converted to lethal, which can send them into torpor, where you can spam shooting them in the head until they die.

More human supernatural creatures can be killed by bullets a lot easier than vampires though.

>>194331

>Giving virtualoptard the time of the day

Don't. He's an attention whore and a baiting faggot.

>>194334

I need to /tg/ more often what happened and why is there a tripfag?

>>194337

God abandoned us.

>>194338

When I asked why there was a tripfag I assumed something had changed in the status quo, this isn't news, this is basic shit man.

>>194339

No, just refuse from halfchan where they're more ban happy.

>>194341

Fuck I thought his question was dumb, I mean, guns are still dangerous, if you don't have Celerity or body armor you're going to get hit regardless of how much you talk shit. And even with celerity they can still get a lucky shot in, and body armor only reduces damage.

Even if you are a vampire take enough bashing damage and it gets hard to move around, which means they can just keep shooting you.

I remember watching my new friends first character get shot down in Masquerade because he didn't take guns seriously.

>>194343

Are we talking oWoD or nWoD? Because I remember giving up hope and life when my group of nMages stood in a hail of bullets shot by professionals for like 3 rounds before they calmly retreated and ended up with about 2L total across all of them, which the thyrsus quickly healed.

Maybe they were just lucky, but it curbed my enthusiasm.

>>194343

>Fuck I thought his question was dumb, I mean, guns are still dangerous, if you don't have Celerity or body armor you're going to get hit regardless of how much you talk shit. And even with celerity they can still get a lucky shot in, and body armor only reduces damage.

Yeah and you take fuck-all damage from it too.

You do understand that a REAL gun will incapaciate you with one shot most of the time, right? I'm fine with RPGs letting it stretch out to 3 to 4 times for characters. But getting shot over and over because of the retarded WoD damage system and still standing just smacks of Twilight-esque "i am vampire mary sue so I can just soak up bullets like a bad-ass" bullcrap.

>>194344

>Maybe they were just lucky, but it curbed my enthusiasm.

Same with me. Why not just make each success deal 2 wounds instead of 1? It'd at least point out the different between getting stabbed and getting shot with a high caliber firearm.

>>194343

I don't even begin to understand the thought process that allows for one to assume that firearms are less serious because you're undead. A shotgun blast will still make sure you aren't walking anywhere, sustained fire will cause the 'thousand cuts' problem, and even small arms can put your eyes out or relieve you of some other small but vital organs like digits…a gun is always a problem unless you can regenerate on the spot. Vampires can't so that seems super obvious.

Anyways just hide VirTool's posts and forget about him.

REMINDER TO FILTER VIRTUALOPTARD WITH EXTREME PREJUDICE

>>194348

Well they should be a problem, but not as much of a problem as when you actually have to worry about bleeding to death or organ failure.

>>194344

nVampire guns are more of a threat

oVampire guns are not as much of a threat but they can still ruin your night

>>194345

I am fully aware of what a gun can do.

Vampires don't need their organs and can work through pain better than mortals, beasts and werewolves have a healing factor, I don't play mages so no comment there.

Thing is, even in oWoD, where guns were indeed laughable weapons, they could still put down a vampire.

>>194348

A shotgun blast does fuck you up more than other guns actually, sustained fire does stack damage and will eventually put a vampire down.

But vampires don't actually bleed unless they want to. But you can suffer critical hits like missing digits and getting eyes shot out, they're just kind of rare.

>>194352

>I don't play mages so no comment there.

Pretty much any starting mage can have 3 armor up pretty much 24/7 without much power investment.

>>194348

>I don't even begin to understand the thought process that allows for one to assume that firearms are less serious because you're undead. A shotgun blast will still make sure you aren't walking anywhere, sustained fire will cause the 'thousand cuts' problem, and even small arms can put your eyes out or relieve you of some other small but vital organs like digits…a gun is always a problem unless you can regenerate on the spot. Vampires can't so that seems super obvious.

Well, they are less serious, but not trivial.

The problem is not realism here, it's the shitty way that World of Darkness handles damage.

>>194349

Reminder to fuck off.

>>194352

>Thing is, even in oWoD, where guns were indeed laughable weapons, they could still put down a vampire.

Yeah no shit. Any weapon can put down anything in an RPG with a wounds system assuming it's capable of doing the damage.

The problem is that a fucking average person in WoD takes like 6 pistol shots to kill. Even the average character. Because of the retarded way that damage works.

Christ, like I said, make them deal 2 damage per success and it would reflect a bit more of how fucking lethal guns are. Yeah, people CAN get shot a dozen times and keep going, but just as many people get shot ONCE and go down and fucking die like they are supposed to. I don't care if WoD is not meant to be realistic, the least it can do is make sense. Especailly when wounds are basically meat points in that system.

> A shotgun blast does fuck you up more than other guns actually, sustained fire does stack damage and will eventually put a vampire down.

Mate, I'm fine with vampires being tougher. My problem is you can stick a fucking chainsaw in the average Joe's gut in WoD and it will take like 8 rounds to kill him if you get shitty rolls.

>>194353

Best my Daeva can do is 2/2 armor when he activates Celerity, and even that doesn't activate until I spend a Vitae per turn to keep it active.

I'd have to give up Sakti Pata or Cruach to get 3/3 armor.

And I like being able to poison enemy vampires that manage to grapple me. It hasn't happened yet and I haven't even used the poison to deal extra damage with my katana yet, but still it'll probably be useful when it happens.

Cruach is way to useful to give up to.

>>194354

oWoD was broken as shit, but if you must know, and since you haven't bothered to read it your damn self, in nWoD you have less health and guns deal more damage. In fact they deal 2 damage, as you seem so intent on them doing.

Also that last point is complete bullshit, once the chainsaw is inside them and on it's dealing continuous damage.

And finally, the oWoD health system is nowhere near as broken as you think it is, yeah it's a little broken, but each level of wound gives you debuffs, as in, "Oh fuck shot in the leg can't move as fast" or "Uh oh, shot in the arm, that hand is going to get a smaller dice pool for combat" and my personal favorite "well that mine blew my leg off, guess I'm crawling away"

because Vampires don't go into shock when they get hurt, and they can't bleed out or get infections, they're just generally sturdier than mortals. And in the World of Darkness, even the mortals are pretty fucking sturdy, because the universe hates them, so they fucking adapted to it.

>>194358

>oWoD was broken as shit, but if you must know, and since you haven't bothered to read it your damn self, in nWoD you have less health and guns deal more damage. In fact they deal 2 damage, as you seem so intent on them doing.

Mate, I have the nWoD pdfs on my computer. I've read them several times. I don't have any oWoD shit.

And every person I have seen play WoD has complained that guns are basically puffs of farts in their general direction. It applies to minions and mooks too. It's like gun combat in d20 modern, it's fucking retarded.

> And finally, the oWoD health system is nowhere near as broken as you think it is, yeah it's a little broken, but each level of wound gives you debuffs, as in, "Oh fuck shot in the leg can't move as fast" or "Uh oh, shot in the arm, that hand is going to get a smaller dice pool for combat" and my personal favorite "well that mine blew my leg off, guess I'm crawling away"

Yes, because getting slashed with a chainsaw on the leg will slow you down a bit, that makes it okay that it doesn't manage to actually kill you.

> And in the World of Darkness, even the mortals are pretty fucking sturdy, because the universe hates them, so they fucking adapted to it.

Yes, I'm sure every dumb cunt who goes to the coffee shop is going to be a hardened survivalist. No. If she gets shot she's more than likely to go the fuck down.

>>194361

I can see why you're ignored by the rest of /tg/

>>194365

That response answers literally none of my points. Why is World of Darkness a padded sumo game when it comes to combat?

>>194366

Because damn near everyone is supernatural, if you're having difficulty killing someone with a chainsaw in World of Darkness, maybe you just shouldn't be playing World of Darkness.

And chainsaw's would be pretty useless as a melee weapon anyway.

>>194352

>But vampires don't actually bleed unless they want to.

A wood chipper ought to fix that.

Now I want to play young Jesse Ventura as a vampire hunter.

>>194379

How would one go about adapting the wood chipper into a practical weapon for use in combat situations?

>>194381

I imagine it more for use after you really kicked the shit out of a vampire (and I use that term literally), but perhaps you could take a smaller version and use it like a 40k power claw, or attach it to the front of some form of vehicle, with some modifications to the 'mouth'.

>>194393

I do not understand.

>>194400

It's a reference I expected none to get it and I still made it.

>>194381

Slap a pistol grip onto it.

Is anyone running a game and looking for players?

>>194484

>>194365

>>194371

Is Virt to 8ch/tg/ what Cash was to 4chan /tg/ or is he?

>>194370

>maybe you just shouldn't be playing World of Darkness.

I'm not. It's a shit game.

That said, even if "near everyone is supernatural" that still doesn't mean the average mundane human shouldn't die from a couple pistol shots or a rifle shot. It's just logical. Characters, yes, they have plotarmor, that's fine. And supernatural creatures should be tougher. But the "average person" test that so many RPGs manage to do well in, WoD fails horridly in. That's why it's full-on padded sumo combat second only to D&D 4th edition. It takes for-fucking-ever to kill someone. Try playing a real combat game like Savage Worlds or MiniSix and you'll see what I mean.

>>194366

Because WoD is a game written by retards who can't into gamesystems and don't like character death so they just scaled up health instead of improving dodging or something

>>194684

Why are you responding to bait.

>>194684

>when you get right down to it, the World of Darkness has always run on the power of believing in yourself, and it takes that concept to it's darkest logical endpoint.

That's embarassingly-retarded, Harry-Potter-tier naive childish bullshit. Isn't this supposed to be a grimdark game?

>>194752

Non-argument. Does not apply.

Answer my question:

> Isn't this supposed to be a grimdark game?

>>194771

The same god that unleashed some horrible evils, imprisoned some others instead of destroying them and then lost interest in his world, mind you.

>>194771

>Nigger it takes believing in yourself and makes it dark, if you believe you're a worthless piece of shit, you die.

That sounds like a horrible RPG made out of a self-help book.

> In Beast, the antagonist Heroes are Heroes instead of Beasts specifically because they believe they're special snowflakes, that's right, self importance makes you a villain.

So that makes no sense.

> The World of Darkness takes the Harry Potter naive childish bullshit and makes it grimdark. The writers have been doing this since it was possible for priests and rabbis to hold up a cross or a star of David and repel Vampires with raw blind faith in their useless fucking God,

I don't even what the fuck you are talking about now. I get the feeling you believe that vampires actually exist, though.

> Not that it matters, since if they had even a subconscious doubt it wouldn't work, guess what? It wouldn't fucking work.

Okay…. but believing in yourself at best makes you marginally more likely to succeed. Confidence won't let you beat some one in a fight when you can't aim for shit, though.

> You stupid fuck.

I agree. I am talking to someone who has no idea how the real world works, and also believes that "the writers" (who I think have only been publishing WoD for about 20 to 30 years at most) have been writing since " priests and rabbis to hold up a cross or a star of David and repel Vampires with raw blind faith in their useless fucking God, which really only serves to reinforce their faith."…. which I don't even know what you are talking about. Please seek help if you think vampires actually exist, though.

>>195377

It was a mechanic in old world of darkness, a faithful person could hold up their religious symbol and it would repel the vampire, if they had enough faith.

But some vampires were just too tough for that anyway and some could flat out melt crosses with their presence. It was actually pretty cool.

He was referencing oWoD, which you haven't even touched, if you don't know enough about the system you're complaining about to hold a discussion/argument about, expect to be treated like a retard, you moron.

>>195372

>>195370

>>195374

Someone put up a kikestarter to fund a comic adaptation of this.

>>195446

Our storyteller is a great storyteller, he's good at mixing political intrigue, combat, and occult themes.

Does vampire blood lose its addictive properties when cooked?

Because holy shit, that's a recipe for disaster right there. Open your own diner, and serve some hamburger with your own vitae thrown in. Several days later, you'll have your own army of ghouls and fast food addicts.

>>195534

Yeah, I think it does lose its properties when cooked, or generally subjected to high temperatures. You have to put the stuff in the food and drink on the go. Kinda like, y'know, a roofie.

Moot point anyways, because vitae becomes inert and loses its properties a short while after exiting the vampire's system. The only army you're going to have is one of FDA agents swarming your place to legally kick your teeth in.

>>195536

Or you start making blood sausages.

>>195534

While vitae is supposed to be delicious as fuck, it's also somehow at the same time too bitter to be all that easy to hide from people.

>>194684

That has nothing to do with what I posted and consensual reality was a godawful idea that was dragged out behind the woodshed and shot in the same book it was introduced in.

>>195581

Become a night shift Barista, mix vitae in with the coffee using Obfuscate to, well, obfuscate the fact you're doing it.

Mix blood bonded ghouls with a few dots in Majesty and you can start a riot anytime someone questions your authority.

>"You're the Prince!? But you work in a coffee shop!"

>"Oh you think that's funny?" *Majesty to get ghouled coffee drinkers attention* "Hey everyone this guy threatened to kill me!"

Bonus points if there are ghouled cops in the building.

>>195647

Well, you need to spend a WP to ghoul someone this time around, but it's doable if still a bit expensive.

>>195887

If I'm ever gonna play a nWoD game it won't be Vampires anyway.

That halfassed start was horrible and taints my view of it.

>Brujah

>Gangrel

>Ventrue

>Nosferatu

>Malkovians

>MALKOVIANS

>MALK_O_VIANS

>o

>>195908

Go home Matt

>>195908

>One of these days, someone is going to make really good Beast stories, and put them online, and you're going to go "damn, I guess Beast is pretty good, I wish I could have thought of that," and then you'll have egg on your face. Egg. On. Your. Face. Nigga!

Whatever you say, Matt.

>>195982

I thought Mirrors and Armory Reloaded were pretty great. Showed that at least someone at WW was capable of thinking outside the box.

>>195968

The fuck are you talking about?

>>196103

The initial nVampire book.

3/5 of the clans uses recycled names, some of the prominent Bloodlines uses Recycled names and there were Malkavians, except spelled Malkovians as a Ventrue bloodline.

Imagine expecting something completely new and instead seeing a blander version of what you already were used to before.

>>195982

>no love for Hunter

>>195380

>But some vampires were just too tough for that anyway and some could flat out melt crosses with their presence. It was actually pretty cool.

That's fine.

> He was referencing oWoD, which you haven't even touched, if you don't know enough about the system you're complaining about to hold a discussion/argument about, expect to be treated like a retard, you moron.

More namecalling. I guess you're just asshurt because your system can't even simulate average humans in a believable way.

> inb4 lol simulationist argument to prove you are even stupider.

>>196166

None of the WoD books have enough "unique mechanics" because WoD doesn't really have any unique mechanics. Save for maybe the morality shit.

>>196166

True enough, it's mostly fluff in the books.

>>196193

Vampires fall into torpor with lethal and hit final death with aggravated. Bashing damage just gives vampires wound penalties.

Humans fall unconscious with bashing, go into shock and start bleeding to death with lethal, and die outright with aggravated.

I also fucked up the range penalty, medium range is actually -2 to the dice pool, my bad there.

but yes I think you might be right, filtering his tripcode now

>>196192

> the weakest pistol adds 2 to your dice pool and deals lethal damage to a human.

So it makes it easier to hit as well? nice going WoD.

Didn't read the rest of your post, but I liked the last sentence of the first paragraph:

> Yes it's possible to miss even with 10d10, it means your character failed to hit the target.

Yeah, the chance of missing with a handgun is 0.7^10 or 0.0282475249. So 2%

Yeah I'm sure you're going to miss.

> Honestly if you dislike the rules of the game so much, just don't play it, no one else has a problem with it and finds it believable enough.

Actually, lots of people have a problem with it, that's why a lot of people don't play it.

> Besides who wants realism in a tabletop game, look at any other system, see how well that works.

GURPS, hell even Savage Worlds and the d6 system, have more realistic results from being shot with a gun.

And I'm not talking hit-location-phoenix-command simulationist bullshit.

I'm also not saying that CHARACTERS should be going down from 1-2 bullets unless it's a high-lethality campaign.

But minor-ass humans should die from a gunshot. This isn't fucking Counterstrike, try getting shot with a 9mil and see if you stand up from more than 1 or 2 shots.

GURPS has this, fucking even d20 fucking modern has it, if you make your average citizens 1st level. And an average rifle shot incapacitates the average human in d6 system or in Savage Worlds.

Are any of those particularly realistic systems? With the possibility of GURPS, no. But they at least reflect the fucking fact that a gun is a fucking dangerous weapon and cannot be brushed aside by sparkly face and stale teenage angst, as the edgelords who write World of Darkness, seem to think.

>>196201

2% chance to miss is still a chance to miss, it's much more likely the human will die with that kind of dice pool.

You seem to be having difficulty understanding the system, maybe Munchkin is a game more your speed?

>>196206

>2% chance to miss is still a chance to miss, it's much more likely the human will die with that kind of dice pool.

Hardly.

> You seem to be having difficulty understanding the system, maybe Munchkin is a game more your speed?

Are you grabbing for ground that desperately? Let's stay on topic here.

I'm assuming wounds are meat points in this system, eh? So you're saying an average guy with a shotgun, has a 2% chance of missing entirely?

Here's the thing about gunfights; REAL gunfights, and even gunfights in movies. You either get hit or you don't, and there's a huge different. You don't get "worn down" by bullets, mate. They tear huge chunks out of you and fuck up your shit.

Now, I am not asking World of Darkness to be a gritty-ass game where one bullet means you bleed out for months in the hospital. Far from it.

But I expect a gun to not have a 98% chance of dealing damage to someone. That's absolutely ridiculous. Even a shotgun or spraydown from an assault rifle, you're liable to miss. Hell, even point blank range isn't that accurate.

So can you explain why guns work so fuck-tardedly? I mean, I can think of at least three different rules changes that would almost objectively benefit the game here. And I'm not even a published game developer.

>>196192

>If you have more skill, say, dexterity 3, which is slightly above average and indicates a trained human, and a firearms of 3, which indicates someone who uses guns regularly, like a hunter or military, then you have a base dice pool of 6, with 2 being added from the pistol. That's a dice pool of 8, making killing a human with one shot much more likely.

You do understand the core of the issue, right? WoD mixes to-hit probability and damage in a frankly retarded way.

A bullet is a bullet no matter who pulls the trigger. If it hits it does the same thing. Yes, aim is important, and someone with good aim can kill more precisely and probably with fewer bullets.

But the idea that a shit-tier moron with 1 Dex can shoot someone over and over with a 9mm because "they have bad aim" is frankly retarded.

With swords at least you can rationalize it's scratches. With gunshot wounds, there's only so many peripheral body parts that can get punctured before everyone will start calling bullshit.

Just admit the system does not work well or beleivably for guns, and leave it at that. It does fine for other things.

So I heard with Demon a second edition of the nWoD core rules was released, or something like that.

Any significant changes?

>>196210

>>196213

At this point, even if anyone did agree with you, you're such an unlikable dick hole that no one wants to associate their opinion with yours anyway.

The majority don't see a problem with the system, it makes sense to me and if anyone agrees with you, that's fine.

If you don't like a system, don't play it, just because you can't wrap your head around it doesn't make it retarded.

But by all means, explain these rule changes, let's see how badly they'd fuck up the game.

>>196218

>At this point, even if anyone did agree with you, you're such an unlikable dick hole that no one wants to associate their opinion with yours anyway.

Mate, this isn't my opinion. This is pure facts. It will take several shots to kill someone in this system, whereas apparently someone with decent shooting has a 98% chance of hitting but only a small chance (0.3^7 or .02%) of actually killing them in one hit. Actually, that's incorrect, need to adjust for 10 again exploding dice rules, but whatever.

And this is against an average human.

> The majority don't see a problem with the system, it makes sense to me and if anyone agrees with you, that's fine.

Just because it makes sense to a delusional person, does not mean it makes sense. Hell even in unrealistic movies, a non-hero dies after 1 or 2 shots. Maybe 3 or 4. But not more.

> If you don't like a system, don't play it, just because you can't wrap your head around it doesn't make it retarded.

Actually, I CAN wrap my head around it, and DID. Just because I came to a conclusion that makes you squirm, doesn't mean I was wrong.

> But by all means, explain these rule changes, let's see how badly they'd fuck up the game.

Nah, you said it yourself. You won't agree with me because I'm an unlikable dickhole for pointing out flaws in your game. You're worse than 3aboos, to be quite honest.

Certainly if the system was more about hitting a target number rather than subtracting the fucking defense to try to wrap attacks into a single roll, it might actually work better. It'd mean there'd be a different between a hit and a miss at least.

But, as you say, that'd fuck up the game, which is based entirely around partial success, which does not fly with lethal weapons that can and should kill the average person in one hit.

That said, I know dice pool is more than capable of handling it. Just not the fucktarded formula WoD uses that combines attack skill and weapon damage so that a badly skilled person could fuck up shooting an RPG and fail to kill a housecat.

Honestly, I'm curious how many gunshots it does take to kill a cat.

Go ahead and pick apart my argument, though, and explain why it wouldn't work with your precious system. I'm sure it's perfect just the way it is. But when it starts leaving such glaring holes in believability, one starts to question why it is played at all.

>>196204

Why don't you just ban him?

>>196223

Cats are size 2 and have stamina 1, 3 successes with a gun kills a cat.

You have very clearly not wrapped your head around the system, you're clearly ass retarded and if you can't bring up any valid points to argue why the system is bad other than "muh realism" then I'm done arguing with you. Fuck off, no one wants you on the board.

>>196225

It's an often overlooked rule, but if you take any damage that exceeds your dots in stamina, you have to make a stamina roll or fall unconscious.

This doesn't count for certain supernaturals, but for mortal creatures, this is why you can punch someone in the face hard enough to knock them out without having to roll over all their boxes to lethal.

>>196232

I was actually unaware of this rule, I'll start using that, thanks.

>>196234

Oh, well damn, alright then. I'm tempted to use it as a homebrew rule anyway.

>>196235

If it's based on Stamina Dots, you're going to have characters passing out from a bump on the head, since 1-2 stamina is about average and even a child can scrounge together enough dice to do 2 damage to force a Stamina roll.

Maybe if any incoming damage from a single source or attack exceeds double their Stamina dots, they must make a roll to stay conscious, that might be more fair?

>>196214

Yeah, that's God Machine Chronicle. It is being (has been?) indexed, de-typo'd, and re-released as simply 'New World of Darkness 2e', too.

Aside from every splat getting an overhaul (with some very encouraging changes for the most part, so far), there are a bunch of small mechanical changes throughout the system, and a few larger ones.

Characters can be affected by environmental 'tilts' that give bonuses or penalties or other effects, and hit with 'conditions' that cover a variety of situations, and usually offer your player a 'beat' when they resolve or overcome it. 'Beats' are like fractions of experience, which are easier to get and the Storyteller can give more freely to award good roleplaying or accomplishing one of your character's 'aspirations'. You can also get one by choosing to downgrade your failure to a dramatic failure, or getting an exceptional success, among other things. It's five beats to get one experience, I think(?).

Virtue and Vice are way more flexible, and you can pick any 'virtuous' or 'viceful' trait you can think of, potentially with some overlap. There are more in-depth rules for social encounters, but nobody I know bothers with them.

>>196236

That sounds way more fair, yes. Especially since I don't think any of my players have a stamina less than 2. Although they are vampires, so they won't be being knocked unconscious.

>>196265

>Aside from every splat getting an overhaul (with some very encouraging changes for the most part, so far)

Dem Strix rules, Anon.

Dem Strix rules.

>>196295

Hush. We don't talk about the Strix.

>>196225

>You have very clearly not wrapped your head around the system, you're clearly ass retarded and if you can't bring up any valid points to argue why the system is bad other than "muh realism" then I'm done arguing with you. Fuck off, no one wants you on the board.

Again, it does not have to be realistic; merely believable. And a mundane human getting shot over and over and surviving, is not believable.

I have wrapped my head around your system plenty; the fact that its combat is INCREDIBLY poorly thought-out, is enough to dump the system by itself. Not to mention being a d10 dice pool system that makes me buy about a dozen d10s I'll never use anywhere else.

>>196363

>>196295

What about the Strix?

>>196995

I think the WoD crunch is garbage from start to finish, but I don't come into a WoD thread to tell everyone.

>>196166

So what mechanics would Hunter need to become interesting? From what I've read there's no 20th anniversary thing of it planned, though that might be becaues of its age (1999).

>>197002

a cool endgame condition, similar to how Beasts become legend or merge with their horror.

I don't know what though. You can't ever kill ALL the supernatural things. Maybe permanently purge and sanctify a city? Sort of a permanent consecration of holy normal ground? Cool journey, but boring goal once it's there.

Ascend like a Mage? Eventually wean off of special weapons and start Avatar Aang-ing vampires and werewolves with your bare hands? Then retire to a quiet town where nothing can come after you?

Bind your fate to that of another Elder threat, and you become nearly unstappable in killing that one specific antideluvian or legendary spirit, and you die taking it down too, with witnesses?

>>197002

It's not that Hunter isn't interesting, I'd just use a different system for it.

>>197006

As a win condition for Hunter… hm, maybe turn everyone into Hunters somehow, purge the world and make it a happy place for all the normies?

Though would this not fuck with the Wyrm or something once all the werewolves are yiffing in hell or whatever? I don't really know Werewolf.

>>197007

Out of curiousity, which one?

>>197006

Dunno, Hunter should be about survival and trying to fight back (in vain) against the world slowly going to shit all around you IMO.

Though if you want to give it some larger scale, you could use that little bit of fluff in DtF as inspiration. In it, a Demon stands against a Hunter who channels some of his power against it. The hunter shoots the Demon with an imbued gun, and the Demon goes killcrazy and tears the Hunter limb from limb.

Why? Because he felt what fueled the Hunter's power. God. And there wasn't any hatred behind that power, only love and pity for the Demon.

You could take Hunter with that. You start out as any regular Joe, and you end up imbued with what little remains of Gods power. As you grow stronger, you draw the attention of every supernatural motherfucker out there, and they all see you as a threat to them. Meanwhile, you have to deal with questions like "why me?", "how could God let this happen", "oh shit that thing is after my family", "how can I go back after seeing a Tzimisce eat a kid", and so on.

Then at later levels it turns out that Hunters are basically Gods/Gaias final solution. As you grow stronger, you end up turning into an angelic being. But this is Old Testament style, as you're the judge, executioner and grim reaper combined, and you've come to purge demons and vampires and werewolves.

God wants the world destroyed, and you're his sword. Get busy killing. After everything is done, you'll sit alongside God and help him make a new world from the ashes of the old one.

>>197024

I don't wanna be the faggot who keeps talking about GURPS in the WoD thread, but you asked, so it's GURPS.

Reasons being the options in weapons and equipment, being able to accurately stat all sorts of supernatural critters, should I think I need to, and because I like it.

>>197027

So pretty much a bizarro Demon. I can dig it.

>>197031

Eh, fair enough. Makes sense to stat out the critters in WoD, something that the core Hunter: the Reckoning didn't do from what I've seen.

>>197002

After playing bloodborne I played with the idea of hunters fueled by bloodlust with some supernatural powers centered around frenzy and hunting, but who might explode into monsters the stronger they get.

Powers like shifting themselves and their prey into different dimension and neither getting out until the other party is dead, though with the hunters building more frenzy (and thus more strength) as time goes on, but making it more likely they go insane.

Or something like that. Kind of misses the point of the hunter as a mortal underdog.

>>196995

Rich plz gone and stay gone

>>197115

>So pretty much a bizarro Demon. I can dig it.

Kinda.

You could also go for the angle that God's original vision of humanity (before the demons came and gave them civilization and shit) were just interested in eating, fucking and sleeping. So, as a Hunter grows in power, he becomes more like God's original vision of what a perfect Man should be.

Sure, you'll be capable of punching through a Werewolf and you won't ever tire, or you could heal from all sorts of wounds in a matter of seconds, but you'll slowly lose all your human characteristics as you become something similar to a mix of a Beast-ridden vampire and True Fae (from CtL). All that, with divine sanction to do whatever the fuck you want.

>>197128

>>197121

>>195980

>>196089

>make unpopular statements

>I work for White Wolf/Onyx Press

I wish it were that easy

>>197280

Just pretend your unpopular statements are against the patriarchy or something, and you got the job.

Hell, look at Beast.

>>197280

No, I didn't say that at all. I said it was bait.

Here's what an average party at the local Freehold looks like.

Or is this simply a fae having his fun with a few unfortunate mortals? You be the judge.

>>197917

I always thought it was more like this.

>>197006

>>197027

Eh, I always feel the deal with Hunter should be; there's a reason every supernatural being has a Masquerade. If humanity was aware of them, they'd be wiped out in a year at most. They have fancy powers with massive drawbacks, humans have armies, nukes and special forces. There's a reason so much of every splat is ways to hide your shit.

(And of course, on the other hand; there's nothing that monsters can do to humans that humans haven't at least tried to do to each other at some point)

Hunters are dealing with shit that no one knows about and that powerful people make sure no one gets to know about it and remain alive. Myth, legend, tinfoil conspiracies and religion all obfuscate the truth in ways it's almost impossible for people to stop believing, and people in power go out of their way to perpetuate them to make sure anyone saying the truth comes off as a nutjob. For most of them, it's like fighting Dracula; you cannot face them on their home ground and there's no chance of getting the authorities to help, you need to find their weaknesses and exploit them for all their worth.

There's not much of an endgame for Hunters aside from managing to kill the biggest local threat and maybe surviving to retire, or establishing an organisation that can continue the hunt when they're gone. The best case scenario would be breaking the masquerade, revealing at least one kind of supernatural creature to the world- so they can be wiped out, controlled, or even integrated into society. Of course, depending on what they are, that may be a temporary victory at best, or backfire horribly.

>>197968

That's actually pretty much stated in the Technocracy books.

Sure, they created a society where people can fight back against the horrors that lurk in the night, but said society is also too lazy and uninterested in doing anything but eating, sleeping and fucking to ever move forward. Ascension will never happen, because your average sleeper cares more about his iPhone than the chance to travel the stars or do other magical (enlightened science) stuff.

Basically, people are shit even in the game where people are special.

>>197985

I'm going to play a Beast-seeming Frog Girl Changeling in a game that's starting some time after Christmas.

>>197965

Honestly, that's what HtV did great. Average Joes fighting against the night.

Then they kept introducing new groups that were fueled by Abyssal intruders, ancient artifacts and other shit. It still works, kinda, but it'd probably be better if it was kept to the street level. Separate regular Hunters from the guys that have government backing or the Inquisition behind them.

>>198287

>groups that were fueled by Abyssal intruders

What the fuck, seriously? How can average joes use reality AIDS to get super powers?

>>198293

The Knights of St George, founded by fucking Lionheart himself, basically work for an Abyssal entity who lets them summon more Abyssal horrors in order to hunt down mages.

Then the Inquisition is run by a ghoul who wants to hunt vampires, in order to use their blood to become a supervampire. Then you have a group of Hunters that hunt Werewolves, who actually work for other Werewolves. Division Six is run by the Seers. And so on.

Basically, if WW needed to create a group to hunt some supernaturals, they'd do it, and fuck how little sense it makes. Which is fine, but keep that shit separate from regular hunters.

>>198477

nDemon meets Scooby Doo?

>>198478

nDemon meets Buffy. I mean, wouldn't it be nice to have your own slayer? I think you could even give her as many merits as you want, since it only costs more willpower if the deal is stacked towards you.

Update on the Beast/Vampire nWoD crossover from before

>political maneuvering all over the city

>nightly ritual to hide black veins in my aura

>loads of social rolling as we work our way up the covenant

>not going to go into details since social rolling, while dangerous and fun to play, is kind of boring to write about and read

>eventually do a favour for another elder, basic stuff, find out why his ghoul isn't answering the phone

>get to ghouls apartment

>no answer when knocking on the door

>Mekhet picks the lock

>Makara decides to stand watch just in case

>Makara usually stands watch, danger sense merit

>inside the apartment, blood is everywhere

>ghouls has been crucified against the wall

>strange writing on the wall

>Mekhet actually knows the language

>it's Arabic

>coterie out of character sighs about sandniggers

>Mekhet uses Auspex, investigates crime scene

>not enough to pick up a scent, but he learns a bit about the killer

>Makara raises the alarm

>it's the fuzz

>Mekhet checks their auras from here

>suddenly predators taint, Rotschreck check

>he passes but reveals that a vampire with a jet black aura is coming along with the human cops, mostly orange auras

>he decides to make a few checks and figures out the vampire coming was the killer

>we don't have long to figure it out

>Mekhet could hide, Makara could escape easily, but Ventrue is not stealthy and I kind of just want to catch the killer

>coterie decides to catch the killer

>Makara lacks a morality stat, declares he'll deal with the humans, asks Mekhet to go shut the lights off

Does anybody have the nWoD second edition stuff that has been released so far? I only have nDemon.

Mage 2e hasn't been released yet, right?

>>198480

>it only costs more willpower if the deal is stacked towards you.

I'd have to check, but I'm pretty sure it always costs more willpower to seal a lopsided pact, regardless of who it favours.

That's why you can't make really generous soul pacts with everybody to make them rich, meritorious and skilled supermen, then reap all the benefits yourself when you take their identities.

>>198989

What part of "we don't talk about the Strix here" do you not understand?

Does anybody have Flowers of Hell? Is it shit?

>>199247

go ask on halfchan, the actual devs and writers post in their /wod/ general

>>194400

>>194422

It's a vidya

Does anyone have Chicago by Night? I can't find it.

>>199247

https://mega.co.nz/#!dcx11AJZ!emwk6ckXNVOeV15UfHg5b1dNFFoS1K9-NZE0nXSQWHU

Tell me about the BBEGs of your campaigns, /wodg/.

Core 2e is out.

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/168428?affiliate_id=13&src=TheOnyxPath

Time to wait for someone to post the PDF.

>>201941

Fucking bullshit. I bought it. I thumbed through it. With the exception of some new merits, some clarifications, and some new fiction actually less qualitative than the original fiction it's functionally the players section of any of the recent releases (Blood and Smoke, Demon, Beast, etc.) that covers the game fundamentals, and God Machine Chronicle AGAIN. The back end of the book is literally a product they just sold as a self contained book slightly less than a year ago. There is almost nothing here mechanically valuable.

>>201987

That's a shame. Are the monster creation rules at least good? That's the main thing i'm interested in.

>>201987

S-Share the PDF please, anon?

>>202053

They're the same rules from God Machine Chronicle.

>meme magic is real

>ascension is all about meme magic

>tfw ascension is about real life

Holy shit.

>>202896

>tfw you will never be a banemancer

>>203122

>CIA is a technocrat

It all makes sense.

>>203125

What does that make Bane, then?

>>203357

A pretty big guy.

>>201433

I've got a few, but the most significant is a Ventrue of the 'Architects of the Monolith' bloodline. He's behind the rapid (and prosperous) expansion of the city with lots of breathtaking skyscrapers and other monumental buildings. He genuinely believes that the occult principles behind his architecture are the best thing for the city and all the kindred and kine living there, though is unwittingly playing into the hands of the God Machine (the 'great architect', in his mind), and sooner or later will bring down wrath-of-god-style chaos and destruction with his designs.

>>203364

For

>>203357

>>201987

>>201987

Chronicles of Darkness:

http://gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=a2c8e2c9a5c8f815c1f0948649a22187

http://libgen.io/get_new.php?md5=a2c8e2c9a5c8f815c1f0948649a22187

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_Abn1a6PgUCa19KbjdNcmNMWms/view?pli=1MWms/view?pli=1

>>203366

Why are architects and their malevolent cities so much fun?

I remember some old thread where people discussed what would've happened if the Technocrats didn't purge the Craftmasons back in the day. The result was that all modern cities would be built according to divine architecture and geometry, with pyramids everywhere and buildings placed in such ways to do mystic shit. The layout of the town itself would be a mystic thing, created to maximize efficiency and brainwash you into obeying those above you.

Ever since that thread I've wanted to run something set in such a town. An entire city built to fuck with your head, with mystic architecture everywhere and no chance of escaping.

Maybe combine it with that other idea I had for a Mage city that's an experiment run by a rogue Technocrat/Tradition coalition. Technocrats breed Tradition mages (who're all Manchurian candidates) inside the city and then release them to the outside world to join the other Tradition groups in order to subvert and sabotage them from within. And of course, the Tradition mages that are working alongside the Technocrats have their own agenda and have turned the city into an enormous ritual that might as well end up destroying the world if left unchecked.

Playing a Changeling: The Lost game with a new group.

How do I tell my ST that if I'm roleplaying one interaction with an NPC sometimes dicerolling is detrimental?

I don't want to backseat DM, and otherwise he is a great storyteller, but sometimes I'm feel like that greentext about a general with the flaming sword interrogating a goblin prisoner and botching his roll - that is to say, frustrated. Why go the effort of role playing at all if it'll all be decided by RNG, no matter how I articulate it?

>>204255

Talk with your ST one-on-one. Mention that you consider Changeling (and pretty much all WoD stuff) to be narrative driven rather than dice-driven. Mention your expectations compared to the game, and do not blame him for bad DMing.

>>192928

It works for everything compatible with the Storyteller System… I didn't see much that didn't make it useful even with Aberrant… of course when you can level a city with one roll… well…

>>204255

Introduce him to the Social Manoeuvring rules in GMC, if you can. It took me ages to actually bother reading them, but they're pretty good.

One of the suggestions is that dice-rolling (and the social manoeuvring rules themselves) only becomes involved if you want something from an NPC, and there's plausibly reason for them to be reticent/resistant to giving you what you want. Otherwise, character interaction should be roleplaying- and narrative-based.

>>192958

This is pretty accurate. nWoD improved the whole thing mechanically but the lore turned it into Highlander or some shit.

>roll save vs. hissing like a cat at other vampires

>bullets don't do shit so everyone uses swords now

>>204337

My game has a Gangrel who uses guns, he was a professional hunter when alive. On average he deals more damage than anyone else when the violence starts, because most enemies don't wear armor. Anything that gets too close as he runs low on ammo has been softened up by bullets and is about to start taking aggravated damage.

But the predator's taint rule is weird as hell. Our storyteller generally only does it against sufficiently stronger enemies to give us a warning, or if we run into someone weaker than us. It lets us gauge the relative blood potency of other vampires.

So, disregarding what the mathematically retarded writers said, what's the ACTUAL ratio of vampire population in a given city? Can I have an approximation at least?

>>204572

>disregarding what the mathematically retarded writers said

Some cities will have more than others, so the number will always ultimately be up to the Storyteller. I'm running Vampire (Requiem 2nd Ed) when I get back to uni, and I still haven't figured out how many there should be in our city.

To a certain degree, the sensible thing to tell your players if they persistently try to get an actual number is that 'nobody knows'. I expect that the Invictus would try and make it their business to know (or at least keep track of) how many kindred are running around, but it's probably impossible for them to tell how many are in hiding, keeping a low-profile for whatever other reason, or running with secretive crowds like Belial's Brood (or any 'major' covenant which is unfavourably treated in the domain).

I'll probably have kindred show up when/where I think they should, in whatever numbers make sense for the moment, and leave the 'grand total' ultimately undefined. But then again, I'll have to bite the bullet soon and work out the cold facts about whose territory is where, how they're subdividing it, and so on, which naturally leads to the question of how many bloodsuckers there are ratting around; at least in view of the All-Night Society.

So the short version is "I don't know either".

Come to think of it, does anybody have advice on the best way to work out these sort of things when prepping for Vampire

>>201080

Would you also happen to have the core Demon pdf as well? I tried the 4share one above and it hasn't worked for me.

>>204713

You could have fun with that, though. Nobody knows for sure how many vampires there are out there, not even the vampires themselves.

If, say, the Lancea are the ones in hiding, they can gather in some cathedral, all dressed up as monks with masks on their faces. This includes their ghouls, as well as some dominated whores, junkies and others that will be either eaten, brainwashed to forget, or thrown at their enemies if shit goes down.

So, you have this giant cathedral filled to the brim with hundreds upon hundreds of Lancea vampires. There's no real way of knowing who's a vampire and who isn't. And it freaks your enemies out.

>>204786

Thank you, using that idea when I finally get my friends into an nWoD game

>>204746

https://mega.nz/#!hYpmTLaA!97tkvTCzXCUv9AP1JbEVizXEt3vQDMdUWckmkHwlnEw

>>204786

Good advice. Duly noted.

>>204788

>>204900

Of course, it can go both ways. Stage an event that makes it look like a certain group is way stronger than they really are, in order to push others to scrutinize them more.

To continue with the earlier example, those guys that gathered in the cathedral didn't belong to the Lancea, but to the Circle. But eveyone bought their ruse, and now the Invictus and Ordo Dracul demand to know their actual numbers. Which includes every Lancea member having to present themselves, at the same time, before a council of vampires.

The location of said gathering? The old cathedral, which the Circle rigged to be set on fire. Have fun.

>>204953

Or another axample, for Ascension: is the local steampunk/science expo a gathering place for dozens of Etherites who came to alter the Consensus and exchange ideas?

Or is it a Syndicate ploy to make the masses disregard any magic or scientific breakthrough by the Eterites as "those cogfops" and kill them all en masse through Paradox?

>>204900

Much appreciated, Anon! My group has been dying to play this for awhile now.

>>198659

>but demons are assholes

Well to be fair everyone in WoD is but that's besides the point. My question is why WOULDN'T you stack a Soul pact in the favor of the human? Any other pact I can understand since you don't want to be TOO generous or otherwise the human starts running his mouth off to his friends, neighbors, coworkers, pets, etc about how this one old lady will totally make them the greatest human alive for the low price of a hotpocket. It's essentially asking for the God-Machine and his Angels to fuck you up the ass.

Soul pacts on the other hand are different. Very few people would be willing to give up their entire bodies and souls even for all the material wealth in the world. On top of that few people would even talk about it to others because telling them about how you became the richest man on earth by giving an old lady your soul probably sounds insane. And if they do start running their mouths about it there's nothing stopping you from collecting on your side of the bargain a little earlier than expected.

>>206584

Update: Minus seems to be dead, links are still getting broken. Will be slowly (very slowly) uploading stuff to booru

So Lore of the Clans is out-anyone seen it? Is it full of shit or is it a decent reduction of 13 clanbooks into 1?

>>206943

I have a collection of both. Some anon shared these a long time ago. I think some of the old ones are missing though, but that's all I have. The resolution on some of them is also garbage

http://www.4shared.com/zip/r07BulLBba/Character_Examples.html

>>206945

Seen it, nothing special, believe me http://www.4shared.com/office/phNn0-Gtba/LoreofClans.html

>>207025

Not the same anon but to be honest it's exactly what I expected. It's near damn impossible to fit all the splat information of SEVERAL clans into a single book but hey at least it's there I guess. It's a shame that they didn't go the extra mile and released it into multiple books but I can't honestly complain: we get these books through the shekels donated to them and money makes the world go round. At the very least it's decent and of slight convenience to have but otherwise it's not necessary. Solid 6-10, 7-10 on a good day.

>>194750

oWoD's gamelines were never originally intended to work in the context of the same cosmology, they all operate on completely different, contradictory assumptions on how the cosmology and metaphysics of the world works and how the other splats work.

Vampires in the Werewolf game are Wyrm-tainted fuckheads who all need to die.

Vampires in Vampire are humans who carry the curse of Canine, passed down from God.

God doesn't even exist in Werewolf (But does in Demon) – instead having the supreme deities as a Hindu-style creator-preserver-destroyer trinity.

Lupines in Vampire are not the Garou from Werewolf.

Latter published books provide options on how you could run cross-overs and the narrative implications and consequences of this.

In Mage, all of existence is dependent on human belief.

In Vampire and Werewolf, humanity is basically irrelevant – except for the possibility of hunters in Vampire, or the fact that environmental and spiritual damage is killing the planet, and that's mostly due to a global supercorporation that worships the Wyrm (which has a Vampire on its Board of Directors, because in Werewolf, Vampires are basically Wyrm-claimed, remember?).

In Mage, the Consensus is always a thing, and whoever is in charge is always going to define the rules of reality.

In Werewolf, the Technocracy would only exist in the cross-over in the Weaver books, imposing stasis on reality, if they were infiltrated by the Weaver's influence.

And that's not even getting into Changeling and their Banality shit.

>>194771

>Nigger it takes believing in yourself that makes it dark; if you believe you're a worthless piece of shit, you die.

https://youtu.be/QZMZX4WZD8E?t=647

EDWARDS

Oh no…

Angelique walks into the Pen – and the Siamese-Twin follows.

Edwards looks from them down to the Box in his hand.

EDWARDS

He… he told me what to do.

Angelique's face creases in contemplation as she looks at the man. She thinks she's got his number.

ANGELIQUE

Please. Go ahead. If you think it will do any good.

Edwards runs his fingers listlessly over the Box. He presses at it a few times as if looking for hidden buttons. Nothing. His arms drop hopelessly and he starts to sob.

EDWARDS

It's… a box. It's just a box.

He lifts it and flings it half-heartedly at Angelique.

Her hand rises and catches it expertly.

ANGELIQUE

Thank God for men of reason. (to the Siamese-Twin) Finish it.

>>207146

>>207025

>>207146

Seen worse but honestly, nothing new in here-you'd be as well looking up the wiki.

How obviously supernatural is a vampire's Frenzy? Do they just look like niggas on PCP, or is it harder to explain away because they're obviously inhuman while raging?

>>208773

I suppose it would depend. A Gangrel flipping his shit might pop the claws & eyes leading to a definite Masquerade breach. If the fangs are flashed anywhere bar a Goth night club it'd attract questions. But if it's 'quiet' Frenzy i.e like certain Mekhet have it might just look like a damn psycho is tearing shit up.

What does the average vampire Prince and his subordinates do when, for example, the homeless population inexplicably starts going berserk and attacking at random like rabid dogs a la Condemned?

>>209306

They'd probably want to know what's causing it and stopping it, a lot of vampires use homeless for easy blood.

>>209387

Not that they'd ever admit they munch on hobos. It'd be like admitting you eat from the trash.

>>209764

It's not as bad as admitting you're a rat-sucker.

>>209837

>It's not as bad as admitting you're a rat-sucker

>Not drinking from only the finest Indonesian pure bred hairless albino rats

>Being this plebeian

I did not know I shared a city with such uncultured swine!

>>209843

>being able to feed on rats

>being this much of an overcompensating fledgeling

sneeringelders.png

>>209843

>feeding from creatures lower than humans

>being capable of ingesting their blood

Someone has low blood potency.

>>209843

>>210219

>>210221

>feeding on blood

>not on dreams and whimsy

As my utterly unknown and alien Keeper used to say, AYY LMAO

>>210618

Hope this works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVcPUUQZ2hQ&list=PL8697D9765902E78D

What splat would make the best getaway driver character?

>>210962

Demon with that exploit that lets him merge with a car.

Or maybe a time wizard.

>>210966

Yeah, those two are the most obvious choices. Mages can fuck around with time, space and luck (and if you play an Etherite, you can make the DeLorean from Back to the Future), and nDemons can merge with cars (oDemons can make the cars themselves demonic, and turn anything into a path, including a crack in the wall).

What about the other supernaturals? Changelings could probably be amazing as reckless drivers (or you can just pull off a Ghost Rider). Werewolves could mess with the Spirits of the vehicles. Vampires… no idea. Thaumaturgy? Blood-fueled cars?

>>210962

If you don't mind fan lines, Geniuses can make stupid fast cars. or planes, or flying death forts, or just make a fucking teleporter.

>>210899

Thanks for the effort, but I'll hold out hope for a download, or seeded torrent.

I, unfortunately, don't have access to an internet connection when I'm running my games.

>>211124

You can use youtube to mp3 sites, and then download all the songs that way.

>>211064

>Vampires… no idea.

Auspex + Celerity. Now you have a driver that drifts in bullet time, reacting faster than the other guys can act. He notices the cars following him, does a U-turn and loses then behind a semi in the time it takes the other guys to stick shift.

>>211207

Was thinking about something more flashy (like playing a Lasombra and cloaking the car in shadows) but yeah, that works too.

>>211064

>Changelings

You want a Wizened driver. He'll do some crazy-ass shit that will make MacGyver turn green with envy. Though if you're a gambling type and he's crazy enough, you can tell him to open a portal into the Hedge so you can give your pursuers the slip and emerge on the other side of town.

>>211064

Blood fueled cars are silly, there are only about 1100 calories in a gallon of blood, but 30,000 in gasoline. At best you'd get something like 2 or 3 miles per gallon, and that's assuming that you could find a way to burn blood in a similar manner. Just use a tzimisce to make a fleshcrafted car that runs on methane or hydrogen, then bolt some metal plating and wheels on to preserve the masquerade. Think about it, best car ever: assuming you train it right (or just design it to work solely off of mechanical principles), it can be made to only drive for you, to drive without a pilot, to spot people following you via rear view eyes.

Come to think of it, through proper use of silicon and some bioelectrics, could a tzimisce make a biological computer capable of interfacing with mechanical ones?

>>212751

I don't think Tzimisce appreciate cars. They're more traditional types.

A chariot and horses made from people, that's more like it. Or, if you're good enough at what you do, create your own flying monstrosity designed with the ability to breathe fire and spill acid blood.

If Absimilard can ride a kaiju, so can you.

Hey I'm thinking of maybe going through the Black Furies books to sort of maybe have a laugh at 90s conceptions of radfems compared to today's reality. I thought it might be interesting considering how cucked and SJW their latest works like Beast the Primoridal are.

What do you guys think?

>>212976

Why don't you invest the time you would waste doing that shit into reading good books and maybe drawing up some cool chronicle concepts?

>>212751

Theoretically, although it would probably take elder bullshit vicissitude powers to do so.

One of the chronicles I'm playing in has a tzimisce methuselah that we taught how to use computers (partly to keep him from getting bored), and he eventually did what you described, and a lot of other things.

>>213221

Uh you know what, you have a good point. Fuck it. I concentrate too much on negative shit.

>>213276

Why are Tzimisce so much fun.

>>213759

Because they are the best clan, no exceptions.

You know, do high levels of radiation count as fire/aggro damage, or could a vamp operate an unshielded nuclear reactor unhindered?

>>214106

>could a vamp operate an unshielded nuclear reactor unhindered?

I'd allow it.

>>214106

The main threat of ionising radiation is that it inhibits the ability of your cells to divide properly (or, at very high levels, the ability of your cells to do most of the things that keep you alive).

Vampires aren't alive, so their cells wouldn't divide the same way we'd expect a living human's to do. I'd say that probably leaves you in the clear, but actually, it depends on what effect we think radiation would have on vitae. However, given that vitae is just a garbled mish-mash of different victims' DNA already (with a bit of mystical je ne sais quoi), I'd say that the effects of the interaction are probably not significant enough to worry about.

I wouldn't rule out the possibility of the vampire actually being a vector for harmful radiation for a short time after leaving the reactor, but that's up to your storyteller. It's more of a promethean thing, anyway.

>>214106

IIRC, radiation does aggravated damage anyway. It's in one of the Promethean books, the one that details the nuclear-powered Promethean Lineage.

>>214209

Using game mechanics, yeah, Vampires should get the full blast of Agg damage from Radiation. I think that they wouldn't need to worry about the long-term carcinogenic effects of radiation unless they spent a Blood Point to update their bodies after being exposed, otherwise it'll just get reverted after a day the same way that tattoos, piercings, and body hair gets reverted after a day unless you spend a Blood Point to update them.

>>214106

IIRC, the Promethean book has the details how radiation hits every other critter.

Radiation has an Intensity rating (1-5) and Damage rating (basically extra damage you take). Intensity 1 is bashing, Intensity 2 is lethal, and so on. At Intensity 5 you can get up to 22 extra damage rating, which means that you're so fucked, it's not even funny.

Anyway, vampires take half the damage (because radiation is partially related to the Sun) and they absorb the other half. They're less flesh, more ash fueled by blood and spite - so that's why they're only relatively less fucked than other supernaturals. However, the radiation poisons their Vitae. If they use the irradiated Vitae to channel some external discipline, nothing happens. If they use the irradiated Vitae to give themselves super toughness or speed, they take some damage per Vitae spent.

And as long as you have even an ounce of irradiated Vitae in you, you're considered radioactive and people should stay away from you.

Yeah, the thing i was thinking about is that imaginably you should start to heat up just because the human/vamp body is a good radiator, but not THAT good, so even though you won't get dna damage (the vamp body will fix it daily to pristine condition), you're doomed to burst into flames. Additionally, their bodies still function off of mechanical principles, just ones that seem esoteric to us, so imaginably they should be able to be knocked unconscious from overheating of the brain.

Oh damn, a microwave gun would be fucking excellent, just melt a vamps head through the walls, set it to a wide beam and reduced power and boil the water in one's body for crowd control.

>>214367

IIRC, temperature extremes don't impede vampires in any meaningful capacity most of the time, only direct exposure to fire counts.

Useful inspiration for a Hunter game? It seems like a good demonstration of what'd it be like for a bunch of regular humans to go werewolf hunting.

>>215280

Besides dealing damage, I think it's up to the ST.

>>215283

>jewtube cancer

kill you are self

>>215283

Nah, what you need is this.

>>216310

Combine it with this, for some good werewolf on slasher action.

You are the light bringer. You shine like a falling star and your beauty overwhelms everyone around you. And yet, like a mirror in a dark room you lack a soul and light of your own. You are a SNOWFLAKE and in SNOWFLAKE, THE SPARKLING.

Stories live. They are born, they grow and then eventually they die. But for every story born into the mind of mankind there are ten more that never make it to term. Whether its a story thats too similar to existing tales to make its mark or a story that just doesn't interest people these stories never manage to spread far beyond the head of the person that created them. Untold and undreamt of, these stories collect down at the bottom of the noosphere until they coalesce into hard crystals of drudgery that are too boring and heavy for the noosphere to sustain. And so, these crystal SNOWFLAKES fall through the realms onto the earth and take on mortal form. Bereft of their own LIGHT these SNOWFLAKES must make a desparate struggle to parasitize humanity and buoy themselves up or sink into the lower realms and die forever.

>>216354

Dr. Itz Dordon, a gay black 30 year old fresh out of college, has forsaken the inner city slums and the evil ways of his people to fight the good fight against evil denizens of the supernatural world. Dr. Itz Dordon was first alerted to the threat of the supernatural when he noticed an unusual upspike in strange bitemarks and AIDs cases at a local clinic he volunteered at. Pulling together a ragtag team of vigilante clinic workers he tracked down and shot the vampire responsible for transmitting AIDs through bites. Dr. Itz Dordon's work was noticed by the a local extremist hunters group who press-ganged him into their organization. Now Dr. Itz Dordon lives a double life; half-doctor, half-hunter and half-SNOWFLAKE; desparately fighting for his survival and the survival of humanity and to hide his secret lives from each other.

Beautiful, a real masterpiece work. Nobody appreciates the deep, gritty writers like us. Fuck, nobody GETS us, or the goth lifestyle.

>>216407

Shitposting.

To get this thread back on track, how do you keep your fight scenes interesting?

>>216947

Low yield tactical nuclear weapons

>>216947

Lots of fire.

There's nothing like a helicopter crashing into the Prince's penthouse suite on the 11th floor, in the middle of a meeting, and then every Primogen going apeshit as Frenzy kicks in because there's fire everywhere.

>>217003

Nah, the coterie ain't dealing with the prince. Right now they're contending with white-suited Mafiya thugs and their gopnik foot soldiers, and the ocassional bix nood gangsta.

>>217018

Hotline Miami in WoD? Noice.

I've wanted to do something similar with Sleeping Dogs. Hong Kong, horrible shit going on in the night, a team of Hunters trying to deal with the Triads who might have something unnatural working alongside them, and the best way to deal with it is to wreck its fucking face with a car door.

>>217024

>Hotline Miami in WoD?

Sort of. There's a few references here and there. The setting is a decent if crime-ridden city in Michigan. I'm borrowing more material from Manhunt, The Wire and Condemned.

Would anyone mind helping me with something?

>>217141

Depends, you'll have to specify, fool.

>>217141

Okay, now I'm interested,

Tell us about the game, and what you need help with.

>>217141

two days and no response, confirmed dead by commie russian mob assassins.

>>213759

Because they cater to every possible kind of creepy fetishist. Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

What's your excuse for not having a gargoyle watching your haven?

>>221201

Maybe this spiritual wound manifested as a Wyrm's Nest, which would make the territory an interesting target for the Ordo Dracul.

Also, why is Nosferatu blood so infectious in V:tR? There's at least two bloodlines from other clans infected by the Nosferatu curse and a particular vampire whose blood is somehow both Mekhet and Nossy.

>>222912

>Also, why is Nosferatu blood so infectious in V:tR?

Nossies are the best, that's why. Everyone loves the Nossies.

They make for the best waifus.

For the sake of interest - would humanity actually stand a chance against the vampires if the masquerade was to be broken - I mean, humans naturally would have strength in numbers, but with so many vampires taking key positions in human society, I wonder if the humans could actually form any sort of viable defense or counterrreaction, doubly so if all vampires go full sabbat and also get the Methusalehs on their side.

>>223047

I like the concept for Ruins of Ur.

The PCs explore a temple buried near the ancient city of Ur. As they explore and deal with the hazards within, the seals holding back an ancient vampire priest break.

>>223514

I think they would, but I think it depends how much the wanky ancient vampires get involved. Humans can operate 24 hours for every 12 the vampires can, and vampires have some major weaknesses if humanity can get its shit together and spread knowledge of those weaknesses. I mean, it's going to go horribly either way, but I think humanity might come out on top.

How would you go about explaining some of the more esoteric/weird splats (Promethean/Geist/Changeling/Demon) to new players?

>>223720

Promethean: You are frankenstein's monster. You want to become a real boy because everyone hates you because you are subtly WRONG. Good fucking luck.

Geist: Bad news: You died. Good news: You came back to life because of an ancient ghost. Bad news: The ghost is now riding along in the back of your head and it desires may conflict with your own.

Changeling: You got yoinked by fairies who did horrible things to you and turned you into some kind of freak. Now you're free but they will never ever stop trying to drag you back. There is safety in numbers

Demon: It's basically the matrix and you're a rogue agent.

>>210962

One that hasn't been mentioned and that I've always wanted to play (but was always a stupid gimmick) would be a Sin-Eater.

Call it a Sin-Eater with the Pyre-Flame and Industrial Thresholds. Plenty of different Manifestations would work. Cars were invented more than 100 years ago, so you get a +3 on all your Industrial rolls.

Industrial Caul 4+ lets the Sin-Eater merge with the car and get bonuses to any driving rolls (and Pyre-Flame Caul is pretty decent support for boosting initiative and providing plasm). The Industrial Curse basically sabotages any pursuing cars, as does Pyre-Flame. Industrial Marionette lets you control cars remotely. Industrial Oracle could give you a bonus operating your car. The Pyre-Flame and Industrial Rages both work for destroying other pursuers or their cars. Industrial and Pyre-Flame Shroud are just kinda useful.

But those aren't the coolest things, they're all just useful additions. The really cool thing involves the Geist's Keystone. Each Geist has an object (probably one involved in their death) that can be up to size 12 (so big enough for a "2-seat sports car"), which gives some bonuses to Manifesting powers, as well as to a single roll. But then you've got my absolute favourite thing. The Keystone is generally kept in Twilight, but can be withdrawn into reality by the Sn-Eater, but is completely ephemeral to everyone except the Sin-Eater, who can interact with it as normal (it can be seen, heard and smelled by everyone).

So you've got a ghost-car that is completely ephemeral for all purposes except the Sin-Eater riding around in it. Thus they could drive through objects (so long as the sin-Eater passed through an empty space). If the driver needs to take a passenger, they can make the ghost-car actually solid for a scene.

The ghost-car can never be lost, stolen or permanently destroyed. If it is destroyed, it just returns to Twilight for a scene, and after that it can be pulled right back out.

Which all adds up to a cool-as-fuck getaway driver.

Can I get a rundown on the good, the bad, and the ugly of the God Machine Chronicles update?

Is it worth learning, or should I just stick with the original rules?

>>223744

The good - slightly cleaned up mechanics, beats are a different way to handle experience which most players seem to prefer, and a lot of underexplained aspects are given a few pages to flesh out how to go about dealing with them.

The bad - everything else

The ugly - machine god is shit. just shit.

>>221201

If you want to just keep it at Vampires fucking around, the Russians could be manipulated by the VII. All the Russian mobsters were Dominated into attacking the vampires by something that's far more ancient than all the local vampires put together. Not only were they dominated into suicide runs, they were imparted knowledge of how to wield weapons and fight - maybe there's even a small-scale hive-mind going on, telling them how to act and fight.

If you want to go really scary, the mobsters are all out of town. That something that's after the vampires is not only capable of mind-wiping people and turning them into puppets, it's also capable of bringing people all the way from Russia to appear in front of your Elysium overnight. If the players went ahead and tried to ID the attackers, they'll find that they were reported missing 5 hours ago… in Ukraine.

So not only are you dealing with something that's capable of creating human swarms through insanely strong Domination, it's also capable of Obfuscating human trafficking on a global scale. You're basically dealing with a lesser Malkav here. Be afraid.

>>224167

> If the players went ahead and tried to ID the attackers, they'll find that they were reported missing 5 hours ago… in Ukraine.

Isn't that how the Mafiya actually operates?

>>224229

I don't think they kidnap people in the middle of the night and then brainwash them into hunting vampires on the other side of the world.

These guys had their entire personalities wiped clean. They're convinced they've always lived there, that they've always fought vampires in the name of whatever (maybe the Cross - which would create some tension with the Sanctum; or something else entirely), and that they'll gladly lay down their life for the cause. They don't remember that three hours ago, they were in Kiev, taking their kids to school and feeling so proud of them.

>>223514

>>224298

You know, I think that mankind would stand less of a chance, but not for the most obvious reasons. You see, most people have been and tend to be very docile and apathetic to life, caring only about their basic needs and wants. Ordinarily, this merely leads to those who think and act on a higher level to become what you could call superior humans. But in the WoD, many of the world's greatest minds and bodies will end up becoming becoming entirely superior beings. And just consider the rates of vampirism among the intelligent and skillful, it's very literally the prerequisite to be sired for most vamps.

What i'm getting at here is, the people who would have merely become "better" humans were already generally able to manipulate people, or at least exert their will vastly more than others. In becoming vampires, less of the most skilled fighters, tacticians, diplomats, and thinkers will be human, and more come to be vampire. Though life expectancy may be low for some of these groups, as vampires still die easily, just less so than most people, there's also always more siring going on.

So there would probably be some resistance to the vampires should the masquerade be irrevocably breached, but with most of the world under their grasp already, and most of those few who would have been able to fight them either vampirized or allied with them, the world may be able to riot for a time, but little organized uprising would occur.

On a side note, considering their control over media and most businesses (specifically those that run the most popular news websites, such as youtube), I wonder how bad even a reveal in front of millions of onlookers would be. It could be painted as a hoax or a stunt with great ease, and even if there was plenty of death and tangible destruction, just think about 9/11. In the end, what most people knew was that there was a plane crash or explosion at the wtc, and then another, and the rest they were told, be it by the government or by other people.

Still, suppose everything goes terribly, and their existence is completely revealed with its entirely scope. Well, vampires ARE immortal, while the memory of a people as a whole is limited to those living and recently living generations. Allow many unimportant vampires to die publically, enough so that it seems that they've been rooted out of the cities, and simply hide away in the countryside and small towns for a few centuries. The most important vamps used ghouls and lesser vamps to do their bidding anyway. If anything, they might become more powerful than before due to being able to infiltrate all of the new governments/societies from their conception with ghouls, and the sense of a threat from the vampires will always be vastly lower as people will figure that they've already taken care of an entire world of vamps (possibly to the point of eradication).

>>224375

So vampires = jews?

>>224455

Nah, that's the Technocracy.

>>224455

Let's see…

Parasites? Check

Nepotistic? Check

Disproportionately powerful relative to the population at large? Check

I think we know the answer here.

>>224455

Oy vei goyim remember the six million vampires killed by the inquisition

>>193966

That actually sounds interesting.

>>194253

What's the story context behind this image? Or is it just artwork with no background?

Which of the splats would be easiest to introduce new players to? New as in never played an RPG ever before.

I might be running a game in a couple of weeks, thinking of running one of those demos that are available for the various splats (ex: Gloria Mundi for Mage: the Awakening).

Preferably something that has relatively simple rules for players, and is relatively easy to explain lore-wise. Demon, for example, is really out-there, but something like Hunter is pretty easy to explain/understand.

>>224601

It's from the Malkavian clanbook (for Dark Ages, I think?). It shows how Malkavians are "insane" but instead it makes them look wacky and fun.

That guy kissing the fish gave rise to the name Fishmalk for the type of Malkavian that's all about being LOLSORANDUMBXD and annoying. You know, garbage players who want to be Malks simply so they get to be funny and run around Elysium in slippers, slapping the Prince in the face with a rubber chicken.

>>224619

>That guy kissing the fish gave rise to the name Fishmalk

I knew that already. I was just wondering if there was any context to the image. Guess not.

>>224611

>Demon, for example, is really out-there, but something like Hunter is pretty easy to explain/understand.

If anything, Hunter (with its tactics, and risking willpower, and range of optional rules) probably has only slightly fewer unique mechanics than Demon does. Demon powers, on the whole, are pretty straight-forward. Demonic forms and pacts are slightly more complex, but still not really all that out-there.

Anyway, your easiest option is to just run a game of mortals using whichever version of the core book you have (the most recent would be 'Chronicles of Darkness', since they've gone a bit bonkers with re-releasing existing material in the last few years). You've got plenty of freedom there, as well as the God Machine Chronicle material to call on, or splats like Innocents for running games with different and interesting premises. Fish around.

If you're looking for a monster splat, Vampire is probably as straight-forward as you'll be able to get, since everybody has a pretty intuitive understanding of what vampires are (and where common myth contradicts the game's 'reality' is where the atmosphere and drama sets in). Aside from that, yes, Hunter is a good option, and is probably the closest thing to 'ground zero' for being introduced to the splat-side of WoD.

It bears mentioning, though, that in any WoD game, 'easy to explain lore' is a non-issue. By default, your characters know pretty much jack-shit about the World of Darkness, except for what they've been told by their mentors (which is probably very little), and what they may have already discovered for themselves before the beginning of the chronicle.

>>224957

>>224682

Except of course for the fact that believing hard enough into one of the common myths in your first nights actually might afflict you with that weakness for eternity.

I was wondering about Bloodlines and new Disciplines.

Supposedly, creating that sort of stuff is nigh-impossible (speaking cWoD, I know it's common and decently defined in the nWoD), but the World is chock-full of Bloodlines with their rare Disciplines, and there is about half a dozen different types of Blood-Magic and at least one Non-Bloodmagic Discipline that has no Clan attached at all (Bardo), so it clearly IS possible.

But how would a Vampire even go about leaving his own unique Mark on the Blood on purpose, but from an ingame-perspective and from the players PoV?

>>224995

There are three (maybe there are more, but these three are documented) ways of making your own bloodline:

1) Extensive arcane rituals or influence by something stronger.

Look at the Kiasyd, the Blood Brothers and their like. A couple of vampires decided to modify themselves through extensive arcane rituals, eating fae and only fae, or by being the unholy union of Tremere blood magic and Tzimisce fleshcrafting. This results in a vampire that's so different from the main bloodline, that every vampire descending from him ends up inheriting his traits.

2) Divergent evolution.

Take a look at the African vampires. They simply evolved from the same "protovampire", but because they unlived in different conditions, they became something entirely different from the main clan.

3) Eating an antediluvian.

The "False" Brujah, the Tremere, the Giovanni. They ate one incredibly ancient vampire, which resulted in them separating from the main bloodline (in the case of Brujah and the Giovanni, even becoming the main bloodline) and becoming something else entirely.

I doubt you have the time for the 2nd option during a reasonably-long campaign, which leads you to either try and conduct a magical rite that will grant you unique powers and siring your own clan, or you'll go out and eat Caine. Either way, if you set the game before Gehenna, you probably don't have enough time to do it.

>>224997

Speaking of eating antediluvians, how the hell does the Withering work?

>>225202

The tl;dr version is that higher level disciplines just stop working. You can spend the blood needed to activate it, but it won't do shit. You can't regenerate. Nossies begin to look more human, Gangrel lose animal features, stuff like that.

The Curse of Caine gets weaker. Which means that, eventually, everyone will turn into a mortal human - if they don't eat other vampires. And even then it's only a temporary solution, as eating a Neonate will result in you being capable of using a discipline for only one night.

Basically, vampires lose their powers for some reason (hint: God wants them gone for good). So every vampire either has to hide away and learn to be human again (which many can't) or they'll have to eat each other until they're all gone.

>>224997

Why is oWoD lore so much better than nWoD?

Speaking of consciousness shaped reality, are portrayals of fairies being friendly little sluts like Tinkerbell meant to be an attempt by corporations to make people perceive fae as being friendly and good-natured and thus actually MAKE them friendly and good-natured?

>>192954

I would think the Hunters would find them very useful.

Looking for oWoD backgrounds. Mage 20 has a decent amount, but Vampire 20 has fuck all. Any more stuff I can use in other oWoD books, 20 or otherwise?

>>225254

Its objectively not. The crux is there are a lot of cWoD players who have the feels about cWoD because it was their first game, in the same way that there are those players who support 3.5 D&D because it was their first game. Fondness makes the heart go dumber.

Yes, there's some hipster garbage in nWoD making it hard to use, but following current gaming trends the kernel based structure of nWoD makes that stuff easy to ignore, while in cWoD you cannot escape THUH METAPLOX!

Been thinking about a Tzimisce Koldun in the Dark Ages, but not sure what to do about the disconnect between the Old System and the Kraina System from Dark Ages 20.

On one hand, it seems mildly wrong to learn multiple Krainas due to how they directly relate to your homeland, and there's too few of them to make a dedicated Blood Magican, on the other hand it seems thematically inappropriate AND provides too much overlap all over the place to just put the Krainas and the old Elemental Paths together.

>>225438

Spoken like a true Edition-warring faggot who needs to feel superior about his choice.

Why do you think nWoD is already taking a backseat again, with the classic one being kickstarter'd like no tomorrow and even reclaiming the name?

Because there is no OBJECTIVELY better one but oldfags DO have the feels about cWoD.

Also, "THUH METAPLOX" was already a shit argument that was at least as overdone as "I can't nMage because THUH ATLONTIS" years ago.

>>225400

Backgrounds as in the Stat you, depending on system have around five points worth of? Can probably dig a few up for you, if that's what you mean.

>>225443

(Addendum:

I also wonder if it's even thematically appropriate for a Koldun under the new style of paths to develop anything of his own that ISN'T directly relating to a country he lived in)

>>225443

cWoD isn't "reclaiming its name", the companies buying WoD like an extended game of hot potato don't give two fucks about tabletop, they just want the license so they can either make an MMO (that failed pretty spectacularly) or a Bloodlines 2.

The push for cWoD is pandering to thirty year old man children who will shill out for cWoD content (them feels again), while willfully ignoring the mechanical improvements and more flexible setting in the nWoD.

Moving backward is never an improvement.

>>225443

>with the classic one being kickstarter'd like no tomorrow

Kickstarter is for stupid people, if the oWoD has more campaigns than the nWoD then the oWoD fans clearly enjoy being fleeced

>even reclaiming the name?

After being bought by Paradox. Enjoy your DLC and the game being balanced based solely on how the retards at the office play it.

>>225458

>

>>225456

It's all irrelevant, you're just showcasing that you spend way too much emotion hating a game.

I stated this things as neutral facts, not positive arguments, idiot.

Now kindly make space for those who actually want to discuss either line of games.

>>225461

>I stated this things as neutral facts, not positive arguments

Average cWoD fan, ladies and gents.

>>224994

>Except of course for the fact that believing hard enough into one of the common myths in your first nights actually might afflict you with that weakness for eternity.

There's also Banes.

>>225655

Average example of dude who goes in white-hot-rages over taste in games.

Look at my statements again without the emotional coloring.

Thanks for the derailment though, it really shows how much you truly care about discussions and enjoyment and how it drowned out the initial post really helped me to get it answered. You da real MVP

How much work is it to update NPCs to God-Machine rules?

>>226212

That depends on the game you're using and how supported it is in this 2nd Edition.

If its a mortal or hunter the template goes through very few changes, virtue and vice change function and can be re-tooled, merits might change effect or dots required, but overall less express changes to mechanics outside of combat.

For Requiem to Strix the more baseline the NPC is the easier the conversion. Bloodline abilities, devotions, and other whackiness will need some industrial adjustment, especially with the inclusion of conditions. Some merits are new or heavily altered, others are nonexistent, so expect some construction.

Forsaken 2nd is a whole other barrel of fish. Theoretically it could be converted with some hard work, much like Requiem, but the Idigam Chronicle is so different that it might be best to just make the NPC's from scratch and then improve them like PC's if they're a PC template.

anyone ever ran a princess: the hopeful game? im probably running it for some friends in the short while, it seems good.

>>226480

>it seems good.

It doesn't. The premise and intent clashes with that of WOD.

>>226480

I find it similar to Maid. My room mate is playing Maid right now and despite it being a "pick up and play" game with a ridiculously weeb premise all I ever hear them talking about is how dark and tragic they made everything while patting themselves on the back. Princess falls right into the realm of what I call "World of Dim", where nothing bad ever happens and no one is meaningfully challenged, but "oooh we're playing a World of Darkness game with pretty princesses. We're so Madoka Magica."

>>226517

>World of Dim

That's a good term. I'm adding it to my regular lexicon.

>>226517

I came up with it to differentiate from a World of Darkness game where bad things happen and a World of GrimDark game where bad things happen all the time every time that are extreme. World of Dim can thus be defined as any non-parody horror setting that has all the trappings of a horror experience, but entirely lacks the acuity of horror in game play.

Wanted to ask a crunch-related question for V20, if anyone has experience with it.

Normally, additional successes gained on a Trait roll

simply mean that you do exceptionally well. In combat,

each extra success you get on an attack roll equals

an additional die you add automatically to your damage

dice pool.

Would you guys rule that to include firearms as well, or just keep those weapons to their own dicepools as listed?

Thanks in advance.

pls post

>>227126

From a logical standpoint, I'd argue that you can hit exceptionally well with a gun just as much as with a knife.

However, I think it MIGHT upset the balance. Don't have stats readily available.

Probably still okay with most of your conflicts are Vampire-on-vampire, what with their firearm resistance.

>>227160

I feel the same way, shooting vital organs and such. However, seeing things like shotguns with a base damage pool of eight being modified even higher seems a bit much to me.

However, I do realize it's probably made that way to be much more dangerous, but having such a huge potential for damage is a bit weird for me, I guess.

Thanks for the input.

>>227216

>shooting vital organs

Vampires don't have vital organs, m8.

>>227255

Under the crunch, you can aim for things like hearts and the like for extra damage.

Mostly what I meant by that.

Random thought:

We know you can't really force an Awakening in Mage unless you are one hell of an Archmaster of Prime (oWoD) or are willing to risk your target burning out and turning into a magical virus.

So basically, you need to be godlike, and can still fail.

But could a place showered in obscene amounts of your favorite type of energy, Ressonance and whatever else you can think of at least increase the chance of its inhabitants with a fitting culture awakening… assuming you manage to get it all set up and keep it running?

Why or why not?

>>227255

Hence bullets harming them less. They still have weakpoints.

In fact, doing the right things to a Vampires heart can ruin their day. Aside from staking and the like, I think I read about some Discipline or Maneuver or some shit that results in the heart pierced so badly, the Vampire immediatly loses half his Bloodpool.

>>227707

You would increase the tendency of those capable of Awakening into being a mage fitting that resonance most likely but the thing with nWoDis that it has a nasty habit of causing chain reactions when it comes to that sort of thing so every [insert Resonant being here] would increase in number which would in turn increase the number of things that live in the shadows of those beings and so on and so forth. And you'd piss off the respective cosmology that oversees and dominates things within that resonance to boot, which isn't wise thanks to the Pax Arcanum. You'd have to do a trade.

>>227797

>You'd have to do a trade.

This is the worst part. Do remember that the Exarchs take kikery to a whole new level. A cosmic level, if you will.

>>227707

You can kinda force Awakening onto others, but instead of fucking with Prime, you use Entropy/Fate. You force them into situations where the only available options are either become a Mage or die.

You know how an Archmaster of Entropy can kill ideas (and it's hinted that's why necromancy went from being a tool to communicate with the dead into its current morbid and evil version)? Yeah, an Archmaster of Entropy can also slowly bring forth the Apocalypse so that:

1) Only a few people survive, drastically weakening the Consensus;

2) Forces those few people to Awaken in order to prosper.

Hell, you could start your own End Times scenario with something like that. WWIII immediately goes nuclear and the survivors start Awakening at an alarming rate. Technocracy tries to keep up with the sudden change, and are failing. The Traditions see this as a chance to take over again. The Nephandi laugh their ass off, as finally they're at the top (>implying they haven't been there all the time).

>>227848

> but instead of fucking with Prime

Merely pointing out that it is, in the old setting, an ability for Prime… 7, I think, according to Masters of the Art.

Of course, it's of doubtable value as Spheres above 5 are almost always strongly vulgar, require a shitton of success, and all you get for that high price is an inexperienced, powerless mage who your GM might as well rule starts with a permanent Point or two of 'dox for his unnatural state.

Kinda like the rest of your post, though.

Might make that the plot of a misguided villain one day.

>"Sure it's terrible, but imagine what glories it will lead to once awakened humanity in a world where the consensus is malleable again has rebuilt and repopulated!"

>>227889

Come to think of it, there's a group of Marauders that have the same agenda as that. Killing a couple billion people so that everyone awakens and magic returns.

Luckily for everyone, they're not Archmaster tier. And they're Marauders, trying to get them organized is an effort in futility.